Sunday, August 12, 2012

Game 115: Nats at Diamondbacks

Photo by Mark Zuckerman / NATS INSIDER
Ross Detwiler tries to pitch the Nats to their ninth straight win today.
PHOENIX -- In their eight-year history, the Nationals own one winning streak of more than eight games: the 10-game run in June 2005 that catapulted that surprise team into first place. Today, a 2012 Nationals club far more talented that than inaugural group has a chance to win its ninth straight game and challenge the team record tomorrow night in San Francisco.

Ross Detwiler will be on the mound for this one, looking to continue his strong run since rejoining the rotation nearly two months ago (he's 2-1 with a 2.55 ERA in eight starts). He'll be opposed by fellow left-hander Patrick Corbin, a rookie making his eighth career start in the big leagues.

Jayson Werth is not in the Nationals' lineup this afternoon. Honestly, that's not a huge surprise because he looked a bit tired after patrolling the spacious center field here at Chase Field last night. So Bryce Harper is back in center, with Tyler Moore in left and Michael Morse in right.

Lots of updates to come, so please check back...

WASHINGTON NATIONALS at ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS
Where: Chase Field
Gametime: 4:10 p.m. EDT
TV: MASN2, MLB.tv
Radio: WJFK (106.7 FM), WFED (1500 AM), XM 184
Weather: Indoors
NATIONALS (71-43)
SS Danny Espinosa
CF Bryce Harper
3B Ryan Zimmerman
RF Michael Morse
1B Adam LaRoche
LF Tyler Moore
C Kurt Suzuki
2B Steve Lombardozzi
LHP Ross Detwiler

DIAMONDBACKS (57-57)
CF Chris Young
2B Aaron Hill
LF Jason Kubel
1B Paul Goldschmidt
RF Justin Upton
C Miguel Montero
3B Chris Johnson
SS John McDonald
LHP Patrick Corbin

UMPIRES
HP D.J. Reyburn
1B Mike Muchlinski
2B C.B. Bucknor
3B Dan Iassogna

4:11 p.m. -- We are underway with a strike from Patrick Corbin to Danny Espinosa. It's 106 degrees outside, a comfortable 77 degrees inside.

4:15 p.m. -- Wow, crazy way for Bryce Harper's afternoon to begin. He sent a chopper up the middle and might have been out on a bang-bang play at first, except John McDonald's throw skipped past Paul Goldschmidt and towards the dugout. So Harper turned and started to make a beeline for second base. Except Mike Muchlinski was standing directly in his path and Bryce wound up taking out the umpire with a tackle that would've made James Harrison proud (and probably resulted in a fine from Roger Goodell). So Harper had to retreat to first base, where moments later he was picked off by Corbin. Not the way the rookie wanted his day to begin.

4:23 p.m. -- And the Bryce Harper First Inning concludes with a diving catch to rob Chris Young of extra bases, then a semi-routine flyball out. Ross Detwiler had the audacity to strike out Jason Kubel to end the inning without Harper being involved in any way. So after all that, it's scoreless as we move to the second.

4:42 p.m. -- Sloppy defense gives the Diamondbacks a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the second. Ryan Zimmerman made a nifty, short-hop scoop of Goldschmidt's grounder to third, then fired a terrible throw to first for a two-base error. As we've often seen over the years, the more time Zim has to make a throw, the more likely he is to throw it away. Making this one even worse, Goldschmidt immediately stole third and scored when Kurt Suzuki's throw sailed into left field. That's two errors, one stolen base and zero hits off Detwiler, yet the D'backs take a 1-0 lead.

5:18 p.m. -- We're into the bottom of the fourth now, the Nats now trailing 3-0 after a shaky third inning by Detwiler. He gave up a couple of doubles and plunked Jason Kubel in the ribs, helping lead to a two-out rally. The Nats, meanwhile, have one hit off Corbin through four, making the rookie throw only 43 pitches.

5:29 p.m. -- Make it five scoreless for Corbin, who has faced the minimum. In fact, the only batter to reach has been Harper on that first-inning infield single (which could have been scored an error). Obviously, there's a long way to go, and we've seen how quickly this lineup can strike. But they've shown no signs of doing it so far today. Still 3-0 D'backs.

5:49 p.m. -- This one got ugly in a hurry. Detwiler couldn't get out of the fifth inning, issuing a one-out walk followed by an RBI double. He saved himself from decapitation by snagging Kubel's comebacker, but that was all Davey needed to see. In came Craig Stammen, who only poured more gasoline on the fire. Three straight hits, two of them doubles, putting the Diamondbacks up 7-0. It would take a fairly remarkable rally at this point for the Nats to keep their winning streak alive.

