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N.L. East Standings
Offensive Game of the Week: Ian Desmond 6/9 vs. Twins – 3-for-4, 2 RBI, 2 R
Pitching Line of the Week: Jordan Zimmermann 6/9 vs. Twins – 7 IP, 0 ER, 2 H, 2 BB, 8 SO, 111 pitches (77 strikes)
Top Storylines
Bryce Harper’s knee – The Nats superstar is seeing Dr. James Andrews for a second opinion on his swollen left knee today. Mike Rizzo said Sunday the team is confident there is no structural damage, or any reason for serious concern. Still, Nats fans will be anxiously awaiting the news as Harper has been the team’s most indispensible player so far this season.
Pitching injuries – The Nats are getting close to having both Stephen Strasburg and Ross Detwiler back in their rotation, assuming all goes well with their recoveries over the next week. But making that assumption hasn’t exactly worked out for Washington this year. How they progress over the next week will be interesting to watch. Though they have been with the team most of this season, seeing Strasburg in particular back in the rotation could be a nice boost for the .500 Nats.
Hitting the road – After getting the series win against the Twins, the Nats now travel on a three-city road trip beginning in Colorado on Tuesday. Dan Haren, who has allowed the most home runs in the National League this year, will take a stab at the Rockies in Coors Field. The Nats will likely then send Ross Ohlendorf out to pitch Wednesday. For a team that has struggled hitting over the last few weeks, the Nats will need to bring some offense to Denver.
Quote of the Week
Adam LaRoche on the demotion of Tyler Moore to Triple-A Syracuse:
"That's the whole reason he's going down there. I've told him over and over the last day or two that if they didn't care about you, you'd stay up here and get 4-5 at-bats a week or whatever it is. That's the hardest thing, being a younger guy, getting sent down for the first time, it's hard to see a positive in that. But they just want him to get at-bats, get his stroke back, get confident again. So hopefully he goes, couple weeks, get right, get a bunch of at-bats."
"We've all known it since he's been up here that he's an everyday player for a lot of people. He's proved that in the minor leagues, what he can do with 5-600 at-bats and he's in a bad spot here. He just doesn't get a lot of at-bats. You can't expect a guy with not a lot of big league time to be productive off the bench. It's just too hard. It's hard to do when you're playing everyday. When you sit 2-3 days, it's just really hard to do. I hate it for him because I love having him in this clubhouse and I love having his bat and the fact that he can play outfield, play first base. Selfishly, it'd be nice to have him up here but there's no doubt it's the best thing for him."
"That's the whole reason he's going down there. I've told him over and over the last day or two that if they didn't care about you, you'd stay up here and get 4-5 at-bats a week or whatever it is. That's the hardest thing, being a younger guy, getting sent down for the first time, it's hard to see a positive in that. But they just want him to get at-bats, get his stroke back, get confident again. So hopefully he goes, couple weeks, get right, get a bunch of at-bats."
"We've all known it since he's been up here that he's an everyday player for a lot of people. He's proved that in the minor leagues, what he can do with 5-600 at-bats and he's in a bad spot here. He just doesn't get a lot of at-bats. You can't expect a guy with not a lot of big league time to be productive off the bench. It's just too hard. It's hard to do when you're playing everyday. When you sit 2-3 days, it's just really hard to do. I hate it for him because I love having him in this clubhouse and I love having his bat and the fact that he can play outfield, play first base. Selfishly, it'd be nice to have him up here but there's no doubt it's the best thing for him."
Tweet of the Week
#305 in the house nene35 ,teammate in high school and now teammate for the #nationals instagram.com/p/aWkfYQtJkx/
— Gio Gonzalez (@GioGonzalez47) June 9, 2013
Road Ahead
Mon. – OFF
Tue. – 8:40 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (Haren)
Wed. – 8:40 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (TBD)
Thu. – 3:10 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (Gonzalez)
Tue. – 8:40 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (Haren)
Wed. – 8:40 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (TBD)
Thu. – 3:10 p.m. at Colorado Rockies (Gonzalez)
Fri. – 7:05 p.m. at Cleveland Indians (Zimmermann)
Sat. – 7:15 p.m. at Cleveland Indians (TBD)
Sun. – 1:05 p.m. at Cleveland Indians (Haren)
Sat. – 7:15 p.m. at Cleveland Indians (TBD)
Sun. – 1:05 p.m. at Cleveland Indians (Haren)
213 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 213 Newer› Newest»Wow....I'm never first...and I can't think of anything to say, either.
Ok, it was a good day at the park yesterday, here's hoping Dan remembers how to throw wormkillers tomorrow.
The Rockies will likely feast off of Haren tomorrow. They have offense, we don't. They don't have Eckstein, we do!
"We" do, huh?
If there is no serious concern about Harper's knee then why Dr. Andrews? There are any number of other specialists they could have turned to that would not carry the same doom and gloom cache ("off to see Dr. Andrews" says "the guy is really hurt and likely needs surgery" to a lot of people) and that would not be a day of travel away each way.
So here's a question for the business of baseball types -- last night's paid attendance was announced to be 27,949. At first I thought that the advance ticket sales for the Friday night game that was rained out had to have been higher than that. Wednesday's Met's game drew over 36,000. But maybe 27,949 was the actual advance sale, and the above 30K expected attendance these days for a weekend game includes a lot of walkups. And what of the folks who had tickets for Friday and didn't use them? Will they not be counted in the attendance for the game for which they exchange their rainchecks? Thoughts?
Just looking at the probables for the next week make me happy we are at .500. Things did not spiral out of control. Granted, they got bad and the Nats are 7.5 games back but come on it looks like the light and the end of the tunnel is get closer. Add in a hopefully positive result from Harper's visit with Dr. Andrews and next week may be a lot brighter.
