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Photo by Mark Zuckerman / NATS INSIDER Will the Nationals celebrate this afternoon at Busch Stadium? |
Today, though, when the Nationals take the field at Busch Stadium, they won't need to look at the out-of-town scoreboard. Their task is simple: Win and they're NL East champs. Yes, they could also back their way in if the Braves lose to the Mets in a game that begins 40 minutes before this one. But the players in the visitors clubhouse prefer it not come to that. As one guy said this morning: "We want to dog-pile."
So it will be a motivated group this afternoon, led by St. Louis native Ross Detwiler and catcher Kurt Suzuki (starting his ninth consecutive game behind the plate). All the regulars are in the lineup, another sign Davey Johnson wants to end this thing right here and right now, then give everyone a rest during the final three games against the Phillies.
Enjoy this day, everyone. And, of course, be sure to check in here for live updates and analysis throughout...
WASHINGTON NATIONALS at ST. LOUIS CARDINALS
Where: Busch Stadium
Gametime: 2:15 p.m. EDT
TV: MASN2, Ch. 50, MLB.tv
Radio: WJFK (106.7 FM), WFED (1500 AM), XM 187
Weather: Mostly cloudy, 70 degrees, Wind 8 mph in from RF
NATIONALS (96-62)
RF Jayson Werth
CF Bryce Harper
3B Ryan Zimmerman
1B Adam LaRoche
LF Michael Morse
SS Ian Desmond
2B Danny Espinosa
C Kurt Suzuki
LHP Ross Detwiler
CARDINALS (85-73)
CF Jon Jay
RF Carlos Beltran
LF Matt Holliday
1B Allen Craig
C Yadier Molina
3B David Freese
2B Daniel Descalso
SS Pete Kozma
RHP Lance Lynn
UMPIRES
HP Chris Guccione
1B Jeff Nelson (cc)
2B Bill Welke
3B Cory Blaser
2:14 p.m. -- We're about to get underway here, but they're already underway in Atlanta, and David Ross just belted a three-run homer for the Braves to give them a 3-0 lead the bottom of the second.
2:16 p.m. -- And now we're underway with a strike from Lance Lynn to Jayson Werth. Buckle up, folks. Could be a wild ride.
2:27 p.m. -- Jayson Werth, doing what he always does: Getting on base. He roped a double to left-center to get this one started and put the Nats in great position to take an early lead. But then, the unthinkable: Bryce Harper made an out. In the first inning. For the first time in seven days. Still, it was a productive out, a flyball to center that advanced Werth to third. The bigger problem was that the big boys behind Bryce couldn't finish the job. Ryan Zimmerman grounded out to third, and Adam LaRoche (seeking his 100th RBI) struck out to end the top of the first with no score on the board. Meanwhile, the Mets did get a run back in Atlanta in the top of the third, so the Braves now lead 3-1.
2:36 p.m. -- Plenty of fastballs from Ross Detwiler in the bottom of the first, though a good number of them outside of the zone. He threw only 8 of 17 for strikes, walking Carlos Beltran with one out. The lefty battled back, though, and struck out Matt Holliday and got Allen Craig to ground out to end the first inning scoreless.
3:06 p.m. -- Wow, that was ugly. Detwiler and the Nats completely crumbled in the bottom of the second. It began with a pair of walks, then Danny Espinosa booted a tailor-made, 4-6-3 double play grounder. That prolonged the inning, but Detwiler did nothing to help his cause after that. Pete Kozma doubled home two runs into the right-field corner, with the Nats catching a break and throwing out Daniel Descalso trying to score all the way from first. Jon Jay then singled home another run. Carlos Beltran then crushed a 1-2 pitch into the bullpen for a two-run homer. Throw in another walk (his fourth of the game already) and Detwiler is in serious trouble. How bad? So bad that Chien-Ming Wang has begun warming in the bullpen. It's 5-0 Cardinals, while the Braves continue to lead 3-1 in the fifth.
3:12 p.m. -- Meanwhile, Lynn has retired nine straight since Werth's game-opening double. Five of them are strikeouts. The Nats couldn't have scripted the first 2 1/2 innings of this game any worse.
