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US Presswire photo Jordan Zimmermann watches Jimmy Rollins round the bases on a fifth-inning homer. |
Hitting lowlight: Stifled all afternoon by Lee, the Nationals finally appeared to deliver a big blow against the veteran left-hander when LaRoche launched what appeared to be a two-run homer to right in the top of the seventh. Except the ball struck the top of the railing above the fence and bounced back into right field. First-base umpire Gerry Davis immediately signaled the ball in play, but neither LaRoche nor Jayson Werth (who started on second base) noticed. So both runners coasted, assuming a home run. LaRoche wound up getting tagged out, with Werth stuck on third, and that's how they remained after the umpires reviewed video of the play. They did manage to score one run when Tyler Moore doubled, but that gaffe cost them at least one run and possibly more. It was a bad moment for two veterans who should have known better.
Pitching lowlight: Zimmermann looked absolutely fantastic for four innings, carving up the Phillies lineup with ease. Then he gave up an RBI double to Lee in the fifth and melted down. Rollins followed with a two-run homer to right, putting the Nationals in a 3-0 hole and spoiling what could have been a solid outing by Zimmermann. Remember when he could be counted on to go six innings every single time out? (He did that in his first 21 starts of the season.) Well, Zimmermann now has failed to complete six innings in four of his last five starts. Is his shoulder barking? His velocity remains high, but only Jordan knows the answer.
Key stat: LaRoche and Ryan Zimmerman have combined to hit one home run over the Nationals' last 20 games.
Up next: The Nationals were originally supposed to fly to Miami following today's game, but with Hurricane Isaac closing airports in South Florida, they decided to spend another night in Philadelphia and travel on their off-day. Assuming the storm passes through, their series with the Marlins will open at 7:10 p.m. Tuesday, with Stephen Strasburg facing Ricky Nolasco.
93 comments:
Does the Legion of Doom have room for one more patron?
That makes 4 incredibly poorly played and managed games in a row. Maybe if Desmond deigns to play again this season, it might help a little, but basically, you cannot count on this team hitting, ever.
Haha..They're always recruiting...but that's a club that may never let you leave!! What will you do if the Nats win a few games? Lol
Veteran leadership needs to step up now!
no legion of doom with me... just think these boys need a kick in the ass and they will be fine
The Nats have played poorly, and deserve to be criticized...The Legion of Doom is the dopes who ONLY show up when the Nats lose, and are never around during the winning streaks....
Of course, when the team loses 4 in a row, it's fair to point out the problems
The good: Drew Storen and Tyler Moore--and Roger Bernadina! The bad: OK four game losing streak. Stay safe, boys. Get some rest.
Ah, I see fans are beginning to notice what I've noticed and said all year....WE NEED BATS!
No, the bad is that the Nationals played sloppy, mentally deficient baseball.
How many years has Adam LaRoche been playing baseball? He should give today's salary to charity. That might be the stupidest play that I have ever seen in my life. Bonehead Merkle, where are you?
There you go...right on cue!
Please name a team that does NOT need bats...did you also invent the saying that "good pitching beats good hitting"?
Eagle, absolutely. JZ completely lost focus. Whether it was the passed ball or the double to Lee, he just lost it. That CAN'T happen. Nor can brain cramps by two veterans (even though it didn't cost the game). They will fix that, you can BET money on it.
It should not depend on an umpire, period.
As mick said, they should have a team meeting. Flo should "apologize" for the passed ball--and for not hitting any better than Suzuki. Werth and ALR should say, "it won't happen again." Pat the rookies on the behind and go from here.
Hope Lincicom pitches well tonight however Hudson probably will do it instead.
Cliff Lee no wins since last Sept at home. Three wins all season 2 against Nats. WOW !!!!
An ode to Michael Morse:
Thumb thing in the way he moves ...
(Deep breath, folks. They'll right the ship.)
Hey swift I am a proud member of doom. I havent missed a game yet this season. Don't worry I'll be there. Sunshine we got room for you.. We only need 4 more wins to improve over last year. Then all the non dormers can have a parade for a winning season at 82 and 80'. Go nats
I don't think anyone has a problem with losing three straight on the road to a team with a good pitching staff, as long as the Nationals play heads up, inspired baseball. Sometimes, the balls just don't drop in.
