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US Presswire photo Bryce Harper and Adam LaRoche combined for three of the Nats' six homers. |
Then it took only 24 hours for the Nationals to do it again.
And at the end of Wednesday night's 9-1 thrashing of the Cubs, all anyone could do was sit back and marvel at what this suddenly juggernaut of a lineup was able to accomplish.
Twelve homers in two days? It defies logic.
"I don't know what's going on," said Adam LaRoche, who contributed two of them during Tuesday night's win and another on Wednesday. "Whatever we're doing, we need to continue to do it every day. Whether it's the meals we're eating, the cage work, you name it. Just one of those stretches that you can't really explain."
How rare was this accomplishment? So rare it had only happened twice before in the modern era: the 1996 Dodgers and the 2003 Angels.
"It's not going to happen all the time," Danny Espinosa said. "But we definitely have the power potential to do that."
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125 comments:
As I've said before, this Nats team is so much like Davey's mid-80's Mets team. I give him so much credit for their current success. He's so brash and full of bravado and it rubs off on the team. This confidence translates to mashing at the plate. God this team makes me so happy! Appreciate this boys and girls--it's Rare! We are so lucky. Just ask Cubs fans.
Three teams in the modern era have hit six or more HRs in two consecutive games but only one, the Nats, did it in the modern, post-juicing era.
Incredible stuff. Prior to the season opener, I was convinced that the Nats needed one more 'legitimate bat' to be a real playoff contender. Then two things happened: (1) Adam LaRoche came back from last year's season-ending surgery much, much stronger than I ever expected; and (2) Bryce Harper turned out to be able to fill that additional 'legitimate bat' role much sooner than I anticipated. Because tonight's game sure didn't suggest the need for any more 'bats' given that the Nats had three good ones -- Jayson Werth, Tyler Moore, and Steve Lombardozzi -- who never even got off the bench. Again, just incredible to watch. Keep it up, keep the pressure on, and wrap things up nicely and definitively tomorrow. GYFNG!
Went out after, so just got home.
Goodness gracious me. You know, I think this post's title sums things up just about perfectly.
Zowie.
"How rare was this accomplishment? So rare it had only happened twice before in the modern era: the 1996 Dodgers and the 2003 Angels."
In other words, it happened during the peak of the steroids era. Other than that, it never happened.
I kind though Bryce Harper would come around eventually and go on a tear. Just a little surprised it didn't happen sooner.
Davey does a pretty good job of player development with the top prospects. It kind of emptied out the AAA club of talent as Zach Duke mentioned but the prove is in the pudding. Sure seems like a vindication of Davey's savvy when it comes to top prospects.
Nice to see you, D'Gourds.
Okay, everybody: which was your favorite homer?
I pick Harper's to left. I never got up and cheered for the poor kid, because I was still shocked at what that boy had just done.
Oh, I just realized. After each tater, Harper seemed to do some pointing thing. Now y'all tell me his folks were there. Are these two facts related?
It's been so much fun watching these guys on MASN the last two nights. Now I hope they have some home runs left when we watch at the park tonight.
Yeah, scooter- he was pointing at his folks.
I got to the stadium early enough to watch part of Cubs batting practice. My friend and I agreed that the ball seemed to be carrying--little did we know.
The funny thing is that before the game I was bummed that I had chosen to go to this game and not the one before and had missed all the fireworks.
Every time one of the part time players gets an opportunity, they run with it. It could be Lombo when Desi was out, Tyler Moore getting a start and going yard, Bernie starting and having a great game - there is no let down. Last night Tracy came in the game late at first and made a really good pick out there. The last two nights have left me dazed. I also bless the day Mark Buerhle decided he would rather go to Miami and play for Ozzie Guillen than come to DC and play for Davey. Gio - just sayin'
Nice Led Zep reference, Mark. It was Werth's walk-up music that did the trick. :-)
Scooter, yes, FP said the kid was pointing to his parents.
On a game note, I liked all the dingers, and I'm so, so, so glad we got Gio. Love him and all our guys.
As noted in previous thread, will be off the grid for several days. May read a blog post here and there if I can, and will definitely be checking the box scores. Here's my blanket wish to cover me: Go, [Nats starter o' the day]! Go, NATS BATS!!
And they've put it all together over the last two nights to leave the Cubs dazed, confused and curled up in the fetal position, begging to be spared.
Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet.
I love quotes, this is the best one I've heard in a long time.
“This is by far the best team that we have played all year,” Cubs Manager Dale Sveum said after the Nationals’ 9-1 win
This from that "goofey" Wapo beat guy....
peric said...
I kind though Bryce Harper would come around eventually and go on a tear. Just a little surprised it didn't happen sooner.
Davey does a pretty good job of player development with the top prospects. It kind of emptied out the AAA club of talent as Zach Duke mentioned but the prove is in the pudding. Sure seems like a vindication of Davey's savvy when it comes to top prospects.
September 06, 2012 2:37 AM
___________________________________
I'm kind of surprised his slump was so long and his hot-streak has coincided with Werth going into the lead-off.
Interesting, Werth-Harper-Zim
No NJF, I do not jump over to comcast, but thanks for pointing that out...
I was one of those posters "concerned" that Gio's numbers may not translate well in thinking he would get a bump from American to National League but lose in the stadium configuration.
The big difference is of recent where he has stopped nibbling and cut down on the walks, pitches per inning, and the frustration factor.
He is a 1/2 run better than Buehrle.
I think Gio has five starts left, at least four so getting to 20 wins is a realistic goal at this point. His opponents will likely be mets, braves, brewers, and phillies twice.
We were supposed to go to Tuesday's game, but had to exchange the tix for the Weds game due to a social obligation. Man, I was bummed out, what missing the six home run onslaught, and all. Well,well, my,my.Rock and roll will never die! Twelve homers in two days? 32 games over .500? Magic numbers being discussed by a Washinton baseball team and it's not about when they will be eliminated from the race?
