Monday, July 16, 2012

VIDEO: On Guillen and Harper



Ozzie Guillen had words for Bryce Harper both during and after last night's game in what has become yet another pine tar controversy involving the Nationals. Mark was there in Miami to witness all of it and called in to SportsNet Central to discuss the incident.

34 comments:

TimDz said...

Ozzie belongs in a circus side show and NOT managing a MLB Team....

A DC Wonk said...

An officem-mate just came down the hall to tell me that he's heard that some Miami radio guys are urging Zambrano to plunk Harper. WTF?

Mickey Vernon said...

Thank goodness Luria hired Guillen to screw up all that expensive talent.

Tcostant said...

Ozzie is crazy! And fun for baseball.

peric said...

He's just trying to whig-out the Nats' younger players and especially Harper. Its Ozzie's managing style. He is what he is.

Kevin said...

If Zambrano plunks Harper, I wouldn't advise Hanley Ramirez to get too comfortable in the batter's box.

Steady Eddie said...

If Z plunks Harper in a way that's either very obvious or physically injurious, he's gone. After yesterday, this crew has already had enough of Ozzie.

Steady Eddie said...

That was, "umpiring crew".

The Nats too, though I suspect they mostly find him amusing because he's not in their faces.

And the more he makes himself the show, the more he confesses how hopeless his team is becoming.

mick said...

just wondering... our players seem like nice young men, if we did get into a bench clearing brawl with Ozzie and gang... who would be our bruisers, lol

A DC Wonk said...

Hmm . . . I do remember (after Hamels plunked Harper) that JZ retaliated against Hamels himself (but did it with plausible deniability -- Hamels was attempting to bunt, and JZ hit him in the lower leg or foot, if I recall)

Doc said...

Ozzie operates at a more primitive level than Bryce.

He's just jealous...Harp's 'bat' is bigger than his 'bat'!

Without telling someone to 'FU', he's without words.

I hope Zambrano becomes part of the drama to-night!

Steady Eddie said...

A propos of Ozzie, I just had to reprint this great question from Boz's chat (his answer was just, essentially, "yes"), just because it made me smile:

OZZY AND MADDON AND HAMELS, OH MY!
Boz -- I'm pretty pumped about the Ozzy incident, as well as the two previous controversies the Nats were in (and the tenor of the Harper All Star angst). The common theme to all of them is that "You Don't Belong Here", with teams that have been dominant for the last five to ten years claiming to own the Old School and claiming the Nats need to learn their place. The Nats refuse to do so, and continue to embarrass those teams and defy expectations. Bryce has become the lightening rod--deserved or not--for the criticism of everyone who was okay with the Nats improving to third in the division, but are mad at the thought of them running away with the NL East or maybe the league. Here's hoping for a second half where they never "know their role" and draw many more detractors!

#4 said...

Fear and Ignorance said...

"Just about every HOF pitcher went against the 'Verducci Effect' and very few ever had arm problems."

Just for kicks I looked at the careers of all the 300 game winners in MLB history. I didn't have time to chart the Verducci effect, but I did look at which pitchers threw significant MLB innings before the age of 25.

The following 300 game winners did NOT throw significant innings before the age of 25:

Early Wynn
Lefty Grove
Randy Johnson
Gaylord Perry
Phil Niekro
Nolan Ryan
Eddie Plank
Warren Spahn

The following did throw significant innings before 25, although about 1/3 not until they were 24:

Tom Glavine
Tom Seaver
Don Sutton
Steve Carlton
Roger Clemens
Greg Maddux
Christy Mathewson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Walter Johnson
Cy Young

The second group mostly fall into three categories

1. Pitchers who threw mostly in the dead ball era
2. Soft throwers or pitchers who hurt their arms and became soft throwers
3. Cheaters

Carlton and Seaver might be the exceptions.

Although it's not the Verducci effect, I would still have to question the assertion that "all HOFs" were not impacted by their workload when they were young and developing.

Doc said...

Mick, I think that that Davey's Foxhole guys (Desi & Espi) would be the bruisers....with reinforcements from the Goonies!

Maybe next year Harps will lead the way...he has the potential.

#4 said...

To those who are hoping for drama tonight, I ask "why?"

The Nats are in 1st place and playing well. Harper has conducted himself in an exemplary manner. The team is banged up and playing a bit short-handed right now. Why does anyone want an incident that could cause an injury, embarrass Harper, and/or upset the momentum the team has right now. I'm hoping for another quiet and boring 4-1 win.

NCNatsie said...

Good table, #4. The other side of the question, of course involves the unanswerable: who are the guys who aren't on the list, but might have been if they hadn't "thrown significant innings" before age 25.

Feel Wood said...

A DC Wonk said...
An officem-mate just came down the hall to tell me that he's heard that some Miami radio guys are urging Zambrano to plunk Harper. WTF?


Good. Bryce is overdue for another steal of home.

#4 said...

