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Associated Press photo Edwin Jackson didn't allow an earned run over eight dominant innings. |
The national discussion about the Nationals' rotation has been focused on Strasburg, with perhaps a little bit of love sprinkled in for Jordan Zimmermann and Gio Gonzalez. All the while, Edwin Jackson has quietly gone about his business, churning out innings and getting stronger and more effective as the regular season reaches its final month.
"People keep talking about Stras. You know, Edwin Jackson is a heck of a pitcher," Jayson Werth said following Thursday night's 8-1 triumph over the Cardinals. "He's a big-game pitcher. He won big games last year, late in the year, in the postseason. Take Stras out and put Edwin in. I like it."
What's not to like? With eight dominant innings Thursday night against the NL's most productive lineup, Jackson continued his late-August surge and carried the Nationals to a rousing victory in the opener of an 11-game homestand.
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124 comments:
GREAT WIN!!! Let's do another one tomorrow.
You know it will be a good night when EJax makes it through the 1st with "good stuff".
Interesting comments from Jackson specifically on "Pitch to contact"
K's just happen!
http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/v11_videodetail?PID=1iMLTB-bNiZnKmxPxjknh3VJMfzJzdjQL7I03aO
Off topic but Kilgore says Stras stayed late at Marlins Park after getting shelled by the Marlins. He analyzed his performance with Suzuki and Randy Knorr. No mention of McCatty. Hmmmm . . .
Knorr controls running game both offensively and defensive
ly according to either Charles or Dave.
Rizzo, thanks for saving Stras arm for the Yankee years. If we dont win these year is ok , since Rizzo never expect to happen , and dont prepare for this. After we spend all that money going to the games in the bad years, Rizzo telling us to keep waiting .
NatsNut, give me the Jayson Werth who is getting on-base at a .400 clip in the lead-off.
The way he sees lots of pitches and frustrates the pitchers will play into the hands of Bryce Harper who is getting hot again.
Jimmy Rollins was pulled again last night after not running out a popup. Charlie Manual pulled no punches after the game.
Manny Acta had the same issue with his catcher Santana.
Food for thought.... If Nats win tonight it is win number 80.
This would be 80 wins, at least 5 and a half up going into Sept 1... who would have thunk it, lol
Gonat... looking at the standings, it is not far fetched to see the Phillies catching fire, passing both Pirates and Cards for a Wild Card. The problem with my scenario is Nats play Phillies 6 more times which means they, the Phillies would probably have to win both sseries.
NatsJack...I think what Lannan has done in both starts for Nats can not be under estimated... looking forward to seeing John in September
five out of ten series for phillies against serious contenders, braves, reds, and nats.
astros on the other hand, are likely to be the first team since 2003 Tigers to win less than 50 games in a season. They are at 40 wins right now and will have to win at least ten or more (which they have done twice this season but won exactly eight games in last two months) to get past 50.
NatsJack... your probably right and I never thought about how many had to collapse
Faraz Shaikh interesting
That's right NatsJack. both Rays and Cards were top wild card contenders.
OK gang, what time tomorrow are the rosters expanded, is it all 15 over night or over a few days? maybe peric can best answer this one and of course.... other than Lannan and Brown, what other players are joining us?
Fast Eddie,
Per Amanda's Article, McCatty was with them.
here is the Link:
Stras after loss
Davey is on record as saying he only needs another middle infielder, back-up catcher and pinch-runner. The rest of the call-ups will join an extended Goon Squad and get little to no playing time.
that makes sense.... does Garcia and Perez get any playing time?
Eury Perez is raking
Sept. 1 begins at midnight. You probably won't see players brought up before their minor league season ends after this weekend, for whomever is coming.
I want to thank the Nats for losing almost all of their games while I was away on vacation so I wasn't tempted to spend my time reading all the commentary here. And for playing so well last night as I returned so I was hardly tempted at all to switch over to the RNC. I'll be back at NatsPark tonight, hoping that the newly revived offense is for real because Wainwright is a really good pitcher (Garcia really isn't).
I did spend some time in airports reading the comments about the game two nights ago and wanted to point out something about the Harper ejection that didn't seem to get much notice. At least on the replay on the little screen on my iPhone, it appeared that the helmet bounced and almost hit CB Buckner. In fact, as some noted, he didn't really see the helmet being thrown at all. But he certainly noticed it as it rebounded very close to his feet.