Got to meet SJM308 last night. There's no wiping the smile off of his face,either. It looks like someone sewed the corners of his lips to his ears! We also met FP in the elevator and let him know how much we are enjoying his color. A pretty, pretty,pretty good night, I'd say!
'one that keeps finding new ways to impress and keeps finding new victims to pound into submission.' I remember when it used to say 'keeps finding new ways to lose ballgames'. So glad those days are behind us.
Old business....
Section 222 -
Sorry for the late response on this, but I just saw this from earlier in the day. For what it's worth, there was an online discussion with one of the reporters from Baseball Prospectus earlier this year. He said that he had called MLB and and asked them if bonus tickets like Red Carpet Rewards were counted toward paid attendance and he was told they ARE counted.
He said he was told any kind of ticket for which money changed hands, like a two-for-one sale or a bonus program like Red Carpet Rewards, counts toward paid attendance. Purely complimentary tickets that are given away with no charge at all do not count as paid attendance.
FWIW, tickets received from RCR redemptions and from STH exchanges carry a face value of $0 - as do comp tickets. So perhaps they are accounted for the same way when paid attendance is calculated. But really, if you're not the team's accountant or an IRS auditor, who cares?
Yea! Got a free ticket from the boss, so I will be going tonight! Keep the line moving boys, want to see you go for the jugular!
And on another note, The Fish have a magic number. It's 2. Oh how I would love to stick it to them this weekend and eliminate them.
BRYCE news: reminder, he is on ESPN980 at 1:15.
Snopes, saw your post this morning. Thanks for the additional info. Feel may be right that since you don't "pay" for RCR tickets, they are treated as freebies. That would distinguish them from 2 for 1 or $2 Tuesday deals. My rep gave RCRs as the explanation for how there could be a "sellout" when they paid attendance was 39,000 and change, well under capacity at Nats Park. But who knows. If you have a link to that Baseball Prospectus discussion, I could send it to my ticket rep to see what he thinks.
Here's to JayB, who persistently jabbed about the importance of the bench, and insisting you can get a good one. I was one of the doubters--not about the importance of good bench, especially in the National League--because I didn't know how to assemble one given my assumption that most good players don't want to sit on the bench.
Well, I guess you get a good bench from (1) hunting around in unlikely places (Tracy); (2) rookies who "overperform" (Lombo and Moore); (3) talented underachievers who figure it out (Bernadina).
BTW, on the radio yesterday Rizzo went on for several minutes about DeRosa's value, and not just in the clubhouse...
davey-johnson-says-nationals-bench-is-among-the-best-he-has-managed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2012/09/05/davey-johnson-says-nationals-bench-is-among-the-best-he-has-managed/
I think its a shame that MASN's coverage never shows interesting things going on off the field. Granted it can be overdone, but I would have liked to see M/M Harper's reaction to their son's accomplishments last night, something that would have happened with pretty much any other network coverage.
You get free tickets for the Blood Drive and Food Drive. How are those counted?
Ex-Nats report: Xavier Nady pulled a hamstring, so the Giants are looking for a left-fielder again...
NCN--agree. OTOH, the national cameras made the stadium look like it was 50% Cardinals fans on Saturday. I know there are some Nats fans in the Atlanta area, let's represent!
NatsLady,
He didn't Jab about the importance of a strong bench. He repeatedly berated Rizzo for failing to assemble a good bench. Every time the Nats lost more than 1 game in a row there he was with the same refrain.
Yeah, Rizzo really failed. didn't he?
I'm going Friday using food drive tickets... they have a face value of $1.00 - don't know if that means they count toward "paid" attendance though.
Nats have 26 games left, Atlanta 25. If the Nats win half of their games, Atlanta must go 20-5 to catch them.
Theo, Good perspective and if the Nats go 17-9 the Braves would need to go 25-0. Key is for Nats to keep winning and that's how you take care of business.
If there is any dollar value on the ticket like $1.00, someone paid for that ticket and it goes towards paid attendance. Many times it is a charitable trust. Many teams charitable arms will do the same in purchasing deep discounted tickets for giveaways.
Player comps, team comps, do not count towards paid attendance.
The Nats announcing that 1/2 the stadium will only be available for season ticket holders is surprising. You would think they would want that closer to 30,000.
Dodgers choke again last night. The Padres are quickly becoming spoilers. Played tough against the Braves, Giants and Dodgers.
A little perspective on the power barrage - they weren't exactly facing Koufax and Bob Gibson out there, more like a group of minor leaguers auditioning for Cubs' management. Reminded me of the Nats not so long ago, when they seemed to be bringing in pitchers willy-nilly to see if any of them were any good.
That said, Harp has found his stroke and rediscovered LF. If he could play against that Cubs staff every day, the kid would hit 100 dingers. The way he is going, he actually has a chance to catch Conigliaro.
If Harp isn't ROY there should be investigation.
Looking for the re-run of last night's game on MASN/Comcast this am. Here's what I find using Comcast's search function:
62 - MASN - Baltimore at Toronto
247 - MASHD - Baltimore at Toronto
845 - MASHD - Baltimore at Toronto
Switching to channel 844, the usual MASN2 HD slot, gets me to ESPN news.
I hope Peter Angelos's team loses every single game for the rest of the season. Failing that, I want to see them fall out of playoff contention ASAP PDQ.
NatsJack, the 2nd Wild Card may need 87 to 90 the way things go. It will come down to Atlanta, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and either LA/SF.
Could the Phillies sneak in? Now that they took 2 of 3 from Cincy, they have a clear path of the worst teams in the NL over the next 14 days. I could see them going 11-2 in the next 2 weeks (Colo, Mia, Hous, NYM) then they face Atlanta for 3 games then the Nats for 3 games then finish the year with Miami and the Nats.