5:55 p.m. -- Six innings in the books, and Corbin still has faced the minimum. Stammen got to hit for himself with two outs and the Nats trailing by seven. That should tell you what Davey thinks about this game. At this point, it's just about completing the final three innings without anybody getting hurt.

6:20 p.m. -- Well, at least the Nats got a clean base hit. And a couple of runs, as it turns out. Espinosa doubles to right-center to open the seventh, then scores on Zimmerman's RBI single. LaRoche added a sac fly, so it's 7-2 as we reach the seventh-inning stretch.

6:34 p.m. -- Harper is now hitting .249 after a popup to short to end the top of the eighth. That's the lowest his batting average has sat since May 20.

6:52 p.m. -- This one's not over quite yet, folks. Doubles by Zimmerman and Morse a long single by Moore have trimmed the lead to 7-4 with one out in the ninth and forced Kirk Gibson to bring in his closer, J.J. Putz, to finish this off.

7:01 p.m. -- Now it's over. The Nats drop the finale of the series, 7-4, and see their eight-game winning streak come to an end. Hey, nobody said they were perfect.

183 comments:

SonnyG10 said...

Let's go Det!!! Sweep!!!

baseballswami said...

Happy Birthday , Mark! How about a nice win today?

peric said...

No Werth ... he didn't look all that happy in CF last night. As I said I bet that's the likely last Werth will see of CF he will be sitting more often if Tyler Moore starts to break out with a barrage of extra base hits.

NatsLady said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kevin Rusch said...

I'm guessing it was just for the PH possibilities, but why would you sit Bryce against a right-handed starter yesterday if he's going to face a left-handed starter today? Just seems odd to me.

peric said...

I know it's getting crowded there, but can Rendon play first base, and be another LaRoche? If he is a better fielder than TyMo--and keep RZ at 3B?

Over the past three years Ryan Zimmerman has spent as much time hurt, playing hurt, and on the DL. He is their best hitter when he's healthy bar none. They need his offense. Zim would move to first base and be the backup at third. Rendon would be placed at third. The caveat is if he's health. Its not a bad thing having Espinosa and Desmond both great starting shortstops. As we've seen. Its not a bad thing having Rendon and Zim both great starting third baseman.

peric said...

I'm guessing it was just for the PH possibilities, but why would you sit Bryce against a right-handed starter yesterday if he's going to face a left-handed starter today? Just seems odd to me.

Wade Miley is left-handed? What are you talking about?

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Happy birthday Mark!

NatsLady said...

That's what I'm thinking, it's a nice "luxury" to have overqualified fielders. If Rendon can play 3rd, surely he can play first and we could get both bats in the lineup. Then he spells RZ at third if RZ is injured or tired and you let TyMo play first. That's if we can't keep LaRoche.

peric said...

And yes I know the problem is Adam LaRoche and his left-handed bat. I am certain Ryan Zimmerman would be a gold glove caliber first baseman. Its a choice do I want Ryan Zimmerman's bat for an entire season or Adam LaRoche's more inconsistent 30+ left-handed bat? If its me I'm all in for Zim getting 600+ at bats with a monster ISO.

But then you need some left-handed bats in the outfield. Right now there's just Bryce Harper. Maybe Corey Brown .. maybe. But there's always Werth until 2018. Unless he gets benched. As time goes by Werth will become more and more a huge fly in the ointment.

mick said...

happy birthday, Bill Murray style to Mark... happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birth day dear Mark, huge Nats fan, founder of Nats Insider, and a good guy... Happy birthday to you!!!

mick said...

and I'll have a drink to Mark, lol

Schumatrix said...

It's incredible that we're even having a discussion about moving guys around to make room for others. I took a look at the rosters from '05-'09 and those were dark days indeed. I really like what LaRoche does for this team, but TyMo might have a large enough upside that we let ALR leave after the year's over. I think you have to keep Moore at first because i hate, hate, hate him in the outfield. Dude looks lost a lot of the time. If Rendon's a plus infield glove, do you trade Espi and Lombo to keep the farm full? Also, with all of the potential offensive talent we have on this team, you have to drop one of Desi, Espi, and Lombo moving forward, and who will that be?

baseballswami said...

I can't believe that these are out "problems".

peric said...

When he spells RZ at third if RZ is injured or tired and you let TyMo play first. That's if we can't keep LaRoche.

RZ is always injured when he plays 3b. He is injured now! How many games have they lost his bat over the past three years? Far too many. Its time for Zim to move to first base as Boz often opines. And we know Boz has the best inside sources so don't be surprised if that is what happens come next season Natslady.