Don,
I couldn't agree with you more. I don't like to comment on medical topics because I have no expertise on the topic but with the Nats there is a history of either under diagnosing a problem or under reporting it. The fact is that Harper has had knee bursitis diagnosed 2 weeks ago and the inflamation was supposed to go down in a manner of days and it hasn't.
You don't go to see Dr. Andrews for a hang nail. I for one am very concerned and until I see Stras and Det on the mound and effective I will continue to be concerned there as well.
State of the Nats is, A Mess.
Don, when money and time aren't a factor why not see the best in the world. The #1 Doc. Just for the peace of mind it's worth it. What Dr. Andrews told him this morning is the final word.
Water23,
Looking at the past week in perspective does not really give me great cause for optimism. We played 2 teams which are not going to be anywhere near the playoffs at home without facing any top notch pitching and we came away 3-2.
We are still not looking like the machine we were last year. If Harper and Stras return quickly there is still time to make a run, lots of time. The issue isn't how far behind we are but rather that we are not really playing all that well.
GoSM,
Agreed. Especially after all the troubles the Nats medical staff has had over the years. Additional opinions are a good idea.
Rabbit34,
Thanks Ior. We all needed your deeply detailed and thought out analysis.
Ghost,
But you have to be concerned that the prognosis expected based on the exam by the team orthopedic surgeon did not materialize. They could have gone to Dr. Andrews 2 weeks ago, I think they are going now because the swelling isn't going down as Dr. D said it would.
JD,
I understand beating bad teams does not always inspire confidence but you only get to beat the teams on your schedule.
My thoughts we more on how the with all the injuries to SPs, the Nats are still at .500. The team is getting healthy and has a chance to make a run.
As far as our place in the standings we are still very much in the danger zone. This up coming road trip,if it goes badly could land us in double digits behind the braves and that's a heck of hole to climb out of.
When announcing the paid attendance for a game, I'm pretty sure they count up the number of people who paid money to attend that game, i.e. bought a ticket for it. Tickets obtained by exchanging rainchecks or STH ticket exchanges or RCR redemptions and the like are probably considered the same as comp tickets for purposes of counting paid attendance at a game. Of course this does give them the opportunity to sell the same seat twice if someone exchanges out their ticket for a game and someone else buys that seat. So the paid attendance at a game could actually be above capacity (even before counting SRO tickets) for a game.
Water23,
I get it but let's be fair. We had tons of injuries last year as well including lots of missed playing time by Morse,Werth and Zim and Zim played hurt for much of the 1st half.
You are right about beating the teams you play but last year we would have gone 5 - 0 on this homestand against these teams and this year we are still making Gee look like Seaver. If we look like we did in the 1st game yesterday for say 10 games I'll start feeling better about our chances.
JD,
Only time and Bryce Harper's knee exam will tell!
It is Bryce Harper. If he gets hurt you send him to Andrews. Why wouldn't you?
4.70 is the answer for this team since the starting pitching is so good. it may have to be 6.70 in Denver.
Rendon gets his 1st MLB home run.
Water23,
You are exactly right.
SCNatsFan,
Yes but why wait a month before you do it?
Rendon should get his 1st MLB HR in Denver this week.
JD, they were telling Harp this was classic bursitis so he took the time for it to get better then it didn't happen like clockwork.
Let's hope the bursa sacs don't have to be removed or else he won't be back till the end of June.
Well the offense will certainly have incentive to score, considering it will take quite a few runs to win with Haren & Ohlendorf pitching....in coors
Ghost @ 1:41 -- exactly. You're making what could be a make-or-break decision for the season of your 20-year old franchise player, and likely of the whole team's season. In what rational universe do you not see the best to make that decision on?
Ghost,
'they were telling Harp this was classic bursitis so he took the time for it to get better then it didn't happen like clockwork.'
I know. That's my problem. It seems that this happens all the time. Det was supposed to be out for a few days, Stras wasn't supposed to miss a start, Werth a couple days. I sense a theme, no?
And what's the deal with Ramos? he was supposed to start Baseball activities last Thursday. Does anyone know when he's scheduled to play in rehab games?
JD, I'm as critical of the medical staff and the rose colored glasses the Nats seem to wear about injuries as anyone, but to be fair in the case of the pitchers, I seem to remember there was a hope expressed that Det and Stras wouldn't have to miss starts or go on the DL, but it was always portrayed as a "wait and see" situation. And you can do that with starters because they aren't going to pitch again for several days anyway.
Any further reports on Harper declining a cortisone shot. I hope Dr. Andrews can convince him, if it will help, that it's ok to get one.
Hey, I posted at 2:22 pm. [Cue Twilight Zone music.] Too bad it's not Feb. 22. On second thought...
I dont think anyone should be surprised that Harp is getting a 2nd opinion...
I heard though that Bursitis takes 4- 6 weeks to 'heal'....
I counted to see if you had post number 22, but no such luck. :-)
Section 222 said...
Hey, I posted at 2:22 pm. [Cue Twilight Zone music.] Too bad it's not Feb. 22. On second thought...
June 10, 2013 2:31 PM
Harper is a Mormon. Maybe cortisone is one of those things like caffeine, alcohol and nicotine that Mormons don't do. Even though he doesn't cite religion as the reason, he does seem to follow the Mormon rules pretty religiously.
The Rockies ... have offense, we don't. They don't have Eckstein, we do!
Same thing could be said last year at this time. Nats team BA was .238 or something (with Eck as hitting coach). The Nats then scored 10 runs or more three games in a row, and played great offense the entire rest of the year.
Here's hoping it'll happen again.
Latest from Kilgore --
“@AdamKilgoreWP: Missed this yesterday: The Nats have released Zach Duke. Henry Rodriguez's DFA process is still playing out.”
Assume that means there at be some interest by more than one team in HRod. Hope we can work out a deal that puts him in the AL. (forget about meaningful trade value).
We are still not looking like the machine we were last year.
We haven't had our starting team on the field yet, for very many of the games.
When we get Harper and Ramos back, then the offense will have all its pieces.
