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Associated Press photo Chien-Ming Wang tumbles after racing to beat the Yankees' Russell Martin to first base. |
Wang's injury was initially announced as a left hamstring strain, but the veteran hurler underwent more tests (including an MRI) later, the results of which should be revealed this morning.
Members of the Nationals organization are holding out hope the injury is not serious but are prepared to be told Wang will miss considerable time after hurting himself in freakish fashion.
Wang was cruising along in his second Grapefruit League start of the spring, striking out four of the first 10 batters he faced, when Martin tapped a slow roller between the mound and first base. Wang scooped up the ball and then continued running toward the bag, attempting to complete the unassisted groundout, but he appeared to trip near the dirt-grass cutout near the base.
Wang tried to keep his balance but in doing so may have gotten the spikes on his left shoe caught in the dirt, hyper-extending his knee in the process. He tumbled as he arrived at the base, though he did manage to get his foot down in time to retire Martin, who leaped over the pitcher trying to avoid contact. Though Wang quickly was back on his feet, he was limping as he was helped off the field by Nationals head trainer Lee Kuntz.
Even if the injury proves not to be serious, Wang could still have a tough time making the Opening Day roster. Given how cautious the Nationals have been with the Taiwanese hurler as he attempts to make a full comeback from major shoulder surgery in 2009, the club likely won't let him take the mound for his next scheduled start (Tuesday against the Mets).
Wang would then have only 16 days to get healthy before the April 5 season opener in Chicago, though as the Nationals' No. 5 starter he wouldn't need to pitch until April 10 or 11 in New York.
If Wang is unable to avoid the disabled list, the Nationals are well-positioned to replace him in their rotation with John Lannan, who appeared to be the odd man out of the club's overcrowded rotation. General manager Mike Rizzo has fielded calls from several other teams interested in acquiring the 27-year-old lefty, but Rizzo was reluctant all along to trade Lannan for anything less than a significant return, knowing he might well need another starter in case of injury.
74 comments:
This just stinks. He really looked like he was at least 90% back. I hope it is not too bad and that he heals quickly.
I was at the game against the Yankees, MicheleS; Wang looked more than 90% back. This sort of freak injury almost makes you wonder if some players are just genetically unlucky.
Agreed MicheleS, he really looked good. And Wang just knows how to pitch. I hope he is not out long, but I fear the worst after watching the video in slow-mo. Too many things bent the wrong way or too far for that not to be more than a hamstring pull. I am betting hyperextended knee and mild ankle sprain, along with the hammy. 15 DL to start the season, for sure.
So, Lannan, who did not pitch like LannEn yesterday (although he had the B-team defense behind him so his BABIP was probably .500), will be on the starting rotation to open the season.
Let the hating begin. ;-)
I am wondering why it LannEn being moved into that #5 role and not Detwiler? This would allow you to bring Mattheus or Stammen north and actually make the bullpen stronger. I would still think hard about sending LannEn to AAA and only bring him up if one of the starting 5 has issues. Its a long season and I have said all along, you can't have enough pitching.
Very sad about Wang as he looked great before the injury. Lets hope he recovers fully and gets back by May and can then finish the season strong as we make our playoff run.
Go Nats!
The Retired Journalist.. If he was back all the way that makes it worse!.. Sigh, Why do I feel like an anvil fell on top of me.
This is such a shame... But hopefully, it's something that can be effectively rehabbed, and Wang will be available for most of the season. LannEn has a chance to make a splash, here... His season is, potentially, a great story, up, for the first month, back to 'Cuse, even if he's 5-0, when Wang is ready, back up, when Stras gets shut down, pitching critical games down the stretch, making it hard on Davey to choose between him and Wang for the post season #4 spot, and taking his Ring on a tour of suitors looking for a solid, middle of the rotation guy...... I think Costner's already got someone working on the script....
Ditto the comments about CMW. To come so far to then head to the DL on a freak play is just cosmically wrong.
I'm with you sjm308. Lannan is a very well known commodity with an equally well known value (discussed ad nauseum around here the past few days). When are we planning on finding out once and for all about Detwiler? If not now, when? I can see going to Lannan if CMW is OK and will just miss the first couple of starts of the year, but if it's worst case (please no!), commit to Detwiler.
