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US Presswire photo The Nationals scored 14 runs and celebrated their ninth win in 10 days. |
And, of course, they've got the best record in the majors at the moment.
Maybe it's time to start using that designation on another aspect of this organization: The Nationals have one of the best lineups in baseball.
That notion would have sounded ludicrous a few months ago, back when four runs was considered an offensive explosion and everyone accepted the idea this team would win on the strength of its pitching staff and only its pitching staff.
Not anymore. Just look at what the Nationals lineup has done lately, not only during last night's 14-2 shellacking of the Giants but over a longer stretch of games.
As a matter of fact, did you know the Nationals have scored 170 runs since the All-Star break, most in the majors? Yes, you read that correctly. The Nationals have scored more times than any other team over the last month, an average of 5.2 runs per game. They've hit a collective .278 during that span while slugging .421.
And what's most impressive is that the production has come from nearly everyone in that lineup.
Sure, Ryan Zimmerman has been on an absolute tear for the last seven weeks. And Michael Morse and Adam LaRoche have been consistent run producers during that time as well.
But there's also Danny Espinosa, hitting .301 with a .496 slugging percentage over his last 30 games. And there's Steve Lombardozzi, who has 11 hits in his last 22 at-bats. And there's Roger Bernadina, hitting a ridiculous .383 since July 21.
The contributions of all those players, plus many more, have allowed the Nationals to overcome Ian Desmond's oblique tear, Bryce Harper's prolonged slump and fairly tepid production from their catchers (that was, until Kurt Suzuki went 3-for-6 with four RBI last night).
Which also makes you wonder just how much more productive this lineup could actually become once Desmond returns from the DL and Harper gets back on track. It could be a frightening proposition for opposing pitchers.
Just consider the lineup the Nationals could field come October, with their current offensive splits (batting average, on-base percentage, slugging percentage) included...
1. Jayson Werth (.308/.406/.459)
2. Bryce Harper (.251/.328/.405)
3. Ryan Zimmerman (.282/.350/.468)
4. Michael Morse (.301/.324/.477)
5. Adam LaRoche (.264/.339/.500)
6. Ian Desmond (.286/.322/.503)
7. Danny Espinosa (.250/.317/.406)
8. Kurt Suzuki (.218/.252/.287)
Look at the depth of that lineup and the power capabilities 1 through 7. Only three other teams in baseball have seven regular position players with slugging percentages over .400: the Yankees, Rangers and Rockies. That's some select company.
Is this a perfect lineup? Not at all. The Nationals strike out too much, they're getting no significant production from their catchers and they don't boast anything resembling a true leadoff hitter.
But they've still got a lineup capable of exploding at any given moment (just ask the Giants). And they've got a lineup that -- as has been the case all season with their pitching staff -- deserves to be praised as one of baseball's best.
120 comments:
Good morning all!
How great to go to bed with a 8-0 lead and find we added two more field goals!
Does anyone here remember a poster talking about the Nationals IMpotent offense just a few weeks ago and how several of us came down hard on one of Swifts "legion of doom"?
This is just one game but it was great to see Suzuki break out. I am imagining that the game thread was just giddy and that Swift Eagle basically had the night off from corralling his legion. Talk probably went to the call ups for next month and who knows what. We are now 7-1 on this road trip, can't play worse than .700 ball on this trip and will return to DC in great shape.
Go Nats!!
"And there's Roger Bernadina, hitting a ridiculous .383 since July 21." Thank you, Mark DeRosa.
The one aspect of this whole thing that strikes me is that this team has not gone through an extensive slump. I think the longest dry stretch was a 5 game losing streak earlier this season. That's been one of the impressive feats of this whole season, and points to the strength of that rotation.
Labor Day: that's when we can start talking about playoff matchups.
That was some serious spankage.
Should we be worried about Morse and Werth? Injuries or August dings?
So, I went back and broke one of my rules about reading in-game threads because who could ever write anything ridiculous during a rout like this?
Well,I did not find F & I, Natsfansince did criticize Tyler Moore's defense in a new position for the first time with a 12 run lead, but the winner and still champion!!!! Our boy Peric.
I love this blog for many reasons, starting with Marks great writing and personality. Right behind that are the able and competent writing of so many insiders. I thought the responses to Peric were thoughtful, not mean spirited at all and hit the point(s) right on. He is repetitive to a fault, insulting, and never admits when he is wrong. He does provide decent knowledge and if you just don't take his insults personally it can be fun watching so many of us in the back & forths. Because the game has so many ups and downs during this long season, he will be able to puff out his little chest with "I told You so" mulitple times, but it's comical.
Swift - I am asking you to send Peric to the minors from your "legion" squad. I think he is more comfortable there in the first place and he can frolic with Rivero, Garcia, Duke - oh wait, LannEn is there, that might be a bit sticky.
alright, back to normal baseball talk.
Go Nats!!
Of all the incidents that occurred during the season, to me the signature event was the cortisone shot to Zim's shoulder. That, and nothing Mark DeRosa ever did, or ever will do, triggered the resurgence of the Nats' offense. Zim is the heart of the offense and everything revolves around his bat. The team has ben dominant ever since that singular event, as I noted at the time.
Thank you, Mr. Rizzo, for signing Jose Izturis, so we do not have to see Mark DeRosa take the field in a Nats uniform so long as a game is in doubt. I would rather see Henry coming in form the BP in a 1-run game than see DeRosa take the field with less than a 5-run lead.
Buster Olney tweeted that "Washington's MAGIC NUMBER ...:40. "the best run differential in the majors and the best record".
(I capitalized MAGIC NUMBER, we have an actual magic number to clinch a playoff spot). I am too giddy for words.
SJM.. I left the in game thread when it was 1-0. Re-read this morning. Did we actually win the game? I am not suprised that we have 1 of the best games of the year and some posters cannot enjoy that and want to ditch the players that got us here.