But that is not what happened in these three games. The Nats looked flat and made several bad mental errors.
But that is not what happened in these three games. The Nats looked flat and made several bad mental errors.
That is true. And as calm and reasonable as Davey seems in pressers, you can bet he won't let that pass. Davey is in it to win it.
Good for you! Imagine how much fun (doom) you would have if the Nats didn't have the best record in baseball...Lol.
Exactly why do you follow a team everyday if you're hoping they fail?
The 1975 Reds lost six in a row once, and four in a row twice, winning 108 overall.
This team has been good because so many different guys have come through at key moments to complement the pitching staff. This time of the year is for the veterans like Zimmerman, LaRoche and Werth to step up and carry this team offensively. They are failing miserably. Werth and Zimmerman have a combined 1 HR in August and LaRoche hasn't hit one in 65 AB's and looks awful right now. These 3 guys will determine the fate of this season. The young guys have done their part, it is up to the big money guys to earn their paychecks!!!
Mick says veteran leadership needs to step up. Mick I agree. Unfortunately the vets are what let us down the last 4. We will beat Miami. All is well.
Complaining about a team doesn't mean you hope they fail. I want to win more then anything. I Am not an "I told you so guy"'. You guys think if it's not all positive we hate the team. Not so. Just frustrated. We have the doom group. I thinks it's time for the "Rose colored glasses group"
A few observations:
1) The difference between a veteran pitcher and Jordan Zim is the ability to limit the damage. After the Lee double Cat should have come out to calm him down.
2) Flores is not in Suzuki's class catching wise.
3) This was a classic trap series playing against a veteran team which has nothing to play for other than spoiling, with great pitchers who were on their game for a change.
4) ALR finally had 2 straight solid at bats; watch out he is due for another hot streak.
5) Zim alternates looking great and lost from game to game.
6) Werth tried too hard in Philly.
I'm not saying we should be "all positive"...the team has played poorly recently, and needs to do better
What I'm saying is that you and your crew are All Negative...Go ahead, try it, say something good about the Nats...if you can't, then you're not a fan
but that's a club that may never let you leave!!
That's the Hotel California.
Phillies pitching dominated. They still do have excellent pitching even after losing Roy Oswalt et al. And they're playing the Nats like every series is the playoffs. It behooves the Nats veterans (Especially Jayson Werth who swore he would avenge himself?) to play better.
Right now the baby Nats are looking like they might develop into something a lot better than veterans like Werth, LaRoche and even Zimmerman and his shoulder have shown. Can't wait to see Rendon.
Lets see, it was all over when we were swept by the Dodgers. Then the season really collapsed with that sweep by the Yankees. Now look where are...Best record in baseball, First place in the division. Bet about 15 other cities would trade us their team for ours without a bat of the eye. Good news for doomers and gloomers..Skins and Terps seasons start soon and their play will match up well with your attitudes.
Zim alternates looking great and lost from game to game.
That's his shoulder ... it limits his ability to get extension especially on outside pitches and opposing pitchers know it.
If he has surgery this offseason they would be wise to think seriously about moving him to first base where, hopefully, he will be less exposed to injury risk. And based on the last Rizzo call-in show where that question was specifically, directly and painfully asked, and listening to him tap dance to the music ... its probably "the plan" at this point in time.
Just be happy the Nats don't have the Japanese Little League team on the schedule!..Yikes
JD, good observations, especially the last one. Cat should have come out, Desi would have come out, Flo should have come out.
I would bet that JZ is the type who doesn't like the pitching coach or catcher to come out and "give him support." He needs to get past that, everyone needs support. JFlo needed to come out after the passed ball and say, "my bad, don't worry, we got this."
I think the team will do better. If you thought the Nats were going to waltz into 100 wins after only 80 last year, think again. It is going to be a fight--but we got all hands on board, especially Moore, Lombo and Bernie--and Bryce with that great catch. Give them a chance to "express their talent" as Davey says.