First, as others have noted, and as LannEn noted in a Comak piece, it stinks for Wang. By all accounts he worked very hard over the past few years to get back on the mound, and yesterday he was looking really good until he was injured.
Second, well, there is no second because I don't really do the armchair GM or manager thing. I'll let the guys who do that for a living figure it out before the end of ST. (But you guys can go ahead and speculate. :-))
"It [stinks]," left-hander John Lannan said. "He’s been throwing his butt off. It seems that he’s almost back. Hopefully there’s no setback."
Never always all-in on CMW, but he looked awesome yesterday!
He showed some pitches that he had never really commanded before.
Sad day for him and the Nats. Looking at the tapes, I'm also thinking that he may have suffered several lower-body injuries, not just one.
Things are not settled by any means. I actually do not feel that this pitcher competition is a good thing. The manager actually said yesterday that everyone is overthrowing. I think not knowing how the rotation is going to shape up is messing with their heads.Almost every one of them has too much at stake and instead of working on pitches they are desperately trying to secure their spot. Only Gio acts relaxed - he has a long term extension, he doesn't care where he is in the rotation - he knows he is in it - therefore he can work on things and relax. The rest of them don't know where they fit in and are trying too hard to prove themselves. I feel that this is really interfering with them getting themselves ready.You have a bad outing, you are on the trade block or headed for Syracuse.
Hope Wang's injury is minor. The guy has worked hard and the Nats have been supportive ... On another note, our Phenom Bryce hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Yesterday he struck out twice and didn't hit the cutoff man from right field all that often. He looked more "A" ball than MLB. On the other hand, my man Lombardozzi looked MLB. He's out-played both Desi and Espi IMO so far this spring and looks to have potential in the leadoff spot, unlike Desi. He's got grit. For example, yesterday he battled at the plate, fouling off pitches and eventually sac flies to left, which made MLBTV highlights last night.
Best 25 go North
We should just be thankful that the first major injury this year happened in an area where we are loaded. Better our #5 starter than Zimmerman, Morse or Ramos.
@sjm308 - Lannan over Detwiler? Pretty simple, Lannan has more experience and does not project well as a reliever.
I first heard of his injury on twitter and after catching the game last night it couldn't be emphasized enough how digusting the play looked. The body can take alot and recover but boy does this look nasty. I'm not sure how the body works but I was certain it would have been some type of knee injury. Hopefully some rest is all it will take.
DE NAT
Actually this vould work out... if Wang is shut down for a month or two then rehabs for a month then he might be arriving right near the time SS is being shut down, if sooner then what Lannan or Detwiler is doing will decide his fate.
Being a "glass half empty " type anyway, I have been dreading the unexpected injury. The Nats just seem to have everything going for them right now and this is a set back. The injury certainly looked ugly as I watched, (haven't seen slo mo yet). I'm hoping for a speedy recovery for him. He did look very good yesterday.
Poor CMW. He just seems snake-bitten. I see Lannan getting first crack at the 5 slot,then Det, then Stammen. Three good choices - may the best man win
This allows for the greatest depth. I feel terrible for Wang, and I hope he returns to the mound tomorrow and gives us a tough decision, but with him on the DL we keep six starters longer. Plus Detweiler and Gorzelanny. Without Lannan, I really think we lack depth.
Ooh - new (gulp) line: May the best man win.
And be one of the best 25 going north!
I am resigned to Lannan as the 5th guy in the rotation. Altho I was anxious to trade him over the winter, once the Nats traded 40 percent of their top prospects to Oakland it was clear Lannan had to be retained for situations just like this. Detwiler becomes Lannan-in-waiting in the BP because, between the two of them, he has the best chance of getting someone out in a crisis. Hopefully Wang returns sometime relatively soon before Lannan "pitches" -- and I use the term advisedly -- the Nats out of the pennant race. Hopefully, also, Jackson's and Gonzalez's heretofore virgin elbows hold up.
Much as Rizzo and Johnson praise Lannan in public, I hope in private they are telling him he is a 100 percent lock to be non-tendered if he doesn't learn how to pitch, i.e., stop nibbling and find the places in the strike zone where batters can't rip line drives. I'm hoping it's a mental thing; if he truly can't control where the thing is going -- except where it's going straight down the middle -- then he's a big fat debit.
