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US Presswire photo Ian Desmond could become only the seventh shortstop ever in the 20-20-.300 club. |
So Ian Desmond should feel quite proud of himself this morning as the newest member of the 20-20 club, one that features only seven current members: Desmond, Ryan Braun, Mike Trout, B.J. Upton, Alex Rios, Jimmy Rollins and Carlos Gonzalez.
Desmond is only the second Nationals player ever to pull off the 20-20 combo, the bar having previously been set ridiculously high by Alfonso Soriano, who in 2006 hit 46 homers and stole 41 bases.
This from a guy who entered the season with perhaps as much pressure on him as anybody on the Nationals roster, a guy who had never hit more than 10 homers or posted a batting average greater than .269 in a full big-league season.
"I think he's just had a phenomenal year," manager Davey Johnson said after yesterday's game. "He's just establishing a benchmark for himself and what he's capable of doing."
As impressive as Desmond's 20-20 combo is, let's take this a step further and point out the incredibly rare feat he might just pull off: finishing with a .300 batting average while homering 20 times and stealing 20 bases.
Desmond's average stood at .301 entering yesterday's game, but an 0-for-3 performance against the Brewers dropped that mark to .299. With nine games left in the regular season, he still has a golden opportunity to raise that number back over .300.
And if he does, Desmond will join what might be one of the most exclusive clubs in baseball history: shortstops who have hit .300 with 20 homers and 20 steals.
How many have ever done it? Only six, and their names read like a list of the greatest shortstops of the modern era: Hanley Ramirez (four times), Alex Rodriguez (twice), Derek Jeter, Nomar Garciaparra, Barry Larkin and Alan Trammell.
With a strong finish, Ian Desmond could stand alongside those greats.
Not that he would make a big deal out of it. Desmond is loathe to discuss his personal achievements, especially when it comes to stats. He downplayed the significance of his first career All-Star selection earlier this summer, insisting he'd much rather play in the World Series.
But the 27-year-old does give credit to those who made his breakthrough season possible, starting with his manager.
"Davey has been real nice to have around for me personally," Desmond said. "He's believed in me. I've kind of put the comparison on it: When Davey came in in spring training and was like: 'Hey, you're going to play every single day and I don't care what you do. You're out there. You're my shortstop no matter what.' That was, to me, like a multi-year contract. That was all I needed, someone's word, to say: 'Hey, you're the guy.' The audition kind of went away and now it became just go out and play your game. You can do whatever you want, and he believes in you."
The way Desmond has played this season, there may never be another manager, coach or scout in baseball that doubts his ability.
CSNwashington.com's Chase Hughes contributed to this report.
119 comments:
I think Desi deserves all the praises thrown his way. Super year! A lot of folks felt that this was a make or break season for him coming into the year. Nobody could have asked for more from him.
Like I said last night - name me one shortstop you would start a team with besides Desmond. I realize Tulo when healthy is just great but would you risk starting your team with someone as injury prone as he is?
To have such a young talented middle infield is just another reason to be excited about this team.
One last point. In both routs of the Brewers, Davey managed to get lots of people playing time but he did not take out the center core. Harper in CF, Desmond & Espinosa up the middle & Suzuki at Catcher all stayed in yesterday. He did play Lombo for one inning in the first game but that strength up the middle thing is probably a key part of Davey's thought process.
I am now trying to figure out if I should just get two orders of wings at once or space those out. College Park is not that far but I think I will just go once. Good news is they have a nice StarrHill dark beer on draft as well. Last time I was in there were literally five others there on the wings deal sitting at the bar and the two college kids got them to go paying absolutely nothing! Wonder if they keep that deal up next year?
Go Nats!! Score First!! Win the Division!!
Considering how everyone (hand raised) questioned whether he could put together a full year this is just great. Excellent year for Desi and proving to everyone that he belongs. Lets hope this can happen for his DP partner, Espi next year.
The thing I like most about Desi,is that he seems to be a really good person. Sure, he has proven the fact that he is an elete ballplayer with the best yet to come, but his ego has not taken over as is the case with most in his class. It is guys like Ian Desmond that make me pay attention to MLB. What a great story about a great guy.
I was one of the doubters going into this year. I am glad I was wrong, and that I am not the Nats' GM. I can think of several moves I would have made that would have backfired.
+1/2St.
Harper in CF, Desmond & Espinosa up the middle & Suzuki at Catcher all stayed in yesterday.
Eury Perez pinch hit for Harper in the seventh (I think) inning yesterday and played the rest of the game in CF.
Let's face it - even those of us who didn't outright trash Desi didn't see this season coming. He is one of those guys that we have so very many of. He is a physically gifted athlete, a talented baseball player and has that intangible thing that Rizzo is so good a spotting -- they call it " makeup" , character - whatever they call it - many of the Nats have "it". Seeing Desi this year makes me drool over what Danny could be next year.
Glad to see Desi put it all together this year. Actually, I think he has 30-30 potential next year, if he stays healthy. Can't wait for the playoffs to start! Already bought playoff tickets for myself, the wife and father-in-law for the first home game, sec. 404. Lets do this, Nats Nation. GYFNG!!!
Desi has made alot of people on this board eat crow
Michele asked how umpires are selected for the playoffs in the last thread.
Here's the MLB rule on that.
Special Event selection
ASSIGNMENT
All major league umpires are eligible to work any Special Event. The Office of the Commissioner shall have absolute and exclusive discretion in the assignment of umpires to work Special Events. There shall be no restriction on the number of Special Events to which an umpire may be assigned to work in any given year, provided however that an umpire shall not work back-to-back Special Event series (excluding the All-Star Game) and, an umpire shall not work consecutive World Series.
