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Associated Press The scoreboard at Great American Ball Park tells the story. |
But in none of their 704 previous losses since arriving in town were the Nationals so thoroughly dominated as they were Friday by the Cincinnati Reds. By night's end, the scoreboard read 15-0, the most-lopsided defeat in club history. It didn't even feel like it was that close.
"We got our you-know-what kicked," manager Davey Johnson said.
Remember all those good vibes and "World Series or Bust" talk after the Nationals swept the Marlins to open their season 3-0? Nobody was talking like that at the end of this whitewashing at Great American Ball Park, least of all the man behind the plate who had an up-close view to each of Cincinnati's 19 hits, six of them home runs.
"I take a lot of pride in my work behind the dish, calling a lot of pitches and working on getting pitchers through the game," Kurt Suzuki said. "And when stuff like this happens, it just seems like you're handcuffed out there, like nothing can go right. ... I felt pretty helpless out there."
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63 comments:
Pretty sure .270/33/100 happened at age 33.
And at age 33 going on 34 he had back spasms and had to be pulled for Tyler Moore. He continues to have this issue.
And Werth will have his as well at age 33 going on 34.
Its the nature of the beast.
And as for "negativity" I think Mark has me beat don't you?
Even Rizzo admitted the offense would be what it was last season. That they would have to manufacture runs more often.
In the end as I said its all about the speed with which their young talent develops as major league hitters. And the Nats do have the talent. But the young talent on teams like Cincinnati are a bit ahead of the young talent on the Nats.
I have no problem with waiting for they young talent to develop. But, I am also not going to expect Werth and LaRoche to fill in while that occurs in good time. That's delusional. Its not likely to happen.
I'm glad they have Chris Young stashed away.
I'm sad, but not worried. I think they got it ALL out of there systems in one game. Clear sailing from here. They will win Saturdays game for sure!
peric said:
"When's the last time Werth hit more than 20 home runs? 30 doubles? When is the last time Zimmerman did that? Even in an injury free year they are not even close to a Votto and Bruce. And Frazier just missed out on rookie of the year to Harper. Some day Harper may be an elite hitter but that might not be this year.
No, they have nothing to compare to what the Reds have in their batting order at this point. Nor the Braves for that matter."
Wow dude. Werth hit 20 homers and was close to 30 doubles in 2011. Zimmerman did it LAST year even with the injuries. Do you even bother to look things up before spouting off about them? Yes LaRoche and Werth are aging but that doesn't mean they are both going to completely fall apart in one season. You keep talking about Laroche's injury history like he is Nick Johnson or something. LaRoche has played in 144 or more games in 6 out of 8 seasons. His only major injury of his career was the shoulder and he proved he was over that last season. It is safe to say that while he may not be an elite offensive player he will hit 20-25 homers and drive in 85+ runs.
Also I take Span over Morse in the lineup all day long. Morse has tremendous power but is slow and doesn't walk much at all. His outfield defense is no good either. Span is patient, sees a ton of pitches, has an OBP that is almost 360 and runs the bases well. No he isn't a thumper but that is what Harper/Zimm/Laroche/Desi is for. Hell, Werth, Espinosa and Ramos are all capable of popping 20 homers in a season too. Quick acting like this is the 2009 Nats with a futile offense. They might not have the best lineup in the league but they will be in the top half in offense by the end of the year and with the pitching the team has that will be quite enough.
this is why you dont give zach duke a major league deal, he is awful, he has nothing overpowereing which a reliever must have, why is he on the team, it showed today how awful he is
Hey,peric, read this:
“I think there’s plenty of potential for long ball in the lineup. But the big thing is a lot of the younger guys in the lineup are becoming better hitters. I would rather have a better hitter then the long ball. You can do more damage when you’re a quality hitter and can get on base and can keep the line moving. And Denard Span has done that his whole career. We were very successful having Jayson do that, he got on base a lot and took a lot of pitches, but Denard does the same thing. I don’t worry about the long ball, there’s plenty of power in this lineup.”