In light of that, I'm not surprised Harper was tossed and I don't have a problem with the call at all. It's one thing to punish your equipment in frustration (maybe they shouldn't but lots of players do it and don't get tossed), it's quite another to punish it and endanger others. Not that a bouncing helmet is much of a danger, but a splintering bat sure is and Harper probably should have been tossed for that too. Let's hope this ejection finally scares Harper straight on these silly outbursts.
Ok, I'm back in the swing of things. Can't wait for tonight.
Hard to see Eury like I said a month ago being any more than a pinch runner and a pinch bunter.
ha, I just came back from tracking down the Comak report on the battery's staying after class, but I see that Michele beat me to it. Well done.
Nice win last night, and Edwin looked great. Reminded me of that complete game of his earlier in the season. Was great to see the shout-out for Lannan on the broadcast as well. Wish I could get out there sooner than Monday but I don't know that I can talk my hubby into picking up another weekend game. :-)
Jimmy Rollins back to being the center of anger in Philly. I hope he once again calls them frontrunners.
I saw him Livo to 1st on the popup. Supposedly third time he has done it and this time the popup was dropped.
Dysfunction in Philly, who would have thunk it.
PSA:
If you don't have tickets for tonight or Sunday, there's a promotion for half-off the cheap seats. Type "CAPDEAL" into the promo code box for
$9 - Upper Infield Gallery
$15 - LF/RF Mezzanine
$18 - LF/RF Corner
Tickets on sale until 4:30pm Friday (Aug 31 game) and 10:30am Sunday (Sept 2 game)
Michele:
Thanks for setting the record straight on McCatty being in the Stras post-game analysis session. Kilgore didn't mention him in his article.
Probably Maya too for low-leverage innings, since they're paying him anyway.
82 wins would be the Nats record, but it would take 96 for the franchise one. I think that's possible, perhaps even likely. 17-15 would be a lackluster finish for this squad. But the goal would be the division, then the best NL record, obviously.
Nats biggest need on September 1st is bullpen arms. The big story is what happens to HenRod.
It was so great being there last night! One thing we noticed that hasn't popped up anywhere was when Bryce walked back to the dugout after being called out on first, he kicked the dirt on the warning track some. It made our whole chunk of fans go, "aw!" And EJax was in a ZONE!
It's so nice to wake up and there's still baseball, and they are still playing well. You walk in the park, and that flag is still at the top of the pole, where it's been almost all season.
They have a web service in the regular seats now, where you can order food and drink to come to you. Problem is, as we all know: NO GETTING ONLINE! You can read twitter, and you can text, but posting to NI is impossible these days, and I never got the "seat service" site to load. Just wondered if anyone here had the same experience? I will say that once I get to my seat, I don't leave unless it's an emergency. ANyway....go NATS!
Ken Rosenthal with another Boras-hate article today on Stras.
The hate runneth over.
222.....and for the record, just about all of us were in favor of Bryce getting tossed.
At the time, I too thought the helmet bouncing past startled Bucknor, and that's why he reacted. Just my impression. Oh, and that look Bryce gets in his eyes sometimes--I remembered last night where I've seen it before. Mike Tyson.
Hate on the guy like a slimy defense attorney, but Boras is really good at his job.
That's the thing about defense, everybody hates it until it's you he's defending.
Yeah, JaneB, I know what you mean. They're playing so well, I barely have to drink at all to get through a game.
where is KenR's article? I couldn't find it at msn.
NJ, yeah, I saw that most were in favor. Not all though, and a few commenters were unnecessarily harsh on Buckner, comparing him to Angel, JoeW, LazD etc. for wanting to make the game about him. In this instance he simply didn't deserve the criticism.
Kind of sad the Nats need to serve up all these ticket deals for a weekend series vs. the playoff contending Cards. Must be the holiday or something.
Faraz, I think it's this one.
C'mon, we're complaining now about getting half-price tix?
JaneB, re. the flags: to think that early in the season, I had my husband take a pic of it because "you don't know how long it will be up there." heh.