Someone died last month, and this cannot be compared to that, but I do feel very heavy of heart. As you know, I've been a CMW admirer from the first, I feel he has the seeds of greatness still in him--as he not only worked back from devastating injuries but he added pitches to his repertoire.
To whoever thinks CMW "took a dive" on purpose, you are NUTS. He is smart (and has a very smart agent, to wit, his signing one day after the deadline so he could not be traded). He is ethical, and he wants to have a career. I hope this is a short-term setback.
sjm308: If Lannan replaces Wang in the rotation, there's still the option of letting Gorzelanny go so that there would be room in the bullpen for Detwiler and Stammen/Mattheus.
The best men will be the best 25!! North they will come!
NatsLady, I'm sorry to hear that, belatedly, and yes, this doesn't compare at all, but it's really a shame. The kid has worked hard and had a chance for a great comeback story (not starring Costner, thank goodness), and now I am afraid that's by the boards. Lannan's right, it sucks.
Lannan traded, Gorze out, Wang on DL.
Matheus, Stammen goes north
Gardner said... [in a previous post]
Was sitting on the 1B line during the play in question - it was a fantastically unatheletic play - like a deer being shot...looked terrible
That's pretty much what it looked like on TV, too. My knee hurts just remembering it.
NatsLady, obviously Wang didn't take a dive but it sure looked like a slapstick type of move and ouch, it hurts watching it.
We can hope for the best.
Flores traded, Pudge re-signed, LaRoche and Morse injured, Lombardozzi and Harper up too soon,
Man, this get-a-high-draft-pick stuff is easy!
Everyone who loves baseball and the underdog was rooting for that guy, and he was living up to what everyone was hoping for him. I was watching the game on MASN. You see a play like that maybe once a season, and it happens to him just as he was on the cusp of seeing all that hard work of the past 2 years coming to fruition, and validating the Nats' investment in him.
They have to be careful not to bring him back until his legs are steady underneath him. His catastrophic shoulder injury occurred after he had injured his ankle, and had changed his throwing mechanics to compensate for that when he came back. They have got to put him on the DL until they are sure he is whole.
They have Lannen with Det in the hole, so there is no reason to rush him back. Looks like Lannen is off the trading block, for now.
Laddie_Blah_Blah
Best 25, collectively, go north.
Wang seems to have a problem, as Joe Girardi pointed out, when running is involved. I remember the injury that initially derailed his career. He was running the bases in an interleague game, & twisted his ankle rounding third. The guy may know what to do on the mound, but when it requires doing anything else on a ball field, he's not particularly athletic. Or. maybe he just has weak ankles.
Almost makes you miss Livo and his smooth, deceptively lazy fielding.
NatsLady is upset and I am too. Freak accidents happen all the time in baseball. That fall did remind me of Dick Van Dyke but obviously not staged. The Phoolies fans are enjoying the Nats misfortunes. Kind of stinks when other teams fans laugh at injuries.
gonatsgo wrote:
Things are not settled by any means. I actually do not feel that this pitcher competition is a good thing. The manager actually said yesterday that everyone is overthrowing. I think not knowing how the rotation is going to shape up is messing with their heads.Almost every one of them has too much at stake and instead of working on pitches they are desperately trying to secure their spot.
Are we talking about the Nationals? Before camp opened, four of the five rotation slots were locked in. Are you going to tell me that Jordan Zimmermann and Edwin Jackson don't know they will be in the rotation? Strasburg knows he will be in the rotation - it's only sports talk radio and internet bloggers who have him sitting out the first couple of months to "save him for the pennant race" (a pennant race which is hard to see unless Strasburg is pitching). The fifth spot is up for grabs, but I don't think the top four starters spend any time worrying about who the #5 guy is going to be.
This team knows cattle call spring trainings and pitching uncertainty; the 2012 Nationals don't suffer from that malady. Finding a CF, yes; trying not to lead the league in striking out, yes. Pitching uncertainty? Not from where I'm watching.