3:27 p.m. -- And that's it for Detwiler. He strikes out Molina to open the third, but then issues his fifth walk of the day and serves up his fourth hit. Just like that, the St. Louis native is done after 2 1/3 innings. In comes Chien-Ming Wang, who naturally throws his first pitch to the backstop, then throws his second one there, too. In comes another run. Then in came another run on a sac fly. Incredibly, the Nationals trail 7-0 after three innings. They may be pleading for the mercy rule to be instituted before this one ends.
3:47 p.m. -- Hold the phone, folks. This one ain't over yet. Harper led off the top of the fourth with his 22nd homer, leaving him just two shy of Tony Conigliaro for the all-time record by a teenager. Hits by LaRoche and Desmond kept the inning going. Espinosa then launched a two-run bomb to right, and all of sudden it was 7-4. In a curious move, Wang got to hit for himself with two outs and a man on first. Predictably, he struck out. As much as Davey has been insisting all hands were on deck until the Nats clinch, you have to wonder why that wasn't the case right there. Why not send up a pinch-hitter? You've got plenty of arms out in the bullpen to get through this game.
4:03 p.m. -- And sure enough, Wang opens the bottom of the fourth by walking Jay and then serving up a two-run bomb to Beltran. Just like that, it's 9-4. Not Davey Johnson's finest managerial hour here today.
4:10 p.m. -- Another walk for Harper. On this road trip, he's now 11-for-23 with three doubles, a triple, three homers, seven RBI, a .520 OBP, a 1.087 slugging percentage and a 1.607 OPS. It's quite possible he's the only guy on the Nats roster right now not caught up in the moment.
4:29 p.m. -- It's over in Atlanta. The Braves win 6-2. So unless the Nats can rally from five runs down, they won't be clinching today and they'll head home hoping to do it against the Phillies tomorrow night.
4:40 p.m. -- Christian Garcia mows down the Cards in order in the bottom of the sixth. Guess he wasn't available to pitch the bottom of the fourth, when the Nats trailed by only three runs. It's still 9-4 as we move to the seventh.
4:56 p.m. -- Onto the eighth, still 9-4. The Reds, meanwhile, came back to win in Pittsburgh. So if the Nats lose today, those two teams will again be tied for the NL's best record. Remember, the Nats would win a tiebreaker against them, based on head-to-head record, so they would still be the NL's No. 1 seed in that scenario.
5:05 p.m. -- Still 9-4, the Nats now down to their last three outs.
5:16 p.m. -- 10-4 now as we go to the ninth.
5:23 p.m. -- It's over. The Nats lose 10-4. They lead the Braves by three games with three to play. The magic number remains 1. They'll head home and try to clinch tomorrow night against the Phillies.
236 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 236 Newer› Newest»Let's go get 'em, fellas.
GYFNG!
Go Det, show your hometown folks what you got!
Go bats, phantom AND real time!
Come back home as NL East Champs!
I hope the Braves win today, I want my guts to win it on the feild!
... here's hoping Mike Morse gets to use his 'special' bat today.
Go Nats' Bats!!
Lost in the whole imaginary grand slam -- Mike Morse was trying to hit a sac fly. He seemed pretty happy that he hit it far enough for Bryce to score. He hit a grand slam. His power seems to be coming back - just in time. Sweet.
Go, Det! You can do this. Go, NATS BATS (the real ones, not the invisible ones)!! Dog pile, bay-bee!!
Tcostant -- I get where you're coming from, but at this point I don't really care whether or not the Braves win.
I just want the Nats to win today so they can celebrate on the field.
BTW, Daniel Murphy just hit a one-out double to right, so Medlen is at least not unhittable today.
Seems like Medlen is not enjoying a big strike zone.
Let's go Natitude pride! We take care of the Cards today and don't worry about the Braves.
remains -- Braves announcers saying HP ump Demuth "not known as a pitcher's ump".
I read it as, after giving up that double, Medlen would have to earn a larger strike zone.
Note that Suzuki is in the lineup once again. (No day game off after a night game.) Davey is in playoff mode until we clinch. Zuk is one of many unsung heroes on this team. We're 27-12 in games in which he has played since joining the team on August 4. Hope Davey gives him a few days off after we put this thing away today.
Braves owe the Mets scoreless first to Chipper's glove play.
Also, Os get dinger from McLouth, then two singles and a HBP. Not that I especially want them to win, but I definitely want the Evil Empire to lose.
Tcostant -- I get where you're coming from, but at this point I don't really care whether or not the Braves win.