With Philly's 9 remaining games vs. Atlanta and Nats, that's the buzz saw possibly but I think they will make it interesting with the easiest part of their schedule the next 2 weeks.
I could easily see them 77-73 in 2 weeks from now with 12 games remaining.
Listening to Atlanta sports talk radio recently, I was surprised to hear almost all negative comments. Callers were asked: "Will the Braves win a wild card and how far will they go in the playoffs?" NO ONE even mentioned winning the division. And 7.5 game leads have been overcome in the past (the Braves should know!)
Also discussed was the expected roster turnover this winter: Chipper gone, McCann and Uggla in horrendous slumps, Hansen with chronic shoulder ailment, Hudson aging.
Our future in the NL East looks bright!
Laddie, you have me laughing only because its so darn true.
That was Harp's 2nd oppo boppo HR this year. Hard to believe. That's what he needs to be doing to get those inside pitches in his meatball zone.
These side stories like Harp and AdaMVP and the fact that Gio reinjected himself into the Cy Young fray is unreal.
Keep in mind, Ken Griffey Jr. came in 3rd in R.O.Y. voting. I think Wade Miley (25 years old) is one of the front-runners for that award right now and Todd Frazier (26 years old) is the other. I think if Harper gets that batting average up over .270 he is a lock against guys who are 7 years older than him.
fast eddie, what about Michael Bourn? He may not be there. What will Freeman be like with no protection in the lineup?
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
The Nats announcing that 1/2 the stadium will only be available for season ticket holders is surprising. You would think they would want that closer to 30,000.
Why? Season tickets are sold at a steep discount relative to single game prices. And in addition to the ticket price differential there are lost opportunities to collect service charges when single game tickets are bought online - which the vast majority probably are. If they "get the attendance they deserve" they make a lot more money when tickets are sold on a single game basis.
Also, a sizable chunk of season tickets are bought by speculators, who then capitalize by selling individual game tickets on the secondary market at a hefty markup. Those are profits that the team could be getting if they sell those seats themselves on a single game basis. There is really no way for the team to prevent speculators from buying season tickets, so this 20,000 cap is probably a way to limit that as much as possible.
Basically what the Lerners are doing here is saying "We know this team is going to be good and sell a lot of tickets. We want to make sure that as much of that money as possible stays with the team." I see nothing wrong with that. There's no way of knowing for sure that the Lerners will plow their profits back into the team. But you know damn well that the scalpers won't.
Whether it was the DNC, the start of school, the weather, the Cubs, or whatever, my ticket group was less enthusiastic about this series than others, and we had a bunch of RCR tickets to use too, so I decided over the weekend that I'd head out to Nats Park for the T-Th games. I felt like a bit of a martyr.
Boy am I glad I did it. I've never seen anything like the power display we've shown this week. Last night, when Harper ripped the ball to right on his first AB, I said to my friend, "he's going to do something tonight." But two dingers? I never would have called that. The second was just smoked -- he has the most violent swing I've ever seen. LaRoche, on the other hand, has the sweetest swing. Just easy going and the ball jumps off his bat.
The team played solidly in all phases, but with that kind of hitting it hardly mattered. And what can you say about Gio -- fresh off his complete game shutout he throws another gem. I loved his expression and attitude after giving up the first hit. No let up there -- the guy is determined. I can easily see him winning more than 20 games this year, but more importantly, he's going to be nails in the playoffs.
Ok, enough of the happy talk. That idiotic email from the Lerners is making my head explode. But that's for my next comment.
Folks, the Phillies are not going to win the wild card spot. They may yet be a thorn in our patoot before it's all over, which I doubt , but the Cards have 6 games against the Astros, 3 against the Cubs, plus series against the Pads and Brewers.I'm not saying that the Cards will win the WC either, but the Phillies won't even catch them. Too little, too late. And they don't really scare me in remaining head to head games against the Nats.
Atlanta is streaky. Hence the pessimism. From the Journal
Over the past 17 games, the Braves have hit .220 and posted a 3.90 ERA while scoring 55 runs. This coming immediately on the heels of a seven-week stretch in which the Brave had a 28-10 record while hitting .248 with a 2.78 ERA and 189 runs.
Yes, the ERA is more than a run higher in the past 17 games than in the previous 38. But the Braves have averaged slightly more than 3.2 runs per game during the 6-11 slide, after averaging 5.0 runs during the previous 38 games. And even that 3.2-run average is a bit misleading, at least in terms of what they’ve been doing recently.
The Braves have scored 24 runs in their past eight games, and 14 of the runs came in consecutive wins Sunday-Monday vs. Philly and Colorado. They totaled 10 runs in the other six games during that 3-5 stretch, including two shutout losses.
The low attendance this week has its upside as well. Last night, I got a ticket to tonight's game in section 220 - Stars and Stripes club seats - for twenty bucks, including all the extra charges for "convenience fee," "delivery fee," "processing fee," "extra dealer markup," "clearcoat paint," and "certificate of indemption."
Four tix in section 212 (I think) were listed for about $40.
Supply and demand, baby, supply and demand. God, I love the capitalist system!
NatsJack, they needed to take 2 of 3 from the Braves and 2 of 3 from the Reds and they did that. Its a huge longshot for the Phillies but 2 weeks from now you will see that they will be at 77-73 or 76-74 as they are playing like a team that is playing with confidence and urgency.
Its that last 12 games that will be tough.
You just never know. I could see them facing in the last series against the Nats pitchers like Wang and Duke.
222 said: "LaRoche, on the other hand, has the sweetest swing."
===================
I've written this before, but the more I watch the more Adam LaRoche's swing reminds me of Fred Couples. Okay, it's baseball vs. golf and left-hander vs. right-hander, but their swings are -- as you say -- sweet. They seem effortless, yet produce prodigious shots. And they do it with such nonchalance; almost like they'd rather be somewhere else. You almost get the feeling that Mr. LaRoche might share Mr. Couple's approach to a ringing telephone -- 'Why answer it? Someone might be on the other end' (or something to that effect).