I'm not gonna look it up, but I remember thinking that many losses last year seemed like a 24 hour bug... Just vomiting all the bad out at once, so a week of clean, efficient play could follow....
Sounds like a plan!!! GYFNG!!!
Wow, just saw the final score (I only watched the first four or five innings). Did the Reds untuck after it was over? Eh, new day, new ballgame.
1a, the Reds untucked in the 7th...
pdowdy, you're putting way too much effort into peric. No, he doesn't look things up before spouting off, he lives in his own delusional alternate universe and once he gets something in his mind you're not going to change it, and he's going to keep posting it ad nauseum.
PDowdy - please remember that Peric had Soriano as the best Centerfielder in Washington history! I also think he had Nick Johnson winning a gold glove. I just looked on baseball reference.com and they must have made an error because there was no Nick Johnson listed. So Peric has Soriano in Centerfield, Nick Johnson as a gold glove winner, Span on the bench and the rest of our lineup as punch and judy hitters playing for Riggleman not Davey. hmmmm.
Look things up??? Not Peric. He just reads Nationals Prospects and dreams of our AAA/AA players.
Darn, I think I owe NatsJim a drink! of to the site.
OK: need help here. I went to put NatsJim on the drink site and I want to make sure I don't screw things up. How do I add his name at the top?
Ah, but NatsJack, you love to poke the bear. Come on, admit it.
Let us speak of this no more ... Go Det!!
Dusty made a statement with this game, especially with running up the score. My Dad, who was a fan of the Cardinals during the Gibson era and loathes the Reds, would say its time for a little "chin music." Our pitchers need to make them uncomfortable in the batter's box. Good chance for Stras to do just that as a righty tomorrow.
I guess we won't go 162-0. Seriously, just one game but, I do not have a good feeling on Haren. His Spring was not impressive and needless to say his preparation tonight was not very good. My only other concern is Espi, the more I see him bat Left handed and more I see Lombo period, well.. I'm sorry, I just do not get it.
Reds are a solid team and maybe the team for Nats to beat for NLCS.
I know we all have discussed the whole issue with Ejac and Lannan. But, should we have stuck with Lannan has perhaps the 5th starter with Det being #4? I am wiling to let last night side with Haren, but if his April and May is the same, Nats will have to deal with it quickly
and as you can see, I still do not type any better from last season
Wake up call early in the season. The Reds are not the Marlins. Someone who knows about these things- would the length of those home runs have made them outs most other places? Also- seems like , just a prickly sense, some of our hitters are a little bit on the bad side of the BABIP monster. ALR especially. Tyler playing there today? He can probably hit the ball all the way out of the stadium.
but I will say this to Mark Z, everything he said was true about the Nats losses through the years. BUT, at least the Nats never blew a 2-0 lead and then lost 3 straight at HOME to Giants last season.
in the NL playoffs, i forgot to add
ALR has back spasms, is what Charlie Slows said last evening
any thoughts on HRod?
I just added him, sjm.
sjm308 said...
OK: need help here. I went to put NatsJim on the drink site and I want to make sure I don't screw things up. How do I add his name at the top?
April 06, 2013 7:22 AM
Well played, Mick. :-)
BUT, at least the Nats never blew a 2-0 lead and then lost 3 straight at HOME to Giants last season.
NatsJack in Florida said...
If you all are talking about that poser whose name I can never remember...
Voldemort...?
That's pretty harsh, NJ...
I know I will probably get blasted by Peric and others, but what the O's Chris Davis is doing right now is unreal.
Two quick items -
1) Peric is correct that Alfonso Soriano was and still today is the best OF that the Nationals have ever had. Granted he defense was medicore at best but 40 HR - 40 SB is unreal (only 4 players have ever done it). Add to that his line of .277/.351/.560 and he clears the bar easily. Now, if you want to add in the Expos then Vlad is better but if we are all talking just the Nats then we must accept the realities.