I just want the Nats to win today so they can celebrate on the field.
Steady -- that's exactly where Tcostant is coming from.
If the Braves lose before the Nats win, it takes a bit of the excitement out of the dog pile, because the Nats will have already clinched by the time the Nats are in the 7th inning or so. I might not be explaining it well, but do you know what I mean?
But if the Braves _win_, and then the Nats win, the Nats will have clinched it on the Cards' last out, and then there's reason to celebrate right then -- as opposed to celebrating while the game's still going on.
Just took a look at the end the previous thread. Sorry that I did. peric was obviously wrong about the inference concerning Miguel Cabrera, and his slur on Michele was not only unnecessary, but despicable. (And no, peric, people didn't jump to her defense because she's a woman. They did so because she's a decent person and you're an obnoxious jerk.) Yet he managed to dominate the thread from the moment he joined the discussion and made his leap of logic about Cabrera. The only way to stop that is to ignore him when he says crazy things. I'm as guilty as anyone of engaging him (including right here), but this last thread ought to be a lesson to us all.
I'm sure I will get a rapier aimed at me for this comment (might even be called a bandwagoner or an O's fan, oh no!), but I plan to ignore it, and I hope everyone else will too. I have a lot better things to do today -- like watching the team I've followed since day one win an NL East title. Wow!
To finish the thought: so what I'm hoping is that the Mets beat the Braves, but score so many runs, that there are so many pitching changes that it takes a long time -- and that the Nats complete a nice little, say, 3-1 quick victory over the Cards.
I.e., the Nats finish a victory _before_ the Braves finish losing to the Mets.
If we're dreaming, might as well go for it all, eh?
GYFNG!!! Off to do some outdoors work so I can get a little distracted. This playoff stuff may kill me, but I'm loving meaningful baseball in the fall!
DCWonk -- While what you said makes a lot of sense, I think it's probably of a lot more moment to us as fans than to the players.
The point is that when (assuming that) they win today, regardless of whether or not they've technically clinched earlier, they will all feel with complete justice that they've earned it on the field by their play today (and all the games before, of course). I doubt that for the players, what the Mets may do would take any edge away from what they would feel after a win today -- "we did this by our accomplishment today!"
But I do like your scenario best, also because it would mean the Braves wear down their bullpen more. (Of course, if we clinch, they'll give all their regulars a rest this week just like we will.)
Ain't it great to be able to be speculating on this stuff, instead of mourning the reverse countdown of games played towards 162?
222 -- definitely, ignore button big time. Don't feed the bottomless attention deficit.
Nats need to win. Mets are not very good and Pirates are also bad.
And after all that about how we MAY clinch today, Ross just hit a three run dinger out, which should be enough for Medlen....
Be brilliant, Det! GYFNG!
Those Braves are totally scary to me. But we win today, even if they do.
Glad the game is starting. I'm driving home and I couldn't listen to Braves on xM. They're all Chippef all the time.
Nats' magic number vis a vis the Reds for getting the "z" is 3. Go Buccos!
Yes, on their TV feed they have been interviewing Chipper's mom for about 20 minutes. Meanwhile, they gave the Mets a run with about three errors on one play. Yeesh, we couldn't get Werth in? OK, Ross, be strong.
1 And 2 bayters do exactly as requested. Runner on 3rd with one out 3 and 4 batters forgot their job.
Zimmerman hit the ball hard, you can't steer it off the bat...God play by the 3B...
"Good" play by the 3B
The pitch Zim missed before that would not have been pulled.
despite walk good inning Det
Desi looks totally out of sorts in this series. Good thing it's not at all affecting his glove work.
Danny should take some bunting lessons from the Shark and JZimm.
Since Harper' at bat the hitters took off (zim' was hard but couldnt have been locatef worse)
Two walks in 5 at bats
Ugh, now Det being squeezed like JZimm was last night. Ball 2 was entirely within the strike zone.
I HATE WALKS. (I mean, unless we're getting 'em).
Yes, Det not getting the outside corner at all.
This why you dont walk people.
Playoff jitters getting to Ross...and now Danny. A round of deep breaths for everyone.
Nerves. Nerves. Guys, it's a baseball game. You played baseball all your life. Just play the game.
Ok, we'll probably give up a run or two this inning, but we're going to come back and win this game. Don't get too down on Det. He got the DP ball that was needed. Not his fault that he's in this situation.
