Tuesday, June 11, 2013

Catching up with Danny Rosenbaum

Photo by USA Today
With the Nationals experiencing an inordinate amount of injuries this season, a revolving door of opportunity has opened up for players in their minor league system. Through 62 games in 2013, they have already produced five major league debuts and needed eleven total call-ups.

Specifically with pitching, the Nationals have already needed more reinforcements for their starting rotation than they did all of last season. They have called on veteran Zach Duke out of the bullpen, rookie Nathan Karns from Harrisburg, and are expected to bring up Ross Ohlendorf from Triple-A for Wednesday in Colorado.

Still waiting for his own call-up is Syracuse lefty Danny Rosenbaum, who is as close to realizing his MLB dream as he’s ever been. In his fifth year as part of the Nationals’ minor league system, Rosenbaum is 5-3 with a 3.44 ERA for the Chiefs this season. He has succeeded at each of the Nats’ affiliates with a career 2.91 ERA in the minors.

Knowing it could happen any day now, Rosenbaum is trying to focus on the task at hand and taking care of business at Syracuse. He said it can be distracting to think about it too much and believes it affected his performance last year.

“It’s really good to see all these guys get called up,” he said. “But it’s something that I can’t really stress about or worry about. I think that’s what I did last year and that’s when I started getting in trouble. I was thinking about all the wrong things. I need to stay focused on what we’re doing and just keep pitching.” 

‘Getting in trouble’ as Rosenbaum described it, shows the standard he sets for himself. 2012 was his worst year as a professional, but his ERA was still just 3.94. Compared to his 2.52 mark in 2011 and 2.25 in 2010, and sure, it was worse.            

“Last year I started out good and the second half of the season was absolutely terrible, but I learned a lot from myself,” he said.

“I took a lot from that experience because that was the first time that I really struggled in pro ball. I had to learn how to get past adversity. I didn’t deal with it very well. It’s happened to me this year and I think I’ve handled myself pretty well with it.”

Rosenbaum has enjoyed pitching at the Triple-A level as he is one step away from the majors, but also because of the resources at hand. Veterans Chris Young, Micah Owings, and Ohlendorf have a combined 21 years of MLB experience and are always available to ask advice.

“I enjoy being around a lot of these older guys who have been around the game for a while,” Rosenbaum said. “I’ve learned a lot from them, just talking with them, how to pitch to certain types of hitters and in certain counts. Just getting their perspective on it.”

“We talk about how to pitch certain guys, how to read swings during an at-bat which I had never really done before. They’ve really helped me a lot, especially with the mental part and strategy wise. I really enjoy being around those guys.”

Rosenbaum spent the spring as a member of the Rockies after being claimed in December as part of the Rule 5 Draft. He came close to making the big league club in Colorado, but was returned to the Nats in March.

After letting him go, the Rockies then tried to trade for Rosenbaum to put him back in their minor league system. Nats general manager Mike Rizzo declined the offer and instead welcomed the lefty back as a member of the organization.

“It was definitely disappointing that I didn’t get to make the team. I thought I had a really good spring. But the day that they cut me, the Nationals called me and told me there is a really good opportunity here for me and that they were glad to have me back,” Rosenbaum said.

“I know the Rockies tried to trade for me, but Mike Rizzo said no. That’s a good thing in my eyes, it means they want me back.”

Rosenbaum was reunited with the Nationals, where he feels comfortable. At 25 years old, he has grown a lot in the last five years as part of the organization, along with many of his teammates.

One fellow Nats player in particular, Jeff Kobernus, has followed a similar track to Rosenbaum. The two were both drafted in 2009 and have been teammates at the same minor league levels each of the last four seasons.

Kobernus was called up in late May to make his debut and Rosenbaum was there to experience it. Seeing his friend finally get the call was a special moment he says.

“It’s really cool to be around because you see guys, as soon as they’re told they are in shock. I saw Kobernus, he was told when were in Columbus. Just seeing the expression on his face, it was just priceless. He looked like a little kid on Christmas morning,” he said.

Kobernus getting promoted hit close to home for Rosenbaum who has been around him for half a decade now. It gives him encouragement that maybe he will be next.

“It’s really cool to see those guys, I’m really glad I get to be there with them,” he said. “Just seeing him finally getting his opportunity, which he definitely deserved, it’s a great feeling because I see that it could happen to me soon, too. Seeing all these guys getting moved up and down, you know that you are right there. You’re pretty close.”

Rosenbaum is certainly knocking on the door, but there is no guarantee when his day will come. With the way the Nats have been going with injuries this year though, it could be sooner than he thinks. 

193 comments:

Don said...

I really thought he was going to make the Rocks roster. Nice that the Nats have such depth at SP.

fast eddie said...

From today's WaPo:
--Boz has apparently given up on Haren (5.68ERA in last 7 starts). He says Rizzo must get a big-name starter by the trade deadline
--In the Eckstein article, Eck says basically, "We need to swing at fast balls in the strike zone". Gee, I bet the players wish they'd thought of that.

original Nats Fan said...

well, fast eddie, some of them are swinging at off speed pitches in the dirt or outside the strike zone.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Fast Eddie -

I just finished reading the Box article... It was interesting to say the least... Hit the nail on the head talking about Haren... I hated the signing then and hate it now...

Thought, he was (way) too hard on D Span who has been a great addition to the team, at least I think so...

I dont think anyone thought that the Goon Squad would be as bad or take so much time to get on like they have... But then again, they started last season with almost identical #s but the difference was our SP was much better and we were able to quietly get to 14 - 4...

Its interesting becuz we werent scoring a whole lot in the beginning of last season but we were finding a way to win...

We need to get healthy and in a groove. I think the moves that Rizzo/DJ have made/are making are a good step in the right direction... I do hope they do something before the trade deadline (can we trade Haren to Philly for Lee - yeah I said that)

NCNatsie said...

How does it work contractually when a minor leaguer gets called up? Do they get a raise?

Water23 said...

I sense he might be making a roster in July/August. But, I methinks, it will be with another team as he will be a piece in a trade.

Speaking of trading, I went to the ChalkTalk w/Davey and Mike and I took away a few things. 1) They are great poker players. The crowd and hosts were restless with the Nats roster and brought up HRod, Duke, Espy etc and the Davey and Mike smiled and pleasantly said this and that. Little did the crowd know but every move that was requested, discussed, cajoled was already in the works or done. One thing that did concern me was that Rizzo said he would only do moves that made sense for the present and would not constrict their future. Although, I generally agree with this philosophy (Haren vs Ejax is a good example) there is a point in a teams development cycle when sacrificing the future for the present is appropriate.

Has the window of opportunity changed enough that the development plans need to be modified?

Nats 128 said...

From Boswell Q&A

Q: Rizzo's job this year.
Davey hasn't been to shy about the bullpen mess he got in the spring. Rizzo made a lot of wrong calls this year from Haren's value, to no Left, to Duke over Gorzo etc. Davey had taken some heat for the surprisingly bad start but Rizzo should take some lumps too. The almost wholesale turnover of bench/relievers is an indication that the GM didn't have a good offseason. Is this crimping Rizzo's long-term contract talks?
– June 10, 2013 11:10 AM Permalink

A:
Thomas Boswell :
Rizzo needs to take some lumps, too.

Haren looks like a bust. Maybe that changes. But I see no hints of it. He escaped in Baltimore because everybody caught the early-inning rockets he gave up. Soriano was an A+. He's saved the bullpen and looks like he's got two years of good closing in him. But the no short LHed relievers just looks like a bad decision.

Davey pretty good at nailing himself. It's better to do it to yourself before others get the chance. Because they WILL figure out what you're screwed up.

– June 10, 2013 12:45 PM

Nats 128 said...

I thought Boz loved the Haren signing and the non-moves and letting Lannan walk for nothing.

Where is the link to the article you refer to about Span.

Nats 128 said...

NCNatsie, most get a raise unless you are Anthony Rendon and on a deal that pays more than the MLB minimum.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Water - My CFO is good friends with 1 of the organizers... Apparently, DJ told the organizer *off-record* that there were moves that were going to be made... And we see what happened...

I think I am 1 of the only one(s) who supports when the moves were made... We couldnt just bring everyone up and send everyone back down and then to have the injuries... I figured something would happen once Werth came back as the line up was really suffering without both Werth and Harper...

I am so totally ready for a healthy squad...

Nats 128 said...

"Water23 said...

Speaking of trading, I went to the ChalkTalk w/Davey and Mike and I took away a few things. 1) They are great poker players. The crowd and hosts were restless with the Nats roster and brought up HRod, Duke, Espy etc and the Davey and Mike smiled and pleasantly said this and that."