When we get Stras and Detwiler back, our pitching rotation will have all its pieces.
Rest and Protect The Area
The first steps of bursitis treatment are to keep pressure off of the affected area, and try to limit your activity of that joint. Some individuals benefit from placing an elastic bandage (Ace wrap) or immobilizing brace around the joint until the inflammation subsides. Movement and pressure of the inflamed area will only cause exacerbation and prolongation on symptoms.
I took this excerpt out of the section on Rest And Protect The Knew.
Do you think Bryce did a good job of limiting movement and pressure on the knee?
Steady, sounds like they may be working on a trade for Henry. Don't expect more than Cutter Dykstra or a bag of balls.
Ghost, that's exactly what I said. The point of a trade would not be to get much value but to make sure he's in the AL if by some remote chance he should consistently recover his late 2011-April 2012 form.
JD..,
Your welcome. No problem.
Is Josh Roenicke that relieved for the Twins yesterday Desi 's brother in law? I know his wife is from the baseball Roenicke family. There is a manager, too. Just curious.
Steady, it's also ego driven. 2 years and 2 months and Josh Willingham invested in this player. Rizzo doesn't want to walk away empty. Again, I believe Rizzo was trying to trade him prior to the DFA.
swami, the one and same bro-in-law to Ian.
Does anyone find it odd that Clip has five wins? How many of our starters have five? I mean, we don't appear to come from behind, but if Clip has wins, we must have been behind or tied when Clip came in. Again, just finding things curious today.
I wouldn't be broken-hearted if Harp has the bursa sac removed. Having him come back in a month, not worried about more inflammation, limber and supple, and ready to go every day, through the end of October, really appeals to me...
Ghost- thought so!
swami, Roenicke was with the Rockies last year and Desi's 1st AB was a triple off of him. His next AB was a HR off of him. Not too shabby in an in-law-sibling rivalry type of way.
I'm not sure where one would even do this original research, but does anyone have any baseline data at all on how often diagnoses turn out to have underestimated the extent of injuries, been wrong, or wound up being the wrong treatment? I have nothing to base an opinion on, besides the certainty that the Nats aren't the only baseball team with injuries, but are they really worse off in that than other teams?
Sec 3 @ 3:14 p.m.,
There's a Twitter feed called 'MLB Injury News' that I get. They have a website with the same name, but I've only visited it once or twice. They track the reports of injuries, DL assignments (on and off), etc. You might start there for some of the basic information, but I suspect you'd have to do a lot of the accounting and analysis yourself.
Tough year for Chris Nelson. DFA'd today by the Angels and previously this season by the Yankees and Rockies. That's worse than the golden sombrero. Only good news is he is still getting paid. Will a 4th team pick him up?
Feel/Caps -- Thanks for the answer on paid attendance. That makes the most sense I think. So the attendance last night was the original advance sales for Friday, plus any walkups last night. And people who exchange their tickets for Friday for other games won't be counted for those games. I doubt a lot of those exchanges took place before Sunday, so the Nats weren't able to do alot of double sales. They might be able to for the July 26 rescheduled game against the Mets. I know I can't go to a Friday afternoon game, so they'll be able to resell my seats after I exchange them.
I guess Det is back this week?
JD, I did some reference on what Ior was in relations to your response to Rabbit. You spelled it wrong according to the Winnie-The-Pooh sites. It's Eeyore The Rabbit. ;)
Ghost, your golden sombrero remark reminded me of a question I had on Saturday afternoon when Zim went to the plate for the fifth time on Saturday. If you strike out four out of five at bats, is that still a golden sombrero? :-)
What happened to Aaron Hicks yesterday. To the DL with a hamstring injury.
You might start there for some of the basic information, but I suspect you'd have to do a lot of the accounting and analysis yourself.
Thanks, Mr. inOregon. ; )
I'm way too lazy to do that, but thanks.
I have heard nothing about how Det felt after pitching Saturday. I am assuming if there was an issue we would have heard, and he got on the plane. Stras was smiling yesterday - for real. I think Werth brings back some swagger and confidence and Rendon brings some fun and enthusiasm -- kind of like a puppy. The team has been a bit flat without Bryce's energy. I also hope Bryce does not play until he is right. This Kobernus guy is fast, but he may even be skinnier than Det. I like Abad. Lots if new vibes.
JD, if it was something significant with the knee they would wait until swelling went down anyway; waiting for 2 weeks for Andrews to get a better look isn't the worst idea in the world. Probably overkill on the Nats part (I hope) but can you imagine the uproar if the franchise player is misdiagnosed and misses significant time because of that ir even has his career shortened. Probably just a CYA move.
It seems to me this is a much different team than a week ago....The bullpen is performing so much better with Abad, Krol...Rendon and Werth replace batters around the .150 mark. Huge improvement in offense. Rendon had clutch hits this weekend that the previous men in the lineup likely would have missed.
yes, we have to see how rendon adjusts from the league adjustments but I'm hopeful given his raw talent.
Deuces, I'm not sure, but since "the sombrero" refers to an oh-for, I've always understood a "golden sombrero" to mean striking out in all your plate appearances, not just precisely four.
Sofa, maybe it's all your plate appearances, but it has to be at least four. 3 Ks if you're at the bottom of the order in a well pitched game doesn't seem to merit the same derision.
Someone told me that Jordan 's last pitch- 111- was. 96 mph. Is that right???? Yowsa!! Verlander does that thing where there is more gas at the end. I remember him at about 94 in the past. Relief appearance at 96,97 for one glorious inning, but that speed at the end of a long game? Is his velocity going up?
Swami,
All I heard is that Det pitched about 3 innings at Potomac and game up a run on 7 hits which makes me wonder why we think he's ready to join the rotation but what do I know?
That was my understanding as well on the sombrero.
In other news, I got the Milne reference but elected not to point out the misspelling.