If Harper reaches 20 HR, .270+ and 60+ RBI then, w/ his defense (see yesterday's WaPo) I think he gets ROY. Frazier, hitting nos. notwithstanding, has not consistently played one position and has not made a reputation on defense. Plus, he is 26 and,even though technically a "rookie," the league got a pretty good look at him last year and the voters will have to be wondering whether 2012 is the real deal.
Joe, I don't disagree because the 2nd Wild Card should be the Cardinals and they are at 74 wins right now with 25 games to go BUT look who they play going forward and especially their next 10:
Tough Brewers
Hot Padres
Struggling Dodgers (4 games)
Easy Astros
Easy Cubs
Easy Astros
THE NATS
THE REDS
Theo, I wish I had a vote. I would be fair but I'm also a homer!
The season-end series against the Phillies will be one for the psychoanalysts. By this point, the Phillies will be out of it and, my guess, the Nats will have clinched. Reverse of last season. Will the Nats send out the scrubinis? Will the Phillies be aching for revenge against somebody? Anybody?
Also my guess, a Phillies team w/ nothing to play for will curl up in their sleeping bags and refuse to come out until ST. Manuel has had a difficult time motivating them thus far and it won't get any better after they are officially eliminated from everything.
Johnson can't trot Wang and Duke out there, unless he's trying to set up someone in particular -- G. Gonzalez or Zimmermann -- to start Game One of the NLDS. He'll have to try to keep his starters in their regular rotation spots.
How's about what is going on in the NL West. The Giants pitching can't carry them and with every loss, the Dodgers can't take advantage and find a way to win.
The Pirates finish the season with the Braves. That could have playoff implications if the Pirates take advantage of the 7 vs. the Cubs, 3 vs. Astros and 4 vs. Mets.
Theo, this is why we watch the games! All the story lines the last month.
Section 222 and Feel Wood -
I don't know what the correct answer is on whether Red Carpet Rewards tickets count as "paid attendance." So I'm not arguing with anyone, just curious about what the answer is.
Here's the link to the exchange on Baseball Prospectus:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=16619
Since that's a paid subscriber-only site, let me also excerpt the relevant part of the discussion:
FlemSnopes [aka "me"]
(32674)
The Nationals have created a huge barrier for themselves in increasing attendance. Season ticket holders get "Red Carpet Reward" points, which basically give you one free game for every two games you pay for. So free tickets are around by the bushel, and many of these end up going unused. So basically there is a hidden oversupply of already sold tickets in DC, which will have to be soaked up before paid attendance increases.
From my subjective perspective (I've been to four Nats games and watched all but one on TV), Nats actual attendance, measured by people really coming to the game, is up significantly. The no-shows seem to be much lower this year than in any year in the new park. But since they're mostly using tickets that have already been sold to season ticket holders, it doesn't really show in the attendance figures.
Apr 23, 2012 07:37 AM
------------------------------------
Maury Brown
BP staff
(29778)
The league informs me that in these packages where free tickets are "given away" they are counted as paid attendance and are really seen as a "discount" not "free".
So...
The paid attendance numbers for the Nationals include those "free" tickets.
Apr 23, 2012 14:05 PM
--------------------------
FlemSnopes
(32674)
Right, that's what I thought. But the season ticket owners tend to view them as "free" and readily give them away. So for almost all games, there are lots of free and heavily discounted tickets floating around. For many games last year, even the meaningful games on the final weekend of the season, I couldn't even give away all the remaining "extra" tickets that I had.
Until those "surplus" tickets disappear, the Nats won't be selling a lot of full price tickets.
Apr 23, 2012 14:33 PM
From one of my favorite former Nats, Alfonso Soriano:
"It's a totally different team. They are in first place right now. They have a very good team. They have a good starting rotation, bullpen. They have a good offense and defense. I think they have a very good chance this year because they have a good team."
"I'm happy for Ryan and the city, too. I played here in 2006, but I'm happy more for Zim because he is a great guy, has very good talent in baseball. I was a teammate of his. He is now a contender. He has a chance to win everything, so I'm happy for him."
snopes1, that's a good point you make on those Red Carpet tix that are part of an STH incentive.
Ghost of SteveM. Like I said, I'm not conceding the 2nd WC to the Cards, as the Dodgers and Pirates are also still very much in the thick of things. I'm only saying that the Phillies won't get it.
GYFNG!!!
BTW, Sec311 picked up on 315's cheer last night.
N-A-T-S NATS!NATS!NATS!
Feel Wood,
You make good points about season tickets, except this: "Season tickets are sold at a steep discount relative to single game prices." is completely wrong. The discount is only a couple bucks per game.
Nominally, that's true, if you look at the pricing table. But that is not the full story, due to the fine print about "market based pricing." What that means is that for high-demand games the single game prices go higher than what is shown in the table.
Also, the difference is only a couple of bucks per game for the cheaper seats. When you get down into the lower bowl, it gets as high as $15 per game. And that's at 2012 single game prices. 2013 single game prices are surely going to be higher, while current and new STH who commit now for 2013 can lock in at 2012 prices. Therefore, in 2013 the difference between season ticket price and single game price is guaranteed to be much more than a couple of bucks per game.
Nice article about Davey as manager. The anti-Bobby Valentine.
Davey Johnson
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120905&content_id=37962616&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb#disqus_
Joe, nor do I think the Phillies have a shot as it would take a miracle BUT they will make it interesting with their easy schedule the next 2 weeks and get in the discussion if the Cardinals, Pirates, Dodgers all continue to struggle as they have.
When Wellington Castillo was arguing a third called strike with the ump, did anyone else yell out "What's your beef, Wellington?"
