Sunday, October 14, 2012

Can they make it back?

Associated Press photo
Davey Johnson believes his Nationals can return to the postseason in 2013.
The mantra was repeated over and over and over by just about everyone in the Nationals organization: This is a ballclub that expects to be good for a long time and expects to make many trips to the postseason.

And that belief was repeated late Friday night in the aftermath of their soul-crushing National League Division Series loss to the Cardinals.

"We've come a long, long way in a fairly short period of time," general manager Mike Rizzo said. "Like I said all along, we like where we're at. We like the core players on this team. And we're going to be excited to ratchet it up in the spring."

The belief this team just entered a long-term window for success was among the guiding principles behind Stephen Strasburg's shutdown, with Rizzo insisting he wanted the right-hander around for future postseason runs. It's among the reasons nearly every roster move he's made has been to acquire players who could not only help this team win now but in the future as well.

And the Nationals should have every reason to believe they'll be back in the postseason again in 2013 and for several years to come. But they also should have every reason to understand there are no guarantees they'll find themselves in this situation again.

There are plenty of recent examples that seem to support the Nationals' chances of a long, sustained run of excellence, maybe none as comparable as the Phillies of the last half-decade.

After winning their first NL East title in 2007, they immediately were swept in the NLDS by a red-hot Rockies team that went on one of the greatest September/October rolls in history. How did the Phillies respond? They won the World Series in 2008, then returned to the Fall Classic in 2009, the NLCS in 2010 and the NLDS in 2011.

Another potential comparison: In 1995, the Yankees reached the postseason for the first time in 14 years, then lost to the Mariners in a Division Series Game 5 finish every bit as dramatic as what the Nationals and Cardinals just experienced. How did New York respond? By winning four World Series titles in the next five years: 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000.

More examples:

-- The Rangers reached the postseason for the first time in a decade in 2010, reached the World Series two straight years and were poised to win another AL West title this fall before a stunning collapse left them in the Wild Card Game.

-- The Rays came out of nowhere to qualify for the postseason in 2008 and went all the way to the World Series. They didn't get to experience October baseball in 2009 but returned to appear in the ALDS in both 2010 and 2011.

None of those franchises is a perfect comparison for the Nationals, but it does underscore the ability of well-constructed franchises to become regular postseason participants.

There are, on the other hand, examples of teams getting knocked out of the playoffs one year, believing they'd return in future years and failing to do so.

The Detroit Tigers, who went 19 years between playoff appearances, reached the World Series in 2006 and appeared to be built for a long and sustained run. They missed the postseason the next four years, not returning until 2011.

Then there's this sobering stat: Eight of the last 11 World Series winners didn't even qualify for the postseason the previous year. The overwhelming majority of franchises in the Wild Card Era have gone from watching baseball on TV one October to winning it all the next fall.

What does any of that mean for the 2013 Nationals? We won't know for some time.

Yes, they are as well-positioned as any franchise in the majors to make it back to the postseason and become October regulars.

But it's one thing to position yourselves well. It's quite another to actually get the job done.

276 comments:

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Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Redskins won. Ravens with some bad injuries but they at least beat the Cowgirls.

peric said...

Group therapy please.

They are still a very good team ... their record speaks for itself. You're not going to win every series ... and the Cardinals were very tough for them to beat at the end of the year.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Admitted, Clippard/Storen tandem was not as good at the end of this season as they were last year. By no means is either of them "done." Clippard was over-worked, Storen never was completely back from his long stint on the DL. Didn't come back until July 19, for crying out loud. He's never had the greatest command but always had the ability to get three outs. He was shaky a few times in September, got re-appointed closer only because Clippard was shakier. With a little bit better D, or an umpire not willing to make a close call, he was one pitch away from saving the game. Next year, I think he'll be fine. (Clippard, too, if Johnson doesn't work him to death. Not surprised Burnett is hurt; he was in nearly as many games as Clippard -- and where he thinks he'll get more than $3.5MM coming off surgery is a mystery to me.)

