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US Presswire photo Livan Hernandez is free to sign with another team beginning Thursday. |
Unlike the NFL, the NBA and NHL, there typically isn't a mad rush of signings the moment free agency begins. Truth be told, the market really won't start heating up until the days leading into the Dec. 5-8 winter meetings in Dallas.
So there's time for teams to contemplate which, if any, of their departing free agents they might want to attempt to re-sign. And there's time for those players to gauge how much interest there is from other clubs before deciding whether to return to their 2011 homes.
The Nationals do face some interesting decisions among their eight players who became free agents yesterday: right-handers Chien-Ming Wang, Livan Hernandez and Todd Coffey, catcher Ivan Rodriguez, infielder Alex Cora and outfielders Rick Ankiel, Laynce Nix and Jonny Gomes.
Out of the entire group, Wang is most likely to return to Washington. The Taiwanese right-hander has been in discussions on a new contract for weeks, and though general manager Mike Rizzo indicated Wednesday the two sides weren't yet close to a deal, it still appears likely Wang will be back.
The others present varied dilemmas.
The Nationals love the presence Hernandez, Rodriguez and Cora bring to the clubhouse, but there simply may not be roster space anymore for a trio of veterans whose on-field production has waned.
Coffey enjoyed a nice season out of the bullpen. But again, this appears to be a position of strength and depth for the Nationals, who may not feel the need to re-sign the big right-hander (who made $1.35 million this year).
The three outfielders, I believe, present the most intriguing questions. Ankiel, Nix and Gomes all contributed in various ways this season. All three were well-liked in the clubhouse. And any one of the three could seemingly contribute to a Nationals squad that believes it can ascend to contender status in 2012. But there's no way there's room for all of them, and there probably isn't even room for two of the three.
What do you think? Which, if any, of the Nationals' eight free agents would you bring back next season?
51 comments:
For my money, Wang, Coffey and Ankiel would be back.If we could trade Jesus Flores for a decent return value, I would maybe keep Pudge with Derrick Norris in the wings. I still like Flores though, and I think that he will still be a key player somewhere.
Joe Seamhead is absolutely right on Pudge. He's still a superb backup catcher, although he might demand more ABs than your standard backup catcher and wouldn't hit any better. But if I can't trade Flores (maybe as part of a package for leadoff), I think I would rather keep him than Pudge.
Wang and Ankiel would likely add value. Cora might make the roster next year, but I wouldn't sign him now. Give him a chance to sign with somebody else and invite him to spring training if he doesn't. Could Livo make it as a long reliever? I don't know, and there really isn't any other spot for him.
I'd resign Coffey if he were cheap enough, but I don't think he will be.
Nix and Gomes? Davey Johnson wants 'em, I've heard. I don't. I'd prefer giving the ABs to Bernardina.
Re-sign
- Wang/2yr Deal
(great upside for a SP)
- Ankiel/1yr
(LHB & can play all outfield positions)
- Gomes/1yr
(RHB of bench & an emotional leader)
- Pudge/2yr
(trade Flores! Pudge is a good backup & Nats would get some history by him hitting number 3K)
- Todd Coffey/1yr
(if price is right - "you can never have enough pitching")
do not resign
- Livan Hernandez (sign Oswalt type to replace)
- Alex Cora (Not enough production)
- Laynce Nix (No roster room)
Let's go W's!!!!
I think the issue with Livo as a long reliever is that he has an exceptionally long warm-up routine. I'm not sure that's a role he could fill even if they wanted him to.
Resign Wang on a one year incentive laden contract.
Take Ankiel back on a minor league deal.
Are Nix or Ankiel Type B Free Agents? I know Gomes is, so some teams might be scared away from signing him which should improve our leverage situation. I think having one of these guys back as a 5th Outfielder would be great, but I would rather keep Bernadina as our 3rd or 4th OF and try to find a better find out in Free Agency.
I try and sign Wang, I am ok with two years if its not a huge amount and I agree that there should be lots of incentives.
I also offer Coffey a contract but I need him to take a paycut.
I agree with others that if we can trade Flores then we sign Pudge but the comment about him reaching 3,000 hits here just doesn't make sense. If you look at how many hits he had this year, it will take him 3 or 4 seasons and I can't see him here more than one more year if Norris keeps improving.