T-Mo has to learn to play left-field. That's the position they have him at. They were probably thinking about following your suggestion with Morse but if Morse breaks out again ... and it looks like he definitely starting on a tear ... but he like Zim seems to get injured fairly often. He isn't Adam Dunn and is in far better shape but he does appear to be trending that way.

The original Nats FO plan called for a young, athletic outfield. Then they got Werth and broke their own rule. Because Davey is more offensive minded today we see an outfield that almost reminds one of the last of the old Nat's: Howard/Unser or Stroud/Reichardt.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

I have followed Rendon and seen him play. If he can progress to the point where he can compete in Spring Training 2013, it will certainly be interesting how he factors in.

3rd base, 2nd base and left field are all future possible positions. The Zim to 1st base in 2014 could be a possibility if Rendon proves to be ready and Espi is doing the job at 2nd otherwise LF could be the way to get Rendon into the lineup.

Schumatrix said...

Do you trade Lombardozzi then? I think the guy is too good not to be a future everyday player. He'll walk if he gets to the end of his contract and we aren't playing him as a starter. So do you trade him soon to get the maximum value from him. I'm starting to like him better than Espi if Danny can't put together an above average offensive season.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

I don't quite understand why Lombo has lost his leadoff spot. While still hitting in the 8th spot, he definitely was getting hot in the leadoff spot prior to that. Today, with Espinosa batting leadoff (and I assume Lombo to be batting 8th again) is puzzling. Espi was finding his niche and his avg rising hitting in the 7-hole. Any thoughts?

peric said...

or Lombo moving forward

Lombo. The MI has a lot of synergy ... the Nats probably have the best young MI double play combination in baseball in Desmond and Espy. You just don't touch that. Unless your name is Robert Short. You definitely keep 20 somethings Rendon and Zim. LaRoche is over 30 but he has the left-handed power bat. But, again I'd rather have Zim against left-handed and right-handed hitters for 600-700 every year.

Tyler Moore either gets better in left-field (he's still new at it) or he gets traded. Corey Brown has a lot of potential to be that left-handed bat but you need a spot for him in the outfield and they already have Werth and Harper. Harper definitely stays. I still think Werth plays the pine.

Schumatrix said...

That's a lot of cash for a bench guy. It's unfortunate that the NL doesn't have a DH, amiright?

peric said...

I don't quite understand why Lombo has lost his leadoff spot. While still hitting in the 8th spot, he definitely was getting hot in the leadoff spot prior to that.

Lombo is a switch hitter whose splits are not all that great against left-handed pitchers when he turns around and bats right. Of course yesterday he tried to prove he is getting the knack of batting right with that great day. Espy is the opposite. Batting right he has all-star numbers, batting left not so wonderful.

NatsLady said...

Danny hits better right-handed and Lombo hits better left-handed, in fact, Lombo was pretty hopeless for a while there hitting RH. That's not a slam on either player, that's just Davey with matchups.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

We should re-sign ALR, but if we don't: Morse should move back to first -- he played an excellent 1b last season.
Rendon (if in the picture) goes to LF -- Harper, Bernie take CF -- Werth stays in RF -- for good.

Lombo will be utility -- and he will get plenty of playing time -- and Moore is just going to have to work and learn to play an OF position. So Moore, get off your ass and learn to play a sharper outfield. You'll play more. (excuse the relative pun).

Schumatrix said...

This is why, IMO, the NL needs a DH. Can you imagine the flexibility the Nats would have if they had just one more spot in the order free?

Joe Seamhead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NatsLady said...

If Rendon doesn't have speed it won't work for him to play in the outfield. That's why LaRoche never played there. If Rendon has quick hands, a good arm and sharp instincts--and power--then you have to find a place for him in the infield.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Peric: Yeah, we know all that Nats 101

Yet, Davey has had him the leadoff spot for both lefties and righties since Desi has been out. It's only been in the last two games that 'matchups' seemed have gained importance for Lombo. Lombo for all his challenges batting right-handed, is a smart batter who takes pitches gets on base -- a good leadoff man.
Espi leads the league in K's and doesnt walk frequently. For all of Davey's "godlike" reputation for matchups, he flies in the face of baseball logic by having the League's Highest Strikeout Artist batting leadoff.

peric said...

I'm starting to like him better than Espi if Danny can't put together an above average offensive season.

Many said that about Desmond last year in his sophomore year. Espinosa is a potential superstar in the making. Ceiling as high as anyone including Harper. Harper's is better offensively because he is only 19. But defensively Espinosa has an enormous edge. He is the closest thing the Nats have to a a McCutchen in the making. And you trade Espinosa? You don't even think about it unless a young phenom starter close to the level of Stras is involved.

