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US Presswire photo Ryan Zimmerman is thrown out trying to steal second base in the crucial eighth inning. |
"Well," the 69-year-old manager said, "that was a weird one."
Weird, because the Nationals scored two quick runs in the bottom of the first, then were shut out the rest of the night by an assortment of unheralded Phillies pitchers. Weird, because Edwin Jackson served up three homers and put 12 men on base, yet managed to keep his team in the game. And weird because the two most critical moments of the evening involved two Nationals not known for their baserunning skills getting thrown out trying to snag an extra base.
Put that all together and by night's end you had a 3-2 loss that left a surprisingly small crowd of 23,777 scratching its collective head.
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68 comments:
Beat Colbert Thursday night, and all will be well.
I feel like Alfred E. Neuman. "What, me worry?"
LaRoache had a pretty good summary of what happened. It still hurts that we could not take a very winable game. Right on, Sunshine, beat Colbert tomorrow night.
The shot of Zim dead to rights really says it all. 8-0 I can accept, especially against a pitcher like Lee, but tonight the whole team just seemed deflated. Even the 2 runs we did score were gifts on Philly errors.
Also, unless my cold has got to me way more than I thought, it was Erik Krantz behind the plate for Philly tonight, not Ruiz.
Porter has made a lot of mistakes recently. He doesn't seem to do much research on the opposing fielders, as he had a couple players run on Jason Heyward, who is widely known to have a fantastic arm, and Domonic Brown isn't a slouch either.
A 3rd base coach should know the right situations of when to run and when not to, but it seems like Porter just sends anyone from 2nd base regardless of the runner or the fielder. It's cost us several runs now.
Another loss due to over managing. Bo porter is a joke. Let the players decide the outcome. How can you screw up as a third base coach?
Have a ice day all. Gotta go. Bo porter is waving me in.
embarrasment of losses, atlanta is gonna catch us because we can only beat good teams and we lose and drop too many games against terrible teams
I don't think Bo Porter pays attention to the situation. He sent Bryce Harper with an injured foot. He sent Michael Morse, period. He sent the starting pitcher from second and what made it even worse was there were two outs so Jackson had to go right back out and pitch, right after he was tagged out.
The inning after Jackson ran the bases looked exactly like the inning of a pitcher who had just run the bases. It doesn't take much fatigue to take a little off a pitcher's fastball or make a breaking ball break a little less or have a pitch intended to be a few inches off the plate to be right over the plate.
He seems to be so situationally unaware.
Fire Bo Porter
But, Bo Porter is a funny man.
About the attendance. Everyone I know is glued to the Olympics non- stop. Add in vacations and a threat of storms, giveaways, double header and concert this weekend. No one wanted to watch the Phil's on a stormy weeknight. I would be interested to know if any other parks are having Olympic downturns.
Look at the bright side - we didn't break attendance records last night due to an influx Phoolies Phans. ;-)
Haven't yet watched the middle innings, which I missed in real time. That said, yuck on a series loss to the Phils at Nats Park. Howzabout we try to hold 'em off tonight, when Mr. Old School Prestigious himself is on the bump? Yeah, that works for me.
Team was flat again.....No Leaders out there. No Leaders in the Front Office. July 31 comes and goes with GM using MLB roster in a pennant race like it is his off season depth chart toy. Players are not stupid....they know they need a catcher and an infielder and the correct mix of bats and arms to compete.
The Nats had an absolutely torrid July, in last week's 6-1 tear they scored runs in bunches and then had the mega-game on Sunday. Then the screeching halt on Monday, roster moves again. I feel that every so often this season, there have been times where they just get out of sync and have to re-organize themselves.Now we are talking a lineup change with Werth possibly leading off, someone else leaving the team, the dynamics changing. I am ok with them having a lot of games in a row coming up. They seem to do better that way. Off days kill momentum. I also think they might be better on the road away from distractions. Lots of pr, press and interviews going on. Are they starting to get dazzled by their own success when they are here? It's just all so new. They will soon realize that they have to, in fact, show up and play all the games - sub.500 teams won't just lie down and let them win. I am not sure if this mini-slump is over yet. Will Werth spark the team or will his arrival cause more situations to adjust to?
That picture says it all. Out by a lot. I heard Davey stumbling and fumbling in the post-game presser.