Thats just great and what took them so long. Did anyone mention in the "HRod, Duke, Espy etc" when they will get rid of the "etc" which should be Chad Tracey.

Hard to believe for a championship team all the issues that were carried over from last year. Im not upset with Duke however how do you bring Tracey and HRod foward and no proven veteran in camp to compete with Espinosa once Rizzo knew about the shoulder injury. Then you take a chancer on Haren who was a back injury patient in 2012 as if you didnt learn from Sean Burnetts back problems.

Bozwell was much to kind in his assessment of Rizzo.

Water23 said...

MrsB,

Agreed on getting healthy. Here's hoping that will bring back the winning ways.

It was clear that someone had talked to the organizers because Lurch and Danny jumped out early to provide cover for Davey and Mike. It was a fun event.

A DC Wonk said...

Although, I generally agree with this philosophy (Haren vs Ejax is a good example) there is a point in a teams development cycle when sacrificing the future for the present is appropriate.

I think Rizzo was speaking in shorthand in a way. Trading three good prospects for Gio, for example, was a good example of trading away some future in order to get some present (and took some real cojones to do).

But I think Rizzo, properly, won't completely mortgage the future for the now. Remember, the playoffs are always a crap shoot, and the best team doesn't always win. It makes no sense to work at being the best team for *this year*, if you are saddled with bad teams and a wasted payroll for years to come. (Bobby Bonilla is being paid $1.19 million a year until he's age 72. No, I'm not kidding).

In the Gio case, Gio's a young pitcher who might be around a while, so it wasn't a case of trading future for now -- it was a case of trading significant potential future for some now and some future (if that makes sense).

A DC Wonk said...

So -- folks -- why Ohlendorf over Rosenbaum next week?

Please discuss:

sjm308 said...

What I love about baseball is it does let you do the "what if" a bunch. If you look at all the options Rizzo had for that 5th starter and how they have done so far this season, I see no one jumping out. Lannan has been hurt for most of the season. Jackson is having a very difficult year, Loshe has, I think one win and it goes on and on. At least with Haren we are done after this year. He is not pitching well but the other choices Rizzo might have opted for have not panned out. I am sure someone here will give me an example of a good signing (maybe Liriano but that would have been a gamble and he was definitely hurt at the beginning of the year.)

I agree with Mrs B that Span has brought enough to the table so far that I am pleased with that signing. surprised that Boz was a little tough on him.

This has probably already been discussed as I have been dealing with some personal issues in the family and not had time to read. When Espinosa is deemed ready to return, and I think they will try and get him back up. You have to let Tracy go. This would give you two switch hitters on the bench and additional speed with Kobernus & Bernadina. I realize someone else gets sent down when Harper is ready and that will probably be Kobernus but Lombo can handle the outfield.

Like Emdash mentioned way back, I have had to adjust expectations and now have a new goal of getting close to 90 wins and slowly but surely picking off the teams ahead of us. First up is Colorado. If we can win 2 of 3 we will just be a game back of them. Just keep winning each series lads and things will take care of themselves.

Go Nats!!

Eric said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eric said...

"I agree with Mrs B that Span has brought enough to the table so far that I am pleased with that signing. surprised that Boz was a little tough on him."

Yeah, color me stunned on that one, especially the way he framed Desi's quote.

I agree about Tracy; I think it's time to move on.

I thought Davey's comments on the timing of Moore's demotion were interesting. He said something about how they were going to do it sooner, but all the injuries kind of forced their hands. I think in light of all the players going on the DL they decided to pin their hopes on known entities rather than start the process of breaking in n00bs.

But, who knows...

NatsJack in Florida said...

Why Ohlendorf over Rosenbaum in Colorado?

It's the "in Colorado" thing. Would you want your ML debut in Coors Field on an 85 - 90 degree nite?

A DC Wonk said...

NJ, do you think if this week the Nats were playing somewhere else, Rosenbaum would have gotten the call?

NatsJack in Florida said...

Oh...sorry...I see the "next week". Maybe it is Rosenbaum depending on how Ohlendorf fares in Colorado. But Ohlendorf has been pretty solid his last 2 starts.

NatsJack in Florida said...

I doubt it. Both Cleveland and Philly would offer the same drawback as Coors and Ohlendorf needs his chance. Better to go with experience until it proves unsuccessful.

fast eddie said...

Last month the Braves' announcers were suggesting that they trade for Cliff Lee before the deadline, assuming the Phils are out of it.
Since then, Minor and Teheran have come on strong to solidify their rotation.
Maybe Rizzo could pursue Lee to replace Haren?

Joe Seamhead said...

308, good post. I agree with virtually everything except Lombo in the OF.I tink we've been fortunate to get by with him out there. There was a reason Davey told Lombo to put his outfielder's mitt away last year. To me, it's inevitable that his arm will be exploited in a crucial situation. Some of the other criticism of Lombo yesterday was justified to a point. Folks dwelled on his low BA and OBP, but his 3 sac flies and 2 sac bunts went unmentioned. Kobernus hasn't had much chance to show what he's got. For every scouting report that says that he plays a plus 2B, there's another one that says otherwise. He seems to track the ball OK in the OF, but the book says his arm is average, at best. He may be the long range utility guy.Maybe NatsJack has seen more of him and could chime in?
I also feel Boz was unduly harsh on Rizzo regarding Span, and by extension on Denard himself. Span has played a great CF. I can't imaging how much higher the team ERA would be without his defense .Yes, his OBP is disappointing, but I wonder how much of an effect having the revolving door of guys hitting in the 2 hole has had an effect on his stats versus if Werth and/or Harper was in the second spot?

Joe Seamhead said...

fast eddie, Teheran had a rough time with the Pads last night. I just can't see the Phills dealing Lee to someone in the division.

Tcostant said...

This is encouraging enough that between Rosenbaum and Karns that we won’t need to spend $13M on a 5th starter next year. Just let them fight it out for the 5th spot next spring and save the money for Det and Zimmermann’s increases.

NatsLady said...

I think everyone knew the Haren signing was a risk, but there were not good alternatives. In April I recall there was a feeling he would be given until late May or early June to get his "act" together. Coors is a difficult place for a contact pitcher but if he can give up four or fewer runs tonight, that leaves us still in the ballgame, unlike chilly spring nights when the ball goes nowhere.

You can bash Rizzo and the bench all you want, but basically we are sitting with 2/5 starters and best position player on the DL, plus FoF with a chancy shoulder and Werth gone for a month, not to mention a sinker-ball guy who would come in REALLY handy in Colorado.

To me, that's 6-7 wins right there and if a couple of those had come versus Atlanta, we would be exactly where everyone predicted, neck-to-neck for the division. You can say, well, Atlanta's got problems and underperformers also, but what they DON'T have is starters down, and they have Beachy coming back.

This is me going into minds--but I feel the players, Davey (and maybe Rizzo) spent a little too long "waiting" for Werth to come back, and the team to get healthy. They looked at the record of losses without Harper/Werth and said, "we'll turn it around when they get back." Then LaRoche embarrassed himself with errors, and said, "That's enough."

This week showed you can't wait, but you CAN make do with what you have, albeit against weak teams.

In order to have had Abad (or another "situational lefty") in the bullpen from Day One you would have had to sacrifice Henry. Given his talent and the fact that he did have elbow problems, they probably agreed to wait a couple of months, maybe less. Davey can complain all he wants, but did he say in the winter, forget Henry, gimme J.P. Howell?

Caps Fan said...

The Phillies are not going to trade Cliff Lee within the division. Even if they wanted to, neither the Nats or the Braves are going to trade their prospects to a division competitor.

JD said...


Tcostant,

I agree with your general premise but not your conclusion. I am not sure what in Karns starts has led you to believe that he can be a reliable major league starter (for that matter he hasn't dominated at any level higher than A+). From everything I read about Rosenbaum; if he makes it to the majors he tops out as a John Lannan clone, not sure that's the answer either.

I agree that Haren has been very hit and miss this year but I think that judging the signing now is unfair because Haren's history suggested that he could be a very good starter and he finished last year very strongly.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

I haven't read Boswell yet on Span but my analysis on him hasn't changed.

1) Provide great defense at the wall to cut down on XBH ☑

2) Provide a high OBP above a minimum of .340 since power will be sacrificed ☒


3) Provide havoc on the basepaths and steal bases ☒


1 out of 3 isn't good. Still time to improve the OBP and take some walks and Span needs to stop elevating balls as his popups to the outfield aren't going out for HRs. His baserunning is worse than the last speedster OF and he wasn't good either.

mick said...

if we had simply re signed Lannan, it may have been good enough, not sure how Lannan's contract was written that made it difficult to re sign him?