Re. communications at the park: my not-so-smart phone is good mainly for texting at the ballpark, and I don't do it all that much - mainly to check in with baseball buddies I'm meeting or to send my player of the game vote. That's okay because trying to watch the game and keep score is about all I can handle at once. :-)
Thanks to sec3 for the tix discount info, although it's more about the time commitment for the hubster.
NatsJack. Rosenthal is going to catch hell for that article.
Jack, FWIW, I thought it read like a cheap shot, myself.
Although, cheap shots at powerful people should usually get a pass, I think. So there's that.
Well, imho, this part in particular is hogwash:
"With that, there would have been no story, nothing to distract from the Nationals’ brilliant season"
Because they would have just found something else to stir the pot about. Well, this pot is refusing to be stirred, so there! Yawn. :-)
thanks guys. reading it right now.
nice response on that tweet NatsJack.
eh, one can make a point without taking a cheap shot, regardless of whether the target is powerful. Cheap shots say more about the shooter than the shootee, as it were. imho.
NatsJack..Don't think your reply went back to Ken.
great feedback on the rosters
Sec.3, My Sofa said...
Faraz, I think it's this one.
August 31, 2012 9:54 AM
That's the one. I'm glad you all are pissed after reading it. The guy is a hater because he is an insider with all the agents but Boras. The 2 have a history together and basically you don't cross Boras but unfortunately Kenny has the power of the pen and is sticking it to the Nats and Stras because of Boras.
Of course Kenny acts like he is being objective. Yah, whatever.
I think one of the things that is funny about all the National media blowing this out of proportion with Stras is that they get hammered by Nats fans and it dies down. ESPN has tried to get fans to take the bait and everyone backs Rizzo.
So in a way, our resonable responses and defense of Rizzo is a major buzz kill for the Media. I like that.
Gonna be hard to keep the best record in MLB for the next few days... (We actually got it back .608 to the Reds' .606). Reds get the Stros (who may not win another game this season).
Their schedule is Astros, Fils, Astros (again);
Other than the Astros, their schedule is rsimilar to ours, Cubs, Brewers, Marlins, Dodgers, and final series against the Cards.
They also have six against the Pirates (home and away). If the Pirates can hang in there, I'd say we have a good shot at finishing with the better record. Can't believe I'm scoreboard watching like this!!!
Good point, Michele.
So in a way, our resonable responses and defense of Rizzo is a major buzz kill for the Media. I like that.
"Oh, and that look Bryce gets in his eyes sometimes--I remembered last night where I've seen it before. Mike Tyson."
Heh, heh. I love that attitude, the new Natitude. Contrast his body language with Rollins. I know Harp will mature and mellow, but I hope he takes his time about it. The vets don't want to look bad dogging it when a 19-year-old rookie is going all out, all the time.
My favorite part of last night's game was Harp's AB in the 6th, with runners on 1st and 3rd. The Cards saw what he can do with a FB in the 1st inning, so their reliever throws him a junk change-up on the outside of the zone. Harp did not ry to kill it, this time. He just dialed it back and took a well-timed swing to poke a soft liner over the SS's head into left center for an RBI single.
If he keeps hitting like that, he will bat over .300 the rest of the way. He has reprogrammed his approach at the plate. In a later AB, he took another outside pitch and hit a liner to deep left. It was caught for an out, but he is putting balls in play, now, on pitches that he used to swing at, wildly, and miss.
The Cyborg is back. At just the right time.
Is it me, or do the Nats hurlers (excepting GIO) alway seem to do better with JFlo calling the game? Last night, Flo and EJax were dominating the Cards - 10 Ks.
Danny Rouhier on 106.7 spent his first 1/2 hour on nothing but Nats. This is great. I think the rest of the show will be mostly Redskins but its progress.
He starts the show by describing the play where Bryce is playing shallow against a Cards player (couldn't remember his name) who is like the Little League kid who wears blue jeans to the game instead of baseball pants and the outfielders all play him shallow and further describes the Cards player as the girl in a co-ed softball game that everyone plays shallow.
Then the player gets hold of one and Harper gets back on it to catch the ball.
That's exactly how I would say it Paul Blair style - except when he did it against Cliff Lee he (and the team) got burned.