The 3 outfielders are puzzling. If you look at what Nix contributed before getting injured, he was one of our top offensive players. He also proved to be a total team player as he played 1st base for I believe, the first time since HS. He is not a great fielder but he is solid. If he is healthy, I think I bring him back over the other two. I liked Ankiels arm (duh) and I think all 3 bring positive chemistry into the clubhouse. You could make a case for Ankiel but I think its a stretch to rate Gomes over Bernadina.
Sadly, I say goodbye to Livan and Cora. Livan is a great story but he really was not pitching well at the end of the season and I don't see him handling a relief role. I would bring Bixler back over Cora just because he is younger, faster and can play more positions.
How much fun is Hot Stove, can't wait for the damn thing to heat up.
The only player who should be considered a priority is Wang. I'll leave the contract details to Mr. Rizzo and company (e.g, one or two years, options, incentives), but the Nats need him next year as their 4th or 5th starter. And other teams will likely fee the same way -- i.e., that he's worth taking a chance on with a reasonable contract -- so there is some urgency in getting the deal done as early as possible.
As for the others, as much as we may like or respect or have fond memories of them, I don't expect any other teams to be clamoring to sign them to major league contracts. And if some other team is anxious to sign one of them, to meet some specific need or vision, that team is probably willing to pay too much. So take your time, Nats. If an Ankiel or a Nix or a Coffey will sign a minor league deal, fine. But not a major league deal. Those sorts of fill-out-the-roster signings can wait until you've sorted out all your other FA signings, trades, and the like, focusing on the more important priorities first.
Now that LaRussa's retired, how can the Cardinals keep Pujols?
If Peacock, Milone and Detwiler are ready for the majors, why sign Wang or Hernandez? Milone will be 25, Detwiler 26 and Peacock 24 before Opening Day 2012. It is about time to see whether they fit the Nats' long term plans or not.
Remind me again, who our centerfielder is next year? Seems to me so many of these decisions flow from the outcome in center. Are Flores and one of Desi, Espi or Lombi in a deal for a CF? Then keeping Pudge and Cora makes a lot more sense. If we can't acquire an outfielder good enough to move all three OFs into the background, why let any of them go?
On the pitching side, CMW seems like a length of contract issue. Did he pitch well enough to earn 2 years guaranteed? Only with a low base and incentives IMHO.
I love Livo but the cold reality is that we have outgrown him. Too much talent around to assume we need him, and really, any assumption we NEED him is based around a pretty catastrophic failure of about six or seven options. Seriously, how many starters have to fail before you need to send Livo out every fifth day?
Coffey? Seems replaceable until we let him go and he outpitches his replacement.
Tough calls to make in a vacuum.
Just got the Davey Johnson announcement via text. Now let's hear something about Wang.
NatsJack......what/who is your source on LaRussa's retirement? I haven't heard or read anything on this subject until your comments.
CMW has a great way to showcase his stuff in the Taiwan series, either he makes himself more money or the Nats can resign him on the cheap, either way I think it is worth it.
As far as the veteran presence with Livo, Pudge and Cora, I do not think any of them will be back although I could see the sense behind giving Livo a minor league deal.
Outfield - All three have heart but I am torn between Nix and Ankiel. Nix's bat makes him an intriguing guy to have as an option and Ankiel's ability to play all 3 positions well and improving bat makes a him a bit more attractive.
It should be noted that according to the latest reverse-engineered ESB ratings on MLBtraderumors.com, Gomes is no longer projected as a Type B FA. He played himself out of it, unsurprisingly enough.
It's seriously doubtful he'll be offered arbitration if that's the case.
Re-sign:
Wang (if he can be believed he will re-sign since the Nats were the only team willing to give him a chance with his rehab)
Ankiel - good defensive outfield, great arm
Coffey - unless he goes insane and asks for a huge salary, he worked well from the bullpen.
Good Luck and Thanks for All Your Hard Work:
Pudge - wants to end his career with 3000 hits, which is going to take a lot of plate appearances. Better off with Flores as backup.