NOTIFICATION
Umpires assigned to work the Mid-Summer Classic shall be notified of their assignment not less than 30 days prior to the game. Umpires assigned to work the Division Series shall be notified of their assignment on the next to last Saturday of the regular season. Umpires assigned to work the League Championship Series shall be notified of their assignment on the last Saturday of the regular season. Umpires assigned to work the World Series shall be notified of their assignment on the day after the end of the last Division Series.
ROTATION
Six (6) umpires shall be assigned to work each Special Event. Rotation of umpiring positions on the field will be followed in any Special Event that is a series. The Office of the Commissioner shall determine the initial position of each umpire in such series.
I agree with the comment yesterday that you can hand Ian Desmond the Silver Slugger now and throw in some well earned MVP votes.
I still have Adam LaRoche as my Team MVP.
SCNatsFan said...
Desi has made alot of people on this board eat crow
September 25, 2012 8:30 AM
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I'm not one of them but I joined the small chorus who called this year as his "make or break" year which I believe was fair.
Still sad to think of those who still post here who had him in a trade with Lannan and Bernadina for BJ Upton.
I said Davey would get MOY votes, and more than Bobby Valentine (who is not related to Fred "Squeaky" Valentine, pictured at left, afaik), but not win. Jury still out there; Davey said he'd vote for Dusty. Maybe the actual voters will, too.
I also really liked the Brad Lidge signing.
Thanks Sofa!!! I can think of a few names that should never be given a special assignment (Marvin Hudson, I am looking at you!)
Perhaps the best thing about baseball is that, among the four major pro sports, its the only one where it seems to be possible to construct championship teams from "character" players.
If you took all the head cases and thugs out of the NBA and NFL, the quality of play would be seriously diminished. And NHL hockey seems to require its goons and designated fight starters to even exist, while all its old-timers-cum-TV-commentators insist such things are needed to produce the adreneline necessary for motivation.
Baseball certainly has its problems. Steroids almost wrecked the sport, not just morally, but by unbalancing the near-perfect interplay of spatial relationships that makes the game truly exciting.
Of course, nobody's perfect. Today's hero may prove to have clay feet in the long run, and we fans don't really know enough to ever be sure, but I am so glad the Nats front office has built this great team with players we can all be proud of.
One of our favorite umps Allen Porter in the DBacks/Rockies game called a runner out at 3rd only it was clear the 3rd baseman didn't have the ball in his glove BUT this time he asks for help and Jim Joyce made the right call and it was reversed.
Umps need to check their egos at the door.
MicheleS said...
Thanks Sofa!!! I can think of a few names that should never be given a special assignment (Marvin Hudson, I am looking at you!)
September 25, 2012 8:42 AM
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Look what I just wrote about Allen Porter. Add him to the list. He never moved in position to see the glove and tag. Just a lazy do the minimum ump.
Davey MOY
Bryce ROY
LaRoche CPOY (Comeback Player)
Gio CY
Rizzo EOTY
Espi GG
LaR & Desi SS
Simply without LaRoche, Zimmerman would be leading the league in errors and Desi wouldn't be far behind him.
ALR has to be the team MVP. Not only did he carry us for the first 45 days or so, can you imagine if we still had Dunnkey at 1st?
I shudder thinking about it.
Well said, Natsie.
I think this post will make Unkyd and JaneB very happy, as two folks who have long been in Desi's corner. I will raise my hand as one who voiced concerns about his defense, in particular, early on. Atta way to show us, Desi! :-)
I find most impressive the way Desi played thru that oblique injury in extreme pain until it finally landed him on the DL then he made it back from the DL quicker than anyone could imagine.
This guy was close to the scrap heap and Davey believed in him while others didn't. I am glad I supported Desi in the face of loud criticism last year.
In Spring Training NatsJack and I discussed that this was Desi's year to prove himself both offensively and defensively.
Diz, I agree with you on Zim's errors without ALR.
I was a big critic of Ian Desmond, but he has had a great year.
It's interesting how this potential trifecta of .300-20-20 is such a modern phenomenon. A lot of great shortstops never got there: Travis Jackson, Appling, Frisch, Cronin, Boudreau, Stephens, Banks ...
In other news, the Tragic Number for tonight's opponent is down to 4.
Me too. I was very skeptical that Desi would work out as the solution at short, but I was wrong. He has been a great SS for the Nats this year and will be a truly great one over time if he can keep it up.
Desi did not start out that well this season. For all of Desi's praise for Davey, it was Davey who insisted that Desi and Espy were his top of the order guys, where they both flopped, badly. One reason the Nats had so many problems scoring early on was because neither guy at the top of the order was getting on base.
Just look at Zim's RBI totals since both of those guys were finally moved down in the order, and Werth and Harp were moved up. The change has benefitted Zim, individually, and the team's offense, tremendously. If Zim stays healthy next year, he could have 130 ribbies, with both Werth and Harp possibly scoring 100 runs, apiece.
Desi has had a great year, but moving him down in the order could mean that Zim will have an exceptional year, next year.
With Desi now slotted more properly in the 5-6 spots in the order, we can expect to see a complete season of the kind of performance he produced once he was placed where he belongs. 30-30 is definitely possible with a full year of Desi hitting out of the proper slot.