Swami at 3:07,
Tyler Clippard has always seemed to get a lot of decisions -- not sure if that's real or just an impression -- including going 11-8 in 2010 and, of course, the All-Star Game a couple of seasons ago. The W is such a random -- and often odd or misapplied -- stat when applied to relief pitchers that it's almost not worth counting their Ws and Ls.
Section222, from Wiki on the Golden Sombrero with background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_sombrero
Eugene- so true. Also could be a blown save/ win. I think I was more looking at the situation-- being behind or tied and winning, because it did not feel like we did that.
You can go into a game and have a blown save and put your team behind and next inning they can reclaim the lead and you vulture a Win.
I agree that the reliever W/L is intriguing on the W side as it has a lot of luck. The L clearly is a bad thing for any pitcher but particularly for a reliever.
swami, ring me up for a drink!
That's what happens when I don't refresh my computer.
Gonat has the Wiki item, and I have this from the Old School Department (i.e., the hard-copy Dickson Baseball Dictionary that I just toted up from the basement baseball-watching lair):
"A mythical award given to a player who strikes out four times in a game."
(Which probably doesn't answer the original question but I did get some exercise and wake up the cat, so there's that.)
Thanks Gonat. What would we do without the internets. Come to think of it, we wouldn't be here.
So 5 Ks is the golden Sombrero, 5 is the platinum sombrero or the Olympic Rings, and 6 is the titanium sombrero. Maybe we can call three Ks the silver sombrero.
For those who truly care, Ior is how it's spelled in the Latin translation, Winnie Ille Pu.
Also on a Latin note, I found my long-lost custom T-shirt with EAMUS NATIONALES (let's go, Nationals) on it. Maybe this can coincide with a change in fortunes.
That, or "you're out."
Maybe we can call three Ks the silver sombrero.
Swami,
FWIW, my daughter's Little League coach in Slovakia was a former 1970s MLB pitcher -- Tom Johnson with the Twins. In 1977 he went 16-7 (with 15 saves, as well), all in relief. Some long, some short. Hard to imagine a reliever getting 16 Ws today (although Mr. Clippard's 11 was getting into that ballpark). Of course, they used relief pitchers much differently at that time. And they blew out his arm, which ended his career at a fairly young age.
The baseball dictionary also has the "Horn," for six strikeouts in one game. The book's etymology section notes that it was coined by Mike Flanagan as an homage to Sam Horn, the first nonpitcher to accomplish the feat. As well, it gives "Olympic rings" as a synonym for the platinum sombrero.
(To which my cat replies, that's all very interesting but, um, dinner?)
"All I heard is that Det pitched about 3 innings at Potomac and game up a run on 7 hits which makes me wonder why we think he's ready to join the rotation but what do I know?"
Like spring training games, stats in rehab starts are meaningless. What they're looking for is that he is healthy and ready to go, has no issues or pain the next day, etc. In a rehab start, the pitcher isn't going to push it like he would in a game that counts. So A ball hitters can get hits off him. It would be more of a concern if he was walking guys.
Sam Horn may not have been able to make contact, but his boys could swim. The Sons of Sam Horn are legion.
Three Ks is just another day at the office for Danny Espinosa.
Feel/Caps is bringing it today. Exactly right on rehab starts. Although three innings doesn't seem like enough to have the arm strength to return to the rotation and pitch for 6 innings. Anyone know if he did some simulated additional innings in the bullpen afterward? I know we were talking about maybe a tandem start with STammen on Wednesday, but it sounds like Ross O. will be brought up for that night. So that great post about the Nats being the only team to start two lousy pitchers from the 2009 Pirates will come true!
Sec222,
Exactly my point re Det. I don't care about the 7 hits but I think we need to see 4 - 6 innings at least. no?
Also, even if Ross O pitches on Wednesday we still need a starter for Saturday. Right? I don't think we are sending Karns out there again. If Ross pitched on Saturday then he doesn't really line up for next Saturday so I don't know.
JD, I don't know what to say about Karns. He doesn't seem MLB ready, but I don't know what the alternative is if Det or Sras can't get back by then. You've got Haren on Tuesday, Ross O. on Wed, Gio on Thursday, JZnn on Friday, and Karns's spot on Saturday. Maybe that's where Det slots back in. If so, then I think the next question mark would be Monday in Philly. Ross O again, or will Stras be ready to come back?
UnkyD --
When the bursa sac breaks/wears out/is removed, the result is bone against bone. Meaning continuing cortisone shots, celebrex type anti-inflamatories and shortened careers. This is serious stuff Harper's looking at.
Phil Regan was the original Vulture, so named by Koufax in 1966 when Regan won 14 games.
Ross O on Tuesday and Ross D on Saturday unless they go Ross D on a pitch count for Tuesday and Karns stays for Saturday.
Strasburg on Sunday in Cleveland.
Where is the update on Harper? He was meeting early this morning with Andrews I heard, surprised we haven't heard anything yet
Is that a prediction or have you heard something? Because I'm pretty sure Ross O is going on Wednesday.
Just read something that suggested that Garcia had a setback. Anyone hear something definitive?
Seems pretty likely they won't make an announcement on Harper until game day tomorrow, right? It seems like they don't make a lot of statements on stuff like this outside of before- or after-game comments. I could be wrong, though.
Sect222, I only see 2 scenarios. Ross O. brings the dreaded DFA with him when the Nats send him down. Going with Ross D. and Stammen behind him could be the alternative.
"When the bursa sac breaks/wears out/is removed, the result is bone against bone."
Other non-doctors on this site have said that when a bursa sac is removed it will grow back. Let's let Dr. Andrews and his ilk make the medical decisions.
Good point EmDash. Those press availabilities when they get to the park usually are the news breaking opportunities. Given the time difference, it could be 5 pm tomorrow before we hear much of anything about anything.
