Wednesday, July 31, 2013

Game 108: Nats at Tigers

Mark Zuckerman / NATS INSIDER
DETROIT — As much as the Nationals have struggled over the years against Anibal Sanchez, might they actually be looking forward to facing Justin Verlander today? OK, that might be stretching things a bit. But 2013 Verlander (3.99 ERA, 1.409 WHIP) isn't exactly 2011-2012 Verlander (2.52 ERA, 0.987 WHIP), so perhaps there's a sliver of hope.

Davey Johnson is trying a slightly different look for today's game. Denard Span (15-for-42 in his career vs. Verlander) is leading off, with Bryce Harper right behind him. Meanwhile, the red-hot Jayson Werth (.371/.448/.629 in July) swaps spots with the ice-cold Adam LaRoche (.167/.237/.298 in July).

Gio Gonzalez gets the nod for the Nationals, hoping to keep this potent Detroit lineup in check and get his team back on the winning track before they head out of town for a weekend in Milwaukee.

Updates to come...

WASHINGTON NATIONALS at DETROIT TIGERS
Where: Comerica Park
Gametime: 1:08 p.m. EDT
TV: MASN, Ch. 9, MLB.tv
Radio: WJFK (106.7 FM), WFED (1500), XM 176
Weather: Cloudy, 74 degrees, Wind 6 mph in from LF
NATIONALS (52-55)
CF Denard Span
LF Bryce Harper
3B Ryan Zimmerman
RF Jayson Werth
1B Adam LaRoche
SS Ian Desmond
2B Anthony Rendon
C Kurt Suzuki
2B Steve Lombardozzi
(LHP Gio Gonzalez)

TIGERS (60-45)
CF Austin Jackson
RF Torii Hunter
LF Matt Tuiasosopo
1B Prince Fielder
DH Victor Martinez
SS Jhonny Peralta
2B Hernan Perez
3B Ramon Santiago
C Alex Avila
(RHP Justin Verlander)

UMPIRES
HP Brian Gorman (cc)
1B Manny Gonzalez
2B Tony Randazzo
3B Larry Vanover

1:08 p.m. — And we're underway with a light rain falling here in Detroit. Justin Verlander starts off Denard Span with a fastball for ball one.

1:21 p.m. — And the Nats jump on Verlander for a quick 1-0 lead. Span drew a leadoff walk. Bryce Harper crushed the very first pitch he ever saw from the Tigers ace to right field for a base hit. Both runners advanced on a wild pitch. Ryan Zimmerman drew a walk, loading the bases with nobody out for the Nats' hottest hitter. And Jayson Werth delivered a sac fly to right, recording his NL-leading 22nd RBI of July. The Nats did squander a chance to add more when Adam LaRoche put forth an awful, half-swing attempt at a Verlander curveball to strike out and Ian Desmond grounded to short. But they'll take an early 1-0 lead as Gio Gonzalez takes the mound.

1:28 p.m. — The Tigers hit the ball hard off Gonzalez in the bottom of the first, but Torii Hunter's ground-rule double was the only base hit. Prince Fielder did come oh-so-close to connecting with two outs, but he just got under the ball and skied it to center field to end the inning.

1:51 p.m. — In a word: Oof. The Tigers just scored five runs in the bottom of the second. And it probably felt like even more. Anthony Rendon, playing third base today with Zimmerman serving as DH, couldn't make a lunging stop of a Ramon Santiago bouncer to his right. That brought home two runs. Alex Avila then did his thing again, lashing an opposite-field, two-run homer. At that moment, the Tigers had scored nine runs in this series, all nine RBI coming from their 7-8-9 hitters. That streak ended abruptly, though, when Torii Hunter crushed a 3-1 pitch to left for another homer. Add a Rendon throwing error and this one's really going well for the Nationals right now. It's 5-1 Detroit after two. Like I said, oof.

2:09 p.m. — And LaRoche's slump continues. He has struck out twice today and is now 8 for his last 65. His season batting average has plummeted to .234.

2:21 p.m. — Hey, now it's raining! Still 5-1 in the bottom of the fourth.

2:55 p.m. — And it's gotten worse. Much, much worse. The score is now 10-1. Gio Gonzalez was charged with all 10 runs, becoming only the second pitcher in Nationals history to give up 10 runs in a game. The other: The immortal Jason Simontacchi in 2007. Both starts, by the way, came against Detroit. But wait, it gets worse, because Ross Ohlendorf threw only 11 pitches in relief of Gonzalez before departing with an injury. We'll have to find out what exactly happened, but his fastball topped out at 86 mph, only five days after he was throwing 95-96 during a 114-pitch start against the Mets. Sweet. Fancy. Moses.

3:04 p.m. — Meanwhile, the Nats haven't scored off Verlander since the top of the first. LaRoche just struck out for the third time today. He has stranded six men on base, four of them in scoring position. Still 10-1 in the middle of the fifth.

3:24 p.m. — The sixth inning has ended. The score remains 10-1. That is all.

3:33 p.m. — Can it get worse? Well, maybe. Bryce Harper just winced after a swing in the top of the seventh, bringing Davey Johnson and Lee Kuntz out of the dugout. Harper stayed in the game, but you've got to wonder if something in his knee didn't feel right there. Still 10-1 at the stretch.

3:43 p.m. — 11-1. Onto the eighth. It's almost over. I promise.