Not to be too picky, but Davey is not perfect. Nevertheless, he is also not too stubborn to fail to see when he was wrong, and to correct his mistake.
I would not take any other ML SS over Desi, right now, with the possible exception of Machado, who has even more upside. It looks like the Os have moved him to 3rd, permanently, but imagine a left side of the IF with Zim and Machado. Wow!
Espinoza also benefitted from the move down in the order, getting more hits and a higher BA than last year. But his overall stats are worse this year than last. He already has more Ks than last year, fewer walks, fewer HRs, a lower OBP, fewer RBIs, etc. His slugging stats are about the same, as is his OPS. A full year out of the 7 slot may improve those numbers, but I have not see anything that would lead anyone to believe that he will experience the same kind of explosive improvement we saw in Desi, this year.
I don't suppose there is such a stat, but if there was, my guess is that Espy would lead the ML is swings at pitches out of the zone, way out of the zone, way inside, way outside, and in the dirt. I have seen pitchers give Espy pitch after pitch out of the strike zone, knowing he would swing at most of them, and miss, and eventually strike out. When they give him one over the plate, he can kill it, so why would they do that, except by mistake? So they do not.
Very early in the year, Espy was deliberately more selective, and, for a short time, he almost had as many walks as he had Ks, but that phase was short-lived. He just can't help himself.
Laddie, espinosa is second to Phillips of Cincy, but brandon has a better contact rate at swinging outside pitched than danny.
the stat is called O-swing%.
Just think about the rumored piece parts for the Garza proposed trade...Desmond, Zimmermann, Storen and I don't remember the 4th...Rizzo should get credit for NOT making trades, too...
Since we're all confessing, I'll admit it too--I was a Desi doubter back in the spring.
I didn't think he should be traded or canned to make room for an Espi-Lombo combo, but for me it was a "put him in and hope for the best" situation.
If this is his best, it's pretty darn good. And at the risk of swinging too far the other way--maybe Desi has yet to peak.
Davey is manager of the year in NL hands down and this is why..... Reds were a known quantity, and is it really a shock that they are in post season again?
Nats were given no respect, SI and other MLB publications had them third in the East at best.
On another note about Davey, that I feel is an important aspect to who he is and how he deals with young people... as you all know, Davey and his wife suffered the ultimate nightmare that every parent fears the most... losing a child. Davey and his wife suffered that tragedy. This puts life in perspective and when Davey says things like his concern is first and foremost for the players, their development over winning, it is believable. Davey gets it and that in itself makes him unique.
My face hurst from smiling so much! As my Dad would say, that's a high class problem to have. Nats Fan in NJ, you took the words right out of y fingers: I was going to remind everyone of the trade Rizzo did NOT make. (Did we ever discuss WHERE in NJ? I grew up in Princeton Junction).
And there is no one who is as great with the kids as Desi. Just, you know, wanting to get even more good points about him in the same place.
This post made my day. The win tonight will make my evening. GYFNG!
Yep, I'll admit I wasn't expecting this kind of year either, I thought with his aggressive approach and size he could hit 15-18 homers and around .280 if he was lower in the batting order. I might have traded him for Span even with that guy's concussion problems before the year started, now I wouldn't. It'll be interesting to see if he can keep his average this high along with the power spike. A lot of players peak when they're around 27. I'm more pleased by his solid play in the field than the extra homers, actually. No way I thought he'd be the Nats best player, and he has earned all of that this year.
On a side note, I keep listening on the radio to all of these commentators and watching the guys on MLB and I even had a chance to talk to Charlie Slowes last week and everyone is "Uber" confident we will win the East.
Am I the only one that is nervous?
Maybe it's just me. I went to school at Iowa State and back in the day, I knew what it was like to have a huge lead and watch it disappear.
So, maybe it's just ingrained into my DNA to be the eternal pessimist, but these last 9 games are going to make me lose my fingernails and hair for that matter.
Im glad that Laroche and Desmond exceeded the best-case scenario. I didn't think it would be the case especially for Laroche.
I have to say it seems almost every player on the roster played to their abilities and beyond, I think that's the biggest reason Nats are going to the playoff this year.
If Desmond didn't get hurt he could have been a 30-30 .300 guy.
Ghost @ 9:01 -- no, Desi was NOT "close to the scrap heap" this year except maybe in the minds of some skeptical NI'ers. Given what folks like Jim Leyland and a few other very experienced management guys had seen in him before this year, there's no question Desi would have been snapped up by one of them if he had had another uneven year and for whatever mistaken reasons the Nats had given up on him.
I was with some (like Nats Jack and Gonat) who were neither skeptics nor supporters, just saw that this was Desi's year to show that he could put together in one season the fielding (2011 after his son was born) and hitting (2010) capabilities he had previously shown in separate seasons.
What's most impressive to me about Desi's year is that he's not only put together both parts of his game, he's raised both parts well beyond what he had done before.
Hitting not only for much more power and better average than he did in 2010, but he basically carried the team offensively in the six weeks between mid-May when ALR went cold and late June when the Nats' real Bash Brothers, Zim and the Beast, ignited. He's also continuing to develop better pitch discipline on the first pitch.
Fielding, he has made so few errors since the ASB it's hard to think of them. He's developed great judgment on when to not attempt throws on great stops he makes at the limit of his range, and has learned to act on the understanding that keeping infield hits that he grabs IN the infield is an important task in itself to minimize runners advancing.
His baserunning awareness still needs particular work -- he tends to lose focus and selectivity when he gets on first after key (generally RBI) singles, and either gets picked off or CS too easily, but I have no doubt he will continue to work on and master that too.