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Idk if it is that EJax is bad... But he had/has no support in Chicago... Did he deserve that ridiculous contract - I didnt think so... But I still will take him over Haren...

mick said...

law of averages say Haren's next start should be OK, if one looks at his pattern this year. although the Rockies, and the high altitude.. could get him at 20 HR's, who knows..

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Joe Seamhead said...
fast eddie, Teheran had a rough time with the Pads last night. I just can't see the Phills dealing Lee to someone in the division.


Beachy is coming back soon from his TJ. You never know what you are going to get when a pitcher returns from TJ but I think he can be an upgrade over Teheran.

The Braves will be buyers at the trade deadline for top bullpen arms.

mick said...

Haren's contract was 2 mil more than Ejac

MrsB loves the Nats said...

And Eric I totally agree with your post @ 9:25... The timing of the moves wasnt what we expected wanted becuz we had some major bats on the DL... Once Werth came back, things settled down some and DJ knew that he could rely on an OF of Shark/Lombo (who I hate in the OF), Span and Werth....

I think it is an encouraging sign that the moves were made...

And NL - Spot on about our injuries and the Braves... We really need to get healthy and go on a tear...

Is it asking too much to hope (and wish) that we go on a 6 - 3 run during this road trip....

NatsLady said...

I honestly don't think Davey cared about the bullpen because he figured with the 2012 offense and rotation a situational lefty would not be a major issue, and if you recall he was happily surprised about Soriano.

Now that the rotation is injured and the offense has disappeared, he wants a better mix in the bullpen. Fine. But he didn't say that in the winter and I very much doubt he even thought about it. He gets on my nerves (I've said that before); he's worse than fans with his after-the-fact-GM act.

JD said...


NatsLady,

I agree with almost everything you say. I think Boz's criticism is rewriting history and that's BS. The moves made sense at the time.

Haren and Lohse were the choices this off season and Lohse wanted multi years and frankly I don't think he's an upgrade over Haren.

As far as bullpen goes the trick is you don't over pay for past performance, you try to 'predict' who the next Burnett and Gonzo will be and at the end of the day it looks like Rizzo has found these guys in Abad and Krol.

I think that the signing of Tracy was probably unnecessary but please, if you think that the 25th man on the roster is the difference between winning or losing I got a bridge for you.

A DC Wonk said...

Tidbits of the morn'

- Tigers' Doug Fister's stats since May 25: 4 starts, ERA of 2.67, 26 K's, 3 BB's -- and an 0-3 record.

- Braves, despite an NL-best .758 OPS against left-handed pitching, are just 6-20 when a lefty starts against them

- This is the first season of his 14-year career Juan Pierre hit a home run before hitting a triple.

- Adam Dunn hit an infield single

- Alex Cobb had allowed just seven runs in his previous five starts, then surrendered six runs in the first inning of last night's game -- and left the game with a no decision.

- That Red Sox/Rays game (that Cobb started) was quite a game. At one point in the 10th inning the Red Sox had a win expectancy of 93.5% (they were up by two in the 10th inning) and at another point the Rays had a win expectancy of 93.1%. The Rays scored two in the bottom of the 10th to tie -- and had bases loaded nobody out and Evan Longoria up. He hit into a 5-2-3 DP, and the next guy grounded out. Red Sox scored 2 in the top of the 14th to win.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Haren has been a disappointment but you could say that 50% of his starts have been OK and the other 50% horrific -- and that the problem has been keeping his pitches down. Partly that's the function of his velo but when he's right he gets a lot of K's -- and no pitcher, even Strasburg, can be regularly up in the zone without a lot of big flies.

So there's reason to believe/hope that Harren will get himself righted in the second half of the season the way he did last year.

No matter how much Boz wants it I don't see them trading for a "quality" starting pitcher at the deadline. Partly because there are very few appealing candidates, even as rentals, and partly because their farm system doesn't have many major-league ready prospects.

Pete said...

Any thoughts on the likelihood of grabbing any of these pitchers?

(1) Gallardo
(2) Nolasco
(3) Feldman

A DC Wonk said...

he's worse than fans with his after-the-fact-GM act.

Not exactly. Fans wanted to get rid of ALR after a few weeks this year; wanted to re-sign Adam Dunn; wanted to dump Desmond because he's never learn to hit _or_ field; etc etc etc.

A team can only focus on and act on a limited number of needs in the offseason. The Nats did pick up Soriano, and also focused on trying to find a 5th starter (and had to wait forever to resolve the Morse/ALR dilemma). Those were reasonable choices at the time.

And, finally, remember: our relief pitching is not really the problem (or, only a small part). The main problems are (in order?): (a) injuries; (b) weak hitting (in part due to injuries to good hitters, e.g., Harper, Werth, Ramos); (c) weak back of the rotation starting pitching (exacerbated by Stras and Detwiler injuries)

mick said...

I think Boz is spot on...tonight's start is probably Haren's last chance. Let's sat Haren gets rocked... what are Davey 's options until the trade deadline? Assuming Stras and Det are back in the rotation..

1. He could try Stammen as a starter or

2. Go with Karns with Stammen as the long relief if Karns fails

3. Bring up a rookie, who that is, i have no idea

4. Ride out option #2 until trade deadline and get a veteran who may find new life in DC

JD said...


MrsB,

Haren and Ejax were both app. 2 win players last year. In 2011 Haren was a 6 WAR player, EJax 3.5. I don't understand your negativity about the signing.

Now I agree that Haren has been poop this year (so have Ejax and Lohse) but that's re writing history. We didn't know he would be poop before the year started.

The other thing to point out is that in the midst of the poop Haren has also pitched some pretty good games (LA, Baltimore, Philly). He has kind of been the mirror image of EJax from last year.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Mick, I wouldn't take EJax or Haren. The Nats needed a 3.70ish ERA guy as their magic number. They had that guy in John Lannan who they would've had to overpay him $7 million and that's what Rizzo wasn't willing to do.

Does Lannan get injured pitching for the Nats? Who knows but even if you overpay Lannan it's still $6 million less than they paid Haren and that $6 million could have been spent on the FA 2nd baseman who could have been brought to camp in case Espinosa's shoulder wasn't 100%. By all feedback I have read is no mention of the shoulder so I guess we assume it's fine and the issues from Opening Day to April 14th was mechanics and approach and batter's own eye, is what is bad.

mick said...

if there is a trade, I would not trade ALR or any other stater, perhaps you deal a prospect along with Espi and Tracy, a 3 for 1 deal

JD said...


Mick,

It ain't gonna happen. Haren is in the rotation for the duration. The option you mention don't work because:

1) Karns isn't any good (at least yet).
2) Stammen is too important in the pen.

Muddy said...

Not to be too critical of a 98-win team but, among the stuff the Nats say/do that's hard to understand is Davey's comment about Ty Moore coming back soon. I don't understand where he'd play. Davey didn't say/wasn't asked by our team of journalists where he'd play. That's the problem. He needs to play every day. The Nats say "he's an every day player" and needs to play every day -- and he's not getting any younger at 26. The Nats don't have a position for him. Where will he play if he comes back soon or even sometime in 2013? Back on the bench? That does him no good and probably does harm, but maybe he can tolerate it for another month in 2013. But what's the plan for him? Full time 1B in 2015? The Nats have first baseman coming out their ears: LAR, Moore, Marrero, Matt Skole and probably Zimmerman should play there; and they've draft more last week. Maybe it's just Davey being Davey -- say positive things to the guys even if it doesn't make sense. And Rizzo isn't explaining his thinking.

mick said...

Ghost... I was not suggesting taking Ejac over Haren, I was just pointing out that Haren's deal was 2 million more.

I appreciate the info on Lannan's contract as I never really understood the parameters of it, it is still confusing.

Theophilus T. S. said...

To: TCosant and Nats Lady
Cc: Everyone else

The Nats aren't going to give up on $13MM in June no matter how disappointing.

Neither Karns nor Rosenbaum will be in next year's rotation. Karns isn't anywhere near ready (sort of a lesser Brad Peacock) and Rosenbaum is a lesser Lannan. There are places for Rosenbaum in the majors but not on a team that fancies itself a contender (with the exception of Baltimore, which isn't a compliment to either him or the team).

Next year's fifth starter will be another rental, tho' possibly one less expensive than either Haren or Jackson.

Starting in '15 it's possible to imagine Solis, Karns or even Purke in that slot.

Speaking about future starting pitchers, someone said yesterday they had heard that Garcia had a setback. Anything more on that?

mick said...