Maybe it's because their least favorite lefty threw a 3 hit gem of a shut out last night. Great job John Lannan.
That's probably because I was the first to announce that event yesterday as I WAS WATCHING and not drinking gin 'n tonics on my front porch waiting for the above mentioned hurricane.
Werth definitely tried too hard in Philly, just like he did last year. He needs to just play HIS OWN GAME. Werth a nice guy, trust me. Have a student who goes to school with his kids, he is a GOOD GUY.
How you doing, NJ? Watching Isaac from afar. Stay safe.
NL
BTW,
That's another thing I like about Suzuki. He knows when to slow a game down. No question he would have gone out to talk to JZim after the Lee hit and absolutely after he fell behind on Rollins.
The game was still very winnable at 1-0 and the Werth ALR play was also very significant. If they don't mess it up it's 4-2 (after the Moore double) with a man on second and no one out. You never know where it goes from there.
All in all it shouldn't be a big deal. We still have the Braves by 5 games with a big 11 game home stand coming.
Mark Z. Was that you asking Davey about the Nats "taking their foot off the gas pedal" in his post-game presser? He did not seem to be pleased. ;-)
Nats now regroup.
Time for hitters to quit hitting like April.
Also time for the starting pitchers to not give up the first run.
Davey's comments had a big edge to them, appropriately. Said that the play by "two veterans" demonstrated a "losing attitude". You never take anything for granted, etc...
Losing is bad. Brain carts are worse
tRA
TRA assigns run and out values to all events under a pitcher's control using changes in run expectancy. Using those, an expected number of runs allowed and outs is generated in a defense and park neutral environment. tRA is on a R/9 scale.
PRAA
Pitcher-only runs above average. The difference between this and RAA is that RAA is really a total defense statistic, and PRAA tries to isolate the pitching component from the fielding portion. It relies on the pitching/fielding breakdown being run for the team, league, and individual. The individual pitching + defense total is compared to a league average pitcher + team average defense, and the difference is win-adjusted.
Source: baseball prospectus.
Looking at Lannan's season in Syracuse.
John Lannan at AAA Syracuse
5.49 tRA -13.1 [p]RAA
Looking at power pitcher Ryan Perry's in Harrisburg:
Ryan Perry 3.72 tRA +6.6 [p]RAA
I am still hoping the Nats decide to start and evaluate Perry
in September. He appears to be a much better "diamond in the rough"
pick up than former rule 5 guy Brian Broderick that happens to
also be pitching there. Also, he sure beats Colin Balester.
Brian Broderick 5.72 tRA -1.3 [p]RAA
You got it swift. Just a little frustrated. Maybe more so because it's the philthies. I think the nats are great. Just want to finish what they started. I think they will.
It is going to be a fight--but we got all hands on board, especially Moore, Lombo and Bernie--and Bryce with that great catch. Give them a chance to "express their talent" as Davey says.
Yes, indeed. I think Davey double-switched the wrong player out. I would have removed Werth and LaRoche for lack of hustle that was definitely a mental miscue that they should know better than to do. Especially on a team with Bryce Harper ... and now I just hope Werth et al don't corrupt the kid with ideas about coasting and taking it easy to save energy or whatever.
That makes 4 incredibly poorly played and managed games in a row. Maybe if Desmond deigns to play again this season, it might help a little, but basically, you cannot count on this team hitting, ever.
In two years when the young guns mature I'll remind you about that. Patience with what is a "real plan" not a fly-by-night do whatever like Stan is doing in LA.
Post of the day award goes to ...
NatsJack in Florida said...
Note to Nats....do not pitch to Giancarlo Stanton.....ever.
Isaac will cause a mess but no real problem for Central Florida. It can screw with the Republicans all it wants as far as I'm concerned.
That is just so right on so many levels, Jack.
peric, your Werth bashing just never ends does it? just what did he do wrong on that play? it was LaRoche that feel asleep, the ball was in play and thrown in to home. Werth picked that up and stayed at third.
I doubt that anyone with a reasonable perspective feel that he's a bad influence on Harper.
"You never take anything for granted, etc..."