Gomes – did not see enough offensive production from him that warrants re-signing
Livan Hernandez – better days are behind him, but I enjoyed it while he was with the Nats
Alex Cora – nothing from him to justify re-signing
Laynce Nix – was hurt too much to risk re-signing
Since the Deadskins are doing nothing, I can't wait for baseball.
GO NATS!
NatsJack, you have an interesting way of breaking news.
As to free agents, it's too complex for me. I mean, they are free agents, so they have as much choice as the team does. And now it's not just our guys, but everybody else's. I (mostly) don't know everybody else's. So I'll (mostly) just wait and see what does happen.
Hernandez is a good fit for that dump heap of a pitching staff at Camden Yards.
Nats1924 said...
Re-sign
- Wang/2yr Deal
(great upside for a SP)
- Ankiel/1yr
(LHB & can play all outfield positions)
- Gomes/1yr
(RHB of bench & an emotional leader)
- Pudge/2yr
(trade Flores! Pudge is a good backup & Nats would get some history by him hitting number 3K)
- Todd Coffey/1yr
(if price is right - "you can never have enough pitching")
do not resign
- Livan Hernandez (sign Oswalt type to replace)
- Alex Cora (Not enough production)
- Laynce Nix (No roster room)
Let's go W's!!!!
October 31, 2011 8:12 AM
I agree with you except it is either keep Flores or trade Flores and Pudge on another 1 year deal and I don't see Gomes as the bat off of the bench or a guy who could be a defensive replacement. Keep in mind that Stairs had better numbers off of the bench than Gomes just to give you perspective.
Yes for Coffey if Davey uses him as a stopper. He is your right-handed equivalent of a LOOGY so Coffey is a ROOGY. When he wasn't over-used, he was spectacular getting out of jams especially when Clippard was unavailable.
If you have an outfield of Werth, Morse, new acquisition + Ankiel that only leaves one more spot. It gives Rizzo the opportunity to keep/trade Bernadina or sign Coco Crisp as either the new acquisition starter or the 5th outfielder coming off the bench in place of Bernadina who can be traded. It seems like over-kill going with 2 new acquisitions for the outfield but it will give the Nats depth they have never had before where Werth and Morse won't be over-used. If they don't re-sign Ankiel, then Bernadina is a keeper.
Sign Wang.
NO to Cora, Livo, Pudge and Gomes. Sure, Pudge has a rocket of an arm, but he simply cannot hit. Catchers have a tendency to get hurt. Flores may want more playing time than he's scheduled to get, but one foul ball or bad collision could get him behind the plate on an everyday basis pretty quick.
And speaking of not hitting, Gomes' performance as a PH was horrid, worse than Matt Stairs' embarrassing attempts.. And if you're on the bench, you have to be able to Pinch Hit, or at least drive in runs with fly balls.
Put Ankiel and Nix on ice until a Centerfielder is signed.... or not.
Coffey is too expensive and definitely expendable. Stammen looked like he could be a decent Righty out of the Pen. H-Rod, Mattheus and Clippard are already decent middle to late set up men for Storen. The real need is a dependable lefty or two. Slaten was a disaster and Burnett never seemed totally dependable.
What he said except, in my case, you could probably delete "mostly" in both cases.
Scooter said:
I (mostly) don't know everybody else's. So I'll (mostly) just wait and see what does happen.
October 31, 2011 10:55 AM
NatsJack in Florida said...
Now that LaRussa's retired, how can the Cardinals keep Pujols?
Player-manager? After all, he already knows how to call the hit and run.
La Russa retirement link.
Does La Russa's retirement make it more likely that Pujols will leave St. Louis? Even a certainty?
Haven't we seen this act before? When and where will La Russa resurface? 2013 in Washington after Davey's next 'retirement'? To rejoin Albert?
LaRussa going out on top in a miracle way. Somehow the chess master must have felt that was his final checkmate.
I also have to believe the Albert Pujols debacle will not end well for the Cardinals and may have factored into the chest master's decision.
Pujols looked so uncomfortable talking about remaining a Cardinal as he was watching his words as to act like he didn't want to incriminate himself. Avoided really any talk about it and just looked miserable when the subject came up.