If Rizzo et al flew to Colorado last night with the team following a day-night doubleheader, they're probably still in bed now. Even if not, they're probably not in the mood for press conferences. Also, the press doesn't travel with the team. They may not be heading to Colorado until later today or tomorrow.
Looks like former Nat Sean Burnett is headed to Dr. James Andrews too, for his elbow impingement. Poor guy. He's been on the DL for the vast majority of this season so far, it seems like.
Just noticed that the Nats have played 62 games and are at 31-31. We have 100 games left. That makes some calculations of what we need to do to reach various benchmarks pretty easy:
100 wins --- 69-31 (.690). Not gonna happen.
98 wins (last year's record)-- 67-33 (.670). Basically win 2 out of every 3 games. Very tall order.
95 wins (fighting chance to win the division if the Braves falter a bit, but don't completely collapse) -- 64-36 (.640). Doable?
90 wins (pretty much essential for a WC berth the way the Reds, Pirates and Cards are playing -- 59-41 (.590). Certainly doable, but only with great improvement.
We've dug ourselves quite a hole.
I'm absolutely convinced Rizzo knew something about Burnett's health. Burnett was great last year (and has been great when he's played this year) and signed for cheap. There's a reason Rizzo let him walk.
@AdamKilgoreWP: Ugh. RT @MikeDiGiovanna Sean Burnett, who has made little progress in return from elbow impingement, went to AL to see Dr. James Andrews.
So not keeping Burnett was a major Rizzo fail? He knew at the end of last season about Sean's injury issues and status. A lot of it is playing the odds. (I like Sean and in terms of what he showed, would have loved it if they had kept him around. But part of his price tag issue was whether he'd actually be able to he around to show it.)
Colorado lists Jorge De La Rosa as their starter for Wednesday. He seems to be their best pitcher now.
Ghost,
Ross D. started on Saturday so his next pitching day is Thursday and assuming he needs one more rehab start (based on only pitching 3 innings on Saturday) he won't be ready to start until next Tuesday.
Haren is penciled in for Tuesday and Ross O for Wednesday, Gio for Thursday and JZimm for Friday. assuming Stras will need at lease 1 rehab start we need someone to start next Saturday in Cleveland (Karns? Stammen?)
It could be that Det will go without another rehab and that Stras will be ready without any rehab. If that's the case (god willing) then all this angst is unnecessary.
Sect222, good math and analysis. 95 wins would be great and its time to get a 10 game winning streak going to work towards that.
EmDash and David Proctor -- boy am I slower than you guys today or what? Price ofilyitsking.
Thanks all for straightening out the yellow hat on the golden sombrero there. Here's a couple more.
Ghost,
He has been but really none of the Rockies starters look like Wainright or Kershaw. They are kind off like the Twins in that regard. If the lineup is clicking we should score some runs.
BTW, Ramos being out is a bigger story than we think. We are getting almost no offense from the catching position, partly because Suzuki is likely over worked and partly because he is not a great offensive player. Solano gives you next to nothing on offense (he calls a nice game and his defense looks much better than last year).
That nothing has happened so far w/ Rodriguez doesn't mean a trade may be in the works. He cleared waivers so 29 teams didn't want him. Why should anybody want someone they could have had if they now have to give up something to get him? Especially because he is arbitration eligible this year. They gave Duke his release so he could get about the business of finding another team. With Ridriguez (that started out as a typo but I decided it fits) they are hoping against hope that someone change their mind.
Make that "price of multi-tasking incompetently on a smartphone."
JD, I'm all for that logic but always open for a Rizzo surprise. Detwiler threw a little more than a side session so I wouldn't be shocked if they gave him a 50 to 60 pitch count for Wednesday with Stammen behind him.
Ghost, 64-36 is 28 games over .500. That's quite a hot streak to have starting where we are now.
David Proctor, I thought Rizzo passed on Burnett based on the decreasing durability with the back injuries. I can't see anyone could have predicted an elbow injury. A shame.
Kilgore tweeted today that the Braves play the Mets or Marlins in 30 of their last 99 games. Ouch.
Sec 222,
I agree especially since it's hard to expect a hot streak before all the key players are back especially Stras and Harper and coupled with a long road trip this makes it quite a monumental task.
Not impossible but tough to imagine at this time. Quite a hole indeed. On the bright side I don't see Atlanta as invincible either; their best pitcher has been Mike Minor. I consider their rotation quite fragile and without Venters and O'Flaherty there will be tons of pressure on Kimbrel. I think they will take their lumps as well.
I think Rizzo didn't pay Burnett because you don't pay middle relievers a lot of money; they are fairly inter changeable. I think the 2 lefties we got going now will do just fine.
They play them one game at a time. I just want them to give it their best shot, and the Good Lord willing, things will work out.
FWIW, here's the latest on Harper from Kilgore:
"Bryce Harper visited renowned orthopedist Dr. James Andrews at his institute in Pensacola, Fla., for a second opinion on his swollen left knee this morning as scheduled. One person familiar with the visit said the injury that has sidelined Harper since May 27 will not lead to long-term damage. Further details about Harper’s short-term diagnosis or when he could return to the Nationals’ lineup remain unclear."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2013/06/10/bryce-harper-visits-dr-james-andrews-prognosis-unclear/
In other words (on Harper) -- "Answer unclear, ask again later."
From your lips (or keyboard actually) to the baseball gods' ears JD. The unknown here really is the Braves. They're on pace now to win 100 games. If they keep that up we are pretty obviously toast. I agree with you that a fall is likely. But how far?
The Nats were 38-24 after 62 games last year, a 99 win pace. They went 60-40 in their last 100 games to finish with 98 wins. 60-40 this time gets us 91 wins. I think I'd be pretty happy if they play that kind of baseball from here on in, get a WC berth and take whatever the crapshoot gives us in the playoffs.
Sec 222,
Me too. But I have the sinking feeling that the Pirates are not collapsing this year and the Reds are pretty damn good. Then there are the Giants.
It won't be easy.