2) I am just enjoying the discussions. I can remember the first years of this blog when we our entire discussion starting around now would be focused on the Draft in July. Boy is it nice to be discussing the games and not our draft needs.
Go Nats!
I remember thinking that it would be better to lose by blowout than losing a lead late...
Anyway today is a new day.
Go Nats!
Hey Mark Z.
I'm still talking about World Series or Bust!
This was not their worst loss. Game 5 in the playoffs was. This game meant nothing.
Go Nats!
It is but all-to-recent that our starting staff would routinely dig a 4,5,6 run hole early in a game, and yesterday's 5-0 after 3 innings is of that ilk.
However, this was a "Total-Systems-Failure" of starting pitching, bullpen pitching, offense and defense. Hopefully a catastrophic "one-off". Since we will be losing another 60 or so games this season (along with each and every team in the MLB), accept and move on (to this afternoon's game) with no hang-over and no post-mortem. 158 more of these to play.
Here ya go. Other teams that lost big and went on to the postseason. Don't give up hope, peeps.
No fun
http://ladyandthenats.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-fun.html
Water, he didn't say Soriano was the best OF they ever had, he specifically said he was the best Center Fielder they've ever had - the discussion was regarding whether Span was the best CF the Nats have had since coming to DC, and he threw out a LF to support his argument against Span.
NIDO Alert: I've modified the "Who's Going" tab, swapping the rows and columns. It'll be a lot easier to find your name / add a new name, with the names going down the left column. Game dates go in rows across.
Doing that was a lot more fun than stewing over last night.
Almost forgot; here's the link.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArHMZg5A8wSXdGViSG8xUGQxUlZzaUVxekJFNHFRcEE#gid=9
Looks like the updating function is working now, as yours is at the top of the Blog Roll. I think you can safely let the in-comment blog updates go now. ;-)
NatsLady said...
Here ya go. Other teams that lost big and went on to the postseason. Don't give up hope, peeps.
No fun
http://ladyandthenats.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-fun.html
April 06, 2013 8:57 AM
NatsLady- Cool thanks for that :)
Davey, is that you? :-)
Cwj said...
Hey Mark Z.
I'm still talking about World Series or Bust!
This was not their worst loss. Game 5 in the playoffs was. This game meant nothing.
Go Nats!
April 06, 2013 8:46 AM
Natsfan- nah, just me :)
Water - what NatsJim said!!
Soriano was a treat to watch that year and I loved that teams tried to test his arm in his first year in LEFTFIELD. The 40/40 was also special and since we had very little to be cheerful about, he was a ray of sunshine. I also think it was the right move to let him go to the Cubs for that obscene amount of money and I think our draft picks have worked out pretty darn well.
Really hope Det can get us back on track.
Go Nats!! and thanks as always natsfan1a
On the grand slam for Henry, well, at least it was a strike
Great!!! Thanks, Mark! Whatever you did. Disregard the email I sent this morning!
Does anyone else feel like the Reds were out of line by stealling bases and swinging at 3-0 counts with such a big lead mid-late in the game? That bothered me!
No. Unless you think a 7-0 lead is insurmountable.
My feeling is you never stop trying to score runs in a major league game. Especially against a team that has the potential to get hot offensively. As opposed to last night where our offense was just offensive. I will repeat today- that zero offends me no matter how many runs the other team scores.
Bgrub said...
Does anyone else feel like the Reds were out of line by stealling bases and swinging at 3-0 counts with such a big lead mid-late in the game? That bothered me!
AGREED! it was classless, not at all shocked by a team once owned by Marge Shott at one time
I am really pulling for Henry, but I have concluded it ain't happening. He may be gone by June
sjm - I noticed someone (you?) added your name to the bottom of the "Who's Going" tab and then entered a bunch of 308Es several rows below that.