And his toughness as Ghost pointed out.
Also as mick said, Davey deserves a lot of credit for the advances of the young 'uns, for -- as Desi said -- giving them the necessary confidence to feel that they were no longer doing the Riggleman auditions where not only were vets automatically favored, but young guys were made to feel like they were walking on eggshells as far as any mistake putting them at risk of getting pulled from the lineup.
mick, you're exactly right about how and why Davey handles the younger players as he does. Great wisdom and emotional intelligence, the latter a rare commodity in professional sports management.
One reason Danny's stats for last year look better than this year is that he had that hot first half when everyone was talking ROY for him. Then the league adjusted and he had a poor 2nd half, and a poor first half of this year--in addition to various "fixes" to his swing that Davey didn't approve of and tried to undo. Now he is showing improvement.
Of course he still strikes out too much. But he has a good eye and needs to be willing to "settle" for a walk. Even hitting in the 7-spot he would be better off getting on base than swinging for the trees. The problem (as I see it) is--especially with men on base--pitchers play on his aggressiveness and he buys into it knowing that the catcher and pitcher are behind him.
Not sure if this has been posted already but another great take on Davey: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/20351475/in-praise-of-davey-johnson
Diz
Could the Nats completely tank and fail to win the division? Yes. Is it likely? No--it's incredibly unlikely (specifically, a 1.3% chance, per coolstandings.com).
I don't know about you, but that's enough to keep my hair and fingernails from harm.
"Laddie, espinosa is second to Phillips of Cincy, but brandon has a better contact rate at swinging outside pitched than danny."
LOL. Thanks for the info. I should have known that somewhere, someone is keeping track of that, too. I guess that means Danny is 2nd at swinging at bad pitches, but first at missing them.
"On another note about Davey, that I feel is an important aspect to who he is and how he deals with young people... as you all know, Davey and his wife suffered the ultimate nightmare that every parent fears the most... losing a child. Davey and his wife suffered that tragedy. This puts life in perspective and when Davey says things like his concern is first and foremost for the players, their development over winning, it is believable. Davey gets it and that in itself makes him unique."
That is why he is so successful. The best managers, in any field, know how to get the best out of their personnel, their biggest asset. You can look around the MLs and see how other managers are demoralizing their players, like Ozzie in Miami and Valentine in Boston. Getting your players to believe in themselves is much more important than game strategy, lineup adjustments, BP management, etc. Several other key players are having their best years, besides Desmond, like Bernie and Det.
That kind of turnaround does not happen by accident, nor do implosions like those in Miami and Boston. Davey is mgr. of the year.
Steady, I remember one poster here whose name starts with P that wanted Espi Lombo as his MIs and wanted Desi traded or a utility player.
"The problem (as I see it) is--especially with men on base--pitchers play on his aggressiveness and he buys into it knowing that the catcher and pitcher are behind him."
He has always been overly-aggressive. When he first came up, he saw a lot of FBs, and pitchers would often come to him, challenging him to hit their best stuff. He did. So they altered their approach until you see it as it has morphed, today, into slow breakers, mostly, and out of the zone, as much as possible.
It is more of a problem with his mental approach. He has tried to change, but he has not yet been able to make his own adjustment to what the entire league is now doing to him.
He can still do it, but the Nats are not going to wait forever for him. I think they will take a hard look at how Rendon does in ST next year. Maybe that will get Danny's attention.
NatsJack, team chemistry is such a difficult thing to predict; sometimes all you need for good chemistry is for the team to win (ie some players are just poor losers). Out of Bell, Beurhle and Reyes I don't know if any of them would be considered bad for chemistry (I don't know enough about them). I think the worst would be Oz - it seems he can only work with certain kind of players and gets on some players nerves. Speaking of chemistry, how about a big shout out to Harper, who I thought would need to be on a sort leash this year; seems he has matured about 5 years this year. I though he might divide the team but that hasn't been an issue.
Ghost -- exactly. That's why I wrote Desi was NOT "close to the scrap heap" this year except maybe in the minds of some skeptical NI'ers.
Fortunately, none of us make or seriously influence those decisions by the team!
Although I wouldn't be surprised if Davey did occasionally browse here just to look for interesting ideas or insights. The most inspiring professor I ever had was a nationally renowned expert in his field who loved teaching so much that he guest taught around the country for 15 years after he was mandatorily retired -- and he had incredible patience listening to students (in office hours) and others with very little knowledge talk, just because (as he said) "you never know when someone will look at an issue from a different perspective you've never considered".
The best are always learning, and always looking for new sources to learn from. That's part of what makes them the best.
Someone asked a few topics ago, so here is the update: The Nationals will start to send out the season ticket post season strips via UPS later this week.
I'm not ashamed to admit I was a Desi skeptic (never a hater). I just didn't think he could improve that much on his career numbers and I thought he was particularly ill-suited to the leadoff role since he swings at the first pitch about half the time and his OBP was awful last year. This year, he's raised his OPS by over 200 points, and his OPS+ from 79 to 129. That is simply phenomenal.
Credit where credit is due, one of his most steadfast boosters has been Bill Ladson, and Ladson took a lot of ribbing for calling him an All-Star quality player. Well, he was right.
I must say, this particular serving of crow tastes really, really good.
"Could the Nats completely tank and fail to win the division? Yes. Is it likely? No--it's incredibly unlikely (specifically, a 1.3% chance, per coolstandings.com).