I would rather see him playing a little more conservative. There is more chance of getting burned than stealing away a single in my opinion but I have to say, I enjoyed Danny Rouhier starting his radio show discussing that play.
Speaking only for myself, I don't care all that much about maintaining the best record in MLB. I care more about maintaining a lead in the division (and, of course, the p-p-pl, uh, yeah, that).
JaneB, I have a wifi card I bring with me to games. That way I can be online if I want, but I rarely do as my attention is more focused on the game than NI or Twitter. Don't laugh. Here is what I bring to games:
- wifi card
- cell phone
- ipod
- tablet computer
- binoculars
- cane or walking-stick
- sweater
- blanket
- scorebook
- backup power supply; cords for all devices
- sunscreen and bugspray
- Clip jersey
- pens, pencils
- ticket (+Metro card, $$, keys etc.)
Not a light traveler. Never have been.
Laddie, Harp's RBI single is exactly how he won a game with a walk-off single earlier in the season.
Unfortunately that play can be defensed if they play the LF shallower if they decide to pound him on the outside with off-speed then Bryce would have to adjust and try to hit it over the LF's head going oppo boppo.
Ghost, doesn't Werth like to play shallow? (He's gotten burned a couple of times since coming back and I wondered if he shouldn't player deeper until his legs are completely "under him"). I would guess Bryce is taking his cues from Jayson.
Emotionally, I want the Nats to have the best record in the NL. But logically, maybe being the number 2 isn't bad.
The way the divisions stand today, as the number one the Nats would get either the Cards or the Braves, while the Reds play the Giants. I know that either team that wins the wild card play-in would be a bit depleted, but the Cards and the Braves are both pretty formidable.
On the other hand, if the Nats were the 2 seed, they'd be playing the Giants more likely than not. That's been a better match-up for the Nationals this season.
I never thought I'd be considering all these kinds of things! It's pretty awesome.
JaneB -- we should have dropped by last night! Lynn and I were in ASG half price seats near our usual in 135.
Re the mobile ordering, two things. One is that friends elsewhere in the Park last night used it and said the food came really quickly but there was an unmentioned 15% service charge on top of the already steep ballpark prices. Caveat emptor.
Second, if you want to try it, you might try the MLB "At the Ballpark" app, which has a function for "Order Food and Drink". I assume but don't know for sure that that's the same function as the Mobile Ordering website.
I've had the same cellphone Internet access issues as everyone else, but maybe using that MLB app would work at your seats. I've gotten more reliable wifi access via "Guest" on the 1st level concessions concourse -- which of course defeats the benefits of mobile ordering.
Read the article. Complete drek. And a day after he wrote an insightful one about the O's.
Bottom line is, I don't care how much influence Boras has with Rizzo and vice-versa. The Nats are in FIRST PLACE, and a lot of the credit is probably due to both of them, Boras for sending his clients here and Rizzo for signing them. Rosenthal is obviously on the outside looking in, and doesn't like it, so stirs up trouble whenever he can.
"Unfortunately that play can be defensed if they play the LF shallower if they decide to pound him on the outside with off-speed then Bryce would have to adjust and try to hit it over the LF's head going oppo boppo."
True, but that then leaves them open to the kind of deep liner he hit to left later in the game. They can counter one possibility, but not both. I have a very good feeling the kid is about to go on a tear. He probably won't catch Conigliaro, but he could very well pass Ott, and almost certainly will out-HR Junior.
Nats only need to worry about continuing to win as winning the Division is the goal. The Wild Card is not how you want to get in. If the Nats end up with the best record, great. If not, they can't control what the Reds are doing.
Keep your eye on the prize (win the Division).
NatsJack,
AT the end of the day, who gives a s*** what Ken Rosenthal or for that matter anyone else thinks?
I listened to David Cone on the Steven A Smith show last week and he was actually furious at Rizzo for shutting down Stras basically saying that the Nats have no proof that extended use will harm him.
Firstly of all I don't understand his agenda here. If the Nats fans are behind Rizzo on this why does every one else feel so invested in this?
Secondly, who the heck do all these guys think they are elevating themselves to experts? have any of the talking heads studied historical data? have they spoken with Dr. Mathews, Dr Yochum? have they looked at MRI's?