Some of you "Nats Fans" who post on here are ridiculous! We lose 2 games to the Phillies (who, even though are in last place, are the 5 time defending NL East champions), and all of a sudden, the sky is falling, we should've made a trade at the deadline,we need to fire Bo Porter, and on and on and on. Yes, we're only up on the Braves by 2 1/2, but raise your hand if you thought we would be in this position this late in the season. Is everyone forgetting we just had a 6-1 roadtrip? Everyone who wants to jump off the Nats ship now, be my guest! We don't need ya. You get a facepalm for acting like a.....anyway, I don't care if we get swept tonight, cause we still have 60-something games to play. So lets stop panicking, and enjoy the ride...GYFNG, baby!!!!!
I have no problem with Zimm trying to get in scoring position, once again I do have a problem with his head first slide. He seemed to take a long time to get up and, if he misses additional games, that was one bad move.
tough assignment tonight with Hamels on the mound and financial security in hand. gyfng
Giving up 12 baserunners won't win any games, even if the HRs are solos. Just a bad night for Jackson. Can't give him much credit for "keeping his team in the game." He's lucky he didn't get tagged for five or six runs.
Zimmerman is clearly out of shape and has no business trying to steal bases. When he scored the winning run in the Milwaukee game he was wheezing and running out of gas as he rounded 3B, and scored only because he kicked the ball out of the catcher's hand.
Saw Kilgore's piece on SBs in the morning WaPo. I understand that the time to work on holding runners is in Spring Training but unless they improve that will be their Achilles heel in the playoffs. If they make the playoffs (meaning beyond the W/C play-in).
With Gio and Stras proving they're human (or as #4 says, "regressing to the mean"), the hitters need to step up. ALR and Harper have been in two-month slumps, Espi and Bernie have cooled off. The Beast is carrying the load. We need Desi and Zimm back now!
Even Worley admitted he left a lot of hittable pitches over the plate last night.
Standing next to terpman33, nodding my head.
If you can't enjoy this ride, then step off, won't do you any good to be griping about a team that so few would be in this position at this time of the season.
Typo correction, take two.
Nice to see that you're no longer driven to distraction by statements that "we're still in first place," terpman. Welcome to the sunny side of the street. It's much more pleasant over here. ;-)
What MichelleS and trepan said. Sheesh, people!
They get Werth back in soon, the next guy will be sent down, whomever that is, and things will settle down.
Beat Colebert is RIGHT! This is one game I seriously want to win. By a lot. Or a little. But win win win.
And if we don't, no firing of anyone.
Terpman not trepan, darn auto correct... Though I had no idea there was such a thing as a trepan to correct TO. And I know. Dangling participle. Fire me.
Postseason tickets $890 per "strip." That is, one seat for all home postseason games--however many there are. I assume that pricing comes from MLB.
… observers often claim religion in Africa is a mile wide and an inch deep. I hope that's not an equally valid description of the Nats' ability to field a contender once September (and hopefully October) gets here.
… RZimm takes two days of rest and the effect is palpable; Des goes on the DL and the potency of the lineup suffers noticeably. Starters start to stumble in the summer heat and it seems there's no one to pick up the slack. Backstops can't find second base.
… I realise, and believe in my heart, things aren't as bad as these circumstances make them appear. But as a dyed-in-the-wool pessimist, I'd always rather be surprised because things are better than I thought, not justified because they are as gloomy as I thought.
Come On Nats; Go!
See, Jane, that's the thing about autocorrect. You been trepanned.
tre·pan 2 (tr-pn) also tra·pan (tr-) Archaic
To trap; ensnare.
n.
1. A trickster.
2. A trick or snare.
There is a modern "trepan" but it's boring.
tre·pan 1 (tr-pn)
n.
1. A rock-boring tool used in mining for sinking shafts.
Some positives from last night: Danny seems to have lost the loop in his swing and was making good contact, again; Harp is squaring up the ball, again; ALR is back and still has his stroke.
Like most here, I do not understand sending EJax home, shortly after he beat out an infield bleeder. Coaches have to coach according to the game situation as much as hitters are expected to hit according to game situations.
And sending Zim? After keeping him out of the game because of a sore back which he reportedly got from sliding at home plate just a couple of days ago? Maybe it was a hit & run call that ALR missed, because he took the pitch. But I don't like the risk-reward of sending your gimpy franchise player in that situation.
This is what it looks like when a projected 85-87 win team gets ahead of itself: a rocky ride--but, boy, a fun ride! (I didn't make the projection, just quoting from way back in spring training).
Who thought we were gonna cruise right to the playoffs like the Yanks or the Rangers? Oh, wait.
August is tough, after a high-flying July. Nose to the grindstone boys--and fans--reinforcements will arrive in September, maybe earlier via the waiver wire.
Lots of posters commenting on this one who haven't been around much recently. What a surprise.
