Saturday, June 22, 2013

Instant Analysis: Rockies 7, Nats 1

Photo by the Associated Press
Game in a nutshell: Dan Haren's unfortunate season continued on Saturday as he fell into trouble quickly in the first inning. Haren was all over the place with two wild pitches, a hit batter, and countless balls that sent Jhonatan Solano chasing to make stops. He gave up three runs early and allowed three later to eliminate any real chance for the Nats to win. After falling down early, the Nationals' offense reverted back to its ineffective ways and made for an easy day for Rockies starter Jhoulys Chacin. Chacin cruised through seven innings with five hits, one walk, and zero runs allowed.

Hitting lowlight: In this game, there weren't many hitting highlights besides a solo home run by Ryan Zimmerman in the ninth inning. The Nats had six total hits, but couldn't get anything in bunches. Their 6-8 hitters (Bernadina, Lombardozzi, and Solano) combined to go 0-for-8. Washington left 11 total batters on base today.


Pitching lowlight: Right from the beginning it was clear Haren was in trouble. He couldn't find the strike zone early and allowed three runs in the first. D.J. LeMahieu got the Rockies started with a solo home run and it was all downhill from there. Haren ended up with seven earned runs in only 3 1/3 innings of work with the two wild pitches and HBP.

Key stat: Haren has allowed 20 earned runs in his last 18 1/3 innings pitched.

Up next: The Nats and Rockies play their series finale on Sunday with a 1:35 p.m. start scheduled. Lefties Ross Detwiler (2-5, 3.34 ERA) and Jorge De La Rosa (7-4, 3.21) are your starters.

118 comments:

Drew said...

In Dan Haren's 15 starts, the Nats are 4-11.

In those games they have been out scored 93-38.

This team will never make a run if it forfeits every fifth day.

David Proctor said...

Haren will be on the DL soon. Not upset, I expected a loss.

Will be thrilled if we win 3/4. Let's go Det tomorrow.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Too much Haren; not enough hitting.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Per Ray Knight, "When you are trying to catch a team, you can't afford to give away a day."

David Proctor said...

Ray Knight is really laying into Haren. I like it.

DaveB said...

Any word on Werth ... just giving him a break, or something more serious?

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Ray unloading on Haren.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Those are brutal numbers, Drew. Thanks for the math calculations. And that includes that 2-0 loss to Baltimore. That was only a month ago...it seems like dog years' back.

Ohlmy to the rotation, Haren to the 'pen. It's gotta happen.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I put his quote you guys areferring to. Is that worth a drink from each?

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Anything in Haren's contract that could allow an early out by management and save some of the loot they sent his way?

karlkolchak said...

The way things went today, Ohlendorf is now set up nicely to take the next turn in the rotation while Haren gets demoted to the pen. I don't have big confidence in Ohlendorf either, but anything has to be an improvement at this point.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Nats 5-3 in my 8 games attended this year. How many did Hsren start?

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I wrote on here a couple of weeks ago about just how bad Haren has been, no secret I know, but all of our negative run differential is due to Haren.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Davey is a little concerned. Translation?

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Davey sez he's a "little concerned" about Haren.

That's like saying Custer was a little worried at Little Big Horn.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Davey being sly.

David Proctor said...

Davey is concerned and apparently wants to talk to Dan and has a "plan" to make things better. Makes me wonder if he's thinking bullpen or DL.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Davey is generally so positive that concerned is basically like Earl Weaver saying that so and so %$#*.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Haren will cured with Davey's word.

Thank goodness

karlkolchak said...

NatsFanSinceStart - Nope. MLB does not work like the NFL where cutting a guy midseason saves any money. Since Haren's contract is already a sunk cost, I imagine they may try him in the bullpen for awhile since sometimes a failed starter can be effective if they can get pumped up and just throw their best stuff for an inning or two.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Will be cured.....