Karns fastball is straight as a string. No movement whatsoever. Batters probably cannot wait to get the plate when he is pitching. Doesn't mean he can't get get to MLB, but he better come up with some serious breaking pitches or this will be his only cup of coffee.
And maybe we can help the ballclub.
Sec. 3, My Sofa said...
They play them one game at a time. I just want them to give it their best shot, and the Good Lord willing, things will work out.
June 10, 2013 5:48 PM
222 and JD, all reasonable speculation on the rest of the season. Just remember you can't predict baseball and -- more to the immediate point -- the Cards, Reds have to play the Pirates and Cards 23 more times, and the Pirates play the Cards and Reds 26 more times. Hard to keep up their current pace in that division.
"Theophilus T. S. said...
That nothing has happened so far w/ Rodriguez doesn't mean a trade may be in the works. He cleared waivers so 29 teams didn't want him."
Where was it announced that he cleared waivers? If he cleared waivers then the Nats would be announcing that he has been released like Duke was or that they've signed him back to a minor league deal. That they haven't announced anything yet is more idicative of multiple teams putting a claim in on him and that they're working on a trade.
Nats will continue their reverse losing streak tomorrow.
They have complered 4 of the 8 games in the predicted losing streak.
I see them at the beginning of a 20 of 27 game winning streak, then will be folliwed by 2 losses tgen another 12 of 19 or 32 of 46. Back in the hunt.
Bryce just tweeted "All good! #FinishIt"
Henry will be traded. Which player we get with the upside of AA is still to be determined. Kind of like choosing the last ears of corn in the bin, no matter which you choose you wont be happy.
David Proctor said...
Bryce just tweeted "All good! #FinishIt"
June 10, 2013 6:42 PM
______________________________
Good. Hope he is back to Opening Day form soon.
Opening day, but have others join the party.
Is Rendon in some way taking the role of Morse, with his smile, his obvious love of the game, and the enthusiasm he brings to the clubhouse?
Sean Burnett having elbow problems was very predictable. Recall that the best predictor for future injuries is previous injuries; Burnett had elbow surgery to remove chips in October. He also had TJ and shoulder surgery earlier in his career (which is why he is not a starter) and that is in addition to "manageable" back problems.
It is one thing to sign a starter with known problems (Haren)--and that may not work out. There are simply NOT a lot of healthy and skilled starters in the free agent market.
But to sign a reliever--and to sign him for two years--when there are so many other relievers available? You just need one year from Abad/Krol/Cedeno, then on to the next one(s) in 2014. Rizzo made the right call. That should also have been his thinking about a guy like Tracy. You got a reasonable 3/4 of a season out of him, be glad and go on to the next one.
You probably only have 5-7 years before JZ and/or Stras will need another TJ.
"You probably only have 5-7 years before JZ and/or Stras will need another TJ."
Probably? Do you have a crystal ball or some concrete facts that say 7 to 9 years between TJ surgeries.
Definition of PROBABLY: insofar as seems reasonably true, factual, or to be expected : without much doubt
Remaining Nats games:
PHI 16
NYM 14
MIA 13
ATL 9
COL 7
MIL 7
ARI 6
CHC 4
PIT 4
CLE 3
KCR 3
LAD 3
SDP 3
SFG 3
STL 3
DET 2
There must be alot of people here with Medical backgrounds. They know it all on Bryces condition as well as knowing Burnett was going to have more elbow issues.
Amen to sec3 and 1a
Nats128, burnetts elbow was predictable; there was a great article about free agent relievers who sign elsewhere and how their health suffers with ther next contract. Sort of waiting for he same to happen with Haren's back.
SCNatsFan, if it was so predictable, where were the posts here prior to the season that stated so. I saw a bunch of people whining that the Nats didnt resign Burnett.
What is the great article?
I don't believe ibstinctively who will get injured and who won't based on new contracts
"NatsLady said...
yes, but we knew about Burnett's surgery. So Rizzo could have factored that in, but he didn't.
December 05, 2012 6:57 PM"
Heres all I found on the day Burnett signed with the Angels.
I dont see any predictions on more elbow issues just that he had the surgery to remove bone chips.
Driving home from NJ this afternoon, it struck me what a wonderful day it was to not be at a ball game.
Don't say that very often...
Well, I wasn't one of them. Never thought Burnett or Gonzalez should be re-signed, and was indifferent about Gorzy. That's different from agreeing that Duke should have been the only lefty in the pen.
King of odd , though, that Lannan has been on the DL for the first time in his career- and for a long time. Burnett is having issues, Morse has had regular dings. Lannan was super healthy here.
"NatsLady said...
Sean Burnett having elbow problems was very predictable."
This is the statement today. Very predictable? If you did predict it then Im impressed. Just wondering before this season where it was predicted. I read that entire thread and nobody predicted it before he went on the DL.
I do think we heard things about bone chips. Not really a shock that it might be more complicated. Don't these guys get physicals before they sign contracts???
I thought Burnett should have been resigned. He didn't cost a lot but then again it would surprise me if Rizzo was scared away by the back issues and bone chip removal after going through that with Storen.
I don't recall predicting Burnett's injury in October. I said TODAY that it was predictable, in the sense that he has the factors that predict pitcher injures (age, heavy use, history of injuries). That doesn't mean I can predict this particular injury,k only that the risk was high and that I agreed with Rizzo's decision. I've said OFTEN that Burnett was not a good risk, particulary for two years. I said that several times, including in a blog post, and just about every time someone criticized Rizzo on the Burnett issue.
Meant "wouldn't surprise me"
Nats128 I wasn't one of them. When Burnett signed on the cheap I had more faith in Rizzo's assessment then what the board said. While not predictable wasn't unexpected.
Actually, you didn't need to predict anything about Burnett's elbow - you just needed to ask him about it. I had a chance encounter with him 2 days after Game 5, and after a quick chat about Storen's state of mind, and then thanking him and all the Nats for such a great season, I asked him about his elbow. He shrugged and said something like "it'll be fine", which was basically saying to me that it wasn't fine at the moment.