Vance Worley had NO strikeouts yesterday. Usually guys with no Ks in a game get blown up, especially by teams with decent power like the Nats. His performance was about 90% luck. Just a weird game, as Mark says. It happens all the time, but over time they balance out. That's why they play 162 of them every year.
NatsLady,
Exactly right. Still 7 - 3 last 10 games so the 2 loses are not a tragedy. Phills are still a proud veteran team and I am sure they will try like heck to at least get to .500.
-I like the thought of Werth at leadoff.
-The lineup cannot afford to be without Zim for any extended period of time.
-Catching situation must be addressed.
-Desmond is sorely missed.
-Tough matchup tonight trying to salvage a game.
Also good work by Gonzalez, Mattheus, and Burnett out of the 'pen.
Some positives from last night: Danny seems to have lost the loop in his swing and was making good contact, again; Harp is squaring up the ball, again; ALR is back and still has his stroke.
Bowdenball,
I has a bad feeling about the game yesterday after we only scored 2 runs in the 1st inning. Espinosa has to have a better at bat there.
EJax is a good pitcher and was needed this year but I don't know that he's worth 4 years at $50 mil. I don't think he is. We may need to find a better for his slot (someone to bridge the gap until Meyer and Giolito graduate to the majors).
mick said...
Unknown said...
23,777 is pathetic! Fans like that don't deserve a play-off team, which is fine because this team isn't going to make it.
we got soem now piling on after 2 losses in a row about attendance, which is so far off..
let me add my friend, Nats are almost at 1.5 million fans with most of their home games left to play and are 13 out of 30
Nats attendance has been EXCELLENT!
Some may disagree with this as well, but August is a prime vacation month so attendance at home games even among contenders will dip a little.
A good friend of mine from Philly (please do not ex communicate me from here ha ha) who has both Eagles and Phils season tickets since the early 80's tells me that in August attn is down and the first week of NFL season is down due to most fans going to the Jersey Shore
we will be fine, I thought Nats did play hard last night unlike on Tues, when I feel they were emotionally and physically exhaustted
one more point on mental fatigue... very young players are more likely to go through this than vets. they will be fine
jD... my only problem with Ejax was his 2nd HR he gave up to Rollins. He is a veteran pitcher and the 1st HR is fine, but the second one simply means Ejax was not prepared. A rookie pitcher that is fine, not a veteran pitcher as you said, making $50 over 4 years
The advice that Bryce Harper got from George Thorogood on destroying the pitch must have worked. Even his 3 AB out was smashed.
Tonight is Hamels "old school".
Mick,
He's not making that this year (1 year $11mil) but I think that this is what it will cost to sign him long term. His numbers this year are in line with his career numbers so what you see is what you get. I think Rizzo will find another pitcher during the off season who will sign for a year or 2.
Ghost,
Keep in mind that Bryce was batting against Vance Worley last night. Worley is a comfortable pitcher who should have been handled by our lineup but wasn't.
If Bryce looks good against Hammels tonight we will have a better feel if he's really coming out of it.
OK JD, good point, could that pitcher be Grienke? or, do we sign Ejax, he wants to stay
JD, all good points. I think this go-round with Werth at leadoff might be better than the last round, where it was more a matter of let's-try-everything-maybe-something-will-work.
We have power down in the lineup (RZ, ALR, Morse) so Werth's high OBP and ability to disrupt pitchers' focus on the basepaths will be fun.
Have to remember that we are now on the backup to the backup plan for catcher and infield when Flores and RZ are out. The boys are tired and banged up. But so are other contending teams' boys.
The teams we need to watch out for are the "bad" teams, because those are the ones who got fresh blood via callups and trades. Remember how good our September was last year?
Looking late August for Desi's return. Good to know that Tracy can still play 3B.
I understand JayB's frustration with the bench, but a lot of teams hunt around Japan and the minors for a Tracy-type and end up with Xavier Nady or Mark DeRosa (or Willie Harris). Unless you are willing to give $8 million and two years, you are not going to get Jerry Hairston or Laynce Nix to sit on your bench. In retrospect, yes, maybe if Rizzo had known that the Nats would be serious contenders he might have spent more, but if our 5-man bench consists of Bernadina, Tracy, Lombardozzi, TyMo/Corey Brown, and backup catcher, that's not the worst bench in the majors. Need to get Desi back and keep RZ healthy so that is our bench for the playoffs.
EJax thought he was possibly tipping his pitches till he saw the replay. He admitted the 3HRs were on thigh-high, middle-in pitches. Just missed his locations.
Hell, even Davey could've hit those out.
The 1st inning home run is more of Jackson's "the game starts after I shake the cobwebs out of my head" problem. Both home runs to a superannuated singles hitter are inexcusable. Jackson says they were "mistake" pitches. Damn right they were mistakes. Dug himself a hole with the first one, shoveled dirt on top of himself with the second.