This Kozma guy has been killing us! Who is he? Can;t get him out
Is Kosmo slow or something? Why didn't they squeeze?
Hope Zach Duke is ready, cause this ain't going well. 54 pitches and only the 2nd inning.
Ross not throwing breaking balls with 2 strikes?
Dannynis a KKKK machine. If he's going to make errors than there is no point of having him out there. Where is Lombo?
Guess you don't have to squeeze if the next guy gets a single. C'mon Ross, don't panic.
NatsJack, no excuses for Danny on that one, though Ross certainly isn't looking too sharp.
Uh-oh. Who does Davey go to?
Well, there goes the curveball w/2 strikes...Lol So much for that idea..
Game over. When does GIO pitch again? Is anybody really confident for the post season the way ejax and now det are pitching? Awful.
Secret, so true. 3 unearned now. 5-0
Walks and errors. kill you all the time
I was trying REALLY had to be a Detwiler fan.
The kid has a chance to battle out of it and Danny boots a play a 5th grader should make. Very disappointing.
Annoying WB Mason kid, just before he gets molested by the weird mustache guy: "Now you can clinch at home!"
Every team in MLB would start Danny over Lombo at 2B...Not even close
Daveys strategy to clinch in DC. ;) ?
Apparently they have scored 4 of the 5 runs as unearned. ERA a meaningless stat. Detwiler gave up those runs with walks, etc. Sorry about Danny, but this is on Det.
Well then if swift says Danny and his 3 unearned runs get a pass then I guess it must be true. SWIFT is ALWAYS Right.
Sometimes I get confused as to how they score earned/unearned runs. Carp just said that four of those were unearned.
SWM....I thought we agreed to an "Ignore Pact"...And yet you keep using my name in your posts...Which is it?
Our arguments bore everyone else...You're a knee jerk pessimist, and I'm a cheerleader...
Move ON!!!
Eagle, 100% with you on Danny vs. Lombo. I like Lombo, good kid, works hard. But he isn't 1/10 the athlete Danny is.
Guess Davey is going to make Det throw 100 pitches. 5-0 is not insurmountable, but our 3-4-5 hitters have to wake up.
I guess Davey is hoping to allow Det to end on a positive inning...or maybe it just takes CMW an hour to get loose..Lol
That strike three to Suzuki is exactly where ball two to Molina was.
I guess the combination of bad umping and Espi's E was more than Det could handle, as in past years.
Contrast with JZimm last night, tho he DID have clutch D behind him.
Let's hope Det can now settle down as Gio did, and we can chip away and not have everyone try to tie it up with one swing.
Cmon, Nats!
Danny is better. He needs a day off. And I need some time off from all the self righteous chest beating from folks who think they are omnipotent.
Det is to blame for the bad inning. He walked the first two guys and had several chances to get out of it and couldn't do it. But he is not to blame for the botched DP. Come on, no excuses for that.
CMW coming in with two on. Better think like a reliever Chien-Ming.
I don't understand why Davey let Det go out there for the 3rd inning. CMW should have come out with clean bases.
I agree with NatsLady and Swift Eagle. Lombo has been a great backup/bench player, but he is no where close to Espy as your starting second baseman.
Ross and Jackson are both suffering from concentration deficiency issues.
CMW? O-key-dokey...
No one is "blaming" Detwiler for the botched doubleplay. But you are not going to win games walking 5 guys in less than 3 innings, plus the HR.
Seriously Davey?
This is getting really ugly.
This is painful.
NatsJack -- no One could question Det's role in his own meltdown. Just identifying what caused him to lose his focus.
Disturbing that this was how he reacted in a big game pressure situation, contrasted with JZimm last night
NL, you weren't blaming Det for the botched DP, but NJ most definitely was.
Now that the score is 7-0 in the 3rd, do you think Davey is ready to pull all his starters and wait until the Nats return to DC to hopefully win another game?
Time to see if the Natsbats can get us out of a 7 run hole.
Wang is like Davey's personal white flag.
Aw, NJ, lay off CMW. He's not a reliever. This is on Davey for keeping Det in there. All right, time to start chipping away at this.
I am not understanding Davey's thinking. I understand about EJax, but why did he leave JZ in for so long? JZ was looking at the dugout every other pitch. Why did he let Det go in for the 3rd inning and just make the hole deeper?