I assumed that was all supposed to be you, and I copied the 308Es into your already-existing row (just below Mark's). I left the newly-created sjm308 row there in case you had some reason for adding it. I can remove it, if you like - let me know.
Davey said last year he would keep the peddle down even with a big lead. This was after we gave up a big lead against the Braves and stomped another team, maybe the Astros. Kind of hard to complain about being the stompee. Good teams don't complain, they get back.
Reposting from last thread --
the Yankees won three games in the 1960 WS by 16-3, 10-0, and 12-0.
Of course, the Pirates took the series, winning four games by a cumulative margin of --wait for it -- 7 runs, less than the margin in any of the 3 Yanks' wins.
It's one loss. Counts the same in the standings as a walk-off one-run win on a balk.
Personally, I would be more insulted if the other team let up on me. I don't want any hand-outs and I want them to fear me so much that they want to keep pounding me. What comes around, goes around. The next time it will be our turn.
Agree with those who see Span as better than advertised. You have to have a multidimensional offense to win -- sure, cultivating the long ball, but also having (as Davey said) the guy who can keep the line moving and develop momentum. Some days for whatever reason -- opposing pitcher, weather, ballpark, tiring stretch of the schedule -- you won't have the long ball, but you still need an offense that's constructed to give you a chance to win at such times. Even last night Span was on base 3 out of 4 PAs -- it was simply that given our pitchers, we were never really in the ball game.
Then add in Span's great and wide ranging defense, which as Werth noted makes him and Harper better on the lines, and you have a player who contributes in every facet of the game. That's why he was the right choice.
I expect the morse vs span argument to last all year with the people on morse's side to vocally express themselves every time we lose or get shut out and go back in the closet when we win close games that span's superior defense makes a difference.
I cant really disagree with any of the posts who took no offense to the Reds stealing and swinging on 3-0 counts when up 6+ runs. As a hardcore baseball fan with old school tendencies, I do think there is a point when you need to pull back on the aggressiveness however. Of course no team should ever stop trying under any circumstances. I happened to be listening to the Reds radio broadcast (Brennaman/Brantley) when Frazier stole 2nd with a 6 run lead in the 5th and they even commented that the Reds should not be running given the circumstances and speculated that he must have misinterpretted a sign....thought that was interesting.
It is safe to say that while he may not be an elite offensive player he will hit 20-25 homers and drive in 85+ runs.
He and LaRoche are going to be 34 years old dude. Its not going to happen that way ... neither he nor Werth might last the season at age 34? It happens all the time on every team. Pujols used to be the best hitter in baseball.
You are delusional PDowdy.
And Zimmerman has not played an entire season in the last three.
Relying on LaRoche and Werth is not a good bet. Relying on Werth as a good OBP machine (see last year) batting second may be a good bet if he can stay healthy. As Werth himself said last season the hard part of the 162 game grind is staying healthy. And not too long afterward he broke his wrist.
And health is going to be an issue for Espinosa as well with his damaged shoulder.
Its safe to say that the offense is going to have to manufacture runs. I don't see any significant difference between Span and Nick Johnson when Johnson was with the Nats. Sure Span patrols CF and steals but Nick produced decent power. Both had left-handed bats. And where is Nick the Stick now? And how old is he?
Harper and Moore have to break out and Zim has to stay healthy for this offense to work. Rendon isn't going to be a savior.
Candide: my lack of computer skills are fairly well known (just ask natsfana1a). Please erase whatever I did wrong and thank you for correcting my errors. Hope to meet all of you soon!!
Sorry, I missed the earlier discussion and was giving Peric the benefit of the doubt as I knew Soriano played LF and not CF. Ah well.
As to Span, I am very pleased so far. He is everything that was advertised and is been a pleasant addition.
SJM - All fixed! Looks like we'll have a bit of a turnout April 13 against the Barves!
Never give peric the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't deserve it. In fact, anything he says should be taken with a huge grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. The Soriano error came just before he claimed he had been watching the team longer than us and knew it better... lol
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