Yeah. And don't forget Zim's "blasé" (Mark's characterization) remarks yesterday, when the losing streak was only 3 games.
Werth played for years in RF and should have known the ground rule better than anyone else on the Nats. You often see players stop at 2nd base waiting for an umpire to make a ruling on a fly ball hit like that, but ALR neither looked at the umpire nor waited for a call.
If the vets had played like the kids, this may have been a different series.
JZ's recent problems are worrisome. Last year, he seemed to hit the wall at about 80 pitches - first year back from TJ surgery contributed to that, no doubt. Earlier this year, 6 or 7 innings from him were a given, virtually every time out. Recently, he seems to hit a wall at about 80 pitches, again. He has never pitched so many innings in one season as he has this year, and his shoulder has been barking.
JZ may be reaching a physical limit on what he can do, as young as he still is, and trying to complete his first full season after major surgery.
The Nats should realize that this losing streak, at this time, is no laughing matter. They are very fortunate that the Braves have chosen the same time to take a nosedive of their own. This is where Davey must bring them back to reality.
I don't think losing Morse was much of a blow to the offense. TyMo went 3 for 5 with a HR and 2 doubles, and the Shark was almost unstoppable. Desi was missed, though, as Lombo came back to Earth after a torrid streak that was unsustainable.
Werth was pressing. He has not looked this bad all year.
Take it out on the Fish. We owe them one, or two, or three, at least.
"Isaac will cause a mess but no real problem for Central Florida. It can screw with the Republicans all it wants as far as I'm concerned.
That is just so right on so many levels, Jack."
Let's keep politics off the thread. I can go all day with the both of you, and you wouldn't like it.
The bad play was 100% on ALR. Werth had to hold at 2nd to make sure the ball wasn't caught. ALR has to see that the player in from of him is stopped at 3rd. if it's a HR he has plenty of time to jog home.
Sunshine @ 5:34 (praising NatJack's multiple points): Concur.
alexva @ 5:40: I'll defend peric on this one: Jayson Werth -- who played RF in Philadelphia and should know the ground rules there as well as anyone -- should have been running hard from the moment he (or the third base coach) noted that the ball had bounced back into play. And if he had been running hard, Adam LaRoche would likely have done the same. Is it an unforgivable error? Of course not. And some of the responsibility probably rests with Bo Porter. But that play -- if Mr. Werth had scored and Mr. LaRoche had ended up on second -- would have changed the complexion of the game. But that's speculation.
To be clear, I'm not going 'doom and gloom'; as I wrote yesterday, the Nats are going to lose at least 14 or 15 more games, and losing a few of those in Philadelphia to two superb pitchers (plus one decent one) isn't reason to panic. The team has come back before and I'm convinced they'll do so again. In the meantime, one key is to keep rooting for whomever the Braves are playing, which I'll be doing shortly.
I just saw the play again and I take my comment back. Werth should have scored easily from 2nd regardless.
NJ
Not panicking just making observations. The Nats are not likely to collapse but there are areas of concern to be sure.
I agree with Laddie 100% about keeping politics out of this blog.
JD said...
I just saw the play again and I take my comment back. Werth should have scored easily from 2nd regardless.
August 26, 2012 6:08 PM
_______________________________________
Yes, there was no reason for Werth to be at 3rd...if he thought the ball was going to be caught, he'd have been at 2nd.
When you're on 2nd with less than 2 outs, a ball in the air to the outfield means you tag or you score...no scenario should have you at 3rd..
I think ALR was shocked that it wasn't a HR, and then stunned to see Werth at 3rd...
This team has gotten my expectations way out of whack. I need to step away from baseball for a few days to regain my sense of reality
Since Werth scored with Moore's hit it excusable. LaRache though should have been on second.
Natsjack.... I'm with you on Isaac, lol
We will be fine, I am going to bet that the Phillies will not only finish strong, they may some how sneak in
ALR didn't do anything wrong. The only reason he was called out was b/c he and Werth were at 3rd at the same time...He ran from home to 3rd before the throw arrived, that's as fast as he can go...
that is only on the assumption that Pirates, Cards fade as well as Giants
Swift... it goes back to, did one ump say HR and the other said in play?