3:52 p.m. — Harper is now out of the game, replaced by Roger Bernadina. We'll see if he actually hurt himself or if this is just a blowout situation.

4:00 p.m. — Meanwhile, the trade deadline just passed. Barring something completely out of the blue in the last few minutes, the Nationals didn't do anything.

4:08 p.m. — And now this game is over. Nats lose 11-1. They've reached the two-thirds point of the season at 52-56, leaving them on pace to finish with 78 wins in 2013.

310 comments:

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alexva said...

looks like a crowded infield

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

I think RZim is DH and Rendon at 3rd.

NatsLady said...

rzim is dh. davey said on the radio.

A DC Wonk said...

See -- proof that Davey reads NI comments! ;-)

We have Lombo playing, and red-hot-currently-under-appreciated*-Werth bumped up to clean-up, even though we're facing a RHP.

Note to Span haters -- in the last 30 days -- 25 games -- Span's been hitting .293/.346/.424

=============
*under-appreciated because he keeps hitting homers during losses . . . :-(

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Sup my people... Gosh that was a heart breaker yesterday... as most of the season...

I was hoping to crush A Sanchez - I just don't like that guy...

Hopefully, we crush Verlander and can take the series 3 - 1!

Go Nats!

A DC Wonk said...

m said...

If anything this team is cosnsistant. Our lineup is no match for Detroit's.

I don't understand what those two sentences have to do with each other.

There are 29 teams who's lineup doesn't match Detroit's. BR's SRS and other places currently have the Tigers as the best team in all of MLB.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Comerica is still a pitcher-friendly park. RH lineup even tho Verlander is a RH pitcher. Important for Nats hitters to repress their reflexive swing-from-the-heels approach and concentrate on just getting balls in play. Lots of room in the OF for balls to rattle around.

bowdenball said...

A DC Wonk said...

"We have Lombo playing, and red-hot-currently-under-appreciated*-Werth bumped up to clean-up, even though we're facing a RHP."

Although Werth certainly deserves it the way he's been hitting, I suspect the swap was more about not having four straight right-handers than about favoring Werth over LaRoche in the cleanup spot.

Tcostant said...

I still think Ramos should have DH. Zimm could have played 3B and either Lombo or Rendon could taken a seat.

mick said...

A DC Wonk said...

OK, I've heard that meme just too many times, and I'm going to speak out against it.

Espi only played in 44 games. At that time is BA was .100 lower than the year before, and it was quite reasonable to expect that he would get that average up.


ALR after 44 games was hitting a paltry .219 -- did management "play him too long", too?

First off on ALR, the answer was No...difference is, ALR is a veteran player who has come back from bad streaks in the past...Espi had been slumping at the end of 2012 and it carried in post season to the 44 games in 2013. Yes, that was a big enough sample size by any measure and...you forget, this slump extended into the minors as well

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Glad to hear the news about McCatty!

mick said...

I think Lombo and Rendon should platoon the rest of the season and in fact, Lombo should platoon with Span as well.

bowdenball said...

Cabrera is out today for the Tigers. Nice break for the Nats.

bowdenball said...

mick said...

"I think Lombo and Rendon should platoon the rest of the season and in fact, Lombo should platoon with Span as well."

WHAT?

I can't even ...

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Mick - you cant be serious at 10:53... you are kidding, right???

mick said...

bowdenball

whats your problem and why not...dog days of august, you keep players fresh as well...I know it does not fit the bs narrative of some of you in here


not that I give a sh--

mick said...

Lombo's defense is solid...am i missing something...are there games I have missed where he has errors???

or are there games such as the series verse Mets that Lombo went 3 of 4 that you all missed?

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Lombo is no where near the player that Span is... Span is having a down year and is still better than Lombo... Hell, Lombo cant play OF at all...

Come on man, I know you are frustrated but that right there makes no sense...

mick said...

MrsB

can you comprehend when you read....HELLO HELLO

I said platoon, not replace


this is getting ridiculous and if you all want to get ugly...lets roll!!

MrsB loves the Nats said...

I sure enough can comprehend...

Let me school you for a sec.. to platoon is to switch in some circumstances... which theorticatlly means replace at some point...

Boy don't try it... but I forget, as soon as someone disagrees or calls you out on something - its an attack on you...

I don't have time for your non-sense... carry on...

bowdenball said...

mick said...

"bowdenball

whats your problem and why not...dog days of august, you keep players fresh as well...I know it does not fit the bs narrative of some of you in here"

My problem is that it's a terrible idea in every respect. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you'd move Harper to CF and Lombo to LF on Span's platoon days, you're trying to replace Span and Rendon with a player who is worse than both of them in every way. So that's the first thing that's wrong with it.

The second things that's wrong with it is that you'd be stunting the development of Rendon, who is a huge part of this team's future, by playing him only against left-handed pitchers. He'd be on the bench for most games. That makes no sense in terms of the club's future.

Finally, you'd be taking one of the club's strengths- OF defense- and turning into a weakness by replacing Span in CF with a hobbled Harper and replacing Harper in LF with a guy with no arm and limited OF experience.

natsfan1a said...

We interrupt this thread to bring you good news from Mark's Tweeter feed thingy on this here site. Sounds like a good plan to me. Feel better, coach. (Okay, carry on, folks. Oh, and GO NATS!!)