I'm not saying that meant that he would definitely have issues this year, but he was hurting at the end of last year.
He would not be the first guy to under- state his physical condition.
Lannan's injury was not predictable in my thoughts, meaning he is younger, doesn't have history, and certainly was not overused, at least not in 2012.
Morse also has an injury history and is not young. He has some of the "predictive" factors, so it's not surprising, but unless you want to say he leans in, you couldn't expect the broken pinkie. It could be that because of the pinkie meaning that he was in and out of the lineup and so he was not in top condition and that led to the muscle issue. However, I'm not willing to say that because who knows at this distance what he did in the M's training regimen.
Thanks for the explanation NatsLady. There was alot of whining by others to keep Burnett threwout the Hot Stove.
Natslady, I get what you were trying to say about pitchers and injuries. Given your excellent turn of phrase on demonstrated on your blog, I am surprised that instead of "predictable", you didn't choose to use the milder "unforeseeable".
Its funny about predicting. There were a few that said Henry would be DFA'd and then when he was a bunch jumped in and said of course he would be DFA'd. Where were they saying that in April or even May. Where were those figuring Espi would be gone and Rendon indeed would play 2nd base.
"No one predicted it before he went on the DL." Well, maybe not, because like the Nats, the Angels kept him off the DL and kept saying he was "managing it." However, I did REPORT his health many times on this blog, along with Michael Gonzalez' ineffectiveness and Gorzy also being on the DL (though Gorzy was effective and he is off the DL now).
As I've said many times, I wouldn't have gone for Burnett at the price, or Gonzalez at all. I was indifferent to Gorzy, understanding that Duke was a cheaper alternative. That didn't work out, but seemed reasonable at the time. During the course of spring training I reported extensively on Abad, Ohlendorf and company, and I thought, along with Davey, that Abad could make the team, but there was no spot for him.
So about Lannan. I know he is a Phil now, and so the enemy, but he was a Nat for a very long time. I thought he had a little tweaked knee or something. He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. It's a shame.
ehay2k, I think thats the point in the choice of words. I think if some other posters made that post they would be skewered for it and thats my point.
If you think it, say it. People did say it about Dan Haren about his back and the price to sign him. Others loved the move.
The one difficult part of playing armchair GM is not having doctors opinions and predictive actuarials.
Sorry, I could have used a different term, or left out the "very", but I was at work and responding to someone who said Burnett's elbow injury was "unpredictable."
I don't think it was "unpredictable" in the sense that he had all the risk factors. Sometimes they say there is a 90% chance of rain and you would say they "predicted" rain--but it doesn't rain. I didn't give a percent chance on Burnett going on the DL, but let's just say, I would have said there was way more chance of him going on it than Lannan.
Since I didn't look at either pitcher's medical records, I am just going by what is public knowledge.
Nats 128 - there were several people here who were upset enough that Espinosa hid his shoulder injury last year that they (myself included) thought he should get surgery and miss a good part of the season. However, had he not this year broken his wrist, he might still be starting. Breaking his wrist was not foreseeable. Henry being wild, not holding runners, wilting under pressure - that was not only predictable, it was a pretty safe bet.
We are all amateurs here and our favorite sport is second guessing. It kind of comes with the territory.
On Haren, I neither loved nor hated the move. I assume Rizzo did due diligence and also knew that despite all assurances and MRIs, there is a substantial risk with Haren. However, there was not a lot on the market, and Rizzo wanted a one year deal and not to give up the draft pick.
If a guy is cheap then it's easier to take a chance on him. Now if you paid 15 million to Joe Blanton , who is healthy, and who has maybe won a game? Then you have a problem. Former great pitcher, who might still have something left and is affordable? Ok, why not try it? Not like affordable guys grow on trees. No guarantees your expensive pitcher won't get in a fight snd break his collarbone. No guarantees at all .
"NatsLady said...
Sorry, I could have used a different term, or left out the "very", but I was at work and responding to someone who said Burnett's elbow injury was "unpredictable."
"
Gotcha. I would say with 99% certainty that the back or elbow was going to bark on him and he would miss time.
Not sure how predictable this new revelation is that he would have to see Dr. Andrews and possibly the elbow issues would become serious.
Age has to be a factor along with the cash and length of contract. Very few FAs that are over 30 years old work out.
"baseballswami said...
We are all amateurs here and our favorite sport is second guessing. It kind of comes with the territory"
Yes, tho some are right none of the times and a few are right a lot of the times and thats why this place is the place to come to.
One poster predicted 4 2nd baseman who could take Espinosas place. Thats like saying the Opening Day starter would be Strasburg, Gio, Jordan, Detwiler or Haren.
It's amazing how you guys are pros at commenting on the players before bashing please get the facts first you have know idea what is wrong with Sean
Maybe he should of never rushed back to soon so please get facts before judging
Jim Salisbury@JSalisburyCSN5m
Erik Kratz to undergo surgery for torn meniscus
Nats should have kept 1 of the 3, either Burnett,Gonzo or Gorzo.
"Steamer said...
It's amazing how you guys are pros at commenting on the players before bashing please get the facts first you have know idea what is wrong with Sean
June 10, 2013 9:45 PM"
Exactly my point. It is hopefully nothing serious.
I don't ever wish an injury on anyone.
so the fact that 29 teams did not sign Henry, clearly his speed on his fast ball did not impress anyone
more importantly, it seems that not one manager among those 29 teams feels Henry will have command of his pitches
mick, 30 teams want Henry and that includes the Nats. They all hope to get him on a AAA deal.
Trying to catch up on the discussion...
I wanted Rizzo to resign both Burnett and Gorzy... Was wicked pissed that he didnt...
I wanted Rizzo and DJ to part ways with Wang and HRod last year... Was wicked pissed when I found out HRod made the roster...