I love that KID. Never say die! OK, everyone else FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE!!!!!
Bammitude!
Yea Jack, it's like Ross can no longer throw a breaking ball! I remember when he was drafted and the "experts" raved about his curve...Haven't seen it has as pro...
Bryce continues to be Mr. September....Uh, ROY voters, Todd Frazier? I don;t think so...
You have to put Lannen on post season roster if he's not already.
Also, responding to an earlier comment. Maybe RZ can't guide where the ball goes, but Ichiro does it all the time.
Not liking this game, but I have tickets for tomorrow night. It would be great if my kid could see them clinch in person.
Ok, that's one. Let's go Nats! Bryce is something else.
Two homers behind Conigliaro.
Three runs behind Buddy Lewis.
NatsLady said...
Also, responding to an earlier comment. Maybe RZ can't guide where the ball goes, but Ichiro does it all the time.
September 30, 2012 3:33 PM
__________________________________
Lol! yes he does!
Whatever NJ. You said it once, and it's a good point. But when your point followed several critical comments about Det's pitching, and when you reiterated the point after several people objected to the idea that the botched DP was somehow Det's fault, that sure sounds like you were blaming him. Thanks for clarifying that that wasn't your intent.
If we had turned the DP, the inning might have turned out much differently. But that's not to say that Det is absolved from blame for the big hole we find ourselves in. He pitched a lousy game and this is on him.
Even the unbeatable Braves may have some trouble with this StL team....The NL WC game is going to be a barn-burner
And with 4 days to go, not ONE AL team has clinched a playoff berth! Amazing
And Zim take a K on a called strike that was a ball for Detwiler.
NatsNut--the ump. He's fine.
FP's comment about leaving Lynn in to get the win is yet another reason why wins and losses are a stupid stat.
Zim started to get his timing back over that AB but he needed to defend the strike zone with two strikes better than that. If he swings and misses, regrettable but at least he was trying to dohis job.
Any team will have a tough time against the Cards if they always get a different strike zone than their opponent does.
Yeah, Morse may not have liked it, but this ump has been 100% correct so far per Pitch F/X anyway...
this teams been playing like absolute shit lately
I have more faith in Nats coming back than the Mets. :) There ya go, Desi. Back to a 5-run game. LOL.
Just like Lombo would have done it!
oooooops, Espy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Um, who wanted to take him out again?
And suddenly we have some life... Let's go Nats!!
Ya gotta love this team. Way to go Danny!
Davey, I love CMW, but if it's a game now, get someone else warming, PLEASE.
Too bad Davey didn't leave Wang in the bullpen where he belongs. It would be a new ball game.
Ok, that's two, and there's two more, thanks to Danny Espinosa!
And just as I was thinking, Danny don't try to hit it out, just take what's offered and get a single -- and he takes what's offered.
GYFNG!!!!
GYFNG!!!!!!
Well, no way to avoid that one! RIght in the butt. Davey, don't give up on this game.
With all the arms in the bullpen, I can't believe Davey sent Wang up to hit. Ugh.
I don't love CMW. Twice in a row he's come in in relief and thrown a WP on the first pitch. Terrible.
well CMW didn't have another double in him but at least we have a ball game.
Danny jacks one. Who's the dummy who,wanted Lombo?
Ok CMW, aka the Delicate Flower..it's a fresh inning, you're warmed up...Please give our bats a fighting chance!
If Wang was throwing strikes I could see leaving him in but now it's 3-0 to Jon Jay
McCatty just told CMW, doubleplay or you're outta here.
[Insert Primal Scream Here]
I guess he took outta here.
I don't understand that at all. I'm sorry, but this is on DAVEY JOHNSON. What is wrong with you?
So CMW has now given up all four runs the Nars just scored.
Last time we'll have see cmw in a nats uniform. Bye-bye....
Like I said, should have pinch hit for him. Horrible job as a long reliever. Where's Stammen, where's Duke, where's Gorzo? Jeez.
Wang is Rizzos biggest mistake, worse than HRod. He will be out of baseball in a week. No clue why we even try to use him. Hopefully this will be the last year of injured, past their prime retreads for this team. Put them in the minors and make them prove they can still play.
Wang is Rizzos biggest mistake, worse than HRod. He will be out of baseball in a week. No clue why we even try to use him. Hopefully this will be the last year of injured, past their prime retreads for this team. Put them in the minors and make them prove they can still play.