I don't know about you, but that's enough to keep my hair and fingernails from harm."
What concerns me is the cream puff schedule that the Braves have for their final 9 games, and the tough games the Nats are facing for their final 9. I can see the Braves winning all 9 of theirs (3 against the fish and 3 against the Mets, at home, and then 3 against the hapless Pirates in Pittsburgh). If they lose 1 to the Fish, and 1 to the Mets, the Nats are home-free, as they cannot possibly win fewer than 3 of their last 9 (could they?).
I see tonight's game as a big test, against Hamels. Two years ago, Det would have been over-matched, but not now. It will be a heckuva pitcher's duel. Anyone could win. The Phils are toast, but they still play the game to win. The Nats can win 5 of their last nine, but they will have to earn it.
Come to think of it, we could have a crow banquet for everyone who doubted Desi, Espi, Det, Zim, Werth, LaRoche, E-Jax, Clipp, Burnett, Lannan, Harper .... I'm sure I'm missing someone who took it on the chin in here. Only the H-Rod and Wang doubters will go hungry at that feast. (And Wang might still warrant an appetizer.)
"As I said, this crow is DELICIOUS. =)"
Yeah. It's great to be wrong and see a guy become a star, especially a class act like Desi.
"Team chemistry was NEVER a consideration when making off season moves."
To Rizzo's great credit, it has always been a consideration for him, or has been, since, at least, the Nyger Morgan fiasco.
Going back to the beginning, putting Desmond in a group w/ H. Ramirez is faint praise, considering Ramirez -- unlike the others in the group -- has never accomplished crap for his team. Let's just compare him to Garciaparra, and maybe Trammell, and say that ascension to the Jeter/Larkin level awaits if he continues to improve.
The Mets have won 4 in a row, and 5 if their last 10, same as Philly.
Srsly, relax.
5 *of
*Nyjer. With a jay. How hard is that to visualize?
FS said...
what did Mr Ladson drink before making these predictions?
April 05, 2012 8:24 PM
It is great having opinions/predictions that make you look like a genius but many of those are by throwing darts against the wall and some are by great scouting and analysis.
Ladson was bullish on Ian Desmond. Had him as an All Star and a lofty .360 OBP. I think Mark Zuckerman will nail the attendance and had Strasburg as an All Star.
http://www.natsinsider.com/2012/04/2012-media-predictions.html
NatsJack in Florida said...
SCNatsFan.....team chemistry is at the top of Rizzo's list. He will not consider anyone that even has a hint of malcontent in his character.
September 25, 2012 10:38 AM
Do you think that is why he never got BJ Upton or the trade was never good or Rizzo never considered BJ Upton a problem.
Just curious, when Nyjer Morgan was brought here, Rizzo wasn't officially the GM but was it more about getting rid of Milledge (problem) for a knucklehead (Nyjer) that they thought they could change?
Still waiting to hear some of the back story, as stated by Ian on MLB TV, on how Larry Bowa helped him learn to field his position.
I always felt that Desi would come around; just didn't think that he would put up the super great power numbers of this year.
More to come, and yes without the injury in August his stats would look more like 30-30!
I always felt that when he was out there, he was the heart of the Nats. Now the team's got some other body parts to help out.
Section 3 @ 10:35 -- exactly. Laddie, never underestimate the "taking out frustrations and playing the spoiler" effect of also-rans in late September. It's what the Nats did a lot of in the past 3-4 years. Remember how the Astros just deflated the Phils' balloon by taking 3 out of 4?
As they say, you can't predict baseball. Especially late in the season.
its funny how all the national writers have stop talking about Morgan and how funny he is. Last year, they couldn't stop talking about him.
Ghost @ 10:43 -- how clear was Nyjer's knuckleheaddom when he came here? I know Milledge brought his rep from the Mets but didn't remember it being so distinct from the Bucs. (Not arguing, just asking. There may have been a lot that I missed at that point.)
in my defense, Ladson has always made outrageous predictions. I bet he had Nats as a 100-win team before 2009 season. :P
Anyways, I can't remember which prediction of Bill's prompted me to write that.
I always said this team would go as how our youngsters developed. Mainly, Desi, Espi and Ramos. Little did I know a youngster named Harper would also show up. I thought that was huge when Ramos went down, but Riz pulled another rabbit out of the hat with Susuki. I'll tell ya, Ramos is gonna have a hard time getting his job back.
"It was the Sun Monster bro!"
As I recall, Nyjer had a good reputation when he got here, but not much press attention.
Ghost, Ladson has been touting Desmond for years. For awhile he had an ongoing and very entertaining Twitter battle with Craig Heist of WTOP about it. You have to give him credit.
Of course, he also calls the Shark "Speed Racer" and thought that Austin Kearns would be a .290/30HR/100RBI guy for the Nats. But still.
"Srsly, relax."
When they clinch, I will relax. The BP gave up more runs in the final 2 innings they pitched against the Brewers than the starters did in the 7-8 that they pitched - Clip giving up 3 after EJax had given up only 1, Garcia giving up 2 ER after Gio had given up no ERs, Matheus giving up 3 runs after CMW had given up 2, and Clip, again, giving up 1 run in 1 inning after JZ had given up only 1 ER in 5 2/3.
The SP is going gang-busters, but the BP has been faltering. With better relief performances, the Nats would have won 3 of 4, and could possibly have won all 4 against the Brewers, based on the SP matchups and performances.
They need their BP to return to the force that is was for most of the year. Not just for the rest of the regular season, but for the post-season, as well.