I wanted Rizzo to resign EJax... Was wicked pissed and hated (I think I still do) the Haren signing...
I wanted Rizzo to work out a deal to keep Adam LaRoche... Was totally happy about this...
I wanted Rizzo to sign Span and let Morse go... Was totally happy that happened....
Did I miss anything?
@PNats42 place LHP Sammy Solis on the disabled list
Nats 128 ok
Yeah, maybe Rizzo did know something about the elbow... I wish Burnett the best.... He seemed to be doing well prior to the injury...
Haven't heard too much on Gorzy... Heard MG was doing a terrible job...
And I thought I heard that Wang signed with a team today... The BLue Jays maybe?
Ankiel catch on anywhere yet?
Tampa Bay was losing 6-0 against Boston. Now 6-6 bottom of the 9th.
I hear they had a little dust up earlier, too. Missed it.
Swami - we should pick him and say bye bye to Tracy.... *snickers*
Hope it isn't the arm on Solis
Ghost- did you answer me about Gomes and then disappear like an actual ghost?
This is the report that has been made public, Steamer. More than that we don't know, and are just guessing. It could be that he was rushed back, wouldn't be the first time.
Angels reliever Sean Burnett has been limited to just 13 appearances this season due to forearm and elbow injuries. And he’s still looking for answers.
According to Alden Gonzalez of MLB.com, Burnett paid a visit to Dr. James Andrews today for the second time in the past five weeks. Angels manager Mike Scioscia said the purpose of the visit was just to “make sure he’s moving in the right direction,” but the left-hander hasn’t progressed beyond throwing on flat ground.
Burnett, who had two bone spurs removed from his elbow during the offseason, landed on the disabled list at the end of April with forearm inflammation. He returned a month later, but appeared in just two games before hitting the disabled list again, this time with a left elbow impingement.
Coming off a 2.38 ERA in 70 appearances last season with the Nationals, the Angels signed Burnett to a two-year, $8 million contract in December. They’re hoping to get more out of their investment soon. Angels’ relievers are 13th in the majors this season with a 4.25 ERA.
They are in a rain delay in Ballmer and they had Dave Johnson come on and talk about his son Steve who is on the DL. Apparently Steve concealed that he was hurting during warmups because he wanted to get in the game (in relief) in Houston. So now he has a 3 cm tear in his oblique. Previous to that he had a lat strain coming out of spring training. Before that the only time he had been on the DL was years back when he was in the minors, with a "mild hamstring," which he mentioned to trainers, saying he needed to miss one start. He was on the DL for two months and swore he would never speak to a trainer again. Steve Johnson is a marginal pitcher trying to make the club--but his father totally disapproved of him concealing his injuries. Very revealing interview, more than you usually hear.
Here is the article about predicting baseball injuries. It made quite a stir.
Baseball injuries
It's clear that the biggest risk factor for injury is previous injury. How big? Turns out the answer is "very."
... a previous DL trip makes a pitcher about eight times more likely to land on the DL this season. But even at that, the rate at which previous disabled list visitors go back on is lower than 50 percent. A pitcher with an injury history is not a certainty to get injured, just a much higher risk. Let me also point out that my model is rather unsophisticated, but a better model would require medical training (which I don't have) and medical knowledge (which is not public).
So "very" was an exaggeration on my part. Let's just say, "not surprising."
But, in my defense, I did get the "very" from the article... which I had read through a couple of times and it has influenced my thinking on the matter.
Swami, that's strange as my posts seem to disappear sometimes. I said it was a Johnny Gomes meet & greet at homeplate.
Venable 3 run HR
Fantastic picture of the fog delay in Chicago. Padres are bashing Teheran.
Fog
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/10/picture-of-the-day-fog-at-u-s-cellular-field/
No one wants to win at the trop.
NatsLady, thanks for the stuff about Steve Johnson.
I feel bad for Steve Johnson. His father is really a jerk. Good kid. Wish him well.
Hey all - sorry I've been a way for a few days. Enough life stuff that I didn't feel up to dealing with the Neganons and the LoD. And I see that they are still out in force. Quelle surprise (that there is French). Although there's a lot of doom and gloom about the State of the Nats, here's some fuel for thought from a longtime baseball fan: I remember 1978.
In 1978, on July 17, the Yankees were 47-42 and 14 games behind the 61-28 Red Sox. The Red Sox went 38-35 the rest of the season – not great, but pretty good. And certainly not a collapse. But the Yankees ran them down anyway, going 52-21 over the final 73 games. It can be done.
And what people often forget is that the Yankees passed the Red Sox, taking a 3.5 game lead with just 15 to play. The Yankees went 9-6 (.600) over the last 15 games. Despite that, the Red Sox went 12-3 and caught the Yankees! They forced another tie on the last day of the season, which is what set the stage for the Bucky Dent game.
That doesn't mean that I'm happy about a .500 record or the 7.5 game deficit. It's not going to be easy to run the Braves down. But it's certainly not impossible. That kind of deficit is made up virtually every year in baseball by someone. The trick is to be the team that is doing the catching and not the team doing the folding. You know, like the 2011 Atlanta Braves. With less than three weeks to go in the season (September 9), the Braves were 84-60 and had a 7.5 game lead (hmm, that margin sounds familiar … ) over the 76-67 Cardinals in the Wild Card race. The Cardinals didn't even need a play-in game to pass the Braves.
Anyone can be negative; negative is easy. Never Give Up. Never Surrender!
Good to see you back, John C.!!
Swami, that's strange as my posts seem to disappear sometimes.
Ironic. Maybe you should consider changing your handle. Don't laugh, it worked for Tampa Bay.
The Braves are losing big to the Padres.
David, Marquis pitched well for San Diego against Atlanta. He may go to 8-2 on the season.
Hope you're well, John C.
Gattis 3 run homer. 7-5 Pads now in the top of the 9th, one out.
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