I was feeling bad for LannEn and now I feel sorry for CMW. I hope the news on the injury is that it's an easy rehab and he really does make it all the way back to his former Wangness. I love that John really does feel bad for him.
I'm crossing my fingers and everything else that can be crossed for him.
Arlington BigFish said...
Wang seems to have a problem, as Joe Girardi pointed out, when running is involved. I remember the injury that initially derailed his career. He was running the bases in an interleague game, & twisted his ankle rounding third. March 16, 2012 9:46 AM
I forgot about that injury. Its just so bizarre like a self-fulfilling prophecy with the many people that thought Wang would start the season on the DL with a twinge.
Unless it is truly a hamstring tweak, it could be much worse than a 15 DL with a rehab assignment. Here's hoping positive thoughts that it is just a minor injury.
NatsLady, I had the same thought about Livo's fielding, but thought I'd posted too much here out of Livo Love. Say what you will about him, he is an honest to goodness, flat out athlete. That come-backer from last year that he took into his hand, a millisecond before it hit his face is proof. So were his goofy, "I got this" jogs to a ball, with the soft toss to first. As BigFish observed above, he may be more pitcher than overall athlete.
The "he" in the last sentence being Wang, not Livan. Of course. Oooof!
said sm13
North they will come!
Agree with you I do!
;-)
(a dc wonk)
Couple more thoughts:
Wang has hurt himself twice & both times it involved running but did you all see the way he managed to brush firstbase with his toe as he was falling. It's a shame he was hurt but that was a really good play (except for the stumbling and falling and hurting himself).
My points on LannEn were addressed by several of you and I am not a LannEn hater. I just think the work by Mattheus & Stammen have been strong and while they both probably have options I thought we might benefit more with at least one of them in the pen and LannEn in AAA.
Glass half full look at this does bring Wang back 100% healthy. They certainly won't rush him if you look at how they handled the last two years. He gets back in May/June and is able to take over when SS hits the 162 inning mark. Detwiler thrives as the #5 starter and moves back into the pen when Wang returns. We start strong with our other 4 guys doing just what we expected and we battle for the top spot in the NL East from day one.
Go Nats!
Its just so bizarre like a self-fulfilling prophecy with the many people that thought Wang would start the season on the DL with a twinge.
How is that "self-fulfilling"?
Talking about injuries, the Nats won't have to worry about Ryan Howard for a long time as Howard's recovery has been pushed back at least another month from beginning of May to the end of May at the earliest which means he won't be playing in the FU Philly series May 4 to 6th and probably will miss the Nats Hello Philly series in Philly on May 21st to 23rd.
Its self-fulfilling when those who said it repeatedly have it come to fruition.
sjm, you could well be right, but my gut reaction is that it makes no sense to send down John Lannan in order to add Ryan Mattheus. But then, I don't quite get why everyone's so excited about Ryan Mattheus in the first place, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask.
Which, come to think of it, may explain why you didn't ask me. Hmm. I must go ponder this now.
The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.
Hadn't heard about Howard, P2P. Thanks for sharing, and I'm sorry to hear it. I hated seeing him get hurt.
Scooter - Howard showed up at Phillies camp yesterday back in a walking boot. Hard to believe he will be back in 75 days.
I'm just hoping our big man Michael Morse will be OK soon. Davey said yesterday it was his shoulder. A lat is not a shoulder. Its like, here we go again.
Scooter,
I agree with you 100%
Good to have depth. I now want to see a real competition between Lannan and Detwiler. The baseball tendency will be to give Lannan the ball due to loyalty and experience. However, I want the best pitcher starting. Not Lannan hate, I just think Detwiler is a better pitcher and has a better upside.
From Davey yesterday in the Post: "He’s not worried about anything. He says he doesn’t feel that bad. We’re just going to wait until he’s ready. He’s still got that thing in his shoulder. I’m not really worried."
Another "good" thing is that if CMW is on the DL for opening day, there is no way they are trading him in June. Let him recover and be there for us in August and September.
There is no competition between Detwiler and Lannan. When was the last time Detwiler pitched 2 back-to-back games into the 7th inning? Has Detwiler eclipsed 180 innings in a MLB season?
Competition is over.