Lombo will never be a superstar ... but he could be a very good, very competent second baseman. He could make the All Star. But he isn't in the same league as Espinosa.

Schumatrix said...

Zim is so great at third though. I just hope Rendon can be 80% of what he is over there.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Natslady: Morse has a good, soft, glove and infielder's instincts -- played SS his whole life.

I don't really know how fast Rendon is or isn't, but what I will assume is that he has to be faster than Morse!! You don't need speed at 1B or 3B - just quick feet and hands -- Morse has both. If Rendon has any speed at all, and we know he has an excellent glove, than Rendon in the OF and the slower Morse in the infield might be the ticket.

Schumatrix said...

I never said I was ready to give up on Espy, he just really needs to cut down on the Ks. I totally believe he can be great, but I haven't seen it yet.

peric said...

Espi leads the league in K's and doesnt walk frequently. For all of Davey's "godlike" reputation for matchups, he flies in the face of baseball logic by having the League's Highest Strikeout Artist batting leadoff.

Reread Ladson's interview with Davey. He still refers to this team as work-in-progress. You are looking at them as 36 something NY Yankees. Most are young players with a learning curve. Who knows what Lombo will look like in his sophomore year?

Ladson with Davey

Drew said...

Even if LaRoche leaves -- whether it's '13 or '14, the Nats still will have a fascinating logjam.

You've got Zim, Rendon, Desmond, Espinosa, Lombo, Morse, Moore, Harper, Goodwin, Werth for seven starting jobs.

Not to mention trades, free agents and others climbing the ladder like Brown and Walters.

NatsLady said...

It would surprise me if we have all of Morse/TyMo/Brown/Rendon/Bernadina next year. We need another SP (or two) and don't have one ready. We can go the FA route, but we might trade some of the excess.

Schumatrix said...

Goodwin has to prove himself in the minors first. He's not been great since his promotion. He's young, yeah, but at this point I wouldn't say that he's a guarantee in '14.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

I still cringe everytime Zimmerman throws the ball, though. He makes 90% of his plays running plays where he gets to throw on the run, which seems to help his throw. When Zim is straightened out and asked to throw without his running start -- that's when his throws go haywire. Nevertheless, he seems to functioning just fine and getting the job done at 3B -- Amazing with his throwing struggles.

Joe Seamhead said...

I like baseball.The NL plays baseball.The DH isn't really baseball.

peric said...

If Rendon has any speed at all, and we know he has an excellent glove, than Rendon in the OF and the slower Morse in the infield might be the ticket.

Davey has already said Morse is in the outfield. Period. Albeit he did play him at first for that one inning. Why?

LaRoche
Moore
Zimmerman

That's probably how the FO sees the first base from this year to next year. P

Rendon is a gold glove third baseman in the offing. You don't waste that in the outfield.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Natslady: ?? We need another SP or two? Currently we have 5 good ones, with a 6th (Lannan) available. How does that work?

Resign Jackson and we have the same starting 5 as this year.

NatsLady said...

Phillies are giving the game to StL. Horrible D.

peric said...

It would surprise me if we have all of Morse/TyMo/Brown/Rendon/Bernadina/LaRoche/Lombardozzi next year.

NatsLady said...

Jackson will probably want more years than Rizzo is willing to give. Lannan will be non-tendered. You need 6 maybe 7 plausible SP's because of injuries. We have been extraordinarily lucky.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

NatsLady, Rendon will beat Willingham in a sprint but true, hes not known for his blazing speed.

Also, Rendon got tossed in the 4th today for arguing the K zone and of course Rendon was correct.

NatsLady said...

peric, was only considering players under team control, should have included Lombo.

peric said...

Resign Jackson and we have the same starting 5 as this year.

And Ryan Perry is looking a lot better than Lannan plus there's Nate Karns. And at some point Solis and Purke will be coming up ... and its early but Alex Meyer is looking pretty good.

I don't think they go for another starter in trade unless its someone who is almost equivalent to Strasburg and ready for the majors. Or they sign someone like Grienke. I think its sign a free agent as they did Jackson or go with the minor league prospects when they are ready.

sjm308 said...

BA = .311
obp = .409
slg = .462
ops = .871
ops+ = 137

record of team in 10 games started since returning from broken wrist 10-0

yeah, Werth is a bench player - so glad peric doesn't wear a thread out

Go Nats!!

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Peric: Rendon 'ain't" gonna be playing 3B in D.C. -- not with Zim there. Did you not see Morse play 1B last season? His play was excellent with a fielding % of .992. Can't get much better than that.
We all know what a superb fielding 1B LaRoche is. But his fielding average is .995. A thin hair better than Morse.