Personally, I think if Pujols doesn't return to St. Louis he tarnishes his perfect reputation as he always has held himself above life's trivial meanderings and was more about substance than I thought about money.
Pujols has earned $104,000,000 plus all of his endorsement and marketing and post-season money for 10 years in the big leagues. Yes, the Cardinals the last few years stole him at $14 million a year. Could they make that up to him in much the same way as the Brewers did for Ryan Braun when he just signed his extension? They should.
Chien Ming Wang: Most definitely a keeper, and if possible on a two year contract, because he'll eventually be the best number 5 starter in baseball, that is if everything falls into place for the Nats. In 2011, the more he pitched, the stronger and better he did on the mound. This makes him a keeper in my books, and hopefully he'll be back.
Livan Hernandez: His tank is so close to empty, in more than half his appearances, he's trying to get by running on fumes. Because he takes forever to warm up, there's no way he could be call upon as a long man out of the pen. To resign him would be throwing money away.
Todd Coffey: He did a decent job out of the pen for the Nats, but as the season wore on, he wore out, running out of gas in September. He took a pay cut when he signed with the Nats after having had a not so great season. If he's willing to sign for the same amount, or a little less, he's signable, otherwise, he can walk.
Ivan Rodriguez: If he signs with the Nats he knows it will be as a backup, and he will be admitting that he will never see 3,000 hits, because he simply wont get enough at bats to give him a chance. As much as I and everyone loves Pudge, he's gone, unless he's resigned to the fact that's he's no long an everyday starting catcher. One thing certain, he's gonna make on terrific coach and manager one day.
Alex Cora: Resigning Cora, a one time regular, turned bench jockey shouldn't be resigned. It would make more sense to bring back someone like Willie Harris or Jerry Hairston, both of which can play the infield and outfield, and play them well, or if they want a clubhouse influence and perfect infield backup and occasional starter, ring back someone like Jamey Carroll.
Rick Ankiel: When the Nats signed him, fans complained that he would take at bats away from Bernadina, but when they saw the rocket he has for an arm and his defense in the outfield, they soon quieted. Ankiel did a more than decent job as a starter and off the bench, he plays all three outfield positions well, is a left handed bat with power off the bench (which Davey likes) and would be a valuable asset in 2012. I say, resign him on a two year deal.
Jonny Gomes: As far as I'm concerned, despite his presence on the bench and in the clubhouse, the Nats should not resign him. He's not very good defensive (average at best) and was a no show off the bench. The only time he performed was when he was in games. Because he's not great defensively and most definitely not a pinch hitter, to pay a guy to be a "clubhouse presence" is a bad move.
Laynce Nix: At $700,000 last year was his biggest contract so far. He can play every day, and knows he's not a regular, he has the attitude needed for a good guy off the bench. He has some power, but doesn't hit for anything close to a decent average and he doesn't get on base. He showed he could be a fairly good backup at first, although he's not going to win any gold gloves, because of Chris Marerro's presence, resigning him isn't going to happen.
So my keepers, in order of preference, are: Chien Ming Wang and Rick Ankiel on two year deals and then, and if the price is right, Todd Coffey. I would also definitely bring back Pudge if he's willing to sign for much less. Everyone else can walk.
I know regular season is a ways away, but I am fairly confident that Coco Crisp will be our Starting CF for 2012. I have no more information than any of you, but with the FA market the way it is, he seems like the best option. I'm hoping we can get him for a cheap 2 year deal.
He is a name that has been bandied about the boards for months. I don't get the fascination with him. And I am not sure I would ever want someone on my team named Coco Crisp. Can't we make a trade for Count Chocula?
Why not consider Grady Sizemore? Sizemore's potential upside is much higher than Nix, Gomes, and Ankiel combined. Offer a decent (neither extravagant nor stingy) one-year deal, with a one-year club option. If Sizemore's too proud to accept that or if someone outbids you, fine, take a pass. But of all the free agent outfielders out there, Sizemore strikes me as having the greatest potential to be next year's Lance Berkman.
Kenz aFan, I went shortcut and you went player by player with good analysis. I went 1/2 a$$ and worked off of Nats1924s list with notes.