On that note! WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!! That was a great win!
bluejeener-
I was a Mets fan until the Nats came to town, and 1986 was the season most like this one in my experience. That year the New York newspapers started showing the Mets' magic number every day starting in May. It worked out for them. Olney talking about the Nats' magic number halfway through August almost seems like restraint!
I'm excited as well.
+1/2St.
I posted yesterday that it would be critical to keep Posey in check. One hit- mission accomplished.
Nats hitters to Jordan:
"Here, we got you something. It's the NL ERA lead. Do you like it?"
Jordan to Nats hitters: "Well, thanks, but I guess I had a little something to do with that myself. How about some run support instead?"
Nats hitters: "Okay, here you go. Don't say we never gave you anything."
In other news, I'm loving this whole being on the other end of the spankage thing. And magic numbers? Be still my heart.
Comak had a nice piece on Suzuki and his family. Gee, I wonder whether being uprooted *after* the trade deadline and having just a few days in your new city before a lengthy road trip might have any effect on a player's equilibrium? Nah, why not just go ahead and give the guy a rude nickname, fellas? Oh wait, you already did. Anyway, I'm happy for Kurt that he had a nice night on the hitting side of the dish.
And, I give you, Nats best player (by WAR): Mr. Gio Gonzalez.
every-team-minus-its-best-player
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/daily-notes-every-team-minus-its-best-player/
NatsJack, well said my friend. I also believe in the baseball gods and fate. Last night with 5 infield hits and another 7 that got through the infield defying any logic of BABIP is in the hands of the baseball gods.
Credit to the Nats batters for making contact.
On the other side, Gio shut 'em down.
Another signature win.
Crud. That's what happens when I post before my coffee kicks in. Jordan got the ERA bauble but Gio got the run support. Dang. Oh, well. I'll get 'em next time. :-)
(Hope they saved some for Jordan. :-))
Great post, NatsJack. Your coffee must have kicked in before mine. :-)
NatsJack, to some sports is about looking at the events and predicting what will happen. Those people will be wrong at least half the time, just never in their own minds.
1A.. Thanks for the link to Amanda's article. Give Kurt another few weeks to settle in and I am sure he will be okay.
NatsLady-
Although I really would like Eury Perez or Brian Goodwin to be our answer in center field, that Fangraphs article you cite sure does make me want the Nats to sign Michael Bourn. Damage the Braves and give those 5 victories to us.
+1/2St.
LaRoche didn't get a hit last night but his bases loaded walk while working that 2 strike count was the turning point.
Vogelsong just completely collapsed after that.
Loved the LaRoche quote in Kilgore's gamer. I suppose it was delivered in his trademark deadpan style. :-)
"If Gio and I weren't in there, we'd still be in the third inning," LaRoche said jokingly afterward.
NatsFanSinceStart said...
Nats are 17-4 without Desmond. Who would have guessed that?
Ian Desmond = Joey Votto.
I thought the turning point was Vog not getting the call on the close pitch to Lombo. He never recovered from that.
Link to FP's MASN interview with the pitchers' home run club, as mentioned by Michele in the game thread.
pRAA, there is a stat called the Neifi Index that's supposed to measure how a team does with/without players.
Votto and Desi wouldn't look great in that stat and it defies logic.
It's one reason I question why they would allow Desi to come back so quickly. Davey did say he has a plan for Desi that he's not sharing the details of.
I am king of hoping they wait until September first. It's only 17 days and he will have to do some ramping up. Some September call up, huh? Ian Desmond. Nice injection of energy into the team just when they mighty need it. I hope he returns as ready as Jayson was.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
pRAA, there is a stat called the Neifi Index that's supposed to measure how a team does with/without players.
Votto and Desi wouldn't look great in that stat and it defies logic.
There's a stat called the W-L record that tells exactly how teams do without certain players. The Reds went on a tear as soon as Votto went down, the Nats went on a tear as soon as Desmond went down. You arguing that?
The other night I proposed here my own nickname for the team, a unique moniker for this astounding Nats team, knowing we can't use the term "Amazin' ". I got one other person to like it, only one (and his wife). I'm not on a campaign, but now I see Kilgore in the WaPost used the term juggernaut to describe this team, so I can't resist mentioning it again.
Maybe my nickname of the other night still has an outside chance, maybe, to catch on with a couple of others.
Go JuggerNats!!
SJM308,
I wish I could agree with you about Peric. But I can't. He is quite often wrong and very much like a spoliled, and petulant teenager when he gets caught.
pRAA, the Nats were near .600 when Desi went down. It isn't like a .450 team that went 17-4.
Also not like Votto is Wally Pipp.
NatsJack, exactly. The stats are what they are. Have to like Mark's projected October lineup.
Michael Schmidt @md_schmidt
Happy "Welcome to Pro Ball Day" Lucas Giolito. Game time for his GCL debut is high noon ET. #Nats
NatsJack in Florida said...
pRAA... it sounds to me like Ghost supports your comment.
I'm up for the Mets series this weekend and would like to meet up if you are going to either Fridays or Saturdays game.
August 14, 2012 8:37 AM
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Agreed. Ian Desmond (.286/.322/.503). Who wouldn't want Desi or Votto in their lineup. The Nats were in 1st place when Desi went down and are still in 1st place.
Many stat-heads assert that the best single stat to judge the strength of a team, over the long run, is run differential. It's why many expect the O's to collapse (they are in the wild card race, yet have a negative differential), and why many thought the Nats of 2005, despite leading, would collapse (again, a negative (or close to it) differential).
I don't know if it's the single most important stat or not, but it's a pretty important one.
So, the following sentence from AK this morning was music to my ears:
The Nationals have now outscored opponents by 108 runs this season, the best run differential in the majors.