Mark Zuckerman @ZuckermanCSN

Good news to report: Steve McCatty will be released from hospital today. Davey says he'll stay in DC, rejoin team Monday.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Anyways - I wonder if Miggy is just sore today or if he actually hurt the hip...

I don't think he will win the triple crown again this year...

mick said...


The second things that's wrong with it is that you'd be stunting the development of Rendon

last week, a few posters made a good point that perhaps Rendon was not physically able to play a full MLB season, being his rookie year and being called up before the team actually wanted too. based on this, why not platoon, I disagree that it would hurt Rendon, in fact, i think it would help him

we have a difference of opinion and neither of us are 100% right or wrong

MrsB, I can not have an intelligent conversation with.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Yeah 1a - I saw that earlier... Im glad to hear.. Irregular heart beat is something else... My grandmother had that and was in the hospital for 2 weeks...

mick said...

great news on cat!!


I don't have time for your non-sense...

nonsense...you twisted what I posted sweetheart and that i will not tolerate!!

MrsB loves the Nats said...

bowdenball - stop making sense...

bowdenball said...

mick said...

"last week, a few posters made a good point that perhaps Rendon was not physically able to play a full MLB season, being his rookie year and being called up before the team actually wanted too. based on this, why not platoon, I disagree that it would hurt Rendon, in fact, i think it would help him"

Rendon's health is an interesting point. If you want to give him an off day once a week or so in favor of Lombo because you're concerned he's wearing down, I would probably agree with you, especially if the Nats don't make up any ground on the Reds in the next week or two. But you're talking about not letting him face right-handed major league pitching for two months. That's probably the one thing he needs to do the MOST over the next couple months. I don't think that's the way to get him a little extra rest.

As to the outfield platoon, I just think it clearly makes the club worse on both sides of the ball. Span has better numbers than Lombo even in a down year for him, and obviously the defense would suffer quite a bit.

mick said...

bowden


that makes sense, good post

A DC Wonk said...

Espi had been slumping at the end of 2012 and it carried in post season to the 44 games in 2013. Yes, that was a big enough sample size by any measure and...you forget, this slump extended into the minors as well

Not exactly. Espi hit .243 in Sept/Oct, and actually hit better in the second half (.263) than the first half (.232)

As for Espi's extending his slump into the minors -- that's hindsight! That's my point. Playing Espi for 44 games is not unreasonable given what they knew then

Joe Seamhead said...

mick, in my opinion if you're talking about pulling Span and putting Lombardozzi anywhere in the OF you are just wrong. Go watch the Alexandria Aces or the Bethesda Big Train and you will see much, much better quality outfielders then Steve Lombardozzi in every aspect and phase of outfielding, not just arm strength. Span had a horrible last half of May and June, otherwise he has been basically an average player offensively, and defensively he has been outstanding all year long.
I do agree with you that a couple of days off could possibly benefit Anthony Rendon, and Lombo is here to be a utility player and 2B is his best position.

sjm308 said...

Mick - you can't seriously compare Span vs. Lombo in the outfield and even at bat Span has had a better year - to platoon you are saying Span sits against left handed pitching and honestly Lombo is not the right handed bat needed. At best Lombo is a decent infield sub and maybe can give Rendon a rest now and then but platooning those two or Span and Lombo is not the answer. Now, platooning Moore and LaRoche makes some sense but the reality of all this is that Davey does not platoon.

Oh, my opinion is Mrs B was not attacking you but you stay strong my friend.

A DC Wonk said...

Wednesday Tidbits

- As somebody pointed out last night - last night was the first time in Stras' career he gave up a HR with more than one man on base

- Bases loaded. Rookie Jonathan Villar (Astros) was on third. Leftie pitcher sets. Stares at first base. Villar takes off and steals home. Awesome! link

- OK, so pitchers know not to punch lockers -- because they can hurt themselves. How an air pump fist? That can be dangerous, too!. (Check it out!)

- Cards lose a double header to Pirates (scoring one run in 20 innings!) -- six straight losses for them now. And five straight losses for Reds. So, by winning 4 of the last five, the Pirates have zoomed from 2.5 back just on Friday to 1.5 games in the lead today.

- Mets Zack Wheeler took a no-hitter into the seventh

sjm308 said...

one thing you have to love about Mick is - he puts it out there for thought. Might not always make good sense but he is always trying to get our team better. Have to love that in a fan.

A DC Wonk said...

sjm308 said...

Mick - you can't seriously compare Span vs. Lombo in the outfield and even at bat Span has had a better year - to platoon you are saying Span sits against left handed pitching and honestly Lombo is not the right handed bat needed.


Well . . . OTOH, Lombo is hitting .250 against lefties, and Span is .146 against lefties this year.

On the other, other, hand, Span's two HR's came recently against lefties.

On the other, other, other, hand . . . five fingers.

A DC Wonk said...

sjm308 said...

one thing you have to love about Mick is - he puts it out there for thought. Might not always make good sense but he is always trying to get our team better. Have to love that in a fan.

Agreed!

Mick, you live and die with with each win or loss. You are of the "don't just stand there, do something" variety -- but it obviously comes from your heart. (Many of us look at the stats, first ;-) )

You put the "fanatic" back into "fan."

We love ya' for it!

Tcostant said...

Random thoughts -

I guess Zack Wheeler isn't tipping his pitches anymore?

I have no issues with Span defense.