Politics? I thought that was a weather/religion comment. God sure hates someone because he's clearly sending a hurricane to wash 'em away!
OK, enough of this silliness. Nats have to regroup and play well in Miami. Stras seems to pitch well there, but hitting is another matter in that abomination of a ballpark. Maybe we should think about slapping the ball around, instead of trying to hit it farther than it can go?
GYFNG!
You're right Mick, and only those on the field know that...
What I'm saying is, there is NO reason for Werth to be on 3rd base, no matter what the call was...he just screwed up, it happens
agreed JD.... baseball is and should be the one thing that brings everyone together reardless of politics, religion, etc...
Swift.. agree with on Werth
I guess what I didn't see was whether Werth just trotted after the ball hit the rail, or was running hard and the throw was coming in PTO home plate ahead of him, so he retreated. Anyone see that?
ehay2k... I think Swift is right, Werth should have run home period... but I really think one ump said HR and the other said in play and that caused the confusion. Regardless, Werth should have hauled ass home and then wait for the official call, whatever that was?
natsjack, ha ha ha ha I hear you!
ALR had time to run from home to 3rd w/out being tagged out..
Werth must have been at least near home plate, then for some reason, returned to 3rd...Why he thought he would be "out" at home, but "safe" at 3rd I do not know....
Flat Flat Flat -- Seems to me that all season we have all been amazed at how well the Nats have been doing; every series was bigger and more important than the last. The team felt the same way getting psyched up for every season as if they had to prove something.
Now comes the transition phase, where a team has accepted how good they are and believe it too -- and now are faced with perhaps the First Series all year that didn't excite them. And the Nats went flat.
Simply, now the Nats have to learn to win and get up for games not out of emotion, but simply out of a professional will to Win.
But have no fear. Nobody, but nobody probably understands this nuanced transition phase better than Davey Johnson. He knows exactly how to handle it.
For example, I liked what he said describing La Roche homerun trot gaffe. Davey said "that's a loser attitude" that he showed there.
Cool, Davey is on it. This will be very interesting to watch.
ALR was running hard until he saw Werth at 3rd, and he stopped...I don't see how he did anything wrong...I guess he could have run back to 2nd...but he was running hard
Where are you seeing that Jack? I can't even find any postgame quotes from anybody!
I agree NatsJack. We do not need the brass losing it right now. Besides, Davey does not put up with overbearing bosses for very long.
Mark's Twitter: Davey and Rizzo had an animated talk behind closed door but Nats did not hold team meeting after fourth straight loss.
______________________________
1) Flores passed ball to break up JZim's rhythm in a scoreless game
2) Next batter is Cliff Lee. Bryce Harper playing Cliff Lee like a chump with a man on 2nd. Would he have been playing back further if the runner was on 1st?
3) Before you know it, JZim melts down. Like mentioned, goes back to the passed ball and Harper playing shallow
4) Werth not running and LaRoche trotting like a HR costs the Nats an all important out and most likely another run and a big inning.
Its been a week of walking pitchers, walking leadoff batters, poor baserunning (Espi), and much too many swing & misses by Nats hitters.
Twitter Mark and Amanda Swift.
NatsJack in Florida said...
Twitter. Mark, Adam, Kolko and Amanda all reporting setious shouting nehind closed doors with Davey saying " then you can come down and manage the team."
I want to see some fire... but not that, I hope Rizzo did not jump on Davey.
This where Werth and Zim and ALR need to have a team meeting and begin it with.... this is our fault as a team and we created the fight with Davey and Mike.
Thanks, I forgot to check Twitter! I'm so old school I was actually looking for an article with quotes and a box score! Mark also called it a "NonStory"
funny... if Billy Martin was manager, you would have a scrap with Rizzo and Martin, lol
Werth on assuming HR: "I obviously messed up the play, cost Rochie an easy RBI and potentially cost us a win."
From Mark's tweet
" then you can come down and manage the team."
Just to be sure none of the above listed by NatsJack actually reported what they heard. Mostly the tone which I guess could be described as frustration. Rizzo absolutely hates losing to the Phillies as he has stated on numerous occasions. Today he might have felt just a bit more like some Nats fans on this blog.