I'm pretty sure he heard me from up in Sec. 317 and it rattled him pretty good.
http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB?vid=0404ffc5-311d-4cb9-af32-d23ddfd17568
For all those who rode Ken Rosenthal on Twitter, he has made a Nats video for us Nats fans!
Give it a watch!
The Nats and Cubs have one common off-day (Sept 13). I hope all the rain is gone by game time. The team can probably skip batting practice. :)
Stew -
Beef Wellington! LMAO That should be his nickname!
NatsJack in Florida said...
Gonat...I seem to recall a certain poster saying that the Nats should consider putting Bryce on the 15 day DL about 3 or 4 weeks ago
And I'm sure you'll recall (just before the all start break) there was a bunch of yammering that RZ should do that same.
Not to mention how many were screaming that Espi needed to be sent down to the minors, and that Davey and Rizzo were sticking too much with "their guys" because of ego.
I'm sure that _that_ kind of whining has mostly disappeared these days!
NatsLady -- thanks for the Davey link.
My little addition: Davey for Manager of the Year.
Wonk, there is a difference between long slumps that can be helped by a MiLB stint and calling for a player to be DFA'd and making it personal.
I think NatsJack is referring to the haters.
Here's Bryce's 2 week sprint:
.347/.396/.735/1.131
Here's hoping he keeps up that pace for the rest of the season and post-season!
Ghost
"Keep in mind, Ken Griffey Jr. came in 3rd in R.O.Y. voting. I think Wade Miley (25 years old) is one of the front-runners for that award right now and Todd Frazier (26 years old) is the other. I think if Harper gets that batting average up over .270 he is a lock against guys who are 7 years older than him."
Miley and Frazier should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Harp, even though they are. Ask any NL GM which of those 3 he would like on his team, and the vote would be unanimous. Put it another way - suppose Rizzo lost his mind and offered Harp in a trade, straight up, for either Miley or Frazier. No other GM in his right mind would turn down an offer like that, for good reason.
Harp is not just having a good year for a 19-year-old, he is having a historic year. He has found his groove at just the right time, and I can see him going on a tear just as he did in the middle of the AFL season last year.
The kid is not just smoking the ball, he is becoming a plus defender in the OF, where he has made significant strides as a defender, and he is among the most exciting and effective base runners in the game, already. No one goes to a game to see Frazier or Miley run the bases, but people get ramped up just seeing Harp on 1b.
No disrespect to Frazier, but he is, basically, a 26-year-old utility man who is padding his stats by hitting in a notorious bandbox against the weak pitching found in the NL Central division. Solid player, but no Harper. It's laughable just putting them in the same sentence. Miley has the stats of a 25-year-old middle of the rotation SP. Neither Frazier nor Miley will accomplish much nor be long remembered. Baseball people will be talking about Harp for generations to come.
I figured he might catch Ott to become the all-time teenaged HR hitter in NL history. Now that seems to be foreordained, unless he gets hurt, and Canigliaro suddenly seems within range, as well. And Tony C played in Fenway, a RH power hitter's dream venue. Harp is hitting moon shots and lasers that would go out, anywhere, and Nats' Park is no bandbox. Even if he just ties Tony C, that would be a greater feat than Tony's 24.
I am so impressed with that kid. The ROY voters should hang their heads in shame if they pass him up as ROY.
Ghost: That was a good post about Mr. Soriano; I noticed that he and Ryan Zimmerman were having a nice, friendly chat at 3rd the other day. One the things I appreciate about baseball is that the players (most of the time) understand it's just a game, not a 'life or death struggle for supremacy' (as in the NFL). I know it irks some people, but I like the fact that there's amiable banter on the field. As George Carlin explained so well, baseball's a game played in park by guys who just want to get safely home at the end of the day, not a metaphor for imperial conquest.
I assume most of the folks reading this site are on the Nats mailing list, but for those who aren't, you should check out the email they sent last night from "the Lerners."
It claims that the Lerners are going to limit season ticket sales to 20,000 because they want to make sure there are plenty of tickets to se the Nats available for people who don't want to get season tickets. Oh, and by the way, hurry and get your season tickets while they last so you don't get shut out.
It sounds like Feel believes them, but I think it's complete and utter bull hockey. My take is that the big push to boost the STH base by using this year's playoff tickets as the carrot isn't going as well as they hoped. So they're trying to create some urgency with this "they're going fast, better get yours now before it's too late" message.
How embarrassing to enlist the team owners to write such a transparently disingenous letter. Not to mention insulting to the intelligence of the DC baseball community. Everyone knows that other than a big TV contract and sold out luxury boxes, a large STH base is the key to solid financial footing for the team. After a week of average attendance in the low 20s, does anyone really think that the Lerners expect every game to be a near sellout next year if the STH base is limited to 20K? Not a chance.
Second, if STH sales were going swimmingly, why didn't they just wait to get their 20K and then write an email saying, "thank you DC, we've got 20K STHs and we're cutting it off now so average folks will be able to buy tickets."? What do they care which 20K of the supposedly limitless number of interested buyers got in the door first? (And by the way, scalpers and ticket brokers are on their email list, and can buy single tickets just as easily as average folks. There is no way that this is an effort to corral for the Lerners some of the profits made by those guys.)
The fact that this supposedly selfless devotion to the average single game purchaser was combined with a sales pitch is a dead giveaway that they aren't being honest. I think that's pathetic.
Now Feel claims that they actually don't want an overabundance of STHs because they make more money on single game ticket sales. Single game ticket prices are between 10% and 25% more expensive than the equivalent STH seat. Let's be generous to this argument and use 25%. (That's the markup for a dugout box seat ($60-$75), but the RF/LF corner seats markup is just 20%, Club Seats 18%. The very high end seats have even smaller markups). So if the average per ticket STH price is $50, the average ticket at the gate would $62.50. With 40,000 seats, that means that a sold out STH park grosses $2 million and a sold out at the gate park grosses $2.5 million.