My point is that -- and I'm guessing of course -- is that Morse at 1B and Rendon in LF would be better defensively than the other way around. I mean, Morse in the OF is scary -- and with his LaRoche-esque .992 at 1B, it only makes sense.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Another word: I have never heard Davey state Morse would never play 1B -- ever. Just this season.

I have heard others -- even Rizzo -- include Morse in the conversation when talking options at 1B into the future.

peric said...

Rendon isn't going anywhere. It would make no sense both from a baseball and financial perspective to trade him. Given his injury history there is no way they would get the kind of value he would likely produce for the Nats on the field. I think you can safely X him off of your list Natslady. But the others are certainly possibilities.

peric said...

Another word: I have never heard Davey state Morse would never play 1B -- ever. Just this season.

In the end Zimmerman and his bat are more valuable 600-700 times at the plate than his glove work ... his errant throws were enough to consider moving him last year. I still think he moves to first base. Once he's there Morse is an outfielder.

NatsLady said...

Can't see them paying the $$$ for Greinke. Ejax may find himself in the same position as he was last year, and if he does, maybe we can get him for two years. Tough to say, because you don't know why he fired Boras. I wouldn't go longer than than two years, because we have guys coming up through the system that will hopefully be ready in 2015, plus you can draft a college pitcher.

Perry might work, but you won't know until well into next year, got to have a little more certainty than that. If you get an FA and Perry or works out you can flip the FA at the deadline. True, you don't get the compensation but you unload salary.

NatsLady said...

Good points, peric. That's how he fell to us in the draft. Take Rendon off, put Lombo on--though I would really had to lose him.

sjm308 said...

Peric is correct on Rendon - he is a special player and most have never seen him
He was going to be the #1 pick until injury - he has been injured a good bit though so the jury is out on that issue but it is definitely not out on his hitting and fielding ability. I do see Zimm moving to first but not next year.
I am not sure about the LaRoche situation. Can we just offer him the one year at around 13 million and can he reject that? I think he will be looking for that one last big contract and at his age I don't blame him. I would love LaRoche for one year and Jackson for two or three but I honestly don't see either happening. Will love it if it does though.

It would not surprise me to see Rendon in the majors next season. He is that good!

go Nats!!

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Natslady: Sorry, but needing to acquire More starters is just a non-starter. Where are you going to put these free agent starters, in the bullpen? I don't think so. And don't forget, we have Gorzo (a starter) in the pen as backup. So, our starting 5, plus Lannan, plus Gorzo and we already 7 starters -- not to mention the Minor league boys that might be ready to come up.

peric said...

Peric: Rendon 'ain't" gonna be playing 3B in D.C. -- not with Zim there.

How many at bats did Zim get last year? How many this year. One of the arguments against signing Zim long-term was his inability to consistently get through a season injury free. But his bat is that valuable. He will likely be gold glove caliber at first base.

You aren't reading the scouting repots. Rendon is not like Morse et al. HE IS a gold glove fielder at third base. He is the equivalent of Desmond and Espinosa. You don't waste that in the outfield.

NatsLady said...

er, "hate" to lose Lombo. Quality player, very useful. Hard to find bench guys like that as we have seen. But if he can be a starter for another team, he will return more in a trade than he will be worth on our bench.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

If all they say about Rendon is true, then we do indeed have a special player. Only, thus far, Rendon has only proven that he is injury prone -- the reason he dropped in the draft, the reason he hasnt played all year.

We can't assume Rendon will be ready next year either. He has a whole lot to prove first.

sjm308 said...

Natsfansince - I don't want to speak for natslady but I am pretty sure she is looking ahead to next year. There is no way they bring LannEn back and pay him 5 million to sit in the minors again. Jackson is on a one year contract to technically, he is not ours after this season. That leaves just 4 starters. Peric has named Perry as an interesting case and I don't believe he has options so he either makes the team in spring training or he is gone (actually that is also the case with Corey Brown and Bernadina as well).
Back to other pitchers, we still have Maya for a year and he actually has been decent this last month. The youngsters are just that young so I am not counting on them, hence, we need more starting pitching. It could start with signing Jackson but I am guessing he wants at least 3 years and I am not sure Rizzo will go for that.

Hope I am close to being correct for natslady but she usually comes through with even better analysis that I do.

Go Nats

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Peric: You ignored Morse's fielding stats -- doesn't everyone?

Again, Morse had a .992 fielding avg. LaRoche has a .995.

Rendon would need a 1.000 to make any negligible difference at first base.

What did Rendon do at 3B when he did play in Pro ball? Let's see.

Small sample for sure -- but it's all we have at this point.