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Just look at this lineup they sent out today. After Desmond at #5, it's all downhill with three oh so weak hitters and then the pitcher. Hard to compete with just 5 hitters in the lineup. I'm wondering how long the Nationals are going to allow Bernadina to call D.C. his home -- Lombo and Solano are most weak as well.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Davey been thinking this answer for 6 innings.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

This presser is starting to remind me of Nixon, circa 1972-74.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

The Dream foundation.... Ross O starting.

Many things Davey can do.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Sunshine does Julie play the roll of Rosemary Woods?

Who john Dean,? Eck?

David Proctor said...

You all might think Davey is sugarcoating things or something, but for him, this is like a scathing indictment. Davey doesn't believe in talking bad about players (and I agree). This is pretty much the worst you could possibly expect him to be.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

No shutout.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

We can read between the lines so we should be pleased

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Best part only counts as 1 loss.

Eugene in Oregon said...

"That's like saying Custer was a little worried at Little Big Horn."
+++++++++++++++++++

Actually, I think the problem was that Lt. Col. Custer wasn't worried enough. Didn't he say something like 'Black Hills or bust' before he set out?

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Span had a couple of singles. I guess that is something. I think Lombo needs to stop playing. Strangely enough, Bryce Harper is in no hurry to get back. He says he needs a week more than Davey thinks he needs to get ready. I never would have predicted that but he is only making $500,000 so it is hard to blame him for finally being risk averse, perhaps unduely.

Laddie Blah Blah said...

I don't know if Ohlendorf is the solution, but Haren is definitely a problem.

I can't understand why Davey wastes so much time sticking with a losing strategy, but rushes Harp back into play so he can aggravate an injury while trying to play through it. 20-year-old Harper has more sense than his 70-year-old manager.

The Nats would be breathing right down the Braves' neck if the Nats could have gone 4 - 4 in Haren's last 8 starts, instead of 0 - 8. They should have made the switch to Ohlendorf 2 starts ago.

I could have gone 0 - 8, myself, and would have done it for only $10 mn, maybe even less. The Nats could have saved $3 mn, at least, and would have been no worse off than they are now. (Pssst - I would have settled for $5 mn).

Drew said...

The Nationals' run differential is minus 29.

It is minus 55 in Haren's 15 starts.

That means that in the team's other 59 games, it is plus 26.

And Typhoid Dan is pocketing $13 million.

David Proctor said...

I think you're misunderstanding the thing with Davey. Davey and Harper are a day or two apart on when he should go to rehab assignment. No biggie. The difference is that Harper wants to play 6-7 games (which is abnormally long for a rehab stint) to regain his timing. Davey thinks he'll be good with 1-2 start.

I don't think Bryce is going to need 6 or 7 starts in the minors. That's excessive.

It really has nothing to do with the injury.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Actually, Harper at least partially aggravated the leg by recklessly sliding twice in a row after the initial injury.

karlkolchak said...

NatsFanSinceStart - regarding the lineup, you are very right. The problem is that they have pretty much brought up every minor league position player who was even close to MLB-ready and other than Rendon, none of them has had much of an impact. Kobernus was leading the league in batting average and Marrero was leading Syracuse in home runs and RBIs, and yet both have looked fairly helpless at the plate since being recalled. And before them it was Eury Perez, who looked no better.

About the only other option would be Corey Brown, but his numbers even at AAA don't look so hot this year. Basically they are stuck unless they want to try to trade for a veterean bench player, but if you look around the league you'll see backup players' batting averages below the Mendoza line all over the place.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Harper implied that he wanted to spend some time with his brother, jokingly, but a week seems excessive but this whole month off has seemed excessive but like I said, it isn't as though Bryce is making any real money yet. Why should he risk it? He and Trout and Machado can thank their older bretheren in the player's union for screwing them over salary-wise so that Dan Haren makes 26 times what Harper does.

JaneB said...

I feel bad for Dan Haren. It's clear that he's searching. It's clear he's a good, good guy who really cares. He is probably the most straightforward, present athlete I've ever seen interviewed. He doesn't fall back into Athlete Speak. At the same time, it's no longer a tenable situation to give him the ball every fifth day. This is a day I;m glad I'm not the manager.

natsfan1a said...