"23,777 is pathetic! Fans like that don't deserve a play-off team ..."
... don't forget though Mick, many of us who are die-hard, long-term fans cannot and have not been to Nats Park, and likely never will. Are we not deserving of the benefits of a successful team? I hope so.
Go Nats!!
NL,
JayB wasn't happy with Nix and Hairston either last year. I asked who he would have signed for our bench and he suggested Beltran abd Cuddeyer. Enough said.
You are exactly right; every team fills out their roster with veterans past their prime to come off the bench. Once in a while it works (Tracy) and most of the time they prove why they are bench players. If you look around the league everybody has several .210 and .220 hitters coming off the bench.
Mick,
I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that the Angels will put a full court press to sign Greinke and they normally succeed in keeping their rentals.
NatsLady said...
Postseason tickets $890 per "strip." That is, one seat for all home postseason games--however many there are. I assume that pricing comes from MLB.
Q: So doing some quick math, that is an average ticket price of $81 per postseason game ($890/11 possible (most) games), what is your normal season ticket price per ticket, so we may compare.
Let us know.
[I realize that the World Series Tickets included are likely marked the most, skewing the average higher]
This team has not improved in baby steps - this year has been meteoric. I just don't know how, with all the injuries, they have kept this up.How can they possibly keep it up? I just don't see how we can be upset with them for playing so far over their heads for so long and then coming back to earth. It could only be temporary and it could be that they spent all their magic and will be ordinary for the rest of the season.Does that take away from their heroics for 4 months? It doesn't to me. If they just can't hold on the whole way,it won't be for lack of hustle and guts. Young teams who are new at the whole "good team" thing are going to have ups and downs. They just came off a blazing hot streak and so I think it is only natural for a let down to happen. I have been reading a lot of shock and indignity about the low attendance. I think the ultimate insult to the phils is that no one wants to watch them play - absolute apathy. Their fans didn't come.Not even the nats could get up to play them.A sure sign that they have become irrelevant. In reality I think there is a lot going on this weekend at the park - if you are going to come to one game this week you are probably going to do the dh, give away game or concert. It did seem to be a weird vibe though, nats/ phils - yawn.
JD said...
Ghost,
Keep in mind that Bryce was batting against Vance Worley last night. Worley is a comfortable pitcher who should have been handled by our lineup but wasn't.
If Bryce looks good against Hammels tonight we will have a better feel if he's really coming out of it.
With all the negativity, I'm trying to put a positive spin on it.
Truthfully, as bad as Worley has been his last 5 starts, the Nats should have smashed him. He hung many curves and made many mistake pitches.
Espi was again trying to hit him 500 feet and the Nats aggressiveness did them in all night. Rallys usually start with singles and doubles, not leadoff solo HRs.
In the 9th inning and 1 out, I can understand Espi trying to crush one, not the early innings.
natscan, mich was quoting another poster ("unknown") in order to refute claims about attendance. I can say that fully 1/2 of my students are out of town in August, and it might be closer to 2/3 for the first two weeks of August. So instead of families taking kids to a baseball game, they are off to the beach or driving to the Grand Canyon.
They will return...
Or they are on a day trip to training camp ("open to the public") to see the newest boy-toy. That will wear off.
Tcostant said...
NatsLady said...
Postseason tickets $890 per "strip." That is, one seat for all home postseason games--however many there are. I assume that pricing comes from MLB.
Q: So doing some quick math, that is an average ticket price of $81 per postseason game ($890/11 possible (most) games), what is your normal season ticket price per ticket, so we may compare.
Don't know where she's getting this information. My seat is in the IF Gallery. When I go online to buy the postseason strip, I'm being invoiced for $502 (plus a $20 "convenience" fee). As soon as I click to buy the full postseason strip, they will charge my credit card for that amount. But that charge does not include the World Series games that are part of the strip. They will charge my credit card for another amount (unspecified) on October 10th to cover the WS games. So the $502 covers one tiebreaker game, one wild card game, three NLDS games, and four NLCS games - a total of nine possible games. (Of course some of these games may not be necessary, in which case they will refund the money for them after the fact.) That works out to almost $56/ticket for a seat that costs a full season ticket holder $20 for the regular season. I'm sure whatever the eventual WS price is, it's going to be even more than that. You can only imagine what the seats that cost $50, $75, $100 or more during the regular season are going to go for in the playoffs.