I bet you dollars to doughnuts that Rizzo has done his homework here. Allowing Stras to continue would have been the easy way out for him. Heck the managers and GM's who ruined Prior's career are still working.
Good points about the seeding, Melissa.
On Harper, I liked FP's story about the kid sitting next to him on the plane and observing that he'd passed the Mick. Also, Tater Trot update for sec 222 and other interested parties. Harper beat his personal best time last night.
"Hey everybody! How about 2 straight games with no stolen bases against us, huh!?"
Tough to steal 2nd base after you've just struck out. Only 2 walks and only 4 measly hits, plus they were several runs behind almost from the start, and they are not a running team, anyway.
Give EJax some credit for holding them on, but the game situation made it unlikely for them to try and steal, especially since they don't have many guys who are good at it.
#ShowIWon'tListenTo:
MLB Network Radio @MLBNetworkRadio
Join #InsidePitch @ 3:30pmET/11:30am PT for Roundtable Discussion on Shutdown of Stephen Strasburg.@TommyLasorda, Lidge, Riggleman,and more!
Laddie, I think teams will go back to pounding Harp on the outside and play him normal depth until they have a situational play on.
Once he can cover the outside with power ala Morse or Zim, it may be a while before he sees much pounding inside.
As locked in as Harp is, hoping for that Oppo Taco!
NatsLady beat me to it.
Anyone that has MLB Radio, PLEASE listen and let us know what the discussion is.
There seem to be a few Nats fans (a decided minority) who are "against" the shutdown. Other than those people, who are invested and presumably buying tickets, I don't give a pin for "opinions."
Rosenthal's article makes no sense at all. How is he delving into Rizzo's psyche to determine Rizzo wants to be "off the hook." If you've watched Rizzo at all, you've seen that he puts himself ON the hook to shield players and Davey. For example, when JZ hit Hamels in retribution for Hamels hitting Bryce, Rizzo went all "macho man" and look who didn't get suspended--Jordan Zimmermann.
And I really don't get the vitriol from non-Nats fans. What is it, exactly, that Rizzo is depriving them of?
MicheleS, I have nothing against Lasorda but can't imagine Riggleman and Lidge have anything to contribute to the discussion except sour grapes....
"I bet you dollars to doughnuts that Rizzo has done his homework here. Allowing Stras to continue would have been the easy way out for him. Heck the managers and GM's who ruined Prior's career are still working."
Well-stated, with the added virtue of being true. Give all the credit in the world to Rizzo for putting the interests of his player and the team ahead of avoiding the flak coming his way from commentators with no skin in the game, and no career to lose.
Cardinals will go the rest of the series and possibly the season without Furcal. Yadier Molina still seems to have lingering issues from the blow to the head against the Pirates.
Ghost of Steve M has it exactly right at 10:46 a.m.; you don't want to be in the 'play-in' game -- I just can't call it the playoffs -- but you can't really control whether you're the first, second, or third seed. And given that teams often are on hot streaks heading into the playoffs (viz. last year's Cardinals, the Rockies of a few years back), even the team coming out of the play-in game may be a team you don't want to face until you really have to. There's just no way of predicting that. Focus on winning the division, avoid distractions (e.g., the Strasburg saga), stay healthy, and GYFNG!
I'm also in the "don't give a pin for opinions" category but, fwiw, a recent Bog item had Riggleman backing the shutdown.
The great thing about MLB Network also televising your team is their technology and different perspective.
They showed EJax's slider in freeze frames just falling off of the table. The batters were reacting as a fastball and couldn't adjust their swing as the bottom fell out.
Contrast JZim's tight slider with late break that induces grounders and poor contact and a few swing and misses.
Another great time for the Nats to shine on National TV.
(er, speaking of Prior)
NatsLady said...
Read the article. Complete drek. And a day after he wrote an insightful one about the O's.
Rosenthal got his start as an O's beat writer for the Baltimore Sun. Which means that he not only has an anti-Nationals bias, he has an anti-Washington bias since he had to compete with the Washington Post who were also covering the O's at the time as "their team."
Ghost
"Laddie, I think teams will go back to pounding Harp on the outside and play him normal depth until they have a situational play on.