20 games at Rookie Ball, Low A and A+
34 chances
5 errors
Fielding Avg. .853

Gold glove you say? thus far, I remain unimpressed. This boy needs a lot of pro ball experience to prove that he is something.

NatsLady said...

sjm308, yes. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Next year we start with

-Stras
-Gio
-JZ
-Det

You go FA or trade for the 5th starter in the off-season (could be EJax), and in the spring you see if Perry/Maya, etc. cut it. Lannan is gone. Gorzelanny is not a starter, not for this team, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is a non-tender, depends on how much we would have to pay in arbitration.

sjm308 said...

On Lombo - I am pretty sure we control him for several more years. He might not be happy with the utility role but he sure will be great at it. I love that Davey got him the at bats he promised this year but again, Peric is correct that both Desmond and Espinosa are potential all-stars for years to come. It will be a luxury to have all 3 next year.

Another luxury of riches could be at catcher. If Ramos is healthy, what do you do with Suzuki? Flores? Leon? Solano? I know you can store the last two in the minors but one of the others has to probably be traded. That is why they pay Rizzo the big bucks and he won't have to make that move until Ramos proves he is healthy.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Roger needs your votes he is 30 votes behind Trout now. Go to the link and vote for Roger far right bottom right

http://espn.go.com/mlb/baseballtonight

Morse takes his 20 game hitting streak to Right Field today.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

I really have no hope for Maya -- at all.
Maybe Perry makes it as a starter -- maybe not. His stuff just isnt impressive.

NatsLady said...

I don't think Lannan could sit in the minors again, surely he must be out of options, or Rule 5 or simple fairness or something.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Trout is awesome -- Period. So was his catch.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

yeah, poor Lannan. But you could see it coming in 2011. One could easily say ( and it was many times) that any team that has John Lannan above a 4th or 5th starter is not a pennant contender. Sorry, John, but it's true.

whatsanattau said...

If the case for moving a player from third to first is to protect the players health wouldn't moving Rendon make even more sense than moving Zimm?

Regardless, I think Rendon won't make an appearance before June 2013 at the earliest and possibly not until 2014. They will want him starting when he comes to stay and they will want track record of health before making room for him. IMO.

sjm308 said...

Agreed - when I said we would see Rendon next season I was not thinking he would come south with the team out of spring training. He could... but I am thinking the same as whatanattu that they want a little more data.

Theophilus T. S. said...

Lannan will get a $3MM tender (minimum allowed). Jackson isn't worth signing for multiple years, or probably even for one year at his price. (Can you imagine tendering him $12.4 million just to get another draft choice? Shudder.) Other than Greinke, most of the available rent-an-arms next winter aren't any better than Lannan. (Shiver) The Nats don't have to sign him until just before the arbitation hearing. So it they can strike early on a FA who's better than Lannan (unlikely) or make a December trade for someone who's better (possible), then they trade Lannan to someone who's willing to go to arbitration for $3MM.

Schumatrix said...

I think we can all say that it's much easier to speculate here on NI and not have to do Rizzo's job.

Doc said...

I thought that Davey just might put JFlo back in today, after a good offesive/defensive showing yesterday.

I know...I know, they're touting KSuk as the starting C. Just the same, JFlo is my pet underdog on this year's team.

Guess I'll just have to continue to keep track of KSuk's CS's and offensive numbers in comparison to JFlo's!

JFlo is winning so far!!!

NatsLady said...

Not-Nats-Related: If you can find it, you should watch the video of how California beat Hawaii in the Little League semi-finals. I don't see it on Youtube, but it was on MLB Quick Pitch. Hilarious.

Schumatrix said...

NatsLady: Was Angel Hernandez at third base for that call?

NatsLady said...

Schumatrix: LOL! The funniest part was the ump being in on the whole thing.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Roger is falling fast. Need to place on your twitter and facebook accounts the link and get all your friends to vote as he is about 60 votes behind. Trout who is good is the media''s darling so you know it is up to us to promote Roger.

NatsLady said...

Amazing fact:

Incredibly, the Nats’ road record is now better than the HOME record of any other team in MLB.

Maybe not to worry too much about starting the playoffs on the road, er, if it happens, of course.

NatsLady said...

Jayson Werth talking about winning WS in the Nats ad. Guess there's no jinx.

peric said...

Jayson Werth talking about winning WS in the Nats ad. Guess there's no jinx.

Not the best idea there Jayson Benchbat.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

The umps find another way to cause harper a problem. Should have been on second instead on first and then picked off (which would not have happened had he been where he belonged). If Gio's move was a balk the other night so was that one, as it was pretty much identical.

peric said...