Just...yuck. That, and I'm glad I had tomorrow's game instead of today's.

I would imagine that Haren feels bad about it, too. He looked pretty down in the dugout after he came out. I don't imagine that he wants to stink it up, or that he is trying to do so. I'm not saying that things don't need to change, just that I felt for the guy when fans cheered Davey coming to get him and then booed the dude off the field. Sounded kinda like Philly. Anyhoo. Tomorrow is another day.

natsfan1a said...

Also, I think I might owe JaneB a drink.

baseballswami said...

Werth has the flu. Don't spread it!!! I have been a bit puzzled about Bryce. He is twenty, he ran head first into a wall. He has handled the off time very calmly. Does anyone think he might be a bit apprehensive about playing? Seems like he could be a little - gulp-- fearful? Afraid to really play full out and re- injure his knee? Is he growing up and becoming sensible? Hope Davey does not push too hard- then if it does relapse the liability is on him. Did not expect Bryce to be NOT pushing to get back. Missed the game-- Haren got booed?? I know he is bad, but I don't like fans booing guys unless there is a lack of effort. I mean, I don't want him to start the next time, but booing him?

David Proctor said...

Haren was booed several times and then Davey got a standing ovation when he came out to get Haren.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Laddie, as I said a week ago we don't know if Ohlendorf is for real but we know Haren is not. 1 good start sandwiched between 3 bad starts is an inconsistent mess. Eat the money and move on.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...
Sunshine does Julie play the roll of Rosemary Woods?

Who john Dean,? Eck?

You missed a career at Central Casting, Manassas NF...

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I recommend that Dan Haren donate his salary above normal family expenses to charity this year as a show of good faith to the Nats and to prove what a good guy he is....

Secret wasian man said...

There are a few guys on this team who just seemed to want a paycheck. Haren and Span seem this way. He doesn't seemed concerned that he stinks. I dream about John lannan. IN A BASEBALL WAY OF COURSE.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Spurts where it is easy....

That is true for every pitcher.

Eugene in Oregon said...

DP @ 3:17,

And remember, this is the first time that Bryce Harper is coming off the DL. Other players -- e.g., Jayson Werth, Ryan Zimmerman -- have a better feel for what they need to 'get their timing back' or whatever you want to call it.

natsfan1a said...

hmmm...didn't a COL starter complain of flu-like symptoms after losing a game to the Nats last week? I seem to recall hearing that on a COL radio broadcast. Nahh. It's probably just going around.

Swami: on Bryce, I was thinking that maybe he was in tune with his body rather than apprehensive, but he's probably the only one who can answer that. On Haren, yes, it sounded like first, lots of cheers for Davey and then, lots of boos for Haren on the tv broadcast.

David Proctor said...

Span seems like he wants the paycheck? Not sure why you think that. He's not even getting paid that much (compared to others), he plays flawless defense and is CLEARLY frustrated by his hitting.

We have guys underperforming, but there's no need to say they don't care or just want a paycheck. Not everything is some big character flaw.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

and that says a lot - Nats fans are not the booing type - soon they may be booing Davey himself.

Secret wasian man said...

What really pisses me is John L was a TRUE National. I just really liked and rooted for this guy. Although he was not HOF material he battled his butt off for this team.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I sincerely doubt that Werth has the flu, although he might have a cold or a 24 hour bug.

natsfan1a said...

You forget, David, that this is the a baseball blog. On the Interwebz. ;-)

Not everything is some big character flaw.

natsfan1a said...

Eh, I'm going for ice cream. Later.

David Proctor said...

We've had something going around a few times this year. Remember in Miami, Span and Harper got sick. Then Werth got sick before (and dehydration resulting from it supposedly exacerbated his hamstring issues). Odd.

Secret wasian man said...

Yes you right about Span David.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Orioles are never out of a game and they never have one salted away, either.

karlkolchak said...

I had tickets for todays game, but sold them off at face value. I could have gone, would have it had been any of the starters pitching, but I just knew I was going to hate the experience. Turned out I was absolutely right, which is a horrible commentary on Haren.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

What do you mean you dream about Lannan in a baseball way? What other way is there?