JD

your probably right, but then why is everyone speculating on a trade?

mick said...

question.. could Haren be part of a deal, assuming that team will pay his contract? is that possible?

JD said...


Ghost,

Rizzo has given up on Lannan a year ago. Like it or not he doesn't like him in his rotation. The other point to make if you want to be fair is that up until 2012 Lannan can't hold a candle to Haren, not even in the same area code. Is Haren done? I don't think so but who knows?

mick said...

now remember, Haren was slotted as the 4th pitcher back in April, not the 5th

MrsB loves the Nats said...

JD - I was in the group who wanted the Nats to stick to what they know instead of relying on the 'what-if' with Haren...

I dont see where and how Haren looked like he came back to form...

I remember EJax being better than Haren at this point too...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Pete said...
Any thoughts on the likelihood of grabbing any of these pitchers?

(1) Gallardo
(2) Nolasco
(3) Feldman

June 11, 2013 10:13 AM


I don't think the Nats should make a move for a veteran starter as the Nats have a Top 4 and Haren will have to do for a while as the Nats can't afford to let go of any studs in the Minors.

NatsJack in Florida said...

Garcia last pitched 2 innings Saturday nite. Gave up 1 run, 1 hit, walked 2 and struck out 3.

That would preclude him from pitching Sunday and they got rained out last nite.

Haven't heard anything beyond that and the fact that the Nats brass now wants him as a 2 or 3 inning guy out of the bull pen.

NatsLady said...

Theo, and if we have major-league prospects, they will promote them rather than trade them, IMO. The best you can hope for is a team wanting a salary dump, and Uncle Ted opening his wallet. But the type guy you'll get in that case might not be better than Haren.

Span's fielding is exemplary and takes the pressure not only off Harper but also off Werth, who doesn't have to play CF and doesn't have to cover as much ground in RF.

Span has the highest contract rate on the team, by far--91%. and he doesn't swing excessively at pitches outside the zone (24.2%, tied for best on the team with ALR), so there's nothing wrong with his batting eye. It's hard to take walks if they throw strikes at you. He's as fast as Roger, and that's why you get the triples--and the triples become runs.

mick said...

I remember EJax being better than Haren at this point too...


very true, remember, he had a 9 inning complete game. however, it was at this point Ejac began to slide down hill

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Mick - yeah i had a problem with Haren being a 4... But between the 2 of Haren vs EJax - I will take EJAx...

Now if you throw Lannan in, who I figured they were nt going to even attempt to keep which seemingly was what they did, I would have taken Lannan out of the 3...

jeeves said...

The kind of trade that Rizzo could make might be with Houston for Lucas Harrell. The nats should have some attractive chips to deal tha te astros might want.

mick said...

MrsB loves the Nats I agree with you

mick said...

Lucas Harrell......... very interesting!

bowdenball said...


Ghost Of Steve M. said...

"Mick, I wouldn't take EJax or Haren. The Nats needed a 3.70ish ERA guy as their magic number. They had that guy in John Lannan who they would've had to overpay him $7 million and that's what Rizzo wasn't willing to do."

1. John Lannan is not a 3.70ish ERA guy. He had one season at that number, every other season over it, sometimes significantly. That season was 2011- and if we're gonna go back there for our information we should go back to Haren's 2011 too, to be fair.

30 GMs out of 30 would have told you they prefer Haren to Lannan in the offseason. And by the way, they were right, Haren has been better than Lannan this season.

2. Not really directed at GoSM's post, but I don't understand why fans care about Haren's salary. It's a one year deal. They could be paying him double what he's making and it still wouldn't matter. It comes off the books at the end of the year and won't impact their ability to sign free agents in the future one bit. No such thing as a bad one year deal. Why are we comparing him to other players and their salaries?

JD said...


I haven't heard about Garcia's setback. That's disheartening. I did read somewhere that Solis was back on the DL. My goodness, the guy just came back from TJ a couple of weeks ago and was pitching well.

Also, there are a couple of guys in the minors who are pitching lights out:

1) Taylor Jordan 1.24 ERA in Potomac and 0.84 in Harrisburg. Only 1 HR in 65 innings.

2) Blake Schwartz 1.26 ERA in Potomac only 2 HR's in 62 innings.

3) Robby Ray 2.32 ERA in Potomac (only 21 years old).

A.J Cole is still a top notch prospect and is also 21.

Matt Purke is coming back from an injury but has 14 strike outs in 8 innings at Hagerstown and he should be moving up soon.

Pete said...

Nationals #5 next year is an in-organization guy. Here's hoping Purke has a fast rise through the system, him and Rendon where supposed to 1-2 of the college class before both got injured.

mick said...

bowdenball

would those GM's taken Haren over Ejac at 2 million more? I think that that is a fair question and that is where the salary comes in

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

JD said...

Ghost,

Rizzo has given up on Lannan a year ago. Like it or not he doesn't like him in his rotation. The other point to make if you want to be fair is that up until 2012 Lannan can't hold a candle to Haren, not even in the same area code. Is Haren done? I don't think so but who knows?

June 11, 2013 10:21 AM


In 2010 I wasn't a Lannan or Detwiler fan. Both guys were doing nothing to improve. Lannan comes into camp in 2011 like a new guy and had a good 2011.

The team made a choice to go in a different direction with Detwiler who was controllable going forward. It made sense and it worked out well, but Lannan has stepped up in big moments for this team and was under team control for 2013.

Rizzo made his choice. I would have kept Lannan and used those funds for a 2nd baseman and big lefty bat.

NatsLady said...

There will be a big market for Harell (and also for Bud Norris, if the Stros go that way). I don't see Rizzo having the chips to bid that high. You expect/hope for your No. 5 guy (Haren--and he is that, never mind who started when in April, that was match-ups) to go .500. Haren (like Tracy) is not the cause of where we are, and if Detwiler and Stras were healthy we wouldn't care.

Again, it's not the money. It could be $2MM or $13MM--they are not going to throw the season down the tubs over that. Haren was signed to a one-year deal exactly so if he didn't work out he could be traded or cut.

However, I don't think we are at that point, period. We are already scrambling with Karns/Ohlendorf etc. to cover for Det and Stras. The LAST thing you need is to get rid of a guy who, at least 50% of the time, IS a major-league starter.

mick said...

I guess its crapshoot for the 5th pitcher

JD said...


NatsJack,

Do you know what happened to Solis? why back on the DL so soon?

bowdenball said...

Lucas Harrell hasn't even reached arbitration yet. The Astros aren't going to deal him unless the Nats hand over a package that includes almost all of their better prospects. I hope nobody wants the Nats to do that.

Assuming you all want to keep Rendon, the Nats just don't have the prospects to trade for a quzlity starter. Remember, other teams want to bolster their starting pitching too. You don't just have to make a fair offer, you have to beat other teams' offers.

JD said...


Mrs B.

Why exactly were you against the Haren signing in the off season? I don't get it. This was a top of the rotation pitcher for many years and he's not old or injured.

JD said...


Bowdenball,

Exactly. Especially since Baltimore, Boston and Pittsburgh to name 3 are in the hunt and in dire need to upgrade their rotations.

bowdenball said...

mick said...

"would those GM's taken Haren over Ejac at 2 million more? I think that that is a fair question and that is where the salary comes in"

I don't understand the purpose of that question. Do you think Jackson would have accepted such an offer if the Nats made it? I SERIOUSLY doubt it, considering he dropped the agent who pigeonholed him into accepting it after the 2011 season, and then subsequently signed a 4 year $52 million deal after the 2012 season.

Eric said...

"However, I don't think we are at that point, period. We are already scrambling with Karns/Ohlendorf etc. to cover for Det and Stras. The LAST thing you need is to get rid of a guy who, at least 50% of the time, IS a major-league starter."

I agree. He's had some really good outings. If our offense had been producing all this time, Haren would be far more than adequate. We've lost a number of games that involved a quality start or better by I think every pitcher, including Haren.

Eric said...

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Haren functions like the DeRosa of the pitching staff. His attitude is fantastic, especially after a loss.

NatsJack in Florida said...

JD....re: Solis....no but it can't be good. He certainly hasn't been rushed back and spent alot of time in extended ST before being activated.

NatsLady said...

JD, if Garrett Cole is a flop--or even if he isn't, but just has some rookie stumbles--Pittsburgh will bid high on Harrell. I would have said Cleveland, too, but it looks like they are going on the same sort of season-killer losing streak as last year. Let's hope we can help their dive over the weekend.