This is where back in the day I would have posted this "[clears throat]" as Fake Mike Rizzo. :-)
Come to think of it, we could have a crow banquet for everyone who doubted Desi, Espi, Det, Zim, Werth, LaRoche, E-Jax, Clipp, Burnett, Lannan, Harper .... I'm sure I'm missing someone who took it on the chin in here.
Section 222 said...
Come to think of it, we could have a crow banquet for everyone who doubted Desi, Espi, Det, Zim, Werth, LaRoche, E-Jax, Clipp, Burnett, Lannan, Harper .... I'm sure I'm missing someone who took it on the chin in here. Only the H-Rod and Wang doubters will go hungry at that feast. (And Wang might still warrant an appetizer.)
September 25, 2012 10:29 AM
I was a Det doubter but I also think I was justified as he did nothing but flash brilliance and then stab you in the heart. His bottomline stats in April looked great but underlying numbers told a different story like the 4 unearned in the Reds game and the high pitch counts.
On July 17th Detwiler came back and used his "smarts" to overcome his deficiencies in stamina as he took his time back on the pine to take his pitching seriously. I immediately jumped on the Detwiler train.
I still am not sold on Espi but I'm not ready to throw him out. On the other hand, HenRod and Wang were and have been 2 big mistakes by Rizzo. Can either come back and contribute? Maybe, if HenRod goes to a sports psychiatrist.
I don't remember Nyjer having a knucklehead reputation when he arrived. He was a sparkplug and played hard. His strange personality and bizarrely oversized ego seemed to develop after he had that great half season.
Thanks to Sofa for the spelling patrol. I agree that it's very annoying to see his name misspelled in an offensive way time after time.
I thought that was huge when Ramos went down, but Riz pulled another rabbit out of the hat with Susuki.
He didn't get Suzuki for months after that--the real rabbit was having so much depth that they could survive with so many catchers getting hurt, and still put a credible MLB player back there--no one made the manager cry.
I was a Det doubter but I also think I was justified as he did nothing but flash brilliance and then stab you in the heart.
That's kind of like saying you were justified in doubting Werth could be a good leadoff hitter because of his attitude last year.... :-)
Come on Ghost, we're all justified in our opinions at the time in our own minds. Step up and accept your helping of crow. It's less filling, and tastes great.
I'm pretty sure I never criticized Desmond and believe I faithfully defended him. Kind of makes me proud now. Other fan boy moments for me ... I have steadfastly stood by Werth and Morse (last year before the breakout). Of course I totally bailed on Nyjer early on and in a less proud moments have been under appreciative of Espinosa, Lannan, and Flores. Actually, my current pet peave (peeve?) is ... wait ... I don't have one. All is good.
And, from Fake Matt LeCroy, "Hey, I resemble that remark." :-)
He didn't get Suzuki for months after that--the real rabbit was having so much depth that they could survive with so many catchers getting hurt, and still put a credible MLB player back there--no one made the manager cry.
When they clinch, I will relax.
And until then, you'll stay clinched; fair enough.
; )
Well, it was just a suggestion.
I just remembered a game changing bad call that cost the Nats a loss and it was against the Reds on April 15th.
Ian Desmond got a slow grounder hit by Scott Rolen and Desi made an off-line throw that LaRoche caught and was on the base but called safe by umpire Mike Everitt.
Detwiler was the pitcher and melted down and turned that error into loading the bases and giving up a grand slam. Nats lost 8-5.
and yes, "peeve."
Speaking of the batting order, it will be interesting to see what happens next year or the year after when Harper moves to the middle of the lineup.
In 1951 Mantle hit all but one of his homers as the lead off hitter or batting second. That didn't last long, and it won't for Bryce, either. The power is just too valuable.
I still think Rendon's high on base percentage will find its way to the No. 2 hole behind Goodwin when this all shakes out, but that returns us to the great question of where Rendon will play -- third, second, first, left or all of the above?
Davey is Manager of the year over Dusty because the Reds were picked by many to be at least second and some had them first in the central. Davey held this team together, gave it confidence and led it to the playoffs.
On Desi, I was a doubter also. The thing that rubbed me the wrong way was how the announcers and others were always calling him a team leader when he was so iffy on the field. He seems almost arrogant when interviewed in the club house after games. That was last year.
This year he, and the rest of the team for that matter, appear almost humble. It's Werth, Derosa and Zim who are referred to as the team leaders, not Desi.
And his numbers and play in the fiels this year, as Mark points out, is great.
Lets win tonight, beat the Philties and knock them out of the WC hunt with 2 wins in this series.
Interesting term, actually. "Peeve" is a fairly recent back-formation (first cite 1910) from "peevish," meaning obstinately argumentative (*cough-nocomment-cough*), itself from Middle English.
Editors must have hated seeing that, 100 years ago.
Because it seems like he is ours for the foreseeable future, I am rooting to have a nice tasty crow dinner in honor of HRod. Even typing his name makes my stomach jump. I would so like to be proven wrong about him.
tough one tonight, going against Hamels and Braves have Medlen.
Put me down as probably the biggest Detwiler basher. I watched him time and again get pounded in Potomac and said the only reason he got promoted was cause he was a number 1 draft pick. Of course, it didn't hurt that he picked up 4-5 mph on his fastball and his command improved dramatically.
I think Davey is far too modest, claiming he has a pushbutton lineup. It looks that way *because* he pushes the right buttons. Still, I don't think it's fair to judge managers by what the team was "expected" to do, but by what the managers actually had to do.