(emphasis is mine)
pRAA
The Reds went on a tear as soon as Votto went down, the Nats went on a tear as soon as Desmond went down. You arguing that?
No, he wasn't. Ghost said it "defies logic". And it does. Votto is clearly one of the best players in the league.
In other exciting Nats' minor league news, the Nationals Prospect blog just reported that Rendon has been promoted to Harrisburg. No doubt he and Goodwin will have made their MLB debuts by this time next year. The rich just keep on getting richer.
+1/2 Street . . . I, too, was a Mets fan (from almost the start) until 2005 when the Nats came to town.
This 2012 Nats team _had_ reminded me of the 1969 Mets (all pitching, little hitting). Then, after some hitting came around with a ton of youngsters (and the pitching was still great), it started reminded me of the 1984-85 Mets.
The 1986 Mets? I dunno. Yesterday sure reminded me of them. But, the 1986 Mets won 108 games during the regular season (.667).
Those Mets had a great manager. He was smart, but a bit green. He knew a lot, but he's learned even more since then. He's the guy I want with a real young team. (Actually, he'd be the guy I'd want with an experienced team, too).
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
pRAA, the Nats were near .600 when Desi went down. It isn't like a .450 team that went 17-4.
Also not like Votto is Wally Pipp.
August 14, 2012 8:43 AM
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I just Google'd Wally Pipp. I have to remember that name to quote for the future!
karlkolchak said...
In other exciting Nats' minor league news, the Nationals Prospect blog just reported that Rendon has been promoted to Harrisburg. No doubt he and Goodwin will have made their MLB debuts by this time next year. The rich just keep on getting richer.
August 14, 2012 8:59 AM
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That is tremendous and great news. Once Rendon gets on a run there, he could follow Zim's path to the Majors.
A DC Wonk said...
Many stat-heads assert that the best single stat to judge the strength of a team, over the long run, is run differential. It's why many expect the O's to collapse (they are in the wild card race, yet have a negative differential), and why many thought the Nats of 2005, despite leading, would collapse (again, a negative (or close to it) differential).
I don't know if it's the single most important stat or not, but it's a pretty important one.
So, the following sentence from AK this morning was music to my ears:
The Nationals have now outscored opponents by 108 runs this season, the best run differential in the majors.
(emphasis is mine)
August 14, 2012 8:52 AM
__________________________________
Thanks for the stats. I wasn't aware of that and its welcome news.
As Mark said since the All Star break, the Nats are #1 in runs scored. Couple that with the stealth Ace pitching, and its the winning formula.
I didn't have to Google Wally Pipp. :-)
Get your voting fingers limbered up, if you're so inclined. There's a Roger-Rajai match-up.
Juggernats is good.
Uncle Adam's quote is a droll classic.
Kilgore also has a Werth quote that may be truly significant regarding the success of this team: “It’s the time of year where good teams start to mesh, and the daily grind of spending 10 hours a day together is either wearing on you or it’s making you become a good team. Luckily for us, we’ve got a bunch of good guys and a bunch of guys who come every day, put on their spikes and go out there and play hard. The rest of the stuff takes care of itself. Just keep doing what we’re doing.”
Thank you, Mr. Rizzo (and I suspect Davey helped) for considering character and chemistry as well as statistics in putting this team together.
Kilgore likes "Juggernats," as he was using it last summer. I'm on the fence myself; not that it matters. If you like it, use it; if not, don't. :-)
I stayed up for the whole game, and for Davey's post game interview. He was asked about Zim tagging up when the Nats had such a big lead. His answer was that he expected his club to play competitively regardless of the score. Anything less was a "loser's mentality." That brings me to a point I want express.
I want to apologize to the other posters, Mark, and yes, even peric,for getting so argumentative on the game thread last night. I hate it when the petty crap gets going on this blog, and am irratated with myself for getting sucked in to doing it.
Like most of us, I am passionate about the Nationals. After getting a team back, I consider signing three people to be most responsible for what's happening right now, and for the following reasons: #1 being Mike Rizzo, for assembling this team and it's staff.#2 Davey Johnson for just being the perfect guy to manage this mixed group of veterans and youngsters. # 3 Jayson Werth for bringing an attitude of winning to this club, not to mention the statement his signing made to the rest of the league. Is he the best hitter? No. Is he the best outfielder? No.Heck, peric, I know Werth isn't Willie Mays out there. But he is a still a very good player that is a leader on this team, has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to losing. I think that the Phillies really miss his leadership, both on the field, and in the clubhouse.
Unlike some people, I believe that chemistry is often a very important part of a winning baseball team, and as such, Jayson is a huge component of this team's chemistry.So, I got passionate about defending Werth last night. I apologize for letting my passion get personal.I may disagree with someone, but I will respect their right to have a differing opinion. Unless, of course, it's a troll just being a butthead.
GYFNG!
Did anyone notice Bryce brought some DBacks lumber with him from Arizona?
Bryce wasn't swinging Chad Tracy's bat anymore as he was swinging Justin Upton's Batman bat. I googled it and the manufacturer is SAM Bat Co.
strange stat of the day:
Last night, the Chi White Sox struck out 16 times (in 11 inn). Adam Dunn was not one of them.
In fact, Dunn went 3-for-5, with 2 HR, to raise his BA to .208. Despite his hitting 2 HR, the Sox lost 3-2.
So, Kilgore was using JuggerNats last year? I guess there is very little new under the sun (except the "clown question, bro" answer).
Last year, though, JuggerNats would have seemed inappropriate to me. Even earlier this year. But now, that's a different kettle of fish, a horse of a different color, you get the drift.
So for me, at least, even if it's been used before, Go JuggerNats!
NatsLady, I read that fangraphs article yesterday. If I am reading it right, Nats will have the best record in majors without Gio. that says a lot about nationals and also indirectly about Strasburg shutdown. If his shutdown does not affect team's morale, it should not affect their winning habits either.