Once he can cover the outside with power ala Morse or Zim, it may be a while before he sees much pounding inside."
You are undoubtedly right about that. Harp has been waiting for those FBs, and has demonstrated, conclusively, why it is really, really dumb to give him one to hit. His performance last night and in Miami, where he hit with authority to LF, has given me cause to believe he is finally adjusting to the slow, outside breaking stuff.
He has only been at it for a few games. I think we are just seeing the beginning of what he will do with those pitches, in the future. I am optimistic about how that eventually will play out. He certainly has enough pop to reach the LF seats, with any pitch, if he can square it up. Making good contact is a very promising start.
It is going to be fun watching that kid as he realizes all that potential.
BTW.. Avery is on MLB Radio and would be curious as to what he and Lidge have to say. Riggleman has already stated his in in Rizzo's camp.
I love watching the Kid.
I've winced at some of his antics -- bashing his eyebrow on the recoil, smashing his bat at the plate and throwing his helmet -- but I'm 50 and I realize he's still 19 years old.
By all accounts he's a decent felliow from a fine family. His mistakes are on the field -- not off of the field -- and they come from a good place, a burning desire to win.
Through Davey, Zim and Werth Bryce will learn to temper his passionate displays. Meanwhile, we can enjoy his great talent and what it promises for the future.
It's thrilling, isn't it?
Thanks Eugene. I just think you can only control what is in front of you. The Nats don't play the Reds or Giants any more in the regular season.
The best situation is the Nats and Reds with the 2 best records and having a showdown in the NLCS.
No offense to the Reds and their fans but outside of Cueto the Reds don't have the arms the Nats do and their reliance on Aroldis Chapman at some point will disappoint as his arm racks up the innings (just ask the Barves). Last year Aroldis threw 50 innings and now he is at 64 innings and counting - not a good recipe in my opinion. They are a good offensive team that has been on a roll.
Good pitching beats good hitting.
MicheleS said...
BTW.. Avery is on MLB Radio and would be curious as to what he and Lidge have to say. Riggleman has already stated his in in Rizzo's camp.
August 31, 2012 11:14 AM
Avery is the one you want to hear. No clue what Lidge will say. Riggleman went thru Kerry Wood and never wants anyone to live the guilt he has felt about that for the last 14 years.
did you guys know Rudy Giuliani commented on shutdown during Meet the Press? and Terry Bradshaw and troy Aikman as well? I did not know. This is getting ridiculous.
FWIW, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell supports Rizzo in the StrasNoMas.
No clue what Lidge will say.
Lidge is on record saying that a big reason for his flameout and ultimate DFA this season is that he came back too soon from his injury. So it would seem he'd be in favor of an approach that puts doctor's recommendations and consideration of a player's health above the "win at all cost" mentality.
Faraz, I think everyone wants to get in on it. I'm waiting for Romney or Obama to comment on it for a good laugh.
pRAA, good perspective on that. It seems the only ones on the other side of the arguement are looking for "shock jock" value like the idiot Dibble and Kenny is just doing it to poke Boras. Aikman and Bradshaw? Do they even know who Strasburg is?
I bet one of the presidential debates will be strasburg shutdown, even if he is shutdown by that time.
And NatsJack made another excellent point. The Nats shut down Meyer after 130 innings. This is how the Nats operate; it's consistent and it's based on doing everything possible to maximize a pitcher's health.
NatsJack, I would take Latos circa 2011 although he's looking better now with all that run support!
Is Ryan Mattheus not the biggest goof? Love the guy and have to think he would make a great mime after baseball.
http://www.natsenquirer.com/2012/08/nats-bullpen-waving-to-themselves-on-tv.html
New Post
Can somebody explain to me why Rizzo did not found a way for Stras to finish the season? The way it look we are going to lose our # 1 with almost 3 weeks left in the season and no division won yet . If Stras developed any issue during the season and have to go to the disable list that was the end? Even in May, June, and July? Because he can miss a start? Rizzo position is incredible, and I can see everybody here is ok with it, because of the dream that we are going to be better next year .Keep drinking the kool aid .......
why do you think we won't be as good next season as this season?
Wait, what?? Strasburg is going to be shut down?!! Why has no one been discussing this?