Agreed NCNatsie. That's for another day of procrastinating from work.

natsfan1a said...

I second that emotion.

#4 said...

To those who are hoping for drama tonight, I ask "why?"

The Nats are in 1st place and playing well. Harper has conducted himself in an exemplary manner. The team is banged up and playing a bit short-handed right now. Why does anyone want an incident that could cause an injury, embarrass Harper, and/or upset the momentum the team has right now. I'm hoping for another quiet and boring 4-1 win.
July 16, 2012 2:34 PM

waddu eye no said...

If there are "no dumb questions" then somebody give me a smart answer. Why the pine tar on the bat rule? Something like a spitter rule in that it changes how the ball travels after it's hit?
Btw- ozzie's a tool

SCNatsFan said...

Guillen just can't keep his yap shut. Never could and never will. If the Fish win the game then its a non issue but as you see he needs to deflect from his team's performance. Typical.

A DC Wonk said...

Fear and Ignorance said...

"Just about every HOF pitcher went against the 'Verducci Effect' and very few ever had arm problems."


You're looking at it backwards -- from the wrong end. The correct way to look at it is: how many pitchers went against the Verducci Effect and what happened to them?

E.g., every HoF pitcher started life drinking a diet of only milk (natural or formula). Does that mean I have a shot at HoF, too?

Read the Verducci articles if you want to see loads of examples of pitchers who suffered from this (as well as a couple of outstanding exceptions -- including our own Gio, btw). But just because Gio was an exception doesn't mean others will be. The odds are against it. And why risk such a thing with a once-in-a-generation pitcher who still could have 12-15 more productive years?

Furthermore, the Veducci effect doesn't even talk about what you do the year after TJ surgery!

All the more so one should be cautious.

So, we have both things to worry about with SS. You want to risk that?!?

Laddie Blah Blah said...

Is anybody not going to be watching tonight?

hiramhover said...

Is anybody not going to be watching tonight?

The showtime cameras certainly will be, which I suspect has been Ozzie's real motive all along.

SCNatsFan said...

Nothing would make me happier to see the Fish tank this season and watch Ozzie lose control of the team

NatsLady said...

This is funny. Don't worry, it's safe for work--well, unless you are lip-reading.

/advanced-lipreading-excercise-ozzie-guillen

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/advanced-lipreading-excercise-ozzie-guillen/

JD said...

DC Wonk,

Exactly right. And to the question why 160? The answer is you have to have an arbitrary number in there somewhere. If it was 180 someone would ask; why not 200?

Case studies have shown this to be a reasonable number particularly after TJ surgery and at the age of 23.

As someone had said before there is never any guarantee that you will win a WS with or without SS. As a GM you want to maximize your ability to contend in the short and long term and to do that you need to protect your young pitchers because they are fragile.

ChiefWJ said...

D.C. Wonk said:

every HoF pitcher started life drinking a diet of only milk (natural or formula). Does that mean I have a shot at HoF, too?

I think Grover Cleveland Alexander started life drinking a diet of whiskey and moved on from there.

JD said...

DC Wonk,

Just from the top of my head. Here's a short list of pitchers who were abused early and ended up with short careers; I'm talking some really promising pitchers here:

1)Frank Tannana
2)Bobby Witt
3)Fernando Valenzuela
4)Dwight Gooden
5)Mark Fydrich
6)Mark Prior

baseballswami said...

Bryce could wipe the floor with Amy of them.

NatsLady said...

I think 160 because, among other things, that is about the length of the minor-league season (5 months). So when you are bringing up young guys, if they pitch part of a minor-league seasong (after signing) the first year, then a full minor league season the second year, then a full minor league season plus a September call-up the third year, they are ready for the work load of the major-league season. That's just a guess.

ChiefWJ said...

Tanana actually had a pretty long career, although he was never as good as he was before 25. He had 29 starts or better per year for nine years in his 30s. The other examples are good ones, although I don't know whether overuse (at least of his right arm) is what hurt Gooden.

Two other examples: Don Drysdale--heavy workload in his youth; he is in the HOF, but did not pitch after 32. Bob Gibson--not much work before 25 but he pitched to 39 & I think the consensus is that he had a better career than Drysdale.

Tcostant said...

#4 - stop that. The problem with HoF pitchers, is they are Hof pitchers. Since your looking back at history, your missing the David Clyde's of the world, because you don't remember them because they career are just a footnote in history.

For every HoF pitcher on this list, they are a ton of Mark Fidryches...

Steady Eddie said...

#4 -- I don't know that anyone here is hoping for drama tonight. It's more that, being familiar with Ozzie's antics, they are anticipating he may produce some drama. Or (more likely) that Ozzie has generated that anticipation so that he gets talked about even if there is no particular drama (so the Miami media folks will keep asking "is this the inning something's gonna happen?).

It's really all about "keep those cameras on Ozzie, no matter what".

(I'd expect Davey has already cautioned the Nats about how to behave if one of the Marlins does try to stir something up.)

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