You and I are in total agreement especially on Gomes (see my notes).
I am a little more bullish on Coffey only if Davey wants a ROOGY and occassionally a 1 inning guy. Coffey may sprint in from the bullpen, but he lacks endurance. Just saw him sputter too often when he faced his 3rd batter. If Davey is looking for a set-up guy then Coffey isn't his cup of tea as he won't last. If Davey is looking for a guy who can get you out of trouble in the 4th to 6th innings, Coffey was amazing with inherited runners.
Jewdacris, I think if Coco Crisp is the starter in CF, I am ok with that as a stopgap to Harper. Still hoping the Nats can go corner outfield and move Werth to CF with Coco Crisp as the 4th outfielder. I still think the Nats should sign Crisp as he will perform better starting fewer games. He has speed, smarts, can hit for a decent average, take a walk and has a good glove even though his UZR dropped in 2011 (huh ?) from 2010 from positive to negative.
Just sayin' - Grady Sizemore is a reclamation case. Not sure if you can count him in to stay healthy.
2009 106 games, 2010 33 games, 2011 71 games.
Coco Crisp sure isn't a big name to get excited about. On the other hand, nobody knew who David Freese really was before the post season.
Crisp isn't a home run hitter but has a chance to be the game changer Rizzo wanted in Nyjer and hopefully Crisp won't demand to be a starter. He is insurance. Insuring that if Desi can't leadoff, Crisp can. Insuring if Rizzo doesn't get his big outfielder bat, Crisp can at least get on base.
Mark'd, that is a fair outlook on Crisp. Right now the Nats have penciled in
LaRoche at 1st
Werth in RF
Bernadina in CF
Morse in LF
Those are players under team control. So many variables in play that could change any one of those scenarios.
What ifs? What if LaRoche isn't healthy to start the season and Morse is moved to 1st? What if Bernadina is traded? What if Ankiel is re-signed?
In 2010 and 2011, Rizzo made Spring Training moves to leave the outfield in disarray. This year I think you have to plan ahead and have Ankiel for insurance and if you can snag Crisp early on in Free Agency, you have upgraded the previous outfield that the Nats finished 2011 with. Crisp will cost you $5.5 million a year for 2 years.
With Bryce Harper looking to come up sooner than later, you have flexibility with Crisp that he can come off of the bench also.
Bernadina doesn't have options left which complicates matters. Do you let Ankiel go to Free Agency and sign him later if you can't trade Bernadina?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/official-elias-rankings.html
Do my eyes deceive me? Coco Crisp is not a Type B free agent and Carlos Beltran contractually walks and the Giants get no compensation?
So the Nats can sign either and give up no draft picks.
In other news, 1st off-season trade. Braves trade Derek Lowe to the Indians.
Sign Wang, Coffey, Nix, Livo. The last 2 to help the young guys learn. Livo can be the RH long reliever that Davey likes and he's a great clubhouse guy now.
Go get Sizemore or Crisp to bat leadoff. Sign Oswalt or Buerhle. Win the NL Wild card.
Regarding Sizemore, the Nats should take a serious look at him. From 2005-2008, he was one of the best in the game. I'd rather we take a chance on his upside than another retread like Crisp, DeJesus, or Ankiel. He's exactly the player the Nats need. Great OBP (.357), great CF defense, and likely not very expensive (certainly much less than $9mil). I think he's just as risky of an acquisition as Denard Span.
Though, if we opted for Sizemore, it would be smart to resign Ankiel, as cover for Sizemore.
Otherwise, resign Wang and Coffey, and maybe Ankiel, depending on the Nats OF/CF plans. Let the others go.
(Phone rings in bullpen)
Jim Lett: Hello?
Davey: Warm Livo up in a hurry!
Jim: Okay... He'll be ready in an inning or two. 'Livo! get ready!'
Livo: (Yawn) Huh? In a hurry? Whas that? i don't do anything fast. You can't rush perfection.
Davey: Oh brother!
I agree with Kenz aFan about Gomes that "[t]he only time he performed was when he was in games." Same can be said about Zimmerman.