I do think Rizzo missed an out by not going after
Alfonso Soriano (see last post for why).

I think I'm not okay with a new manager next year (that wasn't the case in the offseason).

I miss the Bottomless Popcorn at Nationals Park.

Get Your Re(n)d On said...

Rendon just had a day off on Monday, and he'll have another one tomorrow. He's not hurt and he's not recovering from anything. Two days off in one week is more than enough for him.

Tcostant said...

opps:

I think I'm now okay with a new manager next year (that wasn't the case in the offseason).

That very different and what I meant to write..

A DC Wonk said...

Hmm . . . I thinking that if the Nats can't do it, of rooting for the Pirates (as a temporary second-favorite, just for this year). I feel bad for the team, the city, and the last time they even finished just above .500 was 20 years ago! Over a span of six years (2005-2010) they finished in last place five times -- culminating in 2010 with a 105-loss season.

In 2011 & 2012 they moved up to fourth. McCutcheon strikes me as all class. Other than he, their not hitting much, but they sit atop the NL in team ERA.

If that Nats can't do it, it's be nice to see the Pirates do it.

Doc said...

Our Nats are snakebit!

How else do you explain losing to someone named Annabell, which is Spanish for the name Sue, and our very best pitcher throwing a 97 mph heater which is grandslammed by some Mendoza clown hitting .195???

And even worse, it's done in a deadbeat city that just declared bankruptcy!!

A DC Wonk said...

I do think Rizzo missed an out by not going after Alfonso Soriano (see last post for why).

I gotta ask -- I just looked a bit more closely at the deal: why in the world did the Cubs do that deal? They're still paying $13M a year for him next year (instead of $5M), and all they got was a 21 year old who's 3-8, 4.25, in high A-ball?

OTOH, would that Nats want to spend what would be $5M on a player who'd want to be a starter next year -- but he's batting .254 now, and he'd be 38 years old next year? His WAR with Cubs is only 0.8 this year -- which (hold on to your hats) is lower than Span's 1.0 this year.

bowdenball said...

A DC Wonk said...

"Hmm . . . I thinking that if the Nats can't do it, of rooting for the Pirates (as a temporary second-favorite, just for this year). I feel bad for the team, the city, and the last time they even finished just above .500 was 20 years ago! Over a span of six years (2005-2010) they finished in last place five times -- culminating in 2010 with a 105-loss season.

In 2011 & 2012 they moved up to fourth. McCutcheon strikes me as all class. Other than he, their not hitting much, but they sit atop the NL in team ERA.

If that Nats can't do it, it's be nice to see the Pirates do it."

Find me ten Pirates fans who aren't either Steelers, Penguins fans or both and maybe I'll start to feel sorry for them and root for them. How about the Indians? Or the Royals? Both of them have a shot at the postseason, and unlike Pittsburgh sports fans, those fans have actually suffered the last decade or more.

A DC Wonk said...

Find me ten Pirates fans who aren't either Steelers, Penguins fans or both and maybe I'll start to feel sorry for them and root for them. How about the Indians? Or the Royals?

Point taken. I'm sick of Steelers & Steeler fans.

As for Indians or Royals . . . well, for an _AL_ team, I suppose . . . . ;-)

Yes -- they _have_ suffered. A long time.

SCNatsFan said...

A team that plays Lombo or a player like him on a regular basis in the OF will never win. He doesn't have the talent offensively or defensively. He's a backup infielder who, like all players, can get sneaky hot. That doesn't make him good.

SCNatsFan said...

And, if we got Soriano, where exactly would he play?

mick said...

coach and wonk


TY

lol

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Sjm - Of course I didnt attack him.. I dont attack anyone.. I just told him it was a silly/simple idea (to platoon Lombo and Span) and I gave my reasons why...

Which seemingly you all said the same thing.. but maybe its becuz I am a woman... idk nor do i care at this point...

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Wonk - if the Nats dont make the WS (which I still totally expect a Red Sox and Nats WS) then I will watch the post season like i have done since 2005 - half-heartedly...

Last year, I couldnt watch the NL series at all... I would cringe every time I saw Cards.. I just got so depressed and kept saying 'we needed 1 more out'...

I did watch the AL series... Was rooting for the Yanks with my dad (he is a Yanks and Nats fan)...

Sec. 3, My Sofa said...

Since we have some time, and little to discuss: I think this might apply to baseball as well as cycling; better, maybe, if you substitute "balls" for "bike."

"I think it's just terrible and disgusting how everyone has treated Lance Armstrong, especially after what he achieved, winning seven Tour de France races while on drugs. When I was on drugs, I couldn't even find my bike."
Willie Nelson

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Doc said...
Our Nats are snakebit!

How else do you explain losing to someone named Annabell, which is Spanish for the name Sue, and our very best pitcher throwing a 97 mph heater which is grandslammed by some Mendoza clown hitting .195???

=====

Mendoza clown hitting... lol... bwahahaha... that was hilarious...

Sec. 3, My Sofa said...

Which seemingly you all said the same thing.. but maybe its becuz I am a woman... idk nor do i care at this point...

I think you were just next in line this time. Don't look for reasons, there aren't any.

mick said...



sofa...your post is just not correct...next in line was not the reason. if you were fair, you would scroll back as to what upset me rather than to make a snied post

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

We need to win the rest of the road trip.

mick said...