Nice post, Joe S. Many of us have been sucked in at one time or another, so no worries there. Agreed on what Werth's brought to this team.
Wasn't it Matt Cain who proclaimed earlier in the season that it was the Giants (implying NOT the Nats, who were getting all the buzz) that had the best staff in baseball?
Harrumph! They are good, but is there anyone on their staff we have not hit well? Just seems to me that head-to-head, our boys outshine them.
Just win tonight, which means another series win, and let the Barves lose again. Man, their clubhouse must need a makeover, with all the holes punched in the walls by now!
Unless you're the Yanks, and you just go out and buy a player, it takes a while to put a young team together.
I think that most of us saw the success of this team starting to appear late last year.
My favorite hit last night? Espi's 2 run HR to the deepest part of the park, on a breaking pitch, just off the outside of the plate---hitting LH!
GooooooooooooooEspi!!!GoooooooooooooNats!!
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
Did anyone notice Bryce brought some DBacks lumber with him from Arizona?
Bryce wasn't swinging Chad Tracy's bat anymore as he was swinging Justin Upton's Batman bat. I googled it and the manufacturer is SAM Bat Co.
August 14, 2012 9:17 AM
______________________________
I read on Twitter several weeks ago that Bryce stopped using his signature Marruci bat and is borrowing bats to find one to get him out of his funk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPVHYtT4Uw
Yes, I think I take your point, Nattering. It's a pretty "nat"ural pun from a syllabic standpoint, so not surprising that it's been used before, I'd say. Your moniker is more original, imo. :-)
Nattering Nat said...
So, Kilgore was using JuggerNats last year? I guess there is very little new under the sun (except the "clown question, bro" answer).
Last year, though, JuggerNats would have seemed inappropriate to me. Even earlier this year. But now, that's a different kettle of fish, a horse of a different color, you get the drift.
So for me, at least, even if it's been used before, Go JuggerNats!
August 14, 2012 9:28 AM
hmmm, that may not have come out right. No offense intended.
Being a baseball fan means being giddy for approximately the next 12 or so hours. Then there is another game that has to be played. Crazy roller coaster ride we are on. By the way - mlbtv is reporting a "rumor" that Strasburg might not pitch in the post season. Oh, no. Did you hear that? Could it possibly be true? Sheesh. I noticed that he did not pitch or hit last night and,gee, the Nats won anyway. I can't wait to get home today and watch the game on my dvr. Since I won't be able to stay up, it will be just like there is a real game going on. I know, pathetic. That third inning must have been pretty long. Did Gio make 2 outs in that inning?
Gonat, good video.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_/league/nl/order/false
The Nats on this road trip have now beat up 2 of the top ERA pitchers in Vogelsong and Wade Miley.
FS--the Nats w/o Gio would have the best NL record except for the Reds. If you take away the Reds' best player (Votto), the Nats would have the best record.
The Nats' best position player by WAR is Ian Desmond.
swami, yes. Gio struck out twice. LaRoche quipped, "If it weren't for Gio and me we would still be playing the 3rd inning."
Greetings from Devils Tower friends. I has mixed feelings about the Nats losing Sunday in AZ. I want them to win every game, but if they were undefeated through my vacation, I couldn't come home.
The attraction my red Nats hat gets continues to amaze me. I meet Nats fans along the road (a guy from Annapolis at the Cody Nite Rodeo). More interesting has been responses from other folks. A couple of folks saw my hat and said "Now you jump on the bandwagon!" (Reply: I'm a season ticket holder since day one. I've earned the right to enjoy this.) A Yankees fan in Yellowstone asked me "Are the Nats are really this good?" (Reply: I hope to see you in October to find out.) It is so cool to be out here in a veritable nowhere and have our baseball team be a regular subject of conversation with total strangers.
You guys keep it up on your end and I'll keep spreading the faith until I see you on South Capitol Street soon.
Doc, yep. Espy has real power from the left side (if I recall, most of his HRs last year were hitting LH), just has not been able to hit for average.
NatsLady, what I meant to say that if all teams are missing their best player, Nats would still have the best record.
but I understand what you are saying which makes more sense considering that we will be without SS soon and Reds will have Votto back soon. Then again our Desi will be back soon too. anyways that was an interesting article. wish someone could do the same analysis for Nats without SS.
NatsLady, correct on HRs but more XBH/AB from right side than left side last season. However, that may be a function of how many AB he had from right side (127 vs 443). then again this season with same number of at bats, danny has produced two more XBH from right side, 17. having similar problem this season, overall his average from L is about same as last season and average from R is about same as last season. But I think his average from L side has gone up a little bit over last 30 or so days.
just eyeballing his numbers, I think danny might be better off becoming a doubles hitter than HR hitter.
Yep, Rendon is on the 40 man. Could happen. Best man to give RZim a day off.
Saw Rendon Sunday afternoon. Fanned twice looking and after the second one he slammed his bat down and said something to the ump. He got tossed.
First thing about him. He is very small physically. I knew he wasn't that big but.... Also, his demeanor is one of nonchalance, almost not caring. But since I don't know him personally, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and call him nonchalant. I hope they play him everyday at 3B in Potomac the rest of the year and see what he does. Then to the Arizona League. By then, we should have a pretty good idea on him
NatsJack in Florida said...
Word is Rendon is moving up to Harrisburg. This would be his final stop to see if he actually is worthy of a September call up. The next 16 days will tell.
Rizzo is pretty strict with his policy that players must perform at every level of the minors before meriting a spot on the major league roster. He followed it with Strasburg, he followed it with Harper. Indeed, is there any time that a player has gone straight from AA to the Nats, skipping AAA - even in September? Combine that with the fact that a September pennant race is not the time when you "reward" deserving minor leaguers, or "see what you've got", and it looks highly unlikely that you'll see Rendon in September. Give RZim a day off? You've got Tracy, Izturis, even DeRosa if he comes off the DL for that. Some of those guys will need to be kept fresh for October baseball. Rendon's development can wait.