The Lerner's email implies that they could sell out the whole place with STHs, but out of the goodness of their hearts they are going to save half the seats for the average fan to buy single game tickets. If that were true, they'd have to average 16,000 single ticket sales per game to break even. Even assuming they think they could sell 30,000 seats to STHs, and so will cut out just 10,000 people who want to buy season tickets, the first 8,000 fans who buy tickets for a single game would simply be getting them to where they would otherwise be. I just don't think the argument that this is a smart economic decision for the Lerners is plausible given the current attendance situation.
It's pretty clear that they aren't going to turn away 10,000 possible STHs with this policy, or even 2,000. It sounds to me like they'll be lucky to get to their supposed 20,000 limit. This email is right up there with the one sent by the Netflix CEO last year as the dumbest ever.
"I've written this before, but the more I watch the more Adam LaRoche's swing reminds me of Fred Couples."
Wait 'til you get a look see at Anthony Rendon. He makes ALR look like Harper in full hat-bouncing, corkscrew torque mode. Rendon is Freddie Couple in baseball gear.
Laddie, I am with you but the voters have minds of their own and often don't get it right. My vote is Bryce Harper because doing what he is doing at 19 years old is almost beyond compare.
Sports Illustrated 2 weeks ago didn't even have Bryce in the top 3. The catcher from Colorado was their #3 after Frazier and Miley.
"Sports Illustrated 2 weeks ago didn't even have Bryce in the top 3. The catcher from Colorado was their #3 after Frazier and Miley."
That was before Harp's latest hitting binge. Besides, you and I have it right, and SI has it dead wrong.
222, not sure why you would be bothered by that email. Its time to get the push going. Everyone saw Tuesday's attendance and I'm sure it was the perfect time to make a push by the Marketing people.
Great post on Harper Laddie. You're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with Harper not winning ROY. He could be an MVP candidate next year and for the next five years after this. Neither Miley or Frazier will even be in the running.
Snopes, thanks for the further info on paid attendance and RCR. Sounds like the BP reached his conclusion based on what an MLB source told him about the general policy. I'm going to forward the exchange to my rep and will let you know if he answers. But his response was to my direct question about RCR tickets and I don't think he would have answered my question if he didn't know for sure. We'll see.
Laddie, SI was also talking Chapman and Kimbrel in the Top 5 of Cy Young with Cueto and Dickey.
section 222.... I agree with you 100%. I really hate to post this during this glorious season and I have been impressed with the Lerners willing to pay and willing to stay the hell out of Mike Rizzo and Davey's way. But, my fear is that their usual way of conducting business over the past 50 years and their very poor and at times classless public relations skills will creep into the Nats over time. I just pray that they will continue to do what they have with the Nats. Just when I think that they get it or had an Alastair Sim moment (best and most authentic Scrooge scene of redemption 1950 Christmas Carol) they pull this crap.
anyway.... its great to be a NATS fan and in the famous words of George Clinton to the Cubs... if you ain't goin get in on take your dead a-- home, LOL
Ghost, I'm bothered because I don't like the team owners lying to me. Andrew Feffer, fine, we're used to that. (Remember the fireworks/submarine horn?) Even Kasten. No one took what he said at face value. It was all hype and marketing. But for Lerners to act as if they are doing the fans a favor when they are actually just part of the marketing push -- that's pathetic, and smacks of the Netflix debacle.
We're baseball fans. That means we're smart, not idiots.
You're mileage may vary as 1a is want to say. Just expressing my opinion and making sure everyone has the email to take a look at.
mick, just roll your eyes like I did when I got it. It was clearly a piece percipitated by the horror of 17,000 on Tuesday night.
A marketing fail but no big deal but I do think that Season Tickets will rise significantly and it may bite them in the butt when you start turning away Corporate buyers. It may be a way to sell the remaining Suites to the corporations.
agreed Ghost
222, I hear you. Every time a team owner opens their mouth its usually for a purpose.
Owners should only be heard from when hoisting a trophy.
Ghost...well said, Jack Kent Cooke (when the Redskins were the real Redskins) and Pat Bowlen (Broncos) comes to mind
This is why I can't stand Leonsis. Shut your mouth and win. Hoist the Stanley Cup and then you can talk but until then, we want to see the players and hear from the GM.
Same goes for all the other owners. How do you think it will go for Magic Johnson if the Dodgers don't win?
1a may be more wont to agree than you think.
Re Harper for ROY, I think it's hard to get yourself back into a discussion once you're out, and he may also be working against the current, still, of ... well, Harper-hate may be harsh; let's call it "people he seems to rub the wrong way."
Aw, who am I kidding? They're haters.
Ghost.... the jury is still out with me on Leonsis, I think he means well and he has done everything he can to get the Caps to the promise land.
I like your Magic Johnson question which is very interesting...
mick, there you go. Loved that JKC stayed quiet most of the time until he had a Lombardi trophy. Can't stand the idiot Jerry Jones. That guy has to always be in front of the camera and walking the sideline.
Ghost, what makes you think they will actually stick to the policy if the total starts pushing 20,000? :-) They never disclose the STH number anyway, so no one will ever know. That makes this pledge doubly disingenous.
I think the STH number will rise significantly too, especially if the Nats go deep into the postseason. There will probably be another bump during spring training. Kasten was right about one thing. You get the attendance you deserve. They panicked. Pathetic.
By the way, it's not like I'm going to cancel my STs in protest or anything. I'm one of 12,000 this year. Not giving up my priority for World Series tix for the next five years for all the tea in China.
Ghost... well said on Jerry Jones.... talk about an ego, lol
The email didn't bother me in the least. Sorry. And I would say that corporate buyers probably long since got their season tickets and postseason "strips." Corporations have departments that do that kind of thing and they don't wait around. I would bet the suites got grabbed up on Day 1.