Rizzo has got to be a lock for Exec of the Year, unless the Strasburg thing really does cost him votes. Gio has a good shot at Cy Young, and Harper is still in it for ROY. Comeback Player, LaRoche has to figure strongly on any ballot, and should get significant MVP votes.
GYFNG, indeed!
I never doubted Desi, but I did doubt Detwiler. Seemed like he needed 10 days' rest to pitch 5 good innings. Then he got into that "winning feeling" a little too much and blew a couple of games with what I considered overconfidence (I'm not Davey, but that's what it seemed like to me).
He always had the talent. If he didn't have the talent he wouldn't have been a top pick. It just seemed like something was always going wrong with him, he couldn't be stable and reliable. I credit Davey for picking him over Lannan. But I also credit the example of Jordan Zimmermann for showing Det how to go out there start after start without a lot of drama.
BigCat said...
Put me down as probably the biggest Detwiler basher. I watched him time and again get pounded in Potomac and said the only reason he got promoted was cause he was a number 1 draft pick. Of course, it didn't hurt that he picked up 4-5 mph on his fastball and his command improved dramatically.
September 25, 2012 11:16 AM
Again there is a difference between a "hater" and someone who isn't seeing the progression.
I don't think there were any Det haters but plenty of Desi haters.
Again, looking at progression, Desi had a great push the last 45 days of 2011 and that was the first positive signs that he could be a good hitter. The Brewers walked him 4 times in the last 2 games.
Nice piece on the Nats being built for postseason success (glug glug...aaaahhh).
Sorry if this has been already posted, but I just came across this quote from Davey, when he was discussing the injuries to Morse and Garcia:
"Johnson added after discussing the injury his plans to convert Garcia into a starter over the offseason. He said nothing will change until the spring where the team may work Garcia to get him ready to begin next season as a starter. It is a decision based on his stuff, but also his injury history of two Tommy John procedures.
“I think he could be able to start. You can get a better base in the arm and he has three pitches like a starter would have. He’s got a changeup, curveball, good hard fastball. He would be a candidate for me to start next year,” Johnson said."
As usual, Rizzo is hedging his bets. Garcia has looked great, and I couldn't help wondering why they weren't thinking about making the change. Of course, Rizzo and Davey were already there.
"And until then, you'll stay clinched; fair enough.
; )"
Just being cautiously realistic. The BP has not been doing well, and the Nats recent W/L record is a slightly losing one. Their most recent trip to Philly resulted in a 3-game sweep. It could happen again, especially with the BP giving up so many late inning runs. I think the Nats bats will handle the Cards pitching OK, but the two Phillies series figure to be 2 battles of pitching staffs.
The odds favor the Nats, but they should have wrapped up the title against the Brewers, too, and did not.
Well, I won't say I was a Det "hater" because I try not to hate any Nat, but I definitely didn't think he was going to cut it as a ML starter.
Exec. of the Year, I assume, reflects votes cast before the end of the season, start of the playoffs. I think a lot of ijits will be influenced by the Strasburg thing, without waiting to see whether it pans out (which the media probably would define as getting to Game 6 of the WS).
OK, all that was supposed to be:
tough one tonight, going against Hamels and Braves have Medlen.
Yes, how great is this? I'm looking forward to it. Really, I'm looking forward to attending the Clinching Party on the Oct. 1 homecoming game.
If they've already clinched, can I wear a tux? With a red shirt, of course.
Exec. of the Year, I assume, reflects votes cast before the end of the season, start of the playoffs.
Mark, who is an actual voter, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all such annual awards are voted on before the playoffs.
So, I'm peevish - and don't tell me I'm not. (thanks for the research)
the Nats recent W/L record is a slightly losing one
Depends how "recent." The homestand was 4-3 against two good teams playing hard for the WC. The month is 13-9...
Davey is not conceding the Hamels game. If he were, Lannan would be pitching it (no disrespect). Davey wants to go ahead and win a couple in Filly and not worry about what the Fish are doing.
I think I've discovered the reason you're so nervous (excuse me, "cautiously realistic") -- you keep referring to the bullpen as "BP"--traditionally, "Batting Practice." Try just using "pen" for short. You never know.
Also, on the "rest the regulars" thing. My boss tells me if I meet my goals I get time off, man, that is MOTIVATION! Especially if I'm banged up and tired.
Of that, 2-2 against the Brewers, who were 5-1 coming in (or 8-2 for their last 10).
The homestand was 4-3 against two good teams playing hard for the WC.
NatsLady, except when I get time off, I get to play baseball.
I'm confused again.
MVP for the Nats in 2012--Davey Johnson. What a masterful job he's done with theseyoung players!
Well, speaking of motivation and bosses...
As a regular critic of Desmond's performance I wanted to be sure to post a note of congrats for him. He has had a great year and I'm glad Rizzo/Davey stuck with him.
I always thought Desi was a class act and rooted for him but I often pointed out that his production was lousy. Just a fact. Now, his production is amazing. I couldn't be happier for him and the team.
Crow never tasted so good!
Avar said...
Crow never tasted so good!
September 25, 2012 11:38 AM
At least you admit it. I usually try to temper my observations to what a player has to do to improve.
Davey and Rizzo are smart enough too but sometimes they are wrong. Henry Rodriguez is that player who they are saying the spur in his elbow could have been the reason for his continuous failures---I don't think so. He is one of those players that seems to be a thrower and not a pitcher and succombs to the extreme pressure.