Wow, Milwaukee's rotation looks bad, no wonder Gorzy started a game.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Bowdenball, again, we can agree to disagree. Lannan had a 3.70 ERA in 2011 in 33 starts.

There isn't a sample size large enough to predict what 2012 was going to be but the way he handled Atlanta and every other team except the blip in the LA game showed me had improved over 2011 into 2012. If you remove the LA game on Sept 19th which was his only bad start, he gave up 9 runs over 29 innings which is a 2.79 ERA.

I saw a pitcher improving who could help this team. He is never going to be an ace but he is what he is which is a good #4 pitcher who pitches well against the Braves and that's what the Nats needed.

NatsLady said...

As for Stammen, that's been discussed several times. He's more valuable to the team making three appearances in a week than one, especially as he is unlikely to go more than 4-5 innings. He pitched brilliantly for four innings when Stras went down, but it seems to have taken a toll.

What we needed was for Zach Duke to step up as the spot starter, and he didn't. He supposedly "couldn't adjust" to the bullpen, but when he had plenty of warning and time to prepare for the start, he didn't perform well, and ended up being a drain on the bullpen himself.

UnkyD said...

"Nats should have kept 1 of the 3, either Burnett,Gonzo or Gorzo."

"if we had simply re signed Lannan, it may have been good enough, not sure how Lannan's contract was written that made it difficult to re sign him?"

"Haren's contract was 2 mil more than Ejac"
--------------------------
Gosh, Mick... Are you gonna spend the rest if the summer wishing we still had a handful of players who have been more or less worthless, this year? Gorzo is playing well, but would you have chosen HIM, of the three? LannAn is a horse, but he's hurt.... And Ejax is in the first year of a 4 year, 52 million deal?! Really? You'd rather have don that than chance a year on Haren? Searching for you logic, on any of these statements....

MrsB loves the Nats said...

JD -

For me Haren has too many unknowns... I liked EJax and wanted to keep him... Nats didnt even seem interested in keeping Lannan.... I actually liked Loshe but I never liked Haren... and I havent seen anything to change my mind...

With that said, I hope a decent/good version shows up tonight....

NatsLady said...

Oh, and watch out for this de La Rosa. After years bouncing around (Brewers, Royals, Rox), up and down from the minors, he seems to have "found" himself this season. He's a lefty and quite erratic, but when he's on, he can pitch very well.

JaneB said...

I will admit that, when DSpan hit the triple Sunday, I said out loud, "ok. You can stay." I heard from a friend he had the same reaction. I think we all tuned into that moment where a guy did damage against a team he was sorry to leave.

I don't think the Nats would have kept John Lannan even if his ERA was below 1. There was bad blood between them from the arbitration period of early 2012.

One thing we can see about Haren is that he is a stand up guy. Cares. Works hard. No BS. Accountable. When we had Jason Marquis and he was not what we'd hoped (eh! Flash backs to that game where he didn't get out of the first inning and they batted around and got, like 57 runs before we even came up to bat), he never stood there and said, "yep. I blew it. He's what I did wrong." We have him through the year, I predict.

NatsLady said...

I never liked Marquis until last night. :)

But you have to admit he's had his share of unforeseen injuries and come back from them.

NatsLady said...

Chien-Ming Wang is starting for the Jays tonight.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

NL - I had thought I had heard that Wang had signed with the Jays...

I had such high hopes for the Jays...

bowdenball said...

GoSM-

Yes, if you're going to remove starts from a pitcher's season before giving his stats, and say things like "there isn't a sample size large enough to predict what 2012 was going to be" when he made 24 starts at AAA Syracuse in 2012 and sported a 1.44 WHIP and a 4.30 ERA at the lower level, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

He was bad in 2012. Even at the major league level he had only 17Ks and 14BBs. He was lucky that all but one start came against terrible offenses, and lucky to be backed by good defense, and lucky that the team never called on him to pitch deep into a game after that one July miracle against the Braves. And obviously he was nothing special in AAA where he spent the bulk of the season. Choosing to trust a rotation spot to such a player when a guy like Haren can be had on a one year deal would have been a terrible move no matter how it eventually turned out.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Dan Haren has been burned most often on his cutter as he throws that most times in the hitting zone and hopes for weak contact. Hope? I would only use that pitch in the top or extreme bottom of the zone and use the 2-seamer, changeup and curveball and hope that splitter works.

If Haren hasn't noticed it's been his cutter not cutting that has been his big problem. When the cutter doesn't cut it's a BP fastball.

JD said...


Ghost,

So if you want to look at 2011 then here are Haren's numbers:

16 - 10 3.17 ERA (in the AL) 7 to 1.2 K to BB and 6.2 WAR.

Lannan 10 - 13 3.70 ERA 5.2 - 3.7 K to BB and and 1.1 WAR.

Not in the same area code.

Section 222 said...

Good comments this morning. I agree that Boz is off the rails on this one. Haren isn't our pitching problem. Having to start lousy former 2009 Pirates and a nice prospect who really isn't ready for the bigs is.

I was the one who asked about Garcia yesterday having read the following on the Nationals Baseball blog:

"On Cristian Garcia being injured : TOLD YOU. Please. If this guy completes more than one season as a major league starter before he's done I'll be shocked."

So I apologize if it was a false alarm. It would be very nice to have him back. Is there a timetable on Mattheus? I think Erik Davis is a year away from being reliable at this level.

Ghost et al., I think you're a little tough on Span. He made some baserunning boo boos early on, but lately he's been fine. Not stealing bases, but no big disasters either. His fielding has been superb, and he's had some clutch hits. I still think the move made sense and is working out more or less as planned. And we have him for three more years after this one, which never could have been said about Morse.

original Nats Fan said...

Ejax wanted a multi-year deal, which he got. I don't think he pitched well enough last year to get such a deal from the Nats. The money would be better spent on extending JZim. Did you like his good Ejax/bad Ejax routine better than Haren's? Lannan might not have signed with the Nats, even if offered a deal. He wasn't real happy with the send down to AAA. I like Haren and hope he can get his mechanics straight, starting tonight.

JD said...


Mrs. B

I don't want to be pushy but what unknowns? there were rumors of back problems but he's been healthy this year. All of the sudden we miss EJax? as I recall he was consistently inconsistent and Lannan I don't even want to rehash. I think that's been covered.

JD said...


Sec 222 and NL,

Span's OBP is 30 points lower than his career avg. I happen to agree that he needs to walk more. I don't buy that every pitcher has pin point control, Span is at something like 80 at bats in a row without a walk.

In general I think that the Nats hitters make too many outs early in the count and that speaks (IMO) to Davie and Eck's philosophy on hitting (very aggressive). I thought that the game Saturday was lost exactly because the Twins took walks and we didn't.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

bowdenball, if you were worried about Lannan's AAA stats then there's no hope for you.

I saw a crafty lefty who knew his limitations and was always smart enough to get the job done.

That 2012 sample size was skewed by one lousy 3 inning start. The other 5 starts were one of the reasons the Nats finished where they did. July 21st 2012, remember that.

NatsLady said...

Ejax was a puzzlement to me. Acknowledge that he was a great teammate, and I won't forget he was first in the dugout to tell Clip to buck up when Clip blew a beautiful start.

But he (EJax) would have been on the postgame roster even if Stras had been (Detwiler to the bullpen, I assume) and he did not come through, either in his start or in his relief appearance. He was the same in St. Louis and just about every other place he's been--a puzzlement. You see him pitch those great games, dominating games, you see him get past bad first innings and stay in to save the bullpen, but he put the team in a deep hole so many times....

mick said...

UnkyD

you are way off about my post...I am simply responding and asking questions to other posters and in fact, I was NOT the one who began the Haren issue in here. I even said....the 5th starter is a crap shoot...what is off about my comments compared to ANYONE else who has commented on Haren, Ejac or Lannan

i mean seriously... sick and tired of being singled out and the next time it happens, I will email Mark

SCNatsFan said...

Is Garcia injured or has had a setback?

And Solis, from what I see, is on the 7 day DL so lets hope it is for his wisdom tooth.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

And for the Jason Marquis haters out there who can't forgive his 2010 injury, that pitcher led the Nats in 2011 where the Nats were 15-8 in his starts. Jason Marquis in his career is a Winner. Whether you want to joke about him or not he brings the best he has and I'd take him over Haren also.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

No worries JD - I have this same conversation with my uncle all the time...

The huge unknown for me was the health/back issue... Big thing for a pitcher... Also (to me) there was nothing that Haren did in to warrant us wanting to sign him... and then the ST, Im not even going to talk about that... wait, yes I am... and how he was so bad and then had the nerve to say that he needed to be on a set schedule and all the other excuses...