Peric, it is being reported by Ladson.
The guy who actually decided to report some of what was said per NatsJack as if we couldn't guess? The man whose source reported that Jesus Flores was focusing too much on offense and not enough on catching. Same guy who asserts that Bernadina can't be "the Shark" because he doesn't hit like Pujols.
That would be Bill "the Rocket" Ladson.
"The Rocket" is becoming a bit of a Natstown Cryer methinks ... ~laughing~
I just wanted to be sure NatsJack did not get the individuals listed in any sort of hot water with Nats management. I am certain they know all about Bill ...
Wow. I know they want to win. I know we WANT them to win. But it's kind of heart breaking that there is shouting going on. I hope it was all for show.
We lost four games in a row, but the Braves only gained one on us. That isn't horrible.
I hate losing to the Phillies, absolutely. But the bats will pick up again, and things will be good. These guys have had some bad days but they are GOOD PLAYERS. Dunno why there is a lackadaisical attitude these days, but I'm betting that will change in post-hurricane Miami.
GYFNG.
I hope it was all for show.
As I said above (and one of the things I liked best about Mike Rizzo) he positively absolutely hates losing to the Phillies. So, you can imagine he was a bit more emotional given the sweep.
One thing seems certain, Rizzo is going to remember this series and what transpired. Because he wants to have the kind of record against the Phils that the Nats have against the Braves this season.
If asked surely Davey will address it. Let's see if Bill has the courage to ask Davey about it on Tuesday ... ~smiles~
Ladson's "report" on Twitter says Davey "may" have said that to Rizzo...pretty sketchy...I bet every manager says that at some point...
Too late... I think they're all losing their jobs.
Worse than that might be losing any sort of trusted access they might or not have with upper echelon Nats brass in the FO.
it's too bad we still have search for info when this type of thing happens
Local TV would break into programming if Bruce Allen and Shanahan had an argument about yellow pants...
Is it too much to ask for someone to write an actual story? In Boston and NY everything gets covered twice
Nothing was worse than the sweep early in the season to the Dodgers.
Nats needed to reignite the fire. As I said and still believe, horrible timing doing an early morning golf outing on Thursday before the road trip.
Rizzo probably wouldn't have been a bit wiser to wait until the next day to talk to Davey about the game and the series. Both men were probably fairly emotional about the loss. And as a manager Davey is supposed to act as a "buffer" between the players and the FO.
Its not quite like Danny SnidelyOwl leaving Norv Turner waiting in a cold access tunnel for 2 hours before firing him.
Jack, Ladson says Davey was yelling at "someone" then says Davey "never said who he was talking to"...That's a pretty weak effort by a reporter..
Bet Mark Lerner is wearing out some concrete at Nats Park waiting for the bus to get to town.
I was at Bad Citizens on Friday to see the boys. They were flat against Kendrick. Zim just didn't look himelf.
Didn't help that Morse was smacked on his hand and lost for the whole series after his first at-bat. Add to that no Desi.
Ladson also says Bryce threw a temper tantrum "destroying batting helmets in the runway" after being removed in the double switch.
Davey reported this in his post-gamer:
I got the impression it was before the double-switch? ... he was angry about his performances at the plate and he needed Randy Knorr to tell him he was double-switching him out because, according to Davey, he needed to get another batter in before they closed out. Apparently Knorr was afraid to go back there and Davey had to coax him ...
New Post==
Davie did say in his postgame thingy that Bryce threw helments in the runway. He said I don't care if you're Babe Ruth, I needed to double switch there.
I don't know about ladson, but I heard Davey in his press conference say that harper was throwing a fit in the tunnel destroying helmets. Davey: "And I told Randy, 'go on down there and do something with him.'"
Harper has to sit -- and for a good while. Tantrums, agruing with umpires -- again and again -- not to mention he can't hit lefties and his fielding is good, but his decisions on paths to balls and bases to throw are little league.
Please, limit Harper's playing time to lefties -- and Please, Davey and Nat's vets: Chew his out out!!
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