And while we're at it, can somebody please explain why they haven't found a way to get Wilson Ramos healthy and ready to play? It's been months, where's the proof he can't play? And the Time-Machine Willie Mays...why hasn't Rizzo found a way to get the Time Machine Willie Mays here?
Taino in DC-- I don't think everyone is OK with it expecting to win the WS next year. I think people respect putting the player's health before an all-out killer drive to win THIS year, which might not happen anyway. I'm not saying the Nats are as good without Stras as with him, but the Nats are pretty d*** good with the rest of the rotation and the offense, so it's not as if we are trashing our chances for this year by shutting Stras down. So let's talk about this year.
The Nats are 99% to go to the playoffs. No guarantee, of course, but they would have to fold massively not to get to even the WC. It's hard to imagine that John Lannan making 2 or 3 starts in September--John Lannan who is fresh and VERY MOTIVATED--is going to reduce the chances by that much over a tired and still-rehabbing Strasburg.
SO then you are left with the issue of the playoffs. Stras is already at 150 innings. If he makes 2 or 3 more starts that takes him up to 170-180, which is max for the shutdown. It doesn't matter if he skips a start, the innings he would pitch IN SEPTEMBER brings him to the max, and so he will not pitch in the playoffs, period.
Now, if you want to argue Rizzo & Co. should have done something different from the start, OK, but that is a lot of hindsight. If they had put Stras in the bullpen like Medlen, the Nats might be in Atlanta's position, scrambling to grab a WC spot. Let's say Stras is 15-6 now, but he came out of the bullpen and went 10-3. Those five games could easily be the difference, and who is to say he would have been effective out of the bullpen, he's never been a reliever in his life.
So, Taino, I respect your opinion as a fellow Nats fan, but I disagree with it.
Forget Time Machine players, it's cyborgs or nothing for me.
And it had better be pennant mode, too, or I'm not playing. humph!
Count Taino in DC as another one that doesn't understand how pitching development works.
It's not just that--nobody is born knowing this stuff. It's that it's been explained and explained sixteen different ways, daily, since early May, and people still ask the same questions as if they were rhetorical.
GOOGLE, people. Google.
And is Count Taino related to Count Damoney?
NatsLady said...
Here is what I bring to games:
- wifi card
- cell phone
- ipod
- tablet computer
- binoculars
- cane or walking-stick
- sweater
- blanket
- scorebook
- backup power supply; cords for all devices
- sunscreen and bugspray
- Clip jersey
- pens, pencils
- ticket (+Metro card, $$, keys etc.)
Not a light traveler. Never have been.
Wow. Didn't you forget the raft with the inflatable life vests?
I don't even own half that stuff. God bless you, NL, you must keep the U-Haul business in the black.
Sunshine--right, forgot.
--umbrella :)
What, no water? :-)
I like to take a poncho rather than an umbrella (less bulky and lighter).
Here's the thing, NJ and Sec 3. Not everybody has been here since Day 1 on Stras, and when you google, you get a mess. Yes, I'm tired of going over and over the issues, but if Taino is a Nats fan and just "discovering" this site, or an infrequent entrant, then why shouldn't we run over the arguments again? I'd like every Nats fans to understand where Rizzo is coming from--even if in the end, they don't agree.
As regards the "kook-aid", that doesn't apply to next year--that came from the disbelief, and gradual BELIEF that the Nats could be a contending team THIS YEAR. No one's drinking Kool-Aid about next year, when haven't finished this year's pitcher-full (sorry, couldn't resist).
We don't know what the team will look like next year. We can guess--a lot of the guys are young or under long-term contracts. But who foresaw we were getting Gio or EJax? Who knew Desi would be an All-Star and Ramos would sit out most of the year?
All we know at this point is that the best medical opinion recommends not pushing Stras and to follow the JZ programme. There is no new medical information at this point. So, Rizzo is sticking with the plan despite the "new" information that the Nats are in the playoff hunt.
1a--water I buy on 1/2 street, so yes, water. But not food, my one indulgence is the ballpark food.
The umbrella doubles as a parasol.