Im not one who all of a sudden missed EJax... I posted on the Nats Journal on the WaPo that I would give Haren 5 starts to make me miss EJax... In his first 5 starts, from what I remember, he always seemed to not improve but suck less....

As someone on here the other day so nicely pointed out... I thought that Haren has had 2 good starts, but it is actually 4... Still not good...

If EJax is consistently inconsistent, I guess you can say Haren is mainly poor with dashes/sprinkles of good games...

I thought the Nats should have tried to stay with EJax or gotten Lohse.... Im just not a Dan Haren fan...

We can continue to have this discussion but it will go in circles... Im just not a D Haren fan...

But I do hope he has a good game tonight... as I do with every outing...

Section 222 said...

I liked E-Jax. His attitude was great and his athleticism impressive. I would have been fine with making him a qualifying offer and keeping him around another year if he took it. But he just wasn't good enough to enter the long term deal bidding. Lannan, Shmannan. He was a loyal and serviceable guy whose time ran out when better pitchers developed. I shed no tears over that at all. And I remember very clearly July 21, 2012. But that one game did not justify keeping him in the rotation.

I liked the Haren signing, but we all knew it wasn't a sure thing that he'd regain the form he once had. I just don't think it's fair to consider him a failure.

Anybody see MLB Now yesterday? Verducci filled in for Harold Reynolds. It was fun to have two SABRE guys "debating." Both said the Nats are way underperforming. The Braves are second in the NL in run differential after the ridiculously hot Cardinals. They are going to be very tough to catch.

JaneB said...

Oh, And! Chase! Loved reading the post that was the excuse for our discussion today. I feel like I know more about this kid, and loved reading about what it's like to see someone get called up. Thank you for it.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

JD said...

Sec 222 and NL,

Span's OBP is 30 points lower than his career avg. I happen to agree that he needs to walk more. I don't buy that every pitcher has pin point control, Span is at something like 80 at bats in a row without a walk.

In general I think that the Nats hitters make too many outs early in the count and that speaks (IMO) to Davie and Eck's philosophy on hitting (very aggressive). I thought that the game Saturday was lost exactly because the Twins took walks and we didn't.

June 11, 2013 11:26 AM


Agreed. Span also seems to change his approach later in games and is becoming too predictable. Swinging at good fastballs early in counts on his 1st at-bat and mixing it up some will help him but he gets a lot of 3-2 counts that he could work into walks and seems to focused on hitting his way on and swinging at the high outside pitch that too many times is weakly lined to a LF playing him shallow.

mick said...

UnkyD said...
"Nats should have kept 1 of the 3, either Burnett,Gonzo or Gorzo."

"if we had simply re signed Lannan, it may have been good enough, not sure how Lannan's contract was written that made it difficult to re sign him?"

"Haren's contract was 2 mil more than Ejac"
--------------------------
Gosh, Mick... Are you gonna spend the rest if the summer wishing we still had a handful of players who have been more or less worthless, this year? Gorzo is playing well, but would you have chosen HIM, of the three? LannAn is a horse, but he's hurt.... And Ejax is in the first year of a 4 year, 52 million deal?! Really? You'd rather have don that than chance a year on Haren? Searching for you logic, on any of these statements....

I have major issues with your unprovoked attack so here is a teachable moment on each post you are spinning...

"Nats should have kept 1 of the 3, either Burnett,Gonzo or Gorzo."

I was agreeing with 3 other POSTERS, who stated almost the same thing, yet you go after me

"if we had simply re signed Lannan, it may have been good enough, not sure how Lannan's contract was written that made it difficult to re sign him?

exactly... I state "not sure how Lannan's contrart was written" unlike you, Ghost then explaind it to me.

"Haren's contract was 2 mil more than Ejac"

I was simply stating a fact and was wondering why they paid more, i was not criticizing it, and in fact, if the logic on Lannan was that he cost too much, I would think the extra 2 mil would be a fair question to ask, which is what i stated.

LannAn is a horse, but he's hurt..

Also, you say Lannan is hurt (WAS HE HURT IN THE WINTER??, I think not...the conversation, although hindsight deals with the issue at the time, not now)

Water23 said...

First, I want to go on the record and express my appreciation and admiration for Ejax. He came to the Nats and provided them with a decent 5th Starter. He was a high character guys who was team first all the way (heck, numerous times he sub in a a pinch runner).

But
mick,

You are not comparing apples to apples. Haren is on a one year contract. Ejax would have required a actually got a multi-year deal. So, even though Haren was $2 million more year it would have still been better $3 Million ahead starting next year. If the Nats choose to extend a young pitcher say JZim the $37 million will come in handy.

So, would you take Haren this year for $2 Million extra and use the $37 Million on JZimm for 3 years? I think most teams would.

Heck, JZimm is setting himself up for an AAS in the $13 - $15 Million range.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

NatsLady said...
Ejax was a puzzlement to me.


You, me, Rizzo and most of the baseball world. Too inconsistent and the days of GMs waiting for the star to emerge has been replaced with what is wrong with EJax?

Eric said...

"One thing we can see about Haren is that he is a stand up guy. Cares. Works hard. No BS. Accountable."

Totally agree. What's more, when he does well, he doesn't pat himself on the back, he explains what he did better in the good outing vs. a recent bad outing, talks about how it helps him feel more accepted by the team and how that's important to him, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of why Rizzo gambled on him.

mick said...

Water23

My God... I was just asking about the contract in the same realm with Lannan, which I admitted, did not know about until Ghost explained it.. I did not criticize the Nats.

Let me tell you, these attacks are BS and the cherry picking has got to stop

NatsLady said...

Last year Span saw 3.83 pitches per plate appearance. This year he is seeing 4.03. Yes, his walk rate is down, but I repeat, you can't walk if if they don't throw you balls, all you can do is make contact, which he is doing at a rate of 91%. I agree that every pitcher doesn't have pinpoint control, but I am looking at the results, and the results say that Denard is NOT swinging outside the zone, and that they ARE throwing strikes at him. About the only thing you could ask for him to draw more walks is to foul off more strikes.

His LD% is the highest in his career (23%). It's true that he is striking out more and walking less than his career, but he is in a different league and a different situation than Minn.

And when Harper gets back it only gets worse, because they won't want to walk Span in front of Harper.

Eric said...

"swinging at the high outside pitch that too many times is weakly lined to a LF playing him shallow."

Come to think of it, those bloop outs to LF do happen to Span a LOT.

Still, I like what he brings overall.

bowdenball said...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

"bowdenball, if you were worried about Lannan's AAA stats then there's no hope for you."

I have no idea what this means. Of course I care about his AAA stats. I care about everyone's stats on every level. How well you play baseball tells me something about how good you are at playing baseball.

I like Lannan, he was a key part of my favorite team for many years. But six months ago if you saw a guy who was poised to have a better year than Dan Haren in 2013, you might literally be the only baseball fan in the world who thought that. And by the way- so far you were wrong.

I understand that we disagree about player value and what makes a winning ball club, and that's fine. But certain things I just can't say "agree to disagree." And thinking a pitcher who is sporting a 6.14 ERA and is currently on the DL would have somehow helped this team be in a better place is one of them.

JD said...


Ghost,

Sorry, I am not willing to dismiss Lannan's minor league numbers especially since they are in line with his career major league numbers. I saw him pitch too many times and I saw a pitcher who not only got hit pretty hard but also one whose control was spotty. I am not willing to cherry pick a few good games (1 in particular in a key situation) and declare that he's a decent pitcher. not for me he isn't.

Eric said...

"And when Harper gets back it only gets worse, because they won't want to walk Span in front of Harper."

Couldn't that potentially lead to better pitches to hit?

MrsB loves the Nats said...

I liked Lannan but I didnt cry that he left... I wish him well with Philly...

The only 1 I got really upset about not being re-signed was EJax and Burnett...

And I got extra upset when I heard HRod made the team...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

mick, I like when you stick to the facts. I agree with most of your "non-emotional" posts.

I fell in-line with the Haren signing as the team moved in a different different direction but it goes back to all the other alternatives they had in front of them which they didn't do.

Some people look at Lohse and say he isn't doing it in Milwaukee and I laugh. The guy had a 2.53 ERA going into May 1st and hasn't been getting run support. Since May 1st he has just been so-so. He's had 3 poor starts and 6 excellent starts where he's given up 2 runs or less and just spun that 8 inning gem to beat Philly.

Eric said...

I can't imagine being upset over losing EJax. IMO, at worst, Haren is an even trade with far less six-figure baggage.

NatsLady said...