I can't believe this is only the bottom of the 4th. It seems like FOREVER.
Somebody explain to me why Wang is allowed to play at all.
Davey, why are you giving up on this game after we just scored four?????
Rizzo may have made a mistake but why did Davey use him? I maybe wouldn't have wasted a pinch hitter, but you don't have to bring him back in. Davey is playing to win one in DC, we understand that but there are no guarantees.
Wang might be the worst pitcher that I have seen in all of major league baseball this year.
Very frustrating that Friday and today were not team losses. The pitchers never gave the rest of the guys any chance at all. Does CMG have pictures of Davey?
Is Levale Speigner available in the pen?
I trust the Pirates more than the Mets, seriously. They are not bad. They are beating CIN and Cueto and they have McCutchen and they will be playing at home. All is not lost. LOL.
Plus this game isn't over.
OK guys, now pick up where you left off in the top of the fourth.
My sincere desire is to never see Wang in a Nationals uniform in any way, matter, shape or form. He is not good, statistically. In fact, he is horrible with a whip over 2 and a 6.60 ERA, which is only going higher.
I can only think that Davey wants to lose this game and clinch at home.
Somebody explain to me why Wang is allowed to play at all.
crickets
Nobody forced davey to put in CMW.
I'm in the Davey Johnson fan club. Not a member of The Legion of Doom. But I am lost as to why Davey 1) put Wang in this game or any game from here on out, 2) didn't hit for him last inning and 3) kept him in after walking a man to start the inning. This team can come back, but those extra two runs the Cards just tack on were not what that dugout needed...
Zuckerman, why don't you tell us why Wang is allowed to go out there and sabotage our team, over and over. What does someone see in this guy?
Cards pitcher was struggling. Wang should have been pinched hit for. Davey needs to take heat for this.
Harp's plate discipline has gotten incredible in the past six weeks.
And Zim's negative contribution at the plate today goes on.
How does a team even get 9 runs on only 6 hits? I got home to watch the game in the 3rd inning and the first thing I heard was wild pitch by Wang, which is the same thing he did the last time he relieved.
He hit that solid and the bat broke. That's not Zim's fault.
Davey lost this game when he put in Wang, then let him bat with about 10 PH's on the bench.
What were you thinking Davey?????
Wang's ERA actually understates just how terrible he is, because he always manages to let every single inherited runner score.
I find it amazing that the coolest cucumber on the team is 19 years old.
Davey doesn't care about this game. He is going for one in DC. You watch, he'll take the regulars out next inning and send them on an airplane home.
Nats have given up 25 runs in 3 games and this one is only half over....
I really thiInkn Davey is throwing away this game on purpose just so be can clinch at home in front of th Phillies. No other explanation for him leaving Wang in to pitch.
Harper saves Wang from one of the fattest pitches ever thrown to a guy with no power....
Bryce still playing. :) :)
NJ, remember when you and I both thought there was hope for CMW? I see him in Japan next year.
Is GIO pitching tomorrow?
If the Braves tie the Nats, that guarantees Washington 2 home games in a row if the Braves beat up in the play-off and possibly 4 home games in a row.
NL, I don't know if you're right though the signs suggest you are. Especially leaving CMW in AGAIN to get knocked around.
But if that's true, he's out of sync with his team which showed in the fourth they still want to win this.
Wang can't even get the ball to first....
So why is he yanking Wang now? Makes no sense.
Steady, yep. And they still could. Methany could leave Lynn in (not wise) or put in some middle reliever we can get to.
If we can't beat phillies once at home then oh week we don't deserve it. Go pirates.
Do they do that W.B. Mason ad about the GSA Schedule in other cities?
this loss is on Ross and Davey. I do admire they way the rest of the guys are trying though.
Because this year has been so good, none of the media ask Rizzo or Johnson tough questions, like why do you think that a guy with an ERA of over 5.5 in the minors and 6.6 in the majors this year, should be pitching during a pennant race when there are plenty of arms on the bench?
Were they seriously considering Wang for the post-season?
Halos just beat Texas in the first game of the doubleheader. The AL is so complicated....!
Kimbrall in. Good, let them wear him out. Please.
At the tender age of 21, Mike Trout became the youngest member of the 30 HR/30 SB club when he hit his 30th home run Sunday off the Rangers’ Yu Darvish.