Laddie Blah Blah said...

Jane B, I knew you were going to feel sorry for Haren. I don't know why, but I just knew it. Remember, they are paying the guy $13 mn this year, and he doesn't have to give them a refund. I wish he had performed better, but I can't feel sorry for someone making that kind of money when so many others are barely making it from paycheck to paycheck.

Stan Musial actually gave the Cards some of their money back after he failed to hit .300 one year, but I don't think Dan will allow himself to make such a gesture.

Ghost, once again, I think we are of similar mind.

Just wonderin' said...

There are a few guys on this team who just seemed to want a paycheck.

-----

Players get paid? I thought they were all volunteers. Wow. Next thing you know they'll be wanting pensions and health care. Shocking.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Toronto has a reliever named Outman. Our relievers are decent, but who wouldn't want an Outman....

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

And the younger players will believe that unlike Haren, they should be paid based upon performance and not upon time spent parked in the MLB union....

D'Gourds said...

I just don't get it. Why are Davey and Rizzo so glacial to make obvious changes? Everybody knew how bad Espinosa, hrod and haren are. Why persist? Are they stupid? Just accept you made a mistake with the signing and move him to long relief.
btw, even though they strung together three wins, their hitting is still anemic. The team has major holes. Let's not talk turn around until the team ba is better than .250.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...
Orioles are never out of a game and they never have one salted away, either.


Their bullpen just gave up a 2 run HR within a few pitches of the starter leaving.

NatsLady said...

I was a supporter of both Henry and Chien-Ming Wang until it became untenable. The "hate" on both of them was pretty bad, you just don't remember. Maybe it makes it worse that Haren is making more money but if he costs us games it doesn't matter if he's making $13 or $13 million. They will make a decision. This "I'll talk to him and look at his next bullpen" is BS. Agree you don't want to make an impulse decision, but this is beyond impulsive.

I expect Rizzo is looking at some short-term candidates for a 5th starter for two reasons
(1) This really has to be Haren's last start and Ohlendorf is questionable to me as 5th start week in week out.
(2) There could be another injury in the rotation. There has to be a fallback plan, and all the fall back plans we tried when Det and Stras were down didn't work (except Ohlendorf).

Karns has been tried and found wanting. Maybe he will be okay next year. Maya, tried repeatedly and found wanting. Couldn't even pitch ONE inning when his career depended on it. That takes care of our farm system.

Really, you didn't want Jackson or Lohse. Even if they are (marginally) better than Haren, they are on mult-year contracts.

What you want now is a guy who is going to be an FA at the end of this year, get him on a rental from a team that wants to dump salary. Then, if I were Rizzo, I would re-evaluate the strategy of getting the 5th starter off the FA market.

You have Stammen, Garcia and some other candidates in-house that should be looked at for that job--that's a discussion for the future.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I agree about Lannan. The Post did a major article on him last summer and I came away after reading it having a great deal of respect for him. Sure, he was upset to be down in AAA when he was the Nats' highest paid returning pitcher. I wouldn't want a pitcher in my organization who wouldn't be upset about being sent down.

But Lannan admitted in print that he could only admire the Nats for keeping Detwiler on the club instead of him given the $4 million pay differential when the easier thing would have been to go the other way. Then, in perhaps the two biggest games of the year, what did Lannan do? He pitched his ass off, while that oaf Wang was getting slapped around silly down the stretch.

Now the Nats should man up and bring him back.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

He wants the timing back after a month. 4 or 5 games seems reasonable. 1-2 seems short.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

In any business managers are paid to do what needs to be done.

David Proctor said...

I'd say 3 or 4 games. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a position player making 6 or 7 rehab starts. Way too long. Even 5 seems like a lot.

I have a feeling that stuff will come back to him quicker than he thinks, but he knows better than I. They'll figure it out.

As far as pitchers, we don't have many trade chips for one and any pitcher worth a damn is going to be a trade chip (not just a salary dump). Tough position to be in.