For those of you who think that way, the bad news is there's almost no chance of trading either of them for something worthwhile given their late-season ??s. So they will be back, and they will be just fine.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Is this some anniversary of Jose Feliciano being the first singer to dismember the National Anthem and get away with it? Funny . . ., this time I actually was able to recognize it.

Another_Sam said...

Ole you know who is in the booth tonight.

baseballswami said...

Theo - that's funny , I didn't recognize a single phrase. Shoot me now. I turned it on - the "this should be the NATS!!!" feeling was just too powerful. As for Storen, please - after any kind of surgery there will be inconsistency for a while - he was certainly around the plate more than gio. I just didn't think he pitched that badly. The results were terrible, he wasn't walking runs in, hitting people or giving up home runs. The other pitchers had already let the Cards get back into the game and gain momentum. 46 thousand screaming people, the hottest hitters on the planet, tight zone, and he was pitching for the third day in a row under very high stress. A very mentally tough, smart kid - my prediction is that he will as focused as a laser beam next season. Every Nat who played in the series has some looking in the mirror to do. You know, when I fail to be perfect in my job, that many people are not watching me.

peric said...

For those of you who think that way, the bad news is there's almost no chance of trading either of them for something worthwhile given their late-season ??s. So they will be back, and they will be just fine..

They now have a lot of right handed relievers. They are very short on the left-handed side given the NL East. One or two of the five might move. It will be hard to determine which. But one can safely assume that Clippard and Storen could be one if its another Gio type package ... but, they do have lots of other possibilities ... its something to watch.

I suspect that this time it may happen fast because the Nats talent will be highly valued baseball wide ... which wasn't the case in previous seasons.

Whynat said...

Here's a proposition for you. If you could trade with the devil for a closer who was guaranteed to 100% always close out the game, risk-free, never fail, would you take it? Do you think that would increase your enjoyment of the game as a fan? I don't. The risk of blowing it is what makes the game exquisite. For there to be risk, sometimes they have to blow it, even when they give it their best shot.

I'm a big fan of Drew and all the Nats. I for one hope to see Drew blow another big game in the future. Maybe in the WS. Why? If that happens, it means Drew probably had a long career with the Nats, closed a lot of big games, and maybe blew a few of them. That's baseball. You old timers should know that.

Nattering Nat said...

I'm back, briefly.

"NatsLady said...
Not only is Storen not done, if the fans have any sense they should give him a standing ovation on opening day. I will.
October 14, 2012 6:37 PM"

Fully agree. I think Storen threw almost all those pitches where he did on purpose. He hoped to get swinging strikes, as he usually does. BUt not with a veteran club, though he came ohsoclose.

Great idea. I'll be leading the standing ovation for Storen on Opening Day from Section 128. And for everyone else, for that matter.

But I still can't watch the NLCS, since I think the Nats would have beaten the Giants and were slightly better than the Cards, despite the result. I CAN watch the ALCS for short periods. And I was in the car, listening to Redskins post-game, and a caller said he hoped the RGIII 80-yard run and the win would help the fans start to recover from the Nats loss.

Imagine that, a Redskins fan commenting on how a football victory might help Nats fans. That's a testament to the impact the Nats, and that series specifically, has had on this town.

baseballswami said...

Commentators complimenting Drew on his pitches Friday night- said they were wicked sliders and they don 't know how the hitters laid off them . They said Matheny had to watch the game again to see how close the pitches were. He couldn't believe it . Meanwhile, I know you don't want to hear this, but they are at it again, led by Freese. Disciplined at bats. They are putting on a hitting clinic this October- again..

Nattering Nat said...

Constant Reader, you have described the prevailing sentiment at the moment. It's a mourning period; it takes time to recover. My shorthand at the moment is: if baseball is a metaphor for life, at the moment life sucks.

I know it will get better over time. But it was too intense to dissolve right away. Problem is, this is the first season like this in our lives, it's like a first infatuated love, then being jilted. There will be others, but never the same feeling as this. At least, I hope not!!

Nattering Nat said...

No, my attitude is, if the team that beat you goes all the way, sure, you can think you would have instead, but I'd rather know I was beaten by the WS champs than by a team that got lucky and flamed out next series.