Ready for a nice win today which will drive away at least 3 or 4 posters for a day. I am fine with JayB who has been a fan & poster since day one. He doesn't write much when things are going well but that is his style. Some of these other "gloom & doom" people just wake up with a glass half empty (or completely empty) so its just something we have to get used to.
Tcostant - the strip of playoff tickets for our group is priced about the same and our base ticket is around $22. I looked at my old Oriole tickets from 96 (al championship series) and 97 (Al division series) and they were $45 & $30 respectively. I realize that is some time ago but I think our season tickets were also around $20/ticket so the bump was not as great.
I am hoping we do not have to buy all 5 seats and that the Nationals will let us get 2 or 3. It seems like we will be able to put that money toward next season if we don't have all the games played out. I also am wondering about how easy it will be to sell tickets we can't use. In a brilliant move, I scheduled a week in the Outer Banks from Oct 6 - 13. Will make sure that doesn't happen again.
Go Nats!!
Source of my information.
postseason tickets
As you can see from the discussion, prices vary.
"Truthfully, as bad as Worley has been his last 5 starts, the Nats should have smashed him. He hung many curves and made many mistake pitches."
These things are relative. Worley must have looked really tough after the Nats feasted on Milwaukee's BP over the weekend - like going from batting practice to the real thing. They also made Pomeranz, Sheets and Buerhle look better than they are. Of those three, only Buerhle impressed me, mainly with his command, but not with any stuff.
Maybe they are just having a let-down after so much success. They miss Desi's bat, too. They have been dealing with so many injuries, and that may finally have caught up with them. The Shark and Danny had made up for Desi's absence while they were hot, but both have cooled off.
They are too good a team not to snap out of it. That is assuming Zim is OK. He is the indispensable bat in that order. They had a big July largely because Zim was so hot. He did not look all that loose to me last night.
natscan reduxit said...
"23,777 is pathetic! Fans like that don't deserve a play-off team ..."
... don't forget though Mick, many of us who are die-hard, long-term fans cannot and have not been to Nats Park, and likely never will. Are we not deserving of the benefits of a successful team? I hope so.
whoa!! I was responding to the post, you did not read it my post!!!
nats reduxit... below is the repost READ CAREFULLY!!!
mick said...
Unknown said...
23,777 is pathetic! Fans like that don't deserve a play-off team, which is fine because this team isn't going to make it.
we got soem now piling on after 2 losses in a row about attendance, which is so far off..
let me add my friend, Nats are almost at 1.5 million fans with most of their home games left to play and are 13 out of 30
Nats attendance has been EXCELLENT!
Some may disagree with this as well, but August is a prime vacation month so attendance at home games even among contenders will dip a little.
A good friend of mine from Philly (please do not ex communicate me from here ha ha) who has both Eagles and Phils season tickets since the early 80's tells me that in August attn is down and the first week of NFL season is down due to most fans going to the Jersey Shore
that was unknown's post, i was responding to it!
You guys missed the best definition of "trepan"...to bore a hole in someone's skull. (Check out the Russell Crowe movie Master and Commander for a good trepanation scene!)
NatsLady pointed that out earlier, Mick. We have your back. ;-)
mick said...
that was unknown's post, i was responding to it!
August 02, 2012 12:12 PM
btw, I'll also be away some in August. :-)
thank you natslady and natsfan1a!!!
This wasn't really a wierd loss. It was probably representative of the way the Nats will play the rest of the year. Unfortunately. The Nationals aren't ready for prime play yet. They played way over their heads the first half. We are about ready to see the real team. Enjoy.
Zimmermann love:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/cliff_corcoran/08/02/justin-verlander-jordan-zimmermann-cy-young/index.html?sct=mlb_wr_a1
rabbit34 said...
This wasn't really a wierd loss. It was probably representative of the way the Nats will play the rest of the year. Unfortunately. The Nationals aren't ready for prime play yet. They played way over their heads the first half. We are about ready to see the real team. Enjoy.
Oh, you're a member of a doom-and-gloom club, too?
Let's see: last 10 games, 7-3, right? Since all-star break, 11-8 (.578), right? _This_ is the real team?
Thanks! I _will_ take it. A clip of .578 for the rest of the season will certainly give us first place, and in the running for the best record in the NL.
(I'm assuming you can't possibly be as silly and ignorant as to extrapolate the entire rest of the season based on a micro-sample of size of two games without RZ and Ian starting, and without our current #1 and #2 pitchers starting).
I totally missed that the playoff tickets were on sale now! I'm going there in a minute. Obviously prices change based on where your season seats are in the stadium .
I'm skipping all doom and gloom posts, personally especially those from new posters. Koolaid HELPS the moronic field of the team, and I'm helping all I can.
And natslady... Thanks for the laugh!
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