In fact, as a "little" I appreciate the warning because even with the limitations on RCR, there are still benefits to being a STH which I didn't know about until I was one. I would say that the target of this email is individuals and families who have been on vacation and are just now becoming aware of the situation. Those are the buyers who have only a short time to evaluate their budgets and see if they can afford both season tickets and postseason tickets.
Do you think attendance this weekend will suffer from the O's/Yanks series?
sec 222 and Ghost, feel free to tell me I am wrong, but I think the Nats 14 out of 28 teams and drawing almost 2 million fans so far is very good
Whoever said that about the scalpers is probably close to the money for part of the reason for the 20K limitation. But they can't say that in an email. :)
remember gang, people are corporations, lol
forgot where I heard that, hee hee
Agreed on owners not being the public face Ghost. It actually strikes me as bizarre that the Nats marketers would think this kind of letter would be effective. Wow, the team owners want me to buy season tickets? That's a shocker. They have more money than God, why don't they buy them for me? Why don't they cut the prices rather than raise them? That will get my attention. Or maybe an email from Ryan Zimmerman...
mick, I have my insiders with the Caps too. There is the "public" Leonsis and the closed door Leonsis. He is a master at telling us how we should feel after each letdown. I don't want anyone telling me how I should feel. Making the post-season in hockey is a joke of a system when more than 1/2 the teams do it. Could you imagine if 8 teams in the AL & NL made the playoffs?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see it as panic. This is a very affluent city. When those condos around the park are finished, that is 5,000 STH's right there. When the restaurants, etc. are finished, you will have a LOT more walkups, especially in the summer--look at what happened around the Verizon Center. I appreciate the (business) strategy of only devoting 1/2 the capacity to STH, and I appreciate the honesty of saying so. If they change their minds over the winter, sobeit.
Ghost.... I hear you and a very good point. You are not the first to use the term public Leonsis and the closed door Leonsis and it is disappointing to hear this, but apparently so.
Wait--did they raise prices? Mine weren't raised.
No apology needed NatsLady. I'm just surprised you believe them.
I don't get the scalpers argument. Scalpers can buy single tickets too, can't they? And they got their STs long ago. Like the corporations, they were quick to get their playoff strips. Playoff tickets are already selling for ungodly amounts on StubHub.
222, the letter should have come from Feffer as the Marketing group pushed for it.
I always hate transparent stuff like that but the fact is, the Nats have to find a way to get STH up. Once the Nats clinch the Division, STHs will go up based on kneejerk urgency for those that must have the good playoff tix.
Keep in mind, most Corporations have shot their budgets this year already. I think the corporate buyers will increase significantly next year.
Will the team reach 20,000? They have earned it.
I prefer not to have fake letters from the players. The Lerners own the team and I assume they make the business/financial decisions. Entirely appropriate for them to send a letter.
mick said...
Ghost.... I hear you and a very good point. You are not the first to use the term public Leonsis and the closed door Leonsis and it is disappointing to hear this, but apparently so.
September 06, 2012 12:25 PM
I used to be one of the Kool-Aid drinkers until I learned what he was really all about. After they lost in the playoffs in 2010, he personally ripped some of the players. Classless and a big phony.
The Caps are on the decline. Ovi isn't getting better.
NatsLady, but don't you think marketing pieces should come from the Marketing Dept - Feffer instead of transparently signed by ownership?
Again, I didn't find it as a big deal.
Of course scalpers can buy single tickets. But they can't buy them yet. And when they do buy them, they presumably have to pay the associated fees and the higher per-ticket prices. The only time STH's are more profitable for the Lerners are the low-attendance games, and the Lerners are betting there won't be a lot of those next year.
Ghost, yes. The marketing department would be fine. Either is acceptable. No big deal to me.
The Lerner's email implies that they could sell out the whole place with STHs, but out of the goodness of their hearts they are going to save half the seats for the average fan to buy single game tickets.
You seem to be forgetting about all those average fans who have complained in the past about not being able to buy single game tickets to give as Christmas presents, or not being able to buy the three game holiday flex plans in the sections they want, or not being able to buy single game tickets at all until just a few weeks before the season. Why was that the case? Because if any of those purchases was allowed, it would ruin that seat as a possible season ticket location. The Lerners prioritized season ticket sales at the expense of the average fan. Now, they're signaling that they're not going to do that. They can block off the chosen 20,000 season ticket seat locations as early as Christmas - whether they're sold yet or not - and start selling single game tickets for the rest of the ballpark. They can hold the STH presale for Opening Day (which BTW is no longer included in 20-game plans) earlier, they can hold any other STH presales earlier, and they can start selling single game tickets earlier. That would clearly benefit the average fan. Now will they actually do this? Who knows. But I would not be the least bit surprised if they do.
222, I also don't see the STH thing about money any more. Its more about pride as they don't ever want to hear the controversy about "low attendance".
The "new media" is where the money will be made. Each team got a $17 million infusion courtesy of the new ESPN deal. They will have new deals with FOX and TBS. After the MASN deal, the Nats will be in great shape.
Actually, whether corporations have "shot their budgets for this year" depends on when their fiscal year starts/ends. Many budget July to June or September to August.
I'd love to see Harper win ROY, but is it realistic hitting .259 with .330 OBP (league avg.)? He's a lock for 20 HRs and 60 RBIs.
He appears to be a streak hitter (see June/July stats) but can he stay hot through all of Sep.?
Ok, just a moment to interrupt the whining about the ST situation (because we obviously have nothing on-field to whine about), but here's my whine for the day:
I went to Monday's game. You remember that one? The 2-1 pitcher's duel?
I WANT MY SIX HOMERUN GAME, TOO!!!!!
Ok, done whining.