Wasn't it Matt Cain who proclaimed earlier in the season that it was the Giants (implying NOT the Nats, who were getting all the buzz) that had the best staff in baseball?
The thing about the Giants, is that I think they're great ERA is a result of playing 1/2 of their games at home. I think (not including last night) their team ERA was below 3 at home, and well over 4 on the road.
By some measures (see, e.g., SRS on the home page of baseball-reference), the Giants are just an "average" team with an easy schedule. They rate the Nats the best team, with Atlanta and Reds tied for next best in the NL.
side note: just one vote from me for Bernie this time. I think Davis' catch is better and should win.
"Did anyone notice Bryce brought some DBacks lumber with him from Arizona?"
I didn't, but that's interesting. Players in slumps often change bats. Sometimes it works (Bernie) and sometimes it does not (I vaguely recall Danny changing bats early this season). A couple of years ago, when Adam Dunn was still with the team, Zim decided, on his own, to start using Adam's bigger, heavier bat.
When Zim was having trouble getting around on the FB earlier this year, one of the commenters on this blog suggested he switch to a lighter bat. Let me see, who was that guy? Oh, yeah, it was yours truly. You can look it up.
Since Harp seems to have regained his oppo field touch, maybe we should all give the credit to Upton. Actually, Harp deserves all the credit for his performance on the field, just as the Shark deserves all the credit for his performance since switching to a lighter bat.
Guys having problems at the plate often change bats. It's a common place. Good to know Harp is not content to stand pat. More credit to him for working his way back to his early season oppo form, and for trying whatever it takes that might get him there.
wish someone could do the same analysis for Nats without SS.
The Nats are 16-7 in games that Strasburg has started. Which makes them 56-37 (.602) in games he hasn't started. Apply that .602 winning percentage to the 116 games they've played to date, and their record would be 70-46 instead of 72-44. That would still be the best record in baseball right now. What more do you need to know?
pRAA, Rendon isn't a given. Could still come up in September and be in AAA to start 2013.
He is also trade bait.
"Word is Rendon is moving up to Harrisburg."
Wow. He just got to Potomac. They must be getting him ready for a September call-up.
"Saw Rendon Sunday afternoon. Fanned twice looking and after the second one he slammed his bat down and said something to the ump. He got tossed."
I did not see that game, but Rendon has a better eye for strikes and balls than almost any umpire. My guess is that the same umpire called him out, twice, on pitches that were both out of the zone, and Rendon let him know about it.
"Combine that with the fact that a September pennant race is not the time when you "reward" deserving minor leaguers, or "see what you've got", and it looks highly unlikely that you'll see Rendon in September."
They are not "rewarding" him for his performance, since he has not performed for all that long. They are fast-tracking him to the bigs because he is the most talented RH bat they've got in the MiL, and would be one of the best RH bats on the ML team, once he gets there, and he hits with power from the right side that is missing from Davey's bench, except for TyMo.
Yeah, he is small, but so was Hank Aaron. Aaron was even a little smaller than Rendon. I once saw Aaron hit one over the CF fence for a grand slam in the old Polo Grounds against the Mets. For anyone who does not know, the CF fence in the Polo Grounds was 460' from home plate. Hank must have hit that one about 470' to 475'. Both Rendon and Aaron hit with the same technique to generate that kind of power from a relatively small frame.
Don't underestimate Rendon, just because he is small. Danny is not that big, either, but we know how much power he can generate.
Bringing Rendon up for a couple of pinch hit ABs in September is not going to affect his trade value. Unless they've clinched, he's not getting a start. You guys need to realize that this September is different. No players will be brought up who aren't needed to help the team keep winning. That means it will be Lannan, perhaps a bat off the bench, perhaps a reliever, perhaps a third catcher. Priority for those slots will go to guys who have already been up this year, i.e. Brown, Solano/Leon. No room at the inn for the likes of Rendon. That's why they have the AFL.
Laddie, good insight from you. I find it fascinating on the tools of the trade.
Many times its mind over matter.
Our old friend Willie Harris when he was with the Braves went 6 for 6 swinging a replica bat. Had 2 triples in that game.
pRAA, all your points are valid but Davey likes a full bench in September. Rendon will have to earn it to get the callup and I'm sure Rizzo has already told him that which is why the promotion happened so suddenly. He's already on the 40 man roster so there really isn't anything in his way except "earning" the callup.
Laddie Blah Blah said...
Don't underestimate Rendon, just because he is small. Danny is not that big, either, but we know how much power he can generate.
August 14, 2012 10:51 AM
I was surprised how small Rendon was in person and the comparison to Espinosa is about right. Also, the double ear flap large batting helmet photos in Minor League ball seems to always make a guy like him look smaller.
Rendon, Lombo, Espi are all under 5'11 1/2" no matter what the reference books say. Lombo is the tallest of the 3 I would say.
It doesn't matter all that much at the plate. Now that steroids have been eradicated the playing field once again allows natural talent to excel.
I wrote over Spring Training about Rendon. Amazing ability to get the low pitches with the meat of the barrel on the ball with great bat speed and he was doing that in rehab.
The only impediment as I see it for Rendon is staying healthy.
The comment I didn't make was the first two strikes in his second AB were fastballs that were knocking the bat out of his hands. Guy named Johnson from Winston Salem. Rendon weakly flared both over the first base dugout before the called third strike
".....he has a better eye for balls and strikes that almost any umpire." Well hell, I didn't know that. We need to move him to the big leagues asap.