The bullpen is the best it's been all year, I'm not particularly fond of moving Stammen out of there.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

He is the one could make the crowd. Cheer, so he is the controling factor

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Rizzo made a decision for several directions on his team and none of them have worked out well. I was vocal when they moved away from Lannan and I thought I was the only one. Interesting that so many now are mentioning it.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Should of pulled him sooner like after the homer.

The wind left the Nats immediately.

Three times I can remember him sucking the ar out of the stadium.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

No, that was my career, I didnt miss at all.

NatsLady said...

I think Harper is very young, and this was a shock to him--basically the first time in his life that his body and his playing style betrayed him. I have a feeling that when he gets back on the baseball field his muscle memory and his competitiveness will kick back in and he will be fine.

In the meantime, he should knock off the public statements because all it does is stir controversy. Just say, I'll go over to Potomac and if they put me in the line-up I'll play. No one needs to know what discussions or evaluations are involved.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Or buy a number of tickets to the BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Davey told him to back to what worked in the past.

baseballswami said...

David-- maybe our thoughts are skewed a bit on the rehab starts because so many of our players have done stints that were very short. We have seen one, two, maybe three. Does anyone know how many rehab starts are common in other organizations? Maybe a week is not considered short? All I know is this-- too many of our guys have not taken ENOUGH time before coming back and they either really stink or they relapse.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

The finsl out for the Nats came against Iutman.so Toronto has an Outman too,?

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

The immortal Tug McGraw could teach Mr. Haren the proper attitude:

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going...."

"I stand up and I start throwing...."

"I get myself ready to go on in, and strike out the side to preserve the win...."

"Then I relax and have some fun. A just reward for a job well done...."

See Scroogie, Signet Classics, at p.51.

David Proctor said...

about 3 games is what I typically see in other organisations. 6 or 7 just seems like A LOT.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Rockies pitcher last night was Outman.

Stupid fat fingers.

NatsLady said...

The other thing is, even if Atlanta wins today, we still gained two games on them and are at .500. I honestly didn't expect to win today's game. That's not to say I was conceding, but we were on "house money" today with the two wins Thur and Fri. Chacin is a good pitcher, he was their opening day starter.

De La Rosa is having a good year. Det will have his work cut out for him--on a hot humid day balls will be flying but if Det's sinker is working he should be OK.

I hope the boys get home as early as possible, rest up and heal, and get 'em tomorrow, and then have a nice day off and get ready for Arizona.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I think how long you were out also is a part of the formuls.

I thinks once he gets the feel be it 1 game or 7 he will be itching to come up.

Guessing 3 games maybe 4

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Josh Outman, I think.

I wanted Lannan instead of Haren but Rizzo had Boswell preaching the Haren gospel and there weas never really any debate that I remember. I doubt that Wang will keep this up, after all he had a couple of decent starts for us last year too, but he did look decent in the WBC so maybe we can blame Rizzo for letting him go too (joking).

NatsLady said...

MNF--Davey told who to back to what worked in the past? Span?

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I think all players should do what worked for them in the past, as long as it still works. So if Span can dial things back to 2007 then more power to him. That would be great. If he only dials back to 2011, not so much....

baseballswami said...

As to the offense( sigh), I thought I heard Desi say he quit looking a video and stats quite a while ago. He just watches, goes to the plate and hits. Hmmmmm.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

NatsLady said...
but if he costs us games it doesn't matter if he's making $13 or $13 million. They will make a decision. This "I'll talk to him and look at his next bullpen" is BS.


Salary on the last year of a contract should never make it an issue. It's already spent. If this was 2009 you keep him. Can't afford to wait any longer when you are trying to put together long winning streaks. Haren has been a streak killer.

As for his pitching, it's the same problem with the cutter. His cutter has upper 80's velocity and little cut movement and when it's up in the zone it's not much more than a BP fastball.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Here's a centerfielder that we could have gotten for next to nothing who is vastly outplaying Span this year, but apparently Rizzo was unaware of this fellow:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/byrdma01.shtml

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Yes Span drove the much better in Minnesota.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

2009 or 10 fine too,

Candide said...