I'm not sure I would categorize Grady Sizemore as a 'reclamation' project. Dmitri Young, Elijah Dukes, and probably even Paul Lo Duca represented attempts at reclamation. Their careers had become derailed given their off-field problems/issues or their on-field (but not injury-related) failures -- or both. Most such attempts fail (Dmitri's one good year in DC was a notable aberration).
In Sizemore's case, my understanding is that you've got someone who's had a string of (essentially unrelated - I think) injuries over the course of three consecutive seasons. That's certainly bad luck and you'll want to be very careful in considering a contract offer, but it's not necessarily indicative of someone whose career has fallen off the deep end and now needs to be rescued.
That said, I agree with "Just Sayin'" that any contract offer needs to be carefully structured and, if accepted, represents a gamble. And it goes without saying that the Nats would want to see Sizemore's medical records and maybe put him through a workout and physical before finalizing a contract. But if they're convinced he's healthy -- I know, I know, that's easy to write than to prove -- an attempt to acquire him would make sense. Because, with the possible exception of Beltran, Sizemore is fundamentally a better all-around player than any other outfielder on the FA market.
Wang and Pudge as backup if you are able to trade Flores. Otherwise, Wang. Livo as coach.
Wang for sure. Coffey did a good job, I thought. Ankiel, as a role players. Livo, Pudge, thanks but no thanks. A healthy Nix, maybe. Cora, not with Lombardozzi in the wings and no to Gomes.
2 years for Pudge?? Since last May, he's hit about .225. Maybe 5 HR, we can do better from Flores. Pudge is still one of the best defensive catchers in the league and an inspiration, but his offense is a memory.
Sizemore would be a great signing IF he is healthy. You must have him submit to lots of testing. He has had 3 different injuries and I don't think any are related. He was an All-Star before the injuries and would be a huge jump over Ankiel or Crisp. He will be 30 next August, & was an Expo when he started his pro career. In his first 4 years, he missed a total of 9 games but the last 3 have not been pretty. I would create a contract with big time incentives for games played and hope we land him. Doesn't help our leadoff situation but if he returns to his norm we certainly would not have to rush Harper. Morse, Sizemore, Werth, LaRoche, Zimmerman should all produce 20+ HRs and Espinosa, Ramos and Desmond will all be 15+ and we would also have decent speed with Desmond, Espinosa, Werth, Sizemore all being excellent base stealers.
Just a quick note on Bryce Harper: he already has 3 errors in the OF in the AFL. He's still not ready for prime time, imho.
Not that it would/should factor in to any FO decision making, but I believe that Sizemore was drafted by Montreal back in the day.
Pudge was a backup for the first time in 19 years, think there was a major adjustment in having no consistent at- bats, defensively he was stellar. He will get a job with more at-bats than is possible with the Nats. Selfishly wish he could stay with the Nats, realistically, it will be best for him personally to go elsewhere. A Livo/Pudge battery provided the most entertaining games, be great if they could be sold as a package.
I love Livan. I just love him. I know we won't keep him. And I know that , "I love Lvan" adds nothing to the dialogue. But I do, I did, and that's all there is to it,
Now we know why Tony was so voluble with the press this post season,
Livo as a coach. Or something If the Nats do as well as we expect (hope) this year and next it will be personally heartbreaking to see Livan Hernandez, who has meant so much for so long, not be part of it.
And if Peacock and Millone are joining Strasburg and Zimmermann those young pitchers will no doubt benefit from a veteran who can speak to them with experience, with wisdom, and without an interpreter.
Similarly, don't let Wang get better on our dime, and then let him 'harvest his nuts' with another team.
I like Ankiel, I'm iffy on Pudge, and will send a lovely thanks-but-no-thanks fruit basket to the rest.
I accuse Mark Z of biased reporting for posting a picture like that of Livan. LOL! Definitely does not fit the athletic mode of Rizzo's team. jk
As much as I would like to see Livo and Pudge back, I don't see room for them.
What she said. :-)
JaneB said...
I love Livan. I just love him. I know we won't keep him. And I know that , "I love Lvan" adds nothing to the dialogue. But I do, I did, and that's all there is to it,
Now we know why Tony was so voluble with the press this post season,
October 31, 2011 7:10 PM
PUDGE!
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