Rendon was slated to play High 'A' and 'AA' this year. Since coming back from the injury he has hit at every level (BigCat's game not withstanding) so it's a good opportunity to see him at the next level for a couple of weeks.
The jump from A to AA is significant; look at the difference in Goodwin's numbers at these levels. Both of these players are likely to do a AA and AAA next year getting them ready for the show.
I think Rendon's only opportunity to be a long term Nat is if Zim moves to 1st base and I don't think that's a slam dunk at all so ghost may be right about the likelihood of a trade down the line.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
pRAA, all your points are valid but Davey likes a full bench in September.
The bench is pretty full now. Add Desmond and possibly DeRosa back from the DL along with Brown and Leon/Solano called up and it's way more than full.
Rendon will have to earn it to get the callup and I'm sure Rizzo has already told him that which is why the promotion happened so suddenly.
No, the promotion happened so that he can get enough time in AA before it shuts down Sept 1 to make sure he's ready for the AFL.
JD said...
I think Rendon's only opportunity to be a long term Nat is if Zim moves to 1st base and I don't think that's a slam dunk at all so ghost may be right about the likelihood of a trade down the line.
August 14, 2012 11:23 AM
The Nats are going to make a run at King Felix in a trade. You can count on it. It may work or it may not. This isn't the same team that Greinke turned down 2 years ago. Players now want to come here.
Rendon could be a central part of that trade or another or may be a central part of the continual youth movement for the Nats future.
Look how quickly Ryan Zimmerman made it through the system in 2005. Rendon 2 years ago was projected as a better prospect and was compared to Zimmerman. Injuries were Rendon's issue. He's done fairly well in his limited play.
There really is no risk moving Rendon up to AA at this point. Once he gets acclamated to the better pitching he should rake. Just a short amount of time to prove himself for this year as AA season has a little over 2 weeks left.
I think Rendon's only opportunity to be a long term Nat is if Zim moves to 1st base and I don't think that's a slam dunk at all so ghost may be right about the likelihood of a trade down the line.
That isn't going to happen and you might as well get used to Zim playing first base.
1. Zim's injuries over the last three years have precluded having him in the lineup far too often. This is far more egregious than any concerns about Rendon's injuries both from a baseball and financial perspective.
2. A return on Rendon in a trade will never equal the financial investment and what he is capable of providing on the field. You aren't going to get the number of prospects Billy Beane got for Gio Gonzalez for Rendon not unless he is in the majors and even then ...
3. Its very possible that Rendon not Zimmerman will be the better third bagger. And Rendon is younger.
Get used to it. Zim is moving to first base. Espinosa and Desmond are staying right where they are. With those pieces in place Rizzo has the most athletic, best fielding infield in the majors bar none.
pRAA with the ISO said...
No, the promotion happened so that he can get enough time in AA before it shuts down Sept 1 to make sure he's ready for the AFL.
There are actually many players that play in the AFL directly from A ball.
Again, your opinions are fine but don't shoot down others like you know 100%.
Yesterday when Peric suggested Rendon could be a call-up I practically laughed to myself. Today its not as far fetched if he performs well in Harrisburg.
"The only impediment as I see it for Rendon is staying healthy."
Ditto that. Went to Luke Ericson's site and read his write-up on Rendon. Although Anthony only played 4 games for Potomac, Luke is already a believer, as well, and he has seen them all come through there, for many years.
He thinks Skole will finally be promoted to Potomac after the Rendon re-assignment is official. Skole is a guy I would go down there to see, for myself.
The Nats are going to make a run at King Felix in a trade. You can count on it.
And they say I'M fixated on things? Ghost forget it. You would need a healthy Purke and Solis along with Meyer to make that happen. I don't think you do it given Meyer's performance so far. Throw in newly discovered starter Ryan Perry, Nate Karns, and Danny Rosenbaum.
The Nats would not get better value from King Felix. The top three in their rotation is set with Strasburg, JZimm, and Gonzalez. They are team controllable over the long-term and very inexpensive. King Felix would cost in terms of high level prospects AND money. Just not worth it dude.
Again, your opinions are fine but don't shoot down others like you know 100%.
Ah, I see. It's okay for you to do that, but not for anyone else. Looks like peric's not the only one who really is one.
Peric, the team made a huge 7 figure investment in AJ Cole and he was traded. Rendon's value goes up substantially if he performs well in limited time in AA.
I remember a similar discussion on rationalizing Corey Brown who had an end of the year promotion within the A's Minor Leagues back to AAA and did real well.
As NatsJack says, don't underestimate Rizzo.
JoeS -- Your apology was gracious but not necessary. With the Nats firing on all cylinders last night, it was a good time to vent about peric's attitude. And your comments were nowhere near as personal or offensive as his are. I had been on a peric moratorium for awhile, but couldn't restrain myself last night. And I'll admit it felt good. Back on the wagon today.
I'm looking forward to seeing Rizzo/Davey's approach to the September callups. I expect it will be all about filling out the bench and the bullpen for a major push to win the East and have the best record in the NL. But as long as the callups know their role (or lack of it), I don't see the harm in letting a few who might not be used much (e.g., Rendon) experience the clubhouse and a pennant race. I am sure that there are things to be learned from sitting on the bench next to DeRosa (another guy who won't play much if at all) in this atmosphere. Plus, if we clinch early, a big league start or two will be exciting and worthwhile.
But let's be clear. Just because Maya is called up, to return to a bone I've picked with peric too many times, doesn't mean he's going to see the mound in any role other than mopup.
Who is, and when did the Nats get, Jose Izturis?
I was going to say I liked "Serious spankage," but decided it might be mistaken for TMI.
Still don't like "Juggernats." How about Stormageddon, Masters of Spankage?
Peric, Rizzo will make his run at King Felix. Probably less than 25% chance he gets him as some teams with fatter farm systems may give up more and have a player Seattle covets more.