Plus, that would make the three-game home series against the Cards next April oh so special, as regular season games go! I bet the place would be rocking again!

Gonat said...

baseballswami said...
Commentators complimenting Drew on his pitches Friday night- said they were wicked sliders and they don 't know how the hitters laid off them .
________________________

First off, the homeplate ump at the most critical time blew it on Molina as the Pitch F/X shows. The 1st pitch to Molina was a strike and changed the whole sequence.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation_io.php-pitchSel=519322&game=gid_2012_10_12_slnmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=78&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif

Candide said...

Only time I would boo a Nats player would be if I thought he was dogging it on a play - not running out a grounder or something like that.

I'll boo Joe West just for sticking his head on the field.

And the Phillies just because it's the right thing to do.

baseballswami said...

Gonat- right. People are talking as though he was throwing the ball to the backstop. He wasn't. I am not hearing that the Nats collapsed, I am hearing that the Cards pulled off some miraculous comeback. The Nats got run over by a bulldozer. I just hate it that some are acting as though Drew was the sole reason we are not still playing.

Candide said...

Whynat, to answer your question with another question, do you think Yankees fans get bored seeing Mariano Rivera coming in in the ninth, night after night?

MicheleS said...

Peric.. The rockies are interviewing Jason Giambi as a possible manager. I think that says enough about them.

Joe Seamhead said...

MicheleS, the Mrs. Is right there with me regarding Ms. Akra! I read her your response.
As to the Pitch F/X, I don't think that I ever want to see it.

peric said...

Okay now its getting ridiculous ... death threats on the Internet to Drew Storen?

Everyone needs to stop and get over this so that the ass clowns out there stop.

baseballswami said...

If you don 't want to see that then you really don't want to turn on the game right now. More of the same- a bit too familiar- déjà vous all over again.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Let's see if Lance Lynn pulls a Gio with a 6-0 lead as he comes to pitch in the 4th

baseballswami said...

Peric- that actually started Friday night. Disturbing.

peric said...

The Nats are good ... actually really good ... they aren't going to fall back to their old ways and lose 100 like that ass clown DJB predicts. Its not going to happen.

These guys now understand what it takes ... it'll be a different, lean, mean, and very focused, mettle tested group of players next spring.

If anything both the AL and NL already fear what the Nats will do next season ... they are just now coming into their own.

peric said...

I didn't know until I saw Needham's tweet about the death threats.

That is really pretty ridiculous ... we're becoming worse than Philthies!
Now we make the Arbutians look civilized ... yikes!

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

No one who tweets crap is worth listening to.

Gio' is even more resonible than Drrw. He had 6-0 lead and then suddenly cant find the strike zone. With that big lead just throw strikes. It is not rocket science.

Whynat said...

Near as I can tell, Mo has a 89% conversion rate for his career, so he's blown 1 out of 10. He is a sure future HOFer. None of these guys are perfect, as much as we wish they were.

Cards are an offensive force. They beat us. It's time to move on.

baseballswami said...

Friday night I got on line, I was devastated. I started reading some of the most vile things I have ever seen. I thought about Drew's parents. Right then and there I went from devastated to merely disappointed. It just all seemed so over the top and ridiculous to be so insane over a game.I love baseball and I really love the Nats, but I hope I never, ever lose perspective to that extent. I decided by 1 am Saturday morning that I was going to support Drew and the team and be proud of their season. There are some sick people out there.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Mo even blew game 7 against Diamonbacks. But at least he made the hit it not walk them.

It was the walks that ticked me off. Make a team beat you dont beat yourself.

Gonat said...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...
No one who tweets crap is worth listening to.

Gio' is even more resonible than Drrw. He had 6-0 lead and then suddenly cant find the strike zone. With that big lead just throw strikes. It is not rocket science.

October 14, 2012 9:46 PM
___________________________________

That's my feeling also. He was barking at the ump and getting all upset and he should only be upset at himself. 4 walks and the WP.

Davey had a slow hook. We've seen that show before with Gio.

Gonat said...