MNF

If they can win today, winning the series verse Brewers would be fine

mick said...

they may have to win just about every series from here on out. maybe the Reds will slip, I think Pirates and Cards will battle for best record in the NL, one will be in as a WC...maybe the WC is the only way for Nats?

bowdenball said...

mick said...

"If they can win today, winning the series verse Brewers would be fine"

I agree. Three of the next four and a winning road trip would be just fine with me.

I'm not sure whether we should thank the Reds for keeping us on the fringes of the playoff race, or curse them for prolonging the torture instead of just putting us out of our misery.

SCNatsFan said...

MLBTR has the O's looking at Morse. That would make me unhappy.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I see Yadier Molina hurt his knee again. Wonder if tge Cardswould be interested in Suzuki for one of their better minir league pitchers?

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Rays looking at Morse too.

karlkolchak said...

So, just a bit more than three hours to go until the trading deadline and it looks as though the Nats are sticking to their guns and will not be making any trades. That means we are stuck with the current group of players through the end of the year.

I wouldn't bet a wooden nickel on their playoff chances at this point, but in my mind here are five things that need to happen for the Nats to have have any chance whatsoever:

1). Harper needs to go on another April-like tear, and soon.

2). Haren has to revert to being at least an MLB average starting pitcher.

3). Detwiler needs to come back in September not only healthy but looking like the pitcher he was last season.

4). The offense needs to start hitting more home runs to make up for its inability to consistently hit in the clutch (remember the 12 dingers in two games aginst the Cubs last September?).

5). The bullpen needs to settle down, and hopefully someone other than Clippard can be consistently trusted to protect a one run lead.

I could see two or three of those things happening, but not all five.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Harper was doing the team-mately thing last week when he said after the game that Lombardozzi was "a .300 hitter in the majors." If there is another team out there that believes Lombardozzi is an everyday player I wish they'd step up and pay the Nats accordingly because he's not getting it done here, even w/ occasional bursts of productivity.

Lombardozzi might be an every day player on a contending team if the other seven position guys were hitting robustly -- and they could hide his arm at 2B. Unfortunately, this Nats team has too many weak sisters without adding him to the day-to-day lineup -- and all of those seven guys are likely coming back next year.

Theophilus T. S. said...

KarlK --

I pretty much agree w/ your wish list of things that need to happen. And the likelihood that all of them will.

I take issue with the idea that HRs are a substitute for clutch hitting. Today being an example; Comerica is a big part and unless you are Cabrera or Fielder home runs are less likely here than in most stadia.

The BP right now, to my thinking, is under-manned. Abad and Krol are inexperienced and the only guys at all trustworthy in the latter innings of a close game are Clippard and Soriano. This will become a serious issues if they have a bunch of close games back-to-back-to-back during the heat and humidity of August.

karlkolchak said...

Theophilus T. S. - right now, they are on pace to hit about 50 fewer dingers than they did last year. I think that power surge (they hit almost 200 home runs) help mask their other offensive deficiencies, especially down the stretch. In Game 5 of the NLDS, they built their one big lead of that whole series with the long ball, and that was after Werth's memorable walk off in Game 4.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Oh LaRoche. That hurts.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

What a waste. ALR basically let Verlander off The hook. Everyone who put the ball in play hit the ball solidly.

Alphabet Soup Erik said...

LaRoche has been so good this year...I'm shocked.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Interesting first 7 pitches 4 flies.

Section 222 said...

It seems that the Nats' offense is just not consistent enough for the team to go on a long winning streak. It seems much more likely, though still not very likely, that with some very good pitching they could go on a sustained stretch where they at least win series.

The problem is that it's essentially already too late for that to make a difference. If we were to win every single series from now until the end of the year, and split any 2 or 4 game series, we'd finish with only 87 wins. So a serious winning streak is needed, and I'm just not seeing it from these guys.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Its like he is not even. Seeing the ball until it is way too late.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Tigers are an aggressive team... Good inning by Gio...

Adam seems to be reverting back to his April #s...

Nats106 said...

It's Deja Vu all over again. Hope we don't duplicate yesterday's grand slam.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

First time through the line up 1 for 7.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Bryce playing deeper per suggestion from Pete Rose, but the ball high and hitvthe wall, the high part is the suspicious

David Proctor said...

Really Anthony.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Why was Rendon playing for a bunt with 2 strikes.

Rendon2B said...

GAME OVER

MrsB loves the Nats said...

They are hitting Gio pretty hard...

Rendon2B said...

Like really, game over. Nats won't score again. Seen this movie before.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

So is Avila considered a Nats Killer now? Good lord...

SCNatsFan said...

I was on the ALR train from resigning him until the first inning today. One of our 'big bats' continually takes us out of innings. I cannot believe we have to watch him for another year and a half. I'm not sure Morse was the answer at 1B, I don't think Moore is but I am quite certain ALR is not the answer.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Tigers 5 for 9 first time through.

Had he walked the 8th guy would Avils had hit another gnd slam.

SCNatsFan said...

On a bright note we aren't losing close games late anymore

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Oh my lord... are you serious right now...

dang...

David Proctor said...

Sigh...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Davey visits way after damage. What is the point after you let the animals out of the barn?

Wendell said...

Just tuning in - why is Rendon playing 3d?

David Proctor said...