Rizzo went all in for Gio and got him.
King Felix will be the talk of this year's Winter Meetings. I don't hold out great hope the Nats would snag him but you never know!
I like it. Er, the term. :-)
Masters of Spankage
Still don't like "Juggernats." How about Stormageddon, Masters of Spankage?
Juggernats is lame, but not lame enough to be ironic. I suggest "Jayson and the ArgoNats."
Comment on Bochy's ejection from the website that tracks these things. You can look at the play from all angles.
1B Umpire Jerry Layne ejected Giants Manager Bruce Bochy for arguing a safe call in the top of the 3rd inning of the Nationals-Giants game. With one out and three on, Nationals batter Roger Bernadina hit a 0-1 curveball from Giants pitcher Ryan Vogelsong back to the mound, deflected by Vogelsong and then fielded by second baseman Ryan Theriot, who threw to first baseman Brandon Belt. Replays indicate that Belt caught the ball with his foot on the bag prior to Bernadina touching first base, the call was incorrect. At the time of the ejection, the Nationals were leading, 5-0.
http://www.closecallsports.com/
Well thats the thing Laddie. This Skole guy is out of Ga Tech. Is 23 years old. He hit 290 last year at Auburn and this year has hit .290 with 27 homers and 90 ribbies at Hagerstown. I think he has earned the promotion to AA, not Rendon. Rendon has played about 8 games at Potomac, he hasn't earned anything. Let Rendon ride down to Kinston a couple times.....or beautiful Salem
And let's compare Ryan Zimmerman with Adam LaRoche at first base. Who is younger and more athletic? Who would be the better fielder? Who is the better hitter when healthy? We all know the answer to that.
The real problem is the dearth of left-handed hitting ... and Espinosa is still kind of weak in that category but I expect he'll improve as he matures and develops.
So, you have to look to the outfield where Mark lists Jayson Werth as lead-off hitter? Why, because he is likely going to be a glorified singles hitter and you have to wonder if he is aging well. He seems to now have a real aversion to making attempts to go back the wall after his most recent serious wrist injury to the same wrist that almost cost him his career. This is not a guy you can rely on for anything ... thus Ladson's sudden pronouncement about the Nats looking for CF lead-off in the offseason. He's NOT working.
The really important guy in that regard was and still is first rounder and top prospect Brian Goodwin who has been struggling in AA. If Rendon comes up and rapidly masters AA that's not going to make Goodwin look good. If Goodwin doesn't play well in the AFL (and we have to know he is going) then what?
Its Corey Brown in Syracuse who is now batting 3rd but still playing CF because he may be the best fielding CF in the organization from the majors to the minors while Eury Perez plays in LF and leads off. There's Jeff Kobernus and Rick Hague who have both in actuality had even more serious injury issues than has had Anthony Rendon. Destin Hood was completely overwhelmed by AA.
Rizzo went all in for Gio and got him.
Compare Gio's cost (and he was not even close to the same level pitcher that King Felix is!!! And Gonzalez is still young and fairly inexpensive!
The only way that happens Ghost, is if King Felix were a free agent then yes you'd be right ... Rizzo would work hard to get him. Its why he may make a run at Grienke instead because Grienke won't cost him draft picks, and won't cost him prospects ... just money.
I like it. Er, the term. :-)
Masters of Spankage
I'll send you their photos!
"The bench is pretty full now. Add Desmond and possibly DeRosa back from the DL along with Brown and Leon/Solano called up and it's way more than full."
Ask Davey that, and if DeRosa is so special, why did they sign over-the-hill journeyman Cesar Izturis and put DeRo on the DL? Desmond will not be a bench player, Lombo will, and Izturis probably goes, maybe to the minors.
DeRo has contributed virtually nothing to the offense or defense all year. Both Ankiel and Nady contributed far more, and they are gone. At most, DeRo has been an assistant batting coach. Does that mean they should put him on the field, in crunch time? McCatty has been a great pitching coach. Does that mean they should use him as a closer down the stretch? Equally idiotic suggestions, IMO.
Brown is a LH bat, and neither Leon nor Solano brings Rendon's power to the plate from the right side. Even with all the other call-ups, my guess is Davey wants another RH power hitter on the bench for the stretch run. Rendon is the best option. Of course, if he flops in AA, then maybe they call up someone else, instead.
"No, the promotion happened so that he can get enough time in AA before it shuts down Sept 1 to make sure he's ready for the AFL."
Since when does a guy have to play in AA to go to the AFL? Just as reasonable is the notion that he is being prepped for a September call-up. Some guys are just fast-tracked. How long did SS play in the minors before being called up, for good? Two months? That's about what Rendon will have by September 1. It's not as if he will be expected to play every day, just be available for RH PH duties when Davey needs a guy from the right side, if he has already burned TyMo.
It does not cost the Nats anything to have the kid ready and available in the stretch run, and he gets a taste of the bigs, gets to show his stuff to management and the fans, says howdy to the varsity, and gets to deliver a timely hit, or two, maybe against the Braves.
If the Nats get way out ahead, like last night, Davey rests Zim and sends in Rendon so he can see what the kid can do on D. He already knows what Tracy can do, so why waste time on that?
You don't want to google that at work.
Natsjack - will be looking forward to seeing you this Saturday!
Seamhead - no apologies necessary, I have seen you in action silencing those Phillie fans and there is not a doubt at all about your passion. We agree about Werth in all his different contributions as well.
I have Lyle Lovett tonight but will be rushing to the parking lot to catch the remainder of the Nationals game. Hoping my ride home is an enjoyable one.
Go Nats!!
hmmm, interesting. Might generate some comments on fleecing, though. :-)
I suggest "Jayson and the ArgoNats."
BigCat said...