Now 6-4 in the Cardinals game. Lynn just gave up 4 runs with 2 outs in the 4th inning.

baseballswami said...

MNF -- have you been reading here? At least one crucial pitch was not a ball even though it was called a ball. The national baseball media and the Cardinals own manager thought some of Drew's pitches were so close they didn't know how the hitters actually took them. That's not wildness, that's disciplined hitting. More than anything, i hope our hitters have what the Cards hitters do burned into their brains. Our hitters should be like that! Drew followed the game plan and may not have executed perfectly, but he wasn't that bad considering the situation. Some really good, hot hitters beat him, just like Jayson beat a good pitcher the nights before.And right now the Giants are giving the Cardinals a taste of their own medicine 6-4!!! This is easing my pain considerably.

Shark Attack said...

Lance Lynn showing us why we should've walked Kozma...

Gonat said...

baseballswami, their hitters also were content with swinging for singles and not jumping out of their cleats to try to hit it 550 feet.

Gonat said...

And there you go, Lance Lynn is pulled in the 4th inning of a Game 1.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Speaking of slow hook. Bruce Boche too slow removing Bumgarner And Matheney too slow removing Lynn.

They coach with no urgancy. Davey is in the majority.

Regular season you can let it go but every game is important in the playoffs

Gonat said...

Shark Attack said...
Lance Lynn showing us why we should've walked Kozma...

October 14, 2012 9:56 PM
_________________________________

I really think that Davey was so shell shocked by DeScalso's hit that he just "blanked out". Of course he would have walked Kozma if he had time to process it.

baseballswami said...

Gonat- ding, ding, ding, give the man a prize. Move the runners, keep the line moving, work the count. Our hitters made it quite easy for their pitchers. Their hitters made it excruciating for our pitchers.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Gonats Gio in both games allowed aWP score a run as well 4 walks in an inning.

One time shame on him second time shame on Davey. Once he started down hill Davey just let it go.

baseballswami said...

Timmy in relief!! Posters above are correct about Gio. Don't know why he had been give a pass for his part in things. Just because Drew was last, he did not give up those first 5.

peric said...

In other news Nats pitching prospect Aaron Barrett is getting married in a week and then flying right back to the AFL. Honeymooning at that AFL?

Gonat said...

baseballswami, Don't you think the Cardinals watched the Yankees film? It was as if they patterned their ABs after that series.

They worked Gio over. They worked Clip and Storen over.

The one mistake I think Drew made was (excluding the ump blowing Strike #1) was that when the count went to 3-2 he shouldn't have tried for a swing & miss K on a ball out of the strike zone as Molina wasn't biting. I think he needed to throw a quality 2 seamer and let BABIP work in his favor.

Gonat said...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...
Gonats Gio in both games allowed aWP score a run as well 4 walks in an inning.

One time shame on him second time shame on Davey. Once he started down hill Davey just let it go.

October 14, 2012 10:01 PM
___________________________________

In total agreement, from my persepective sitting at the game he was agitated and looked like he was struggling on each pitch.

Why did Davey leave him in there?

Then the real craziness was putting EJax in for a 1 inning perfomance. Why? The guy stinks in his 1st inning of work.

I'm shocked after Gio was pulled and Edwin's one inning of garbage that the score was only 6-4.

peric said...

Timmy in relief!! Posters above are correct about Gio. Don't know why he had been give a pass for his part in things. Just because Drew was last, he did not give up those first 5.

The Nats really only had one typical Nats shutdown pitching performance in that series and that was Detwiler's start followed by JZimm and the rest.

They needed more.

Shark Attack said...

Strike zone so far in this game is far better than any of the ones in our series

NatsNut said...

Yes.


Constant Reader said...
Is anyone else out there just sick to their stomach and having a hard time focusing on anything else because you can't get it out of your head that you should be standing in front of your seat in Nats Park singing the national anthem right about now?

Gonat said...

baseballswami said...
I just can't believe Gio is pulling this crap with a big lead. And no one up in the pen???

October 12, 2012 10:17 PM
________________________________

I was at the game and was just reading the "Game" thread and you and others were certainly writing away during that meltdown 5th inning.