Oh, I guess wild throws are a team epidemic.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Rendon has no shoulder problem. Purely a focus problem.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Zim dh for a break.

joemktg said...

What the hell is going on here?

SCNatsFan said...

You still have 2 hours to sell Rizzo. Get on the darn phone and sell.

It's like watching world com stock fall and Davey keeps saying 'its ok, it will come back".

Grandstander said...

Gamer Headline: Bust

Alphabet Soup Erik said...

This is what Natitude is all about!!! What a team!!!

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

As good as Gio was in the first he was just as bad in the second.

Our first inning could have been just as good if ALR would move tge line instead of lookingvclueless.

That is the difference from last year. Too many hitters slump at too many times, and drag the rest of the team with them.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Gio threw 120 in his last outing.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

We should have scored more runs in that first inning of course....

But Gio seems to be getting behind the count on almost every Tiger (kinda like how Sanchez did against us last night but we only scored 1 dang run)

phil dunton said...

Change Natitude to Suckatude. This team is awful. I was wrong about Eckstein, the problems go way deeper than him. We are dealing with a Washington Wizards situation.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

High fast ball and harper fouls it back. Avila instead deposit it over left field fence. We just miss hitting to many hittable pitches.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

SCNatsFan - I dont think you sell (besides the core - who would be available)

Ghost - Gio normally seems to settle in and get into a groove after the 3rd inning or so... Im not sure if he needs to take more practice pitches or what...

Ivan Tuski said...

"Gio threw 120 in his last outing."-well he's definitely not throwing that fast now

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Hitting philosophy he and Davey love is not good.

David Proctor said...

I have to laugh at all the people who are like "Sell ALR!!"

...because so many people are looking for a .230 hitting 1B. You need two parties to sell.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

JV is really paying Span a lot of attention...

SCNatsFan said...

Mrs B I disagree. We have overestimated many of our players. You keep putting this healthy lineup out there, keep getting beat and expect a change tomorrow gets you what we have - a sub .500 team that bought into the hype that they were good.

Rendon2B said...

Bet Nats score ZERO rest of the game, any takers?

David Proctor said...

At this point, I think ALR is the chief culprit. You can't get this kind of production from your middle of the lineup 1B. Just can't. I can deal with Rendon's slump, but you need production from ALR now. He's killed way too many rallies lately.

Ivan Tuski said...

Phil "I was wrong about Eckstein," if you were wrong about that what makes you think you are right about this?
Really I think we would need another 20 years to compare this to anything like the Wizards situation. This is a team still being built, a franchise still learning to be a franchise. what happened is both forunate and unfortunate. We flip flopped years. This was supposed to be last year where we showed signs of improvement finally finishing above 500 but missing the playoffs. Then this year we would have rolling towards 98 wins. We got all the breaks and streaks and bounces last year and none this year so this is how it plays out. natitude is what you choose to make of it. As much as the team needs to learn to be a major league team, we as baseball deprived fans for 30 years need to learn to be baseball fans. it's not always easy, but it is always baseball. And I for one and happy we have it.

A DC Wonk said...

That is the difference from last year. Too many hitters slump at too many times, and drag the rest of the team with them.

Yep -- I think that's the single most frustrating thing about this whole year. ALR gets hot, and Harper is injured. Werth gets hot, just as ALR gets cold again. And so on and so forth.

It's why we're hitting so low as a team: we are almost never running on all cylinders.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

SC - Okay, so who do you 'sell'

Adam is in a total funk...

David Proctor said...

Right there was a great opportunity. 2 men on. A base hit by LaRoche drives in a run and brings Desi to the plate. Possible 2 out rally. LaRoche strikes out. Those are rallies we start last year. not every time of course, but it feels like it never happens this year.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

LaRoche swing where the ball is. That pitch was probably high but barrell up on it and drive it.

Now 0-3 with RISP. ALR.has 2 of the 3 outs.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

SC - But I do agree that man of the players were over-valued... the Goon Squad is who I think of first... Our bench has also dragged us down... DJ had to keep trotting lines up out where we had at least 3 automatic outs...

I mean the talent is there, its just they cant seem to pull it together, all at the same time...

I remember last year when we hit our peak (May/Juneish), everyone was hot and on fire and we coasted... This year, its like a little fizzle by some and then flat lines by others...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

DC Wonk, well put.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Situational hitting... our Achilles heel...

Did JV purposely pitch around Werth to get to Adam, though?

A DC Wonk said...

Really I think we would need another 20 years to compare this to anything like the Wizards situation. This is a team still being built, a franchise still learning to be a franchise.

Whoa! Dude! You're looking at this with _perspective_?!

That's pretty rare around these here parts!

David Proctor said...

I'll maintain what I've said for the last couple weeks: the core of this team is still good. By that I mean Harper, Rendon, Werth, Zim x 2, Gio, Stras, Desi. I'll put that core up against anyone else's core. The supporting cast isn't good. And that includes ALR who had just been dreadful lately.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Last year the team in general followed the hotte4 hitters.

This year the team is being led by the weaker hitters.

This pitchers generally are a little weaker, but the terrible hitting makes the pitcher's mistakes magnified.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

Rizzo gave the infielders a fish a day with LaRoche instead of teaching them to throw. Its bad.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Gotto make Verlander pay for these walks.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Adam is important to us becuz of his D... Desi and Ryan and Espi/Rendon have gotten better with their throws but he saves our butt many a times...