Well thats the thing Laddie. This Skole guy is out of Ga Tech. Is 23 years old. He hit 290 last year at Auburn and this year has hit .290 with 27 homers and 90 ribbies at Hagerstown. I think he has earned the promotion to AA, not Rendon. Rendon has played about 8 games at Potomac, he hasn't earned anything. Let Rendon ride down to Kinston a couple times.....or beautiful Salem
August 14, 2012 11:52 AM
Skole's 1 promotion up is from Hagerstown to Potomac. Should have happened after the SAL All Star game.
Maybe it happens now that Rendon got promoted.
Rendon is still going to the AFL and that's why Rizzo feels he can "rush him through the system" without leaving anything behind. The AFL exposure in his mind, might make up for the loss of most of this season to injury.
Welcome to first base Mr. Zimmerman.
I do hope they don't plan on keeping Skole at third base in Potomac.
Laddie at 12:00PM, you can't hear me but I am applauding you. All well said.
If anyone doesn't already know it, Davey gets his way most of the time. Last year was a change in September protocol where Davey brought up several players. Davey is very good at using specialty players at key times and talked about last year how he loves an overstaffed bullpen.
I am sure he can't wait to have Eury Perez as a designated runner or pinch bunter off the bench or utilize his bullpen more situationally because he has a deeper pen or uses 2 RH pinch hitters in 1 inning.
I like the Goofballs for a nickname after watching that interview from last night.
As for the roster moves, I will enjoy watching the boys wearing a Washington Nationals uni's.
Big Cat
"Rendon has played about 8 games at Potomac, he hasn't earned anything."
Actually, I think he has only played 4 games there. No, he hasn't "earned" anything, he is just being fast-tracked because he is so talented. Skole is 23, but so is Rendon, and Anthony has more talent and a much better overall resume. He has plus tools as a defensive 3rd basemen, while Skole is a butcher in the field. And Skole has not even played in high A ball yet.
I keep waiting and wondering how the Nats will handle Skole and his LH power bat. He is big enough to play first base, but they have not made a move to convert him to a first baseman, as yet. Until he demonstrates some defensive prowess at some position, Skole will be a bench player as long as Rizzo is building the Nats around a foundation of pitching and defense. Or maybe Rizzo is waiting for the opportunity to trade him, since he is loaded at 3rd base with Zim and Rendon.
"As NatsJack says, don't underestimate Rizzo."
Amen to that.
Personally, I don't think Zim moves to 1st base in 2013. Earliest would be 2014 in my opinion and still too many factors to consider if it happens even then.
-NEW POST-
A few years ago they were the Nats of the Living Dead.
"Nats of Columbus, District of" doesn't really work, but the uniforms would be fabulous. Like Nats in White Satin.
I heard/read that the nationals told Skole that he wasn't getting promoted this year. They are not promoting/did not promote him earlier not because he cannot hit, but because of his lousy defense at third base. In addition is that the potomac infield is crowded with guys who also need to play every day in Rick Hague, Blake Kelso, Martison and Adrian Sanchez. And neither of these guys deserve a promotion so there is no space for Skole yet.
See also Nats in White Satin Armor. ("Oh!" in best approximation of Sopranos voice.) :-)
Zection 3, My Zofa said...
A few years ago they were the Nats of the Living Dead.
"Nats of Columbus, District of" doesn't really work, but the uniforms would be fabulous. Like Nats in White Satin.
Peric,
The problem with your theory is that there is a lineup of players ready to play 1st base including: Morse and Moore. So if you believe that Brown/Perez/Goodwin will make their way into the lineup in short order where exactly are you playing Morse and Moore?
Seattle traded Cliff Lee to Texas for Justin Smoak? Are you 100% sure that next July 31st the Nats won't be in position to convert Rendon into the 1 pitcher that takes them back to the playoffs? I'm not.
Clearly I'm in the wrong league, if Masters of Spankage and Jason and the Argonats rule this universe, whether ironically or otherwise. But it's a nice diversion.
In all seriousness, it does surprise me that with this club, given all of its surprising early, splendiferous success, no grass roots nickname has emerged (yet). It is one of the most amazing seasons ever in DC, and we've got the corporate marketing "Natitude" and not much else. We don't have "ya gotta believe" or anything like that. And we should! The season and the team deserve it.
What better place to come up with a fitting slogan than here?
It doesn't even have to be a slogan. You saw how FP has tried to get folks interested in the "rally napkin", that kind of thing. You can argue it should happen naturally, but I think in this town it has been so long since there has been a winning season other than with the Caps, folks have just forgotten how to do it.
I'm convinced some on this forum will be complaining about the traffic on the way home from the parade. That's their right but I do feel sorry for them.
We're getting there, NN. Baby steps. :-)
pRAA with the ISO said...
Indeed, is there any time that a player has gone straight from AA to the Nats, skipping AAA - even in September?
-------------------------------
There is at least one -- Ryan Zimmerman played 4 games with Savannah (A) and 63 games with Harrisburg (AA) before being called up in September 2005. Of course, that was before Mike Rizzo's time.
Just for the record: I am one of those critical of our hitting earlier in the year. It was quite worthy of being critical, as they took way too many fast balls over the middle of the plate and swung at too many balls. Since the all star break the number of fast balls over the middle not swung at has reduced, and the number of strike outs on bad pitches is way down, so the areas I thought hoolding them back seem to be not there now. If they return I will be back on the kick. If stays away I will be pleased.
We will definitely see Rendon up in September. His hand/eye/bat is too good for Davey to resist. He'll PH and take over for Zim if there are any blowouts. He will be new to the league's pitchers so in the short run, given his particular talents, they will have to figure him out more than he will have to figure them out. The amount he will absorb in terms of knowledge and advice and just hands on experience on the field and in the dugout will be immeasurable. If any of you with kids have ever had your child play with its slightly older cousins over a vacation etc--that's what I'm talking about--the growth will be stunning to see.
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