Can't imagine what Bryce will do next year, it's scary.
I loved the comment about it not being Wang's fault because he's not a reliever. If he's not a reliever and not a starter, what the hell is he?
This one is on Wang. If you can't come in without throwing 2 wild pitches in a row, then you have no business being out there on the field.
The game should be five to four now. Why wasn't Garcia or Zak used?
WODL
Take a look at Mark's twitter feed. He has some good and biting comments on CMW. All the beat reporters are on it.
Not scoring in the 6th hurt. We needed to chip away there.
Hoo Boy: Looks like National Det couldnt handle the pressure of a Big Game. He looked tentative from Pitch One.
Wang: Wang is a joke. And not a funny one.
Det needs to grow a couple - Wang needs to be given a ticket back home - whereever he hails from.
Yet, we just may win this one!
WODL, if you read Mark's updates, it's pretty clear he's not particularly impressed by Davey's decisionmaking in this game. So giving him a hard time isn't really justified. I'm pretty sure someone will ask Davey a question after the game about the decision. He or she won't ask it in a confrontational or accusatory way like we might because that's not the best way to get an informative answer.
Owe you a drink Michele.
Is there a link for that? I had to go through the disappointment of telling my sons that Wang was pitching last Sunday, and now this fiasco where he singlehandedly takes a 5 run game to a 9 run one, with once again a Whip of over two, a gopher ball and two wildpitches.
Trying to understand Davey here. He said in the pre-game, we already are going to play 2 postseason games (at home). Winning a game just gives you 3 games (2 away from home).
Give ATL some home for the Division. Let them wear out their pitchers and regulars in Pittsburgh. Not the worst strategy I ever saw. Fredi would bite.
Jeez, Garcia is good.
Anytime 222
Even Boz was on it.and he drinks more Koolaid than anyone.
I wasn't criticizing Mark. I hope the reporters hammer Rizzo and Johnson after this game, though, because this has got to stop. Wang never looks good and those two seem to be seeing something else from the rest of us. This is not the first time that Wang has thrown a wild pitch on his first throw.
Watching Garcia easily blow through the Cards there makes me even more upset with Wang and Davey. WTF is Davey thinking -- still tinkering, Davey? Uh Davey, it's a pennant clinching game. What do you think Davey, that Wang is suddenly going to revert to form? And what form is that? ERA at 4.00+ at best. Again: Davey a hero in the clubhouse -- a bufoon on the field.
WODL
Marks feed should be on upper right corner. Try at The NI home page if its not on game thread
WODL, for this game at least it's more on Davey than on CMW. After using him in the Dodgers game, Davey knew what he was in this season. CMW came in and did the same thing he did in the Dodgers game, only twice.
It really is mystifying. Davey clearly wasn't going to repeat staying too long with Det when he looked like EJax did on Friday night. He started Det in the first place because he was serious about clinching this weekend. Then he brings in someone who gave us no serious chance of winning.
I imagine Davey will give the explanation that he didn't bring in Gorzy or Duke both because of the matchups and because he wanted to keep them fresh for potential starts after we clinch in order to give the real starters a little rest.
Which still wouldn't explain why he brings in a reliver who would be a garbage time reliever in a post-clinch game instead of his real relievers.
If he really wanted to win this game.
Have to agree with Mark's tweet. Could have used Garcia in the 4th.
WODL, it's not the beat writers' job to "hammer" Davey. Someone will ask the question I'm pretty sure. That's all we can ask. They aren't fans, and they aren't there to argue with him.
NL, we're trying to understand Davey and we can't. Do you seriously think he wanted to lose today? I don't buy that for a second.
Steady -- Davey might have had good reason for bringing in Wang. But not for letting him bat or leaving him in as long as he did.
And now he's used all the real relievers -- Stammen, Garcia, Duke -- he should have brought in (and presumably was trying not to use) in the first place.
I know we're all piling on here, but this is incredibly frustrating when Davey is getting in the way of his own team like this on such a huge game.
Not the end of the world, we can and should win tomorrow if we can't come back today. But for a young team which is really doing an admirable job of hanging in there for the first pressure September for most, this game was really not constructive when it was inflicted on the team which is really trying like this.
Keeping Duke or Gorzo fresh for a start after we clinch? Nah. He can always get Perry or Maya off their couches for that.