NL, I love your preparation. On that, we're in the same boat. I'm cooking chicken outside right now for club sandwiches tonight. I'm bringing my own frozen water. I refuse to give the Lerners -- or more likely, Stubhub -- anything but the ticket price.
WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY off-topic, but it's a blue moon tonight. To find out what that means (two full moons in a month), here's the definitive word. And, no, the moon will not appear blue -- just the Cardinals batters.
http://bethesda.patch.com/articles/blue-moon-to-light-up-the-night-sky-friday?ncid=wsc-patch-article-headline
From the article: Harper "...he [Werth] really fires me up and gets me going."
Yes, because as we all know, without Werth there to light a fire under his lazy butt, Harper would be mailing it in, not running out popups, Livo-ing down to first on grounders, and so on.
So the phone rings this am and it's Cunegonde calling from work.
"Hey, I have an idea what we can do tonight."
"What's that?" I ask, bracing myself for a suggestion that we go see the remake of "Steel Magnolias" or somesuch.
"Why don't we go to the ball game? I checked StubHub and there are tickets in our usual area for reasonable prices."
Two years ago, the woman couldn't have picked out Stephen Strasburg in a lineup that consisted of Strasburg and three ham sandwiches.
Section 219, row E.
Should still be good seats on that promo, Candide. Of course, it's still 94 degrees. That'll roast your onions.
NatsLady, normally I'd agree. Like I said, nobody is born knowing this stuff. But I've seen that screen name in here more than a few times. I don't mind not knowing, it's lazy and negative that get on my nerves.
NL, I splurge on ballpark food, too. Good call on the umbrella/parasol.
@Candide: That's my dream woman. I'm taking The Lovely Wife, but she's not that enthusiastic. But she's coming off a root canal, so some of the novocaine but still be in effect by the time she eyes Clint.
It's when that 'caine starts wearing off, there's going to be a emotional price extracted.
Sec.3, those seats will be nicely in the shade well before first pitch. Cunegonde insists; she buys SPF 3000 sunscreen by the truckload, else the only way you'd be able to distinguish her from a steamed lobster is by her lack of claws.
Okay, and lack of an exoskeleton.
And antennae.
And six legs.
And a tail.
And inability to live long under water.
But apart from that...
Sunshine_Bobby, you need to get her to watch the games on TV a little more. Last night, we were watching (toggling to the Republican convention during commercials - for some reason our picture-in-picture doesn't work...) Camera briefly catches Detwiler in the dugout. Cunegonde says, "He's kinda cute..." and Det immediately begins picking his nose.
When they notice that some of the players are good-looking, you've won half the battle. Have your wife watching whenever Zimm comes to bat; every woman I know thinks he's a dreamboat.
NatsLady. Keep preaching because we are going to keep hearing about StrasNoMas until Opening Day next year.
MicheleS said...NatsLady. Keep preaching because we are going to keep hearing about StrasNoMas until Opening Day next year.
Just because the ignoramuses (ignorami?) keep talking doesn't mean we have to listen.
Every now and then, during a lengthy (weeks, months, even years) argument, you sometimes realize that you've heard all the arguments you're going to hear from both sides. You realize that you've heard not a single argument combining both facts and logic that has changed your mind from whatever your position may be, and that since you are probably not going to live forever, there's no point in listening to those arguments again. It doesn't mean you're close-minded - indeed, you've thought about the issue at hand at some length. But why should you waste your life arguing the same point over and over and over again?
So when you hear someone complain that Strasburg shouldn't be shut down, that the Nats can stretch him out by skipping starts or pitching every 6th day or working out of the bull pen or being put into cryogenic suspended animation four days a week*, you're perfectly justified in ignoring it. As the saying goes, "I'm not deaf - I'm just ignoring you."
*(Okay, I haven't heard THAT argument...)
Excellent advice, Candide. Will do.
If I'm in divorce court by Monday noon, will not hold anyone liable.
Candide, good points and I tend to apply them whether or not I've heard a given argument (armchair GM or otherwise) a number of times. It's not likely that either person will change the other's mind and imho it's a waste of energy to try. It can also indicate a lack of respect for the other person's capacity to form and hold an opinion of their own. That said, I think some folks just like to debate. :-)
(Oh, and I like to look at the coaches and managers. They're more my demographic these days. :-))
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