Its gonna be a growing pain with whomever replaces him...

mick said...

so I appear to be correct, the Wild card seems more doable, Nats only 6 1/2 back of Reds

Ghost lol

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Too many swings and misses.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

0 for 4 RISP

mick said...

David, I would agree that


we have to hope that Rizzo's moves in the off season are not a disaster like this season....the whole key will be the next manager, that is Rizzo's most important decision

Joe Seamhead said...

Worst swing on strike 2 that I've ever seen Rendon take.He is throwing his shoulder out, and not keeping his head on the ball. He is officially in a slump and looking like crap.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

0 for. 5 RISP.

I was wrong we were 1 for 6 first time now 1 for 7 second time.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

MrsB, what D? His range isn't great. His value on defense is scooping poor throws from infielders not doing their jobs.

LaRoche was much better last season but he doesn't win the Gold Glove if Votto wasn't injured and he was 4th in UZR last year.

mick said...

and that is why Rendon needs to sit a few games and refocus, maybe this is where the new hitting coach comes into play...spend some time with him, have him get as much bp as possible, hell, even have him hit off the tee

mick said...

I think ALR may have a medical problem, with the weight loss...I hope he is OK

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

FP finally drilling our point ALR by not driving the ball in irst turned tge game around.

David Proctor said...

12 errors in 55 games for Rendon. Even if he's hitting, that's tough to take. If he's not hitting...that's impossible to take. And that doesn't even include the plays that he should get, but doesn't (like the double down the line earlier).

Of course, it's hard to fault a guy playing out of position. It's just rough.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Who knows as I think the team doctors are worse than the team hitting.

mick said...

just watching the Tigers, I would be floored if the Indians won that division

Joe Seamhead said...

After that last at bat I think Rendon could take a page out of Harper's book and bite his collar.

mick said...

MNF

I hope he is OK


David...excellent point on Rendon

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Ghost - Adam has made some sick plays this year... and saved the in-field numerous times... I think it would have been progressively worst with either Morse or even Moore over there...

1st base is an issue and it doesnt help that he is under-performing (I can understand the argument of maybe this being who he is)

(Im not counting the award becuz I thought Votto should have won it last year) ...

But I am not going to argue about the lack of D as I can understand you saying that... Im just thinking in the sense of his D in helping to save the in-field...

That is why I said it will be a growing pain with whomever comes in to replace him...

But, there was a point when he was hot as heck... now he is cold as ice...

David Proctor said...

Lombo...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Lombo looked worse than Rendon. Easy double play ball goes astray.

Hit what the hell?

mick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mick said...

your making me look bad Lombo

lol

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Gio gets squeezed Lombo does a dance at secobd should be 3 outs then a solid hit.

mick said...

i guess the yiddish word for this is

ovay

MrsB loves the Nats said...

This is embarrassing now... unh...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

The new big 3. Haren, ohlendorf and Jordan.

This last cycle our big 3 have been much weaker than we need.

mick said...

MNF

yup

Joe Seamhead said...

I can't watch this. I'm going to a bar, eat pizza, drink beer.How do you not give Lombo an error on that play that would've, could've, should've been an inning ending double play?

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

RISP 5 FOR 8

mick said...

I hope the team pitching has not fallen apart now? a combination of scoring 1 run a game and giving up more than 5 will not work out too good

David Proctor said...

This will be a very interesting offseason.

mick said...

Joe S


drink a few for me

lol

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Ouch - they are feasting on Gio...

Gio seems like he cant locate his fastball...

paul brandt said...

I wish they had the 10 run rule in MLB.

mick said...

paul

lol ha ha

Alphabet Soup Erik said...

I think Gio might be out for the year with whiplash. Don't light a match!!!

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Gio is not pitching he is just throwing the ball up there


Now 6 for 9. RISP

Take note guys ball over the plate hit the ball so it lansds in the outfield.

Not rocket science

NatsLady said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mick said...

Alphabet Soup Erik said...
I think Gio might be out for the year with whiplash. Don't light a match!!!

on that note...has the final suspension come out yet? if they have, then forget what i am about to ask...is it possible, Gio is nervous or was he found guilty and that is what is effecting him?

NatsLady said...

I understand that Danny was a disaster at the plate. But Rendon came up too soon. Had a lot of reservations at the time because I saw his D in spring training. At first his offense covered it. Now the holes in his game are exposed. He never should have batted 2nd, no matter how many people on here called for it. Doesn't help that Davey expects him to play multiple infield positions.

Most people liked Rendon a lot. So do I. MLB is just not as easy as it looks. I hope he doesn't lose confidence.

Now that's three in a row for our Big Three--losing games. If we are lucky we can sweep in Milwaukee and come home at .500. Forget about this game.

mick said...

biogentics is what I am talking about

SCNatsFan said...

Every week a new 'low point of the year'.

Starters have to be frustrated knowing once the second run crosses the plate odds are they will get a L.

A DC Wonk said...

mick said...

i guess the yiddish word for this is

ovay

Close.

It's "oy vay".

Alas, I agree with the sentiment :-(

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Im surprised Ross O is pitching... Thought DJ would have called Stammen in...

But NL - I originally thought that the line-up (when healthy) was enough to carry DE or the 2nd baseman... But now Rendon needs to adjust... Im not sure if he has changed his batting approach but he needs to adjust...

mick said...

thanks for the correction wonk

lol

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Has anyone else noticed that every time the Nats have "saved" their season and "turned things around" has been after a victory against the Mets?

mick said...

oh my my

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Every Tiger has a hit.