Davey is playing the percentages. Fans aren't. Neither is Boz or Mark. I thought about it, and I got no problem with it. Maybe Davey made a mistake with CMW (bringing him in with runners on base). But at that time it was 5-0. Try to remember that.
At the time Davey brought Wang in, the Cards had a 94.7% chance of winning the game. (fangrahs.com)
Davey didn't lose this game. Nor did CMW. Detwiler (and if you want, Espy) lost this game. (Assuming we lose it).
fangraphs play log
http://www.fangraphs.com/liveplays.aspx?date=2012-09-30&team=Cardinals&dh=0&season=2012
Mark is right to show his increduilty of Davey Boy Johnson -- that's the manager with a supreme amount of hubris.
Mark mentioned batting Wang -- which was unbelievably weird -- this isn't May, Davey. Its the clincher.
He didnt mention batting Det for himself -- when it was apparent to all that Det was done.
But Davey is so smart, so brilliant. NOT
I don't agree with what Davey did, but I understand his reasoning.
With a wiser manager in charge - the Nats would have had 100 wins by now.
Right Buck?
Wang did, in fact, lose this game.
NL, you're a superb Davey apologist. :-) I think you're nuts, but I admire the effort.
No one is excusing Det or saying we would have won if he didn't bring in Wang. But 5-4 is a lot more winnable than 9-4. And 7-4 is more winnable than 9-4. And 7-5 (if a Goon Squader had successfully pinch hit for Wang) is a lot more winnable than 9-4. What percentages are you thinking about? I don't see it.
The boys from MLB Network are correct: the nats won't go far into the postseason because of the weaknesses in their bullpen.
222 -- I'm sure Davey had his reasons. But if you wouldn't trust him to start a big big game like this, why would you bring him in -- knowing what he's been in relief this month -- when that game you don't trust him to start is still hanging in the balance?
If you're not trying to build him up in a Clip-type thing (and no, CMW CANNOT be in consideration for the postseason roster), why is he in a big game like this at all before it's decided?
I trust Davey a lot but can't see any excuse for either bringing him in in the first place, and especially leaving him in when you've seen he was what you feared he was.
We lose this game and we are .500 on the road trip. That's what we needed to be. The Barfs had a cupcake schedule, we knew that. We were lucky to get one from the Mets. This game is not the issue. The issue is figuring out how to get Detwiler back on track. That is what I am worried about.
Hopefully, Johnson now realizes that Wang is incapable of starting a relief appearance with anything other than a wild pitch.
"Him" being CMW, of course.
Please explain Davey's reasoning, Natslady? How would you know his thinking? just curious.
curious to know where you played your ball as well.
CMW was never in any consideration for the postseason roster. Period.
And 222, you put your finger right on it. Can you trust Detwiler to start a big game?
I'm worried about Det too. I hope we never see Wang on our mound again (I'm sure he's a nice guy but...) and I wish DJ had put Garcia in earlier.
That said, we will be home when they clinch. It's been painful to get there but they WILL and we will be there for and with them. I just hope the Pirates have some verve left in 'em, just n case.
I am more concerned with Rizzo and Johnson promising us that Wang will never take the field for the Nats again. We simply cannot waste anymore time, money and resources on a has-been, who in fact never really was, if you look at this Yankee stats carefully.
Cut him now.
The last 6 games the bullpen less a problem then the starters
Prediction: Rizzo is not bringing back Johnson -- too weird -- too odd -- too many brain farts.
The team won in spite of Davey -- afterall, no small ball, no stealing, average pitching staff management (and that mcCatty's job).
Davey is Earl Weaver: sit back and wait for the three run homer: and Earl had phenomenal pitching too. interesting.
Zim this weekend trying to pull outside pitches. A bad habit for sure
We have all these promising young guys on the roster--why is Wang sucking up innings if he is not going to be on the roster? Are they evaluating him for next year? Virtually, every pitcher on the squad has had good games and shown promise except for Lidge, who is gone, and Wang, who should be released immediately.
I'm worried about Det too. That's not the issue with how this game was managed. If you were managing the team, would you have (1) relieved him with Wang; (2) left him in after two straight wild pitches; 3) let him bat for himself in the top of the 4th with a man on base; (4) left him in after walking Jay to face Beltran. Those were five separate decisions. The only one I can even see a rationale for is the first.
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