I would have pulled Gio after the leadoff walk. He had nothing and was fortunate to leave the game 6-3.

peric said...

Bryce is home with his now quite large black dog Swag.

peric said...

And so were the players who felt like they weren't ready take off the uni and go home.

That's baseball.

They'll be back.


Yes.

Constant Reader said...
Is anyone else out there just sick to their stomach and having a hard time focusing on anything else because you can't get it out of your head that you should be standing in front of your seat in Nats Park singing the national anthem right about now?

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I was at the game Aug 30 and that the begiing was similar.

After 3 Nats led 6-0.

Top of 4 Gio walked Jay then Beltran then Holliday to ground into double play then Craig flew to Werth.

In the 5Th Molina led off with a double then nect three retired pitching only 2 balls that inning.

In the 6th he gave up 2 singles but again no balls that inning.

in the 7th but only 2 balls that inning.

8Th innings 4 balls but 3 up 3 down.

in 9th most trouble single walk and 9 balls. But 10-0 win when leading 6-0 after 3 so Gio just needed to pitch just about like that again instead of multi walks

peric said...

@needham_chris I'm a baseball fan first :/ This one's a little tough to swallow. Giants are terrible. AL teams terrible. missed our chance.

We aren't underestimating the Giants and the AL teams are we? Assuming this was the Nats best chance to go all the way?

It feeds into the whole faulty circular logic associated with the Strasburg shutdown. That this was the one-and-only chance for a DC team to get to the world series and win. So, Strasburg must pitch.

I refuse to do that. I refuse to see this entire season as negative given all the progress that was made. And that is what I see so many here doing.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Swami I never said Drew was wild. Gio was wild.

Drew kept hitting the same spot but spot didnt make sense as it was being called a ball. most of the balls were in the same spot. Sinceit is not being called a strike another spot seemed obvious.

Gonat said...

Again, I fully believe that if Davey intentionally walks Kozma, Matheny brings in Tony Cruz to pinch-hit and Motte is out of the ball game which puts the Nats in the driver's seat for a tie game going into the bottom of the 9th. The Cardinals were depleted at that point with Werth leading off.

It was right there for Davey with 1st base open to walk Kozma.

peric said...

It was right there for Davey with 1st base open to walk Kozma.

With even more pressure on him, the bases loaded, after already blowing a lead with 2 outs ... Storen gets Tony Cruz? What if everything completely implodes and the guy gets a bases loaded hit?

This isn't helping.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Since I had Mattheus in after the walk to Freese. I certainly have him in for Cruz.

All these managers are afraid to pull the closerr.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Tony Bennett might be pushing 90 but still love hearing jim sing.

Gonat said...

If Drew intentionally walks Kozma and gets Cruz the Cardinals had sitting in the bullpen at the time only left-hander Marc Rzepczynski, Lance Lynn, and rookie Shelby Miller.

Most likely its a repeat of game 4 going into the bottom of the 9th and Lynn faces Werth to lead-off in a tie game.

How do you like those apples!

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I beat the announcers to talking about Tony Bennett.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Tim McCarver needs to go he call Mojeca Naharias (who is on the Giants)

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

I believe Joe Buck hit nail on head these 2 bullpens all are pitching 95+. Our bullpen not raring back they are trying to full you.

peric said...

Our bullpen not raring back they are trying to full you.

Except for JZimmn that's right. AND it may be one reason why you got to see EJax instead of Mattheus because he does have a higher velocity fast ball.

With Storen still recovering, without H-Rod, you're left with a 94 mph and below bullpen. Highest would be Mattheus and Garcia at around 94.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Ejax is ineffective in his first inning so he is not a good choise in the bullpen.

Davey pitching Storen in 8-0 game was another mystery.

peric said...

Ejax is ineffective in his first inning so he is not a good choise in the bullpen.

Yet so many believe Lannan could have made a different in the bullpen against the Cards. You would instead send in a left-hander with a sub 90 mph fastball, an inconsistent sinker? Against the Cardinal right-handed hitters?