NatsLady said...

10-1 and Cabrera's not even in this game!

mick said...

WOD interesting point, unfortunately, you are correct

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Every season saver followed by crap. That is correct.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Box score is just scary...

mick said...

NL

you had to remind us, that really makes this game a low point


NatsLady said...

Oh, not Ohlendorf... what next?

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Yikes!! uh, Davey .. you think Ohlie is ready for this game? just threw 114 pitches little while ago --

Uh Oh, the big stiff, Ohlie is hurt!!

Rock bottom people. Detroit 21 - Nats 1 (when all is done).

I hope Ohlie is okay and I'm starting to hope Davey's okay too.

A DC Wonk said...

I understand that Danny was a disaster at the plate. But Rendon came up too soon

I'm getting whiplash with all the opinions here!

Danny played too long because of a man-crush on him (even though it was only 44 games, and even though Lombo also had a negative WAR).

And (from last week) Rizzo and Davey stunted Rendon's development by bring him up so soon (even though he played in 1/2 the MiLB games then Harper did).

Now, it's Rendon being brought up too soon.

OK, OK, I know, the above are three different opinions by three different folks.

Which proves at least one thing: being a GM is pretty hard. ;-)

RC said...

is it just me, or do Nats' announcers refuse to be critical of the Nats' play? Are they allowed to acknowledge that they are playing poorly?

I know they are homers, but constantly making excuses constantly for Gio, etc. whey the suck seems patronizing / condescending. "Anyone could allow 8 runs to the Tigers!" etc. when a .178 hitter goes deep.

William O. Douglas Loeffler said...

Mick .... Wild Card!!!


HOOOOOOOOOOOOHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, oh man, you have got me just rolling on the floor, can't stop......Wild Card.......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Oh man, I need to go outside and get some air..... Wild Card, hahahahahahahha

A DC Wonk said...

I hope Ohlie is okay and I'm starting to hope Davey's okay too.

Following the game by comments and box-score.

What happened?!?

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Makes no sense to me. Zimmerman at DH and Rendon plays in the field? Should be the other way around, there, Davey. Rendon is arguably the very worst infielder I have seen in 25 years -- but I've said this before.

And Lombo looking like a Babe Ruth Player? Oh man, this is absolutely nuts

David Proctor said...

Ohlendorf was throwing 85mph fastballs and then got pulled. Looks hurt, although he didn't seem to be in any pain.

mick said...

WOD

OK I get it...probably shouls not have posted that

lol

A DC Wonk said...

RC said...

is it just me, or do Nats' announcers refuse to be critical of the Nats' play? Are they allowed to acknowledge that they are playing poorly?

I know they are homers, but


I agree. I don't mind _intelligent_ and fair homers (Charlie and Dave are pretty good in my book!) . . . . but FP and Bob go a bit too far for my taste. (Just like Dibble went way too far the other way -- always critical in hindsight).

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Ohlendorf leaves game with apparent arm trouble --

David Proctor said...

"Rendon is arguably the very worst infielder I have seen in 25 years -- but I've said this before."

Scouts had Rendon's defense at 3B rated as a plus. It's his 2B defense that has been a disaster. Although Rendon didn't exactly impressed at third today.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

C and D just said his (Ross O) velocity dropped more than 5 mph...

mick said...

FP talking about chesee

"Moe Larry the cheese"

JaneB said...

Yikes this is bad on every level.

A DC Wonk said...

Makes no sense to me. Zimmerman at DH and Rendon plays in the field? Should be the other way around, there, Davey. Rendon is arguably the very worst infielder I have seen in 25 years -- but I've said this before.

Rendon's played his whole career, until the last few months, at 3b.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

This is a 45 minute inning and caused by the Lombo miscue (ruled a hit).

NatsLady said...

MrsB--agreed. A team can carry a light-hitting, glove type fielder if the rest of the guys are hitting. The problem is, they weren't.

mick said...

Wonk

Charlie and Dave are very good, agreed

David Proctor said...

It's only the 4th inning. That's the worst part of this.

David Proctor said...

Is this the worst start of Gio's career? I'm fairly certain it's the worst of his Nationals career.

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Im glad I didnt DVR this game... This is brutal..

Seriously hope Ross O is okay... Esp considering how the back-end of the SP rotation may go...

NatsLady said...

Honestly, I don't care how hight "scouts" had rated Rendon's defense. I saw him with my own eyes, and the game at the major-league level moved too fast for him. That's NOT to say he won't catch up, especially now that he has experience and knows what it takes.

mick said...

Cat ought to take more time off, he does not need to come back to this

David Proctor said...

That's a pretty small sample, NL. How much 3B has he actually played with the Nats?

NatsFanSinceStart said...

wonk not the point (missed)

the point isn't where Rendon is playing; the point is that he is an atrocious fielder - period -- be it second base or 3b

To repeat the point already made but spelling it out more clearly for u: Zimmerman is the better fielding 3b between the two; therefore, Zimm should be playing the 3b position, and Rendon Dh'ng and not the other way around. (phew what an effort for missed logic)

MrsB loves the Nats said...

Finally - this inning is over... unh...

mick said...

may as well get back to work

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