I'm tickled the way Davey is handling Bryce. Now, you see (and I admit) that kid is not MLB ready. But Davey tells the world, and the kid, that he wants him up and he's got a shot. But when Bryce whiffs at major-league (and minor-league) pitching while everyone around him is hitting dingers, he must know he's not ready, and that's good.
Remember--reminder from last year--take everything Davey says with a salt truck.
The good news out of the CMW injury is a likely stint on the DL which allows us to fill the 5th spot in the rotation with someone other than John Lannan, thankfully Detweiler and Stammen are more than capable and we can find some poor team which will take the $5million contract and give us a fungo bat and a bucket of balls in return, he is worthless and other GMs have said so, maybe we can get Mike O'Conner back from the Yankees he is much better than Lannan right now!
Its self-fulfilling when those who said it repeatedly have it come to fruition.
Ugh. It's self-fulfilling only when the person making the prophecy (repeatedly or not) makes it come to fruition. I'm fairly confident that Wang did not predict that he would end up on the DL, nor did he intentionally fall and get injured.
NatsLady said...
I'm tickled the way Davey is handling Bryce. Now, you see (and I admit) that kid is not MLB ready. But Davey tells the world, and the kid, that he wants him up and he's got a shot. But when Bryce whiffs at major-league (and minor-league) pitching while everyone around him is hitting dingers, he must know he's not ready, and that's good.
Remember--reminder from last year--take everything Davey says with a salt truck.
March 16, 2012 10:45 AM
Glad you changed the subject as I'm not going to speculate on injuries. The Nats will need CMW back, and personally I don't see Detwiler as a serious contender for this particular rotation based strictly on stamina of back-to-back starts with 5 day rotations. I actually have more faith in Craig Stammen but just don't want to think about going back to the future. Been there, seen it, done it, and it makes me nervous but Stammen has been impressive.
On Bryce Harper, I agree with you NatsLady. Its not the popular opinion around these parts. Still wondering where anyone thinks he is ready when you actually see him play. Ichiro'ing infield hit and grounders finding holes count in the box score the same as line drives but we have yet to see Bryce dominate. No XBH's so far.
Where I see his biggest need for improvement is biting on the high heat that pitchers are getting him on and flailing at the breaking pitches. The pitchers are all playing to his agressiveness. That's what the Minors are for, to work out the weak points in your game.
"There is no competition between Detwiler and Lannan. When was the last time Detwiler pitched 2 back-to-back games into the 7th inning?"
The answer to that question is September 20th and 25th of 2011.
On 9/20, he pitched 7.1 innings in Philadelphia, allowing 0 runs on 3 hits and 1 walk...
Next start was at home against the Braves and he went 6 innings, allowing 0 runs on 4 hits and 2 walks...
But, I agree with this sentiment... that if Wang is only going to miss a few starts in early April, the Lannan should be the #5 and Detwiler should go to the pen... but if Wang is going to be out 2 months or whatever, then Detwiler should be the #5 with an Matheuws or Stammen going to the pen... and Lannan going down to Syracuse...
From Adam Kilgore:
● The Yankees gave Bryce Harper a stiff test Thursday. After Michael Pineda struck him out in his first at-bat, the Yankees summoned left-handed specialist Clay Rapada. The Nationals want Harper to improve against southpaws, and Rapada, with his side-winding delivery, held lefties to a .104 batting average last year. Rapada struck out Harper on five pitches, most of them fluttering breaking balls on the outside corner.
Pretty much every left-handed hitter struggles against Rapada. In his next at-bat, Harper popped up against Juan Cedeno, a minor league lefty wearing No. 97. If and when Harper starts the season at Class AAA, a primary reason will be the Nationals desire to Harper to have more seasoning against left-handed pitching.
Very sporting of the Yanks to give Bryce some practice against lefties. :)
howl31, Detwiler made those particular starts on a 6 day pace. It was a big mistake in 2011 not working Detwiler on a 5 day pace to see what he could do.
Whereas Wang had the inside track to the No. 5 spot in the rotation because of his contract status and warmup routine, it's now a real battle between Lannan and Detwiler, with Matheus' performance during the rest of ST having a potential impact as well. DJ seems comfortable with Gorzalanny as a reliever. But Detwiler is a starter if there's room for him, and Lannan will have to win that job rather than it just being handed to him now that Wang has gone down. If Matheus gets his act together, he may make it tough for Davey to send him, as opposed to Lannan, to Syracuse.