Davey's philosophy (which you may or may not agree with) is the way you draw walks is proving you can hit strikes, so pitchers have to "expand" the zone. You don't just wait around hoping the pitcher will miss his spots, you take the "aggressive" approach of putting the ball in play--especially if you have speed. Span seems to have bought into that. We shall see.

NatsLady said...

Eric, exactly. I didn't express myself correctly. Span will not be getting balls, he will be getting even MORE strikes. So his best approach is to prove he can get on base by making contact.

mick said...

Ghost, thanks

I did not have a single emotional post on this issue and Unky and Water's post to me made no sense at all

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Eric - Oh yeah, I was upset about not signing EJax... Thought we should have done it... But when I saw that we weren't, I immediately was hoping for Lohse...

But then we signed Haren and I didnt like it... and I havent seen anything from Haren to make me feel differently....

But at this point... I wonder if Harper plays tonight.

JD said...


NL

'About the only thing you could ask for him to draw more walks is to foul off more strikes.'

Bingo.

I don't agree that a player's walks are just a function of the pitcher's desire to throw strikes. BTW as I said I don't think this is just a Span issue, in general we are a hacking team, we don't look for walks or working counts very often.

NatsLady said...

Didn't Lohse get a mult-year deal? Um, yes. (Three years). That is what the Nats would have had to offer, same for E-Jax. Rizzo did not want to go in that direction with Stras/Det/Gio/JZ still under team control for those years. So you need to look around at who was available for a one-year deal. Oh, that was Dan Haren.

Eric said...

I picked up on that, NatsLady. My comment was pivoting off of that to Ghost's point that Span often bloops to LF for an out. I'm kinda wondering if those are often borderline pitches that have him in protect mode. With Harper behind him, maybe he'll start seeing less of that kind of nibbling and will see those borderline pitches come in a little closer.

NatsLady said...

JD, I will see if I can find Span's foul ball rate. I can find it for pitcher's but haven't seen it for batters (other than pitches/plate appearance). Of course we know Werth sees (or fouls off) a lot of pitches as does LaRoche.

Eric said...

>But at this point... I wonder if Harper plays tonight.

Say what?!? Is that commentary on mystifying decisions by management, or did you read something implying that possibility?

mick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mick said...

this particular blog is about Danny Rosenbaum...speaking of him, would it hurt to bring him up?

NatsLady said...

>BTW as I said I don't think this is just a Span issue, in general we are a hacking team, we don't look for walks or working counts very often.

JD, that comes directly from Davey (presumably implemented by Eck). You can like it or not like it, but it's not an accident.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

I thought I heard that on the radio this morning... but then again my neice was screaming for me to turn the music back on and not listen to boring baseball talk...

mick said...

Eric said...
>But at this point... I wonder if Harper plays tonight.

what was Dr Andrews diagnosis? Is he 100%?

MrsB loves the Nats said...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ Mick... I was just sitting here thinking... wait, why are we talking about Haren, Lannan and EJax... I had to go up to the top of the thread and see what the topic was... lol....

Eric said...

That would be awesome, MrsB, assuming he's actually good to go!

mick said...

MrsB loves the Nats

dittos

JD said...


Ghost,

So your analysis of Lohse's performance goes something like:

' if you take away all his bad games he's doing great'.

OK then.

Eric said...

mick - just to clarify, I was quoting MrsB re: Harper playing tonight...

I have no idea what Andrews' diagnosis was...if he's playing tonight, that would strike me as some very tricksy maneuvering...

Maybe it will be coupled with some send downs that they don't want to tip off? They were mum to the point of lying about the send downs that coincided with Werth coming back.

mick said...

Eric... interesting

thanks

MrsB loves the Nats said...

I dont know for sure though... I heard them say something about the lines of Harper will be joining the team ________

I thought I heard in Colorado but Im not entirely sure...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

JD said...

Ghost,

Sorry, I am not willing to dismiss Lannan's minor league numbers especially since they are in line with his career major league numbers. I saw him pitch too many times and I saw a pitcher who not only got hit pretty hard but also one whose control was spotty. I am not willing to cherry pick a few good games (1 in particular in a key situation) and declare that he's a decent pitcher. not for me he isn't.

June 11, 2013 11:49 AM


It's your perogative. I don't really care about the MiLB starts because I knew what Lannan was in 2011 and there was no expectation that he had regressed. I saw a better Lannan in 2012 and he had the one blip vs LA and every other start showed excellent results.

Did Lannan impress me before 2011? Not really. He was thrust into the top of the rotation because of circumstance and he wasn't up to that task.

JD said...


NatsLady,

I agree it's not an accident. I think our execution of the Davie plan ain't great though. What I mean by that is you get walks by spoiling good pitches instead of hitting lazy fly balls to center or topping a pitch to the middle infielders. I am never upset when a hitter makes an out on a hard line drive or even when he's fooled. I don't like it when players make quiet outs early in the count.

mick said...

If Bryce is back...please, let's hope he is not wearing the same knee brace Dr Andrews had on RGIII verse the Seahawks.... hee hee

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

JD said...

Ghost,

So your analysis of Lohse's performance goes something like:

' if you take away all his bad games he's doing great'.

OK then.

June 11, 2013 12:06 PM


Are you trying to piss me off again? You are talking stupidity.

He's had 12 starts and could easily be 8-4 if he got run support of more than 3 runs in the other 8 starts.

He has a 4.03 ERA which is skewed by the inconsistencies in 3 lousy starts. I haven't watched but 2 starts of his this year and he looked great. Not sure what happened in his 3 poor starts.

Eric said...

"I am never upset when a hitter...[is] fooled."

There's really nothing in sports like the swing of a man who has been utterly deceived by a pitch. Wet noodles come immediately to mind. I almost always enjoy it even if the Nats are batting, unless the at bat is potentially game changing for us.

Eric said...

"If Bryce is back...please, let's hope he is not wearing the same knee brace Dr Andrews had on RGIII verse the Seahawks.... hee hee"

Don't even say such things! ;)

mick said...

Eric

your right, but seriously, I hope Bryce comes back on his terms at 100%

Eric said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eric said...

I'm not quite ready to trust Harper's comments that he's ready to play... ;)

Seriously, though, yeah, I don't want to see him on the field until he's really, truly healed. He does seem to have learned a good lesson about that...

mick said...

so...what about Danny....?

mick said...

I hear you Eric...good point on Bryce. I think that Bryce has some humility now based on his comments...I think he gets it and I believe he will come back only if he is cleared and feels on or about 100%

JD said...


Ghost,

Every one's stats are skewed one way or another by some bad or some great games. You can do the same with Haren. I am sorry if you consider looking at the whole picture instead of cherry picking stupid.

And god forbid no I am not trying to piss you off.Remember this is just baseball not world peace.

Water23 said...

mick, not intending to attack you but merely discuss a few differences in our perspectives on Ejax vs Haren.

As to Danny Rosenbaum, alas his fate seems to be tied to Haren's and as a result the player Haren replaced EJax. I think he might be up in September but could just as easily not be on the roster as he is a decent trade chip.

mick said...

let's factor in that beyond the medical opinions that his family has weighed in with him as well

Nats 128 said...

Ghost, I'm not a Lannan fan probably because he is so darn boring as a pitcher.

Listenting to anything JD says as the great prognositicator he makes himself out to be would have this team in last place. JD would have ditched Desmond, Espy would be his shortstop, his CF would be Nyjer and Storen would be his closer if he hadnt traded him + Jordan Zimmermann and other pieces away 2 years ago for Zach Greinke. Oh, and his latest prognostication was that there is no way Rendon will play 2nd base.

After Greinke would have left for Free Agency the Nats wouldn't have had the farm system to get Gio since they traded those guys for Greinke. The Nats in JDs 2013 team would be Strasburg, Detwiler, Haren and 2 others with Espinosa anchoring the middle of the infield. Brilliant!

mick said...

Water

fair enough and no problem

good analysis on Danny and that makes sense

thanks

Rabbit34 said...

Here's how is shakes out player wise. Rendon:B, Zimmerman:C+, LaRoche:B, Desi:B+, Span:A-, Harper:A, Werth:C+, Suzuki: C. Gotta hit the ball for something to happen. Unfortunately we're not gunna hit it enough before the season is over. But...maybe. P.S. (to those who notice) the Rabbit's brain put a lot of thought into this.

Eric said...

I know next to nothing about Rosenbaum. I seem to recall people here suggesting he throws soft and isn't that deceptive? But, that doesn't sound like the tools that produce the ERAs he's posted...

mick said...

Eric

I could be wrong, but Mike Wallace and Phil Wood, last year stated that Danny throws about 98 mph? or am I thinking of the 6'7 guy we traded to get Suzuki whose name slips my mind?