I was in the car last night listening when Desi and Espi went btb, after watching up to that point the pitch-by-pitch on my phone while at a rehearsal (no comments from you NL or 222 ;) ) and when it happened I said out loud, laughing, "What the *&%*&%*& is going on???" I'm just stunned (probably not as much as the Cubs, I'm sure) and I just hope we aren't having a power surge to be followed by a power failure come October. I think the postseason is a given at this point, I just want us to run all the way through it, not be one and done.
Wow, Colorado pitcher just dropped the toss from the catcher and a run scored. Talk about gifts.
Well the Nats have hit my prediction of 84 wins so the season is over and they can stop playing.....not.
This is has been an exciting season watching the rising of the phoenix (ALR), the teenage rookie making the huge impact when he arrived a few months early.
How are our MI provide the critics wrong on this blog and have played spectacularly. During a losing streak watching the nay sayer rats telling us how much of a failure Rizzo and Johnson where and then having to scurry back into their dark corners as the brilliance of the Nats play shown through while staying in 1st place.
Watching the bench jell as injuries decimated the lineup, stepping into the brink showing good defence and hitting and continuing with it after returning to their pinch hitting roles (Lombo, the Shark, Moore and Tracy).
Seeing the depth of our farm system when Ramos went down and despite the catching injury jinx that followed.
The luck of our starting pitching staff staying intact all season long with Detwiler stepping up when Wang faltered and Lannan being a stopper on a call up start.
This bodes well for the rest of the season and the post season despite Strass shutdown. With a young roster and a good farm system the Nats will be in contention for many years to come. Mike Rizzo has established the Nats way to play and will be successful for many years to come.
As a long suffering Expos fan watching great players being developed and then sent away to other teams to become all stars and HOFs (Carter, Dawson, Pedro, Walker & the Big Unit to name a few) it is nice to follow the Nats since their move from Montreal.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
NatsLady, but don't you think marketing pieces should come from the Marketing Dept - Feffer instead of transparently signed by ownership?
You really think this decision was made by the marketing department without approval from the Lerners? No way. They signed off on it, and very well may have initiated the idea themselves. At any rate, this is an ownership initiative so why should the owners not be the ones to communicate it to the fanbase?
They signed off on it, and very well may have initiated the idea themselves. At any rate, this is an ownership initiative so why should the owners not be the ones to communicate it to the fanbase?
I simply find that very hard to believe. And it assumes that this "cap" is (1) in danger of being reached; and (2) actually a cap.
Yes, they signed off on it (at least I hope they did), but I just doubt that they came up with the idea to pretend that STH sales are going through the roof so get your tickets now before we impose a "cap." Equally likely is that they said to Feffer, "Hey Andrew, what the heck, why aren't we selling more STs? And Feffer and his team in frustation said, "Well, if you think it's so easy, why don't you send a letter pretending to do something good for the average fans and try to light a fire under the fence sitters."
Each is possible. I'll choose the more cynical option, as usual.
As for the promise of earlier single game sales, Xmas presents etc., I'll believe it when I see it. Until they reach that 20,000 goal, they'll do the same thing they've always done, and that they're doing today -- try anything they can to rebuild the STH base they squandered with two 100 loss seasons (not that I'm complaining about that of course.).
Ron -- I've been known to check Gameday during rehearsals too. Shhhhh. :)
No post up
Nats Lady, I don't think it's honesty at all, for the reason 222 gave -- they never give ST numbers so how will we know one way or the other? I suppose if someone reports "I asked for an ST package and they told me, no, we've reached the limit" we could say they're doing it, but do you really think they're going to turn customers away? Doesn't strike me as a way to encourage such people to buy a lot of single game tix, as many will be resentful and buy fewer than they might have otherwise.
OTOH, the letter itself doesn't bother me. Whatever. Just marketing, eh, Sofa? ;-)
Turning to actual baseball, Sofa, I thought your comment @12:15 re ROY was probably, sadly, dead on. OTOH those kind of media people can turn on a dime, and when Harp has been going crazy back in May and early June, and also lately, MLB and ESPN can't seem to tear themselves away from replays of his amazing exploits. I've seen ESPN do relatively lengthy (for them) Harp highlight pieces and then, almost literally as an afterthought, "oh, yeah, the Nats played X and won again."
And so they may put themselves in a position where they have to buy into and maintain their own, in this case well-earned (on Harp's part), hype. Of course, that could vanish in a flash, but if he stays reasonably hot, the whole ROY conversation could get interesting.
A quick note on STH prices - for our group the discount is 20% off the list price for regular games. But for the Yankees series, it was %50! NYC pricing, right here in DC!
So, if they sell all the games at face value, they make more $$, but if they only sell half the tickets they don't sell to STH plans, then they lose money. Seems like a risky gamble, and STH sales are money in the bank. Really makes me doubt they hope to sell more game-day tickets in order to simply profit.
Just my opinion, but I really get the impression that they want to be able to cultivate a larger fan base and not have sellouts to STH hoarders like the 'Skins had for years which keep new faces from coming to the ballpark. Plenty of available game-day tix will help make that happen.
Steady Eddie and Sofa, do you think if Bryce hits 2 HR in yet another game, or just passes Ott, that his chances for RoY will change?
I'm thinking in that event, that there will be a spotlight on that achievement that forces consideration for RoY.
Not sure which thread is considered active right now, but many thanks to NatsLady for pointing out that incredible (in the sense of inept) play in the Atlanta game. Can't post a link, but you can see it by going to MLB Gameday, clicking on the Atlanta game, then clicking on video highlights. Wow.
ehay2k, yeah. The milestone you picked out is probably the sexiest and most visible one -- dingers and Ks (for pitchers) generally are -- but more broadly, the more notable milestones for a teenager he reaches, the more TV visibility those achievements will get, and the harder it would be to deny him ROY.
It's one thing to have dueling numbers, it's another for one candidate to be setting some kind of notable all-time record(s).
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