Exposremains said...

now that i've seen other elite bullpens, I think this team could get an even better bullpen. Yes Starting pitching got tired, Stras missing but they were still good most of the time and should improvr and have learn from the pressure of playoff. Hittimg was decent some plays like moving the runner is not always done but they will get better.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Can't sleep. Couldn't watch Cards-Giants. Can't believe Yankee fans are a) so apathetic they didn't fill the place and b) are booing Cano and cannot believe some posters here think Drew is done. I've rewatched that ninth inning. I think he made excellent pitches. Cards batters deserve some credit it. But I can't watch them anymore. Wish we were still playing.

I have just GOT to let this go.

peric said...

126 days 7 hours until pitchers and catchers ... think about that instead ...

Anonymous said...

Good article. Bad headline. "Can they make it back"? Heck, they haven't gone anywhere yet. Back from what? Stumbling into winning the division? That was it. They have come a long way. They have a long way to go. Don't make what happened this year bigger than it is. The Nationals got their feet wet. Maybe next year and future years they'll jump all the way in.

baseballswami said...

Going back to Drew's pitches- obsessively, someone said he just should have thrown a strike for a ground ball. Well, when he did that , runs 8 and 9 scored as the ball had eyes. I think this was our taste, our training ground, our motivator. The Nats were starting to slide the last six weeks of the season and did not play well in the playoffs. At some point they had to get in there and see what it 's like.

baseballswami said...

And I am still upset with Davey for taking absolutely no responsibility. The players have. The leader has ultimate responsibility.

NatsLady said...

What is odd is just how bad the starters are getting roughed up, especially with four of the league’s top five rotations represented. Going by ERA, the Nationals had the NL’s best rotation this year, followed by the Dodgers, Cardinals, Reds and Giants. And yet…

Cardinals starters: 2-2, 4.22 ERA
Reds starters: 1-2, 4.30 ERA
Nationals starters: 0-2, 5.25 ERA
Giants starters: 1-3, 6.49 ERA

Outside of Washington’s, the bullpens have been far more effective, which is fortunate since they’ve so often needed to cover five innings per game. The Cards’ bullpen has a 1.80 ERA in 30 innings. The Giants are at 2.51 ERA in 28 2/3 innings.

NatsLady said...

The AL’s best offensive team has a .650 OPS, a mark that would have rated the worst in the major leagues this season. NL starting pitchers are 4-8 with a 4.92 ERA, which is a worse ERA than every NL team besides the Rockies posted this year.

NatsLady said...

The Giants haven’t won a game at home this postseason.
- Carlos Beltran homered again. His postseason line is .381/.492/.848 – for his career.
– Madison Bumgarner’s allowed ten runs in 8 IP this postseason -
— he allowed five in 20.2 in 2010.
—- Then again, neither starter made it out of the fourth in this one.
—– Eleven relievers were used, and only Tim Lincecum (!!!) got more than three outs.

NatsLady said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NatsLady said...

In the end, I found I couldn't watch the NLCS, even on mute, even on Gameday. Too painful seeing those Cards up there at bat--when it shoulda coulda been us. The stats and comments show that the Nats were the equal of any of the other contending teams with the possible exception of the Tigers, who are looking pretty good right now, with Verlander and Scherzer yet to pitch. And better than the Reds or Giants, which I said along were easier opponents than the Cards.

Mark's got a new post up, a forward-looking post. Hope I can let go, hope we all can.

Dave said...

I have to say, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cardinals took the Giants in four or five games. They are looking very good.

Not that I want it to happen, but at least that would confirm that our Nats were beaten, rather than that they blew the game.

Nicky said...

Baseballswami – thank you so much for your post of 3:06 this afternoon.
I have been struggling to deal with sadness after our ninth inning loss. Boswell’s column today was superb and helpful in outlining/ reminding us of the Big Picture. Wasn’t until my heart was broken that I understood the intense passion I have for the Nats and for baseball. I wouldn’t trade this team for the world either.

natsfan1a said...

I found both Boz columns written since the game to be helpful, as well as his chat today. OT alert: that is a beautiful cat. :-)

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