If I was ever to eat crow, it would be on HenRod if he turns out to be a star because I have probably been most critical of him and Espinosa.
Team MVP? Wow, if there was ever a winning team that really didn't just have one guy that clearly stands out as the MVP, this was is it. Cases could be made for ALR's glove, 32+, 100+ RBI season, or Desmond's 20/20 All-Star year,Ryan Zim and his cortisone shot, Werth's lead off numbers and leadership, or Bryce Harper's constant hustle. I think that this whole team gets collective MVP status. I don't ever remember witnessing a winning team with less "me" in it.
GYFNG!!!
Joe, great post. For a while there, none of the position players looked All Star and at the time, Ian Desmond was just performing near the top of a deflated NL shortstop crop.
Now, you have players who have put together really good numbers as you mentioned and as they say the creme has risen to the top.
"Depends how "recent." The homestand was 4-3 against two good teams playing hard for the WC. The month is 13-9..."
Of course. For their last 10, though, they are only 4-6, beginning with the sweep by the Braves in Atlanta. They need to win 5 of their last 9, if the Braves run the table.
"Davey is not conceding the Hamels game. If he were, Lannan would be pitching it (no disrespect). Davey wants to go ahead and win a couple in Filly and not worry about what the Fish are doing."
I am not conceding the Hamels game, either. I would love to see Det build on his success this season by beating Hamels in Philly. But I am equally sure that Davey did not concede any of the games in Atlanta, either. But they still got swept, and they still have lost 6 of their last 10 in crunch time.
Those are just the plain facts. I am afraid that the Fish, Mets, and Pirates are ready to roll over, and the Braves are ready to roll over them. The Phils would probably like nothing better than to deprive the Nats of the NL East title, and they will have 6 chances to do just that. I am ready to give the Mets one win for Dickey, to get him to 20. That may turn out to be a really big game for the Nats, too.
The Nats are going to have to earn that title, IMO.
"I think I've discovered the reason you're so nervous (excuse me, "cautiously realistic") -- you keep referring to the bullpen as "BP"--traditionally, "Batting Practice." Try just using "pen" for short. You never know."
I think I've discovered why you are so snarky. That's all you've got. Try acting like an adult. You never know how that might turn out for you.
Some say that Desi is the team MVP. Others say LaRoche, or Gio, or Strasburg or Zim. In truth it is none of them. The team MVP this year is the guy who administers the cortisone shots.
I spoke to Phil Wood outside the stadium twice this year, once in the late spring, and once last week.In the spring I told him of my two predictions for this year, they being that Davey Johnson would be the NL MOY, and that the last home series against the Phillies would be meaningless as the Nats would have the NL East sewn up, and the Phillies would be out of it. He kind of laughed and said that I might be right on one of my predictions, the Phillies demise. When I saw him last week he still seems very skeptical of Davey's chances of getting the Manager of the Year, not saying that he doesn't deserve it, but that you can never tell how the voters outside of DC will see it. There is also a strong sentiment for Dusty Baker. I just think that Cincy has had a fine season, the Nats have had a much tougher schedule, not to mention lower much lower expectations from most of the National media.
Laddie, the "plain fact" is that Det beat Hamels the last time Hamels faced us. While we didn't exactly batter him around -- scored on an ALR dinger, singles around an error, and an RBI ground out by Werth -- we won by doing what good teams do against good pitchers. Take advantage of mistakes, get timely RISP hits or professional ABs. And shut down the opposition with solid pitching -- 7 IP, 3 H, 2 BB, 3K.
It was a very solid pitching performance by Det at a time when we really needed it, to avoid being swept by the Phils. And launched us on a 16-4 stretch that let us survive the five game losing streak that got some around here so bent out of shape.
Snarky is a bad thing?
I thought all Nats fans did the snark when Bernadina comes to bat ....
Heck we've got a whole city full of snark fans.
Dusty has been in the hospital of late, so that might garner him some sympathy votes for MOY. Davey should have played up his foot problems more when he had them earlier in the season.
Laddie Blah Blah said...
"Of course. For their last 10, though, they are only 4-6, beginning with the sweep by the Braves in Atlanta. They need to win 5 of their last 9, if the Braves run the table."
Winning nine in a row is exceedingly rare, regardless of opponent. We haven't won nine in a row all year, and neither have the Braves. It's such a remote possibility that it's not really worth discussing. Players and teams all have motivation to perform. You acknowledge it in the case of Dickey getting to 20 wins, but what about all the other players fighting for jobs and stats to help in arbitration? What about the Pirates, still clinging to hopes for their first .500 season in 20 years?
The Braves will lose at least 2 of the next 9. Probably more. Take it to the bank.
I doubt the Braves have the pitching to run the table, Medlin notwithstanding. I also think he's far overdue for a pratfall. Nobody goes a year-and-a half without losing a start. I think they lose at least three.
Theo.. my fingers are crossed that Medlins pratfall game is the WC game.
I think I've discovered why you are so snarky. That's all you've got. Try acting like an adult. You never know how that might turn out for you.
That's not true, I also have a decent slider (when I can get it over). I am also an excellent googler, and a very good speller. Anyhow, the adult stuff is for real life, I don't need it in here. Youth is fleeting, but immaturity can last a lifetime.
I think Davey might still have foot issues, as I've noticed him limping on the way out for mound visits.
Also, I think that sec3 has a lot going for him.
Which is not to say that Laddie Blah Blah doesn't. Eh, I'm heading to the new thread now.
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