Rendon would need a 1.000 to make any negligible difference at first base.

What did Rendon do at 3B when he did play in Pro ball? Let's see.


For starters NatsFanSinceStart you haven't learned anything new about baseball since the late 1800's if you had you would know no one uses the fielding percentage and yours is a glaring example of how COMPLETELY ludicrous it is! No one uses it because it makes Adam LaRoche look so much better than Ian Desmond Desmond looks like a GCL player or worse. Or Espinosa!

Yikes I thought we were past that on this blog what's wrong with you people.

Please go to Fangraphs.com and study a stats relate to one called the UZR or ultimate zone rating.

I can't believe someone actually attempted to compare Morse, LaRoche etc. using fielding percentage ... arggggghhhhhhhh

peric said...

To whit: NationalsProspects.com Luke Erickson with his brief scouting report on Martinson (SS) and Rendon (3B). Worth a read don't forget to check out the comments.

Martinson is improving as a SS and has a ton of power, but defensively he’s a step behind where you’d want him to be and offensively, he strikes out way too much. He’s especially vulnerable to changeups and offspeed stuff. That won’t play at AA , where pitchers can throw their secondary pitches for strikes and can pitch backwards if necessary.

Last night was the second home game for Rendon, thus the second time I’ve seen him play. He’s only made solid contact twice — an at’em line drive to SS on Friday, the triple to right last night — but he has only swung at the first pitch once. He works the count like a major-leaguer.

I suspect pitchers will try to pitch to him for now, but when he starts brutalizing them, they’re going to give him the Barry Bonds treatment. He bounced one on Friday night but defense is something you need a few games to judge, and with him playing every other game in the field, it’s going to take some time to get a feel. I’m not terribly worried about that, though, given that 3B is a reaction position, not a footwork position.

NatsLady said...

Two terrible throws. RZ lost his focus, not sure what happened to Suzuki. Det will have to be calm here. Remember, you have offense.

baseballswami said...

I thought Suzuki was supposed to be a gold glove defender? Just sayin' If he's not going to hit.... I mean, at least RZ hits.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

The Huge, Menacing Elephant in the Living Room

zimmerman's throwing problems.

Amazes me not only does no one want to talk about it let alone adddress, but most people Deny that it is a problem at all.

Watch: 90% of this board will bash me for stating the obvious.

Mr. Doggett said...

The fact that teams can run on us is going to be a very big weakness in the playoffs. The book is out, but nats will still prevail. #natitude

NatsFanSinceStart said...

And I don't see Suzuki with any stronger or accurate an arm than Flores. What is forgotten here is that most bases are stolen off the pitcher. Suzuki is nothing special, far from it.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

We are so used to seeing laRoche pick those bad throws we are shocked when he misses one. Fielders (Zim and Suk) not doing the job yet today.

One thing I hope McCatty works on next spring is pitch efficiency. The starters (except Zim) all throw way too many pitches. Also hittiing a guy on an 0-2 is not good use of pitches either . (of course Suk dropped a tipped fou that would have been a k)

Fear and Ignorance said...

I agree NatFan...most people on this board are nothing but cheerleaders. Zimmerman will cost this team crucial runs in a playoff game with his fear of throwing the ball to 1B. You can see the wheels spinning in his head...this is why he charges everything...to get as close as possible for his underhanded throw...hence the ole last night.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

The Baseball Gods have a way of punishing weaknesses.

1. Zimmerman's throws
2. Runners steal with abandon

IN the playoffs, don't be surprised if either of these glaring weaknesses or both will cost us a series.

NatsJack in Florida said...

Suzuki has a long way to go to prove to me he's the defensive whiz various people purport him to be

NatsLady said...

That wasn't a throwing problem, that was a mental problem. He had time. If he was picking it and throwing on the run, he would have been fine.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Yes, Fear: I also am a cheerleader, but a realistic one.

I cheer for excellence; I criticize ineptitude.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Natslady: haha You are the first apologist to post -- am I shocked??

Zimm cannot throw straight up (i mentioned that before)
He can only throw on the run. Why? To compenstate for his problem.

Yes, it's mental. It's mental like Steve Sax, and Knoblauch. Of course it's mental. But it emanates in the physical plane. bottom line: He Cannot Make a Throw without Running and flipping it submarine style.

But you're a good cheerleader and that is good. I'm a little more realistic.

NatsLady said...

Don't get me wrong, RZ should not be having mental errors. On Suzuki, I'm not judging on just a few games.

NatsJack in Florida said...

Well you better pick a different sport because ineptitude is the norm in baseball. The best teams perform with a little less ineptitude than the others.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Natslady: One more thing --

A thirdbaseman throws the ball away for a 2-base error and one can Assert that it was not a throwing error??????

haha I already know how you vote.

baseballswami said...