Chase said...After falling down early, the Nationals' offense reverted back to its ineffective ways...

News flash: It reverted to its ineffective ways YESTERDAY. They got five hits and two runs yesterday, six hits and one run today. The only difference was they had Strasburg on the mound yesterday.

I don't boo our players, no matter how ineffectual, unless I think they're dogging it or playing like nincompoops. I can't believe Haren goes up there thinking, "Hmmm, first inning would be a good time to give up another dinger," or, "Oh, look a rookie in his first MLB at-bat - let's serve up a double for him, make him feel good."

He just doesn't have it any more. His fastball was hovering around 90 mph today, which is good enough to get you killed if you're not painting the last molecule on the strike zone. He had no command today - two WP and a HBP - so any time his pitches weren't perfect, he got creamed.

That's no reason to boo HIM. Boo the guy who puts him in the lineup, or the guy who brought him onto the team in the first place.

Or boo Joe West because, look at him.

I can't see any reason to keep Ohlendorf in the BP. He was effective in Syracuse, and he's had two good outings for us here. His ERA was 1.50 going into the game. Now it's up to 1.69 after giving up one run in 4-2/3 innings today. What's the argument against swapping his role with Haren's - give RossO the next start and try Haren in long relief?

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

He was a Nat some time back.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

I wanted Lannan instead of Haren but Rizzo had Boswell preaching the Haren gospel and there weas never really any debate that I remember.


Funny you say that as sometimes you have Boras and Boswell acting as if they are the brains behind this team.

Boswell did challenge the Nats to make a bold trade before 2012 and that was Gio.

Every time Lannan's name was mentioned the counter-argument always went back to xFIP and K/BB. Again, how's about that you check your ego and accept that a known quantity that can give you a 3.75 ERA was a better move than wishing upon a star that Haren would be Cy Young again. Just a big Fail.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Here is another guy who is roughly as good as Span, particularly at his peak and who is currently available:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morgany01.shtml

Candide said...

The Nats have scored two or fewer runs in 5 out of their last 10 games. They don't have the luxury of Dan Haren any more.

And the argument that, "We didn't pay $13 million for him to stick him in the bull pen" makes as much sense as saying, "My car breaks down every time I take it out, but I paid $50K for it, so I have to drive it."

Joe Seamhead said...

I was at the game and I was saddened to have many in Sec 311 sound like Philly fans. Look, Haren has stunk the place out. We all know it. But, as JaneB said, he's a good guy, and I'll guaranty you that he is bleeding right now, big bucks, or no.I haven't seen such venom thrown out by our fans before,and I gotta say, I didn't like it.

That all said, Dan Haren can not be allowed to start every 5th day for us, and in his own way, I think Davey pretty much said the same thing. Is Ross Ohlendorf the answer? It's possible, but I think that it's kind of scary.

Our daily 2nd baseman playing the outfield has got stop, too. That throw to the plate by Lombo was not only weak, it was stupid.I was so bummed when I got to the park and heard Werth was scratched, and then when I saw the lineup, along with Haren starting, I pretty much knew that we were toast. Heck, if Koufax in his prime had been pitching we still would've lost this game. You have to score some runs. and it seemed like we hit into a double play every time we had a runner on first with less then 2 outs.
Awful game, but I still am glad I went. Blind loyalty, I guess..

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Here is another guy who is roughly as good as Span and should be available:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dukesel01.shtml

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I can boo because he knows he doesnt have it anymore, but is willing to take $13 mil even though he doesn't have it anymore.

The front office also be booed for being poor stewarts of ownership's money.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

This guy is probably not quite as good as Denard but he is probably available too:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/millela02.shtml

Eugene in Oregon said...