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

JD said...

Ghost,

Every one's stats are skewed one way or another by some bad or some great games. You can do the same with Haren. I am sorry if you consider looking at the whole picture instead of cherry picking stupid.

And god forbid no I am not trying to piss you off.Remember this is just baseball not world peace.

June 11, 2013 12:21 PM


He had a 3.70 ERA in 2011. I fully expected improvement in 2012 and there's no way to know since he only pitched 6 games and a 1 game blip will kill a small sample size. I don't give a bleep about his 2012 AAA stats. I don't care about his FIP and xFIP and his WHIP. I know those outlier stats suck. What I know is this guy turned his career around and given his age I expected improvement on the 3.70.

You can go on trying to justify it any way you want. This guy had 5 very good starts out of 6. Over a full season that's 25 out of 30 and you can live with that.

EmDash said...

Doubt he's playing tonight. There's pictures of him on Twitter traveling to meet up with the team, and he's got some kind of brace on his knee/leg.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Nats 128 said...
Ghost, I'm not a Lannan fan probably because he is so darn boring as a pitcher.


Lannan won't be selling extra tickets for his starts. He is boring. He isn't overpowering. He walks a lot of batters. His game is slow and boring but he is methodical and crafty and generally knows who he will pitch around then induce a GIDP ball.

NatsLady said...

JD, then you have to decide if you want a different plan or better execution of the current plan. Knowing Davey's stubbornness, we should probably hope for the latter.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

mick said...
Eric

I could be wrong, but Mike Wallace and Phil Wood, last year stated that Danny throws about 98 mph? or am I thinking of the 6'7 guy we traded to get Suzuki whose name slips my mind?


Wrong guy. You are thinking of Alex Meyer who was traded for Span. BTW, Meyer is on the DL with shoulder issues.

mick said...

EmDash said...
Doubt he's playing tonight. There's pictures of him on Twitter traveling to meet up with the team, and he's got some kind of brace on his knee/leg.

oh boy

I guess that answers a lot of questions or does it create more?

mick said...

so Bryce can not be anywhere near 100% if he has a brace

mick said...

Thanks Ghost!

Section 222 said...

Just saw Kilgore's article about Bryce. Very troubled that he still doesn't want to have a cortisone shot. He seems to think it's akin to anabolic steroids or an illegal drug, when in this case it's closer to aspirin. One shot is pretty much risk free and might help a lot. Disappointing that his status is still unclear when a shot might well address the bursitis very quickly.

NatsLady said...

Here is a funny article about Joey Votto, the guy who never hits infield flies. I wonder what his foul ball rate is. He doesn't foul out.

Votto

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-joey-votto-technicality/

mick said...

Sec 222, maybe it s more than bursitis and that is why Bryce is declining the shot?

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Nats 128 said...
Listenting to anything JD says as the great prognositicator he makes himself out to be would have this team in last place. JD would have ditched Desmond, Espy would be his shortstop, his CF would be Nyjer and Storen would be his closer if he hadnt traded him + Jordan Zimmermann and other pieces away 2 years ago for Zach Greinke. Oh, and his latest prognostication was that there is no way Rendon will play 2nd base.

After Greinke would have left for Free Agency the Nats wouldn't have had the farm system to get Gio since they traded those guys for Greinke. The Nats in JDs 2013 team would be Strasburg, Detwiler, Haren and 2 others with Espinosa anchoring the middle of the infield. Brilliant!


The Gio acquistion occured before Greinke would have left for Free Agency but I agree with you that if the Nats acquired Greinke from the Royals they wouldn't have enough to acquire Gio.

It's a good point, where would the Nats be now if that Greinke trade happened or for that matter the geniuses proposing those BJ Upton trades 2 years ago.


JaneB said...

Its troubling that there's been no Bryce news, given that he saw the doc 24 hours ago for a "second" opinion. Where did you see the photos, emdash?There's no chance the photos are maybe old? I hope so. But fear not.

Drew said...

I saw Danny pitch in Richmond in the first part of 2012, when he was lights out

I think his fastball topped out at 89. The key was his brilliant change of speeds. He had one breaking pitch in the 75 mph range and another that was Levon-esque, on the cusp of 70.

It baffled hitters because it kept them off stride.

Karns has a much better fastball, but if he can't throw the breaking stuff for strikes, big league hitters can sit dead red.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Mick, my guess is they want complete mobilization of the knee and no activity on the knee until all swelling is gone. Keep in mind that Harper was still hitting and doing running while he was recovering.

I'm not a Doctor but the readings I did said bursitis of the knee requires rest and limiting activity in the movement of the knee while adding compression in the form of bracing.

I'm hoping that Dr. Andrews set the course to full recovery. Just a wild guess. Bryce will go on a rehab assignment in 7 to 10 days.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

222 - Maybe its a religious belief?

NatsLady said...

222, I disagree on the cortisone. Never mind whether it is legal or not, or even long-term harmful or not.

It masks the pain, and will lead Bryce to further injury with his hard-driving style. His body is warning him it's had enough and needs to heal.

EmDash said...

The Post's Steinberg retweeted some of them and posted one on their site. No way of knowing what's happening exactly, though; the Nats just don't make announcements about this kind of thing outside of game times.

NatsJack in Florida said...

Moores first game back in Syracuse and Pawtucker throws a knuckleballer at him.

NatsLady said...

Ghost, I think you meant complete "immobilization" and I agree.

Eric said...

That's more than just a brace on Harper's knee...the whole leg is wrapped up...makes me think the inflamed bursae sac was removed.

But, who knows. I'm guessing we'll find out more tonight.

mick said...

good post Ghost

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

NatsLady, thanks for the correct!

NatsJack in Florida said...

Tyler batting 4th and playing left field.

EmDash said...

As to the Boswell column...it strikes me as Monday morning-quarterbacking, generally. I don't recall him raising many red flags about the team's approach to the offseason - he approved. But now that things haven't worked out, he thinks the moves were all fatally flawed. He was as much a booster as anyone before the season, so it's all a bit silly.

Section 222 said...

NL, cortisone doesn't mask pain, it reduces pain by reducing inflammation. Lots of people have cortisone shots for joint problems -- knees, shoulders, hips. If Bryce reinjures the knee because of his hard driving style, that's not the cortisone's fault.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Interesting photos of Bryce. He's not walking with crutches and that's a good sign. I'm being told the swelling has gone down further and I guess that's a good sign towards recovery.

I'm just glad he went to Dr. Andrews who you know set the exact protocol to follow.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

EmDash said...
As to the Boswell column...it strikes me as Monday morning-quarterbacking, generally. I don't recall him raising many red flags about the team's approach to the offseason - he approved. But now that things haven't worked out, he thinks the moves were all fatally flawed. He was as much a booster as anyone before the season, so it's all a bit silly.

June 11, 2013 12:47 PM


Very good observation and why should that stop Boswell on changing his stripes. He's made a career of doing that.

Last year he acted as if he forced Rizzo/Lerners hands in getting Gio with his hard hitting columns prior to that. He may have, who knows, but his turncoat style isn't funny. It's chickensh-t and that's Boz.

skidge said...

MrsB, Adam Kilgore has an article in which he quotes Bryce's father as saying he (the father) has had cortisone shots, so I don't think it's a religious belief. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/2013/06/10/3a638cd4-d218-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html.

SCNatsFan said...

NatsLady cortisone does not mask the pain, it reduces inflammation but does not address the issue that is causing the pain nor does it treat pain. It is certainly harmful long term o all joints. Lidocaine masks the pain.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

NEW POST

skidge said...

Oops, maybe this will work: http://t.co/3m7SCxIeXv

NatsLady said...

I don't see any bad news about Garcia, just this report from Syracuse.

Garcia trotted to the mound for the start of the seventh inning with the Chiefs down 2-1 and calmly, effortlessly shut down the bottom of the Red Sox order before he struck out the side in the eighth.

SCNatsFan said...

damn sec222 I should't have answered my cellphone I would have got a drink

NatsLady said...

Did Stras pitch his simulated game yesterday?

Sec. 3, My Sofa said...

Bryce and cortizone: He is LDS, and they have no official problem with medication prescribed by doctors. A Mormon with ADHD, for instance, might take Ritalin or Adderal, which are stimulants. Some individuals hold to a stricter formulation, as in all beliefs, but cortizone for Bryce's knee poses no issue there.

Drew said...

Of course, I meant that one of Rosenbaum's pitches is Livan-esque, not Levon-esque.

Maybe Alvin Tostig had two sons.

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