So while Detwiler will be either in the pen or the No. 5 spot, Lannan will either be in the No. 5 spot or in AAA, and Matheus will either be in the pen or AAA. If BTFGN means anything, this will be a real competition for the remainder of the spring. May the best men win.
When is it time to be concerned about Michael Morse?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/wilson-ramos-michael-morse-rick-ankiel-out-of-nationals-lineup-nursing-injuries/2012/03/15/gIQAKSLDES_blog.html
@howl31 - "but if Wang is going to be out 2 months or whatever, then Detwiler should be the #5 with an Matheuws or Stammen going to the pen... and Lannan going down to Syracuse..."
Why, exactly? Detwiler has yet to show that he can even be as good as Lannan. There is no reason not to let him gain more experience in the bullpen and let the guy who has a long track record be the number 5 starter, especially when you can now consider him to be one of the very best #5 starters in the league. Almost any other team in the league would take 180 innings of sub 4.00 ERA in that fifth spot.
Section 222 said...
Its self-fulfilling when those who said it repeatedly have it come to fruition.
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Ugh. It's self-fulfilling only when the person making the prophecy (repeatedly or not) makes it come to fruition. I'm fairly confident that Wang did not predict that he would end up on the DL, nor did he intentionally fall and get injured.
--------------------
Ugh indeed. How did we get into this?
It's "self-fulfilling" if it fulfills itself, i.e., if the act of making the prophecy brings about or substantially contributes to its fulfillment. It doesn't matter how many times I say I'm going to win the Powerball this week, or who else says it; saying so has nothing to do with making it happen. There is no causal relationship. It's a coincidence.
If, OTOH, I were to go on at great length about what "self-fulfilling" prophesy means, by way of predicting how bored and annoyed that would make people, now that might be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And I'm already worried about Morse.
Indeed, that's where the "self" part comes in.
Section 222 said...
Its self-fulfilling when those who said it repeatedly have it come to fruition.
I'll take that one bdrube. Detwiler is a power lefty and former number one draft choice. You can make an argument that we've given Stammen, Martin, Martis, and Atilano (remember those last three names!) more of an opportunity to show if they could stick in a a big league rotation than Detwiler. If CMW is out for a couple of months (and I sincerely hope that is not the case as good as he looked yesterday), this is the chance to give Detwiler the ball every fifth day. We know what Lannan brings to the table. His ceiling is known (and I argued vociferously earlier this week that his ceiling his high enough that you send him to Syracuse before you trade him for a bag of baseballs).
I think the better question is ... if we lose CMW for a couple of months, when exactly are we planning to learn what we have in Detwiler? Next year, we will likely have two slots to fill in the rotation. I'll argue that any audition time this year should go to Detwiler before anyone else in the organization (Purke and Rosenbaum included).
Uh-oh, I didn't read the whole thread and now I've probably bored and annoyed sec3. :-)
If, OTOH, I were to go on at great length about what "self-fulfilling" prophesy means, by way of predicting how bored and annoyed that would make people, now that might be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
And I'm already worried about Morse.
Me too. I'm worried anytime a Nat suffers an injury and the player and/or management say they're not worried about it. Cf., Flores, LaRoche. It would be nice for Morse to get some more at bats and time in the field before Opening Day, but at least he's not fighting for a starting job. I'd tell him, if you're not truly 100% just rest that lat.
Lucky for me, there's a new thread. Maybe sec3 won't see that. :-)
If Wang is out for some time, Lannan should replace him. We know what we will get out of Lannan. We have no idea what RD can do. We can talk about potential all day long, but RD has not done much in past to warrant that fifth place I think. Anyways I am sure FO will make the correct move.
Reprieved.
Too bad. That was clearly a play in which the first baseman should have been on the bag.
Looks like it's "wait 'till next year" and the season hasn't even started yet. Oh, the pain. Lannan pitching, Morse out, Desmond and Werth in(!), what more can go wrong. Go Nationals.
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