NatsLady @ 3:40 p.m.,

I agree with most of what you wrote, but if you're talking about acquiring another starter you also have to find a team that both has such a player and considers itself out of the running for the second wild card spot. At this point, the only teams that are more than 15 games back (picking that number somewhat arbitrarily) in their divisions are: Houston, Miami, Chicago (NL), and Milwaukee. If you drop the games-back number down to 10 or 12, apart from the Mets and maybe the Mariners I'm not sure you get any teams that would truly consider themselves completely out of it. Among the 15-games-back teams, the only pitchers I would consider desirable are Yovanni Gallardo and Ricky Nolasco. But Mr. Gallardo's contract extends through the 2014 season, and I'm just not sure the Marlins -- even given their owner's fickle nature -- would violate the 'don't trade within your own division' rule. But ;you follow other teams' pitching more closely than most of us and I'd welcome your thoughts on other potential acquisitions.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Here is another guy roughly on par with Denard:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/harriwi02.shtml

D'Gourds said...

geez, i remember that book way back in 1974. what a reference mr. loeffler!

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Here is the guy that F.P. and apparently Rizzo, thinks Span resembles most:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/henderi01.shtml

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

He could have easily been cheeredif he simply would pitch like Gio did Wednesday. The second man homered that game to, and then he turned it around.

Haren had he done that, I guarentee no one would bo him.

Obviously, I was born in philly because I believe players being bood is not something I pitty.

Haren said he would have booed himself.

D'Gourds said...

POTD Candide!

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Thanks for the links though on my phone I can get to none, but I can figure out who they are about.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Thanks, D'gourds! I love that book and my son is reading it. There was a second edition but it is hard to find for a decent price.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Page 145 of Scroogie:

Rose: "Come on Johnny, Don't look so worried. There is no way the Pets can catch us. They just don't have the pitching hitting fielding or speed."

Bench: "Yeah, but it's their comic strip...."

Just remember, this is the Nats comic strip.....

karlkolchak said...

William O - comparing Span to Dukes and Milledge is unfair--one was a pothead and career petty criminal and the other was a showboat more interested in attention whoring than refining his baseball skills. I remember when the trade happened that one of the big concerns was that Span's home/away splits were hugely disportionate and that he has never hit that well outside of Minnesota. It seems to me that he has merely regressed to his non-Twin Cities self full time.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

My main issue with Rizzo is he seems slow to adapt when things don't work out and the fact that he seemed to seek change last fall just for the sake of change, which seems a bit too clever by half.

The Gio deal was a pretty darn good deal. We got a slightly better pitcher and a far more interesting player and personality. He brought Harper and Rendon up at just the right time. Soriano was arguably a good deal and might look better.

Rizzo was right to question whether to bring back ALR. There was no easy answer there but he got him down to 2 years. I am not sure about the Ryan Zimmerman deal. That was another close call.

Morse should have been kept and platooned with ALR at first. In fairness, no one thought Moore would be as outrageously horrible as he was this year, though.

Harper should have stayed in centerfield, as should have Denard Span, but in Minnesota. Harper is a star, like Willie and Mickey and he covers ground and has a gun of an arm. His fielding stats, apart from a few missed cut-off men, were superior. He belonged and belongs in centerfield.

Lannan should have been signed. Obviously, Haren should not have been signed. We should have had some lefties in the bullpen.

My feeling is that Rizzo's instincts are generally good but I am afraid that he was trying a bit too hard last year to pull a Billy Beane or something. Sometimes the best move is no move.

NatsLady said...

Eugene, I think the White Sox are out of it, and know it. Not sure what pitchers they have available, but I would add them to your list.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
baseballswami said...

Since the DJ era, it seemed like Rizzo was letting Davey call the shots. That was ok, because things were magically working. Seems like now Rizzo is maybe having to step in when Davey just won't make the decision. Just a theory - makes sense given Davey's obvious favoritism for Espi that he just could not stop playing him and so Rizzo had to be the bad guy. Davey used to be a real hard nosed guy but seems so much softer now. Things are being allowed to play out for a really, really long time before a change is made. Not one person will ever be able to say they did not get a chance.

ruggeds1000 said...

time to make a trade for the missing 5th starter. Someone out of the race will have a pitcher(Niese?) that is going to waste and needs to rebuild with some good prospects. Remember this is world series or bust time. The future is now so holding onto prospects doesn't make any sense.

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