Knowing that the pitchers are not efficient and that people can steal on them is not just something they need to work on. It's not a new concept for goodness sake. Neither is the idea that Zim airmails throws. Zim is a hoover at getting to things and hits, the throwing is his achilles heel and he will probably always work on it like he did when he rehabbed. It comes back to bite him. Don't you think it ticks him off and embarrasses him? Do you think he just doesn't care? As for the pitchers -- our staff is fantastic - they are just a little less fantastic at one thing. I guess they are just not as used to having base runners since hitters don't reach very much. The coaches preach fastball command and getting some contact outs. It's all a work in progress. We weren't supposed to be here yet. Do you expect them to be not only the staff with the best era, the best batting average and the best record in baseball - and , oh by the way, would you take time out to fix those other nasty little things right now? The coaches are doing the best they can at a pace that the pitching staff can handle.

Joe Seamhead said...

Nats Fan Since Start, what position did your son play on the MD Patriots?

Swift Eagle said...

NatsFanSinceStart said...

The Baseball Gods have a way of punishing weaknesses.

1. Zimmerman's throws
2. Runners steal with abandon

IN the playoffs, don't be surprised if either of these glaring weaknesses or both will cost us a series.
August 12, 2012 4:40 PM
_______________________________________

Predicting Disaster in the Playoffs! Lol, Another new tactic for the Legion of Doom

Guess you guys never get tired of being wrong


"Never make predictions, especially about the future" Casey Stengel

NatsFanSinceStart said...

NatsJack: Nope. You are wrong. There are errors in all sports. But that doesn't mean the person making the error is inept; they're just not perfect.

That Zimmerman seems unable to make a throw without running with it first, is .. well, ineptitude. Erros come and go -- ineptitude is a permanent condition.

NatsLady said...

Eagle, nope. He doesn't. Spent the whole day at it--so far.

NatsJack in Florida said...

Swift....get my last text?

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Swift Eagle: I am far from the Legion and Doom and you damn well know it.

If you want to approach the Nats like Pollyanna, be my guest.

Then you are just a mere cheerleader -- but no baseball person. Only a cheerleader. Rah Rah Sis Koom Bah

Swift Eagle said...

Fear and Ignorance said...

I agree NatFan...most people on this board are nothing but cheerleaders.
________________________________________

Kind or ironic complaining about cheerleaders to someone names NatsFan...

This is a Nats Blog, I actually think we're supposed to be cheering for the team to do well...

What part of being a fan is griping about the defense of the Gold Glove 3B?? I assume you know of a 3B to replace RZ who will NEVER make an error?...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Zim's errors happen off and on. Our catching problem is a much bigger problem. Little hitting and less defense. Rizzo must address that in the off season. I am not sure how Ramos will be after the injury. I know the present cast can't hit well and field worse. Leon can't field buut he could hit.

Swift Eagle said...

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Swift Eagle: I am far from the Legion and Doom and you damn well know it.

If you want to approach the Nats like Pollyanna, be my guest.

Then you are just a mere cheerleader -- but no baseball person. Only a cheerleader. Rah Rah Sis Koom Bah
August 12, 2012 4:52 P
____________________________

Hate to break this to you, but unless you have some ownership stake in the team that I don;t know about (God I hope not)

YOU ARE JUST A FAN TOO...even if you think you're a "baseball person" whatever that is..

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Swift, you are trying to dissemble. Why do you want to attack fans for speaking their minds about difficulties players are having?

Why do you have to make it personal just because someone doesnt Cheerlead like a robot?

Grow up, dude -- or should I say kid?

NatsLady said...

Tyler Moore's arm didn't look too bad there on the throw to second. I remember Lombo looking pretty lost when he first played LF. Maybe TyMo can improve, Lombo did. Lombo doesn't have the arm, but he got good jumps on the ball and didn't make a lot of mistakes.

NatsFanSinceStart said...

Swift: I never said I was a 'Baseball person." I'm just a fan.

But anyone who blindly cheerleads- like you -- might as well wear the pom poms and lollipops. Talking about players strengths and weaknesses is part of the game. Been going on for 100+ years.

Here, one mentions a player's throwing difficulties and people like you jump all over them. But, you're a good cheerleader. Rah Rah

NatsJack in Florida said...

Most of on this site approach this team as being 28 games over.500 and having a 3 game lead as the best record in baseball.

I enliken it to people who wake up everyday and start out thankfull for what they have as opposed to those who wake up and immediately whine about what they don't have.

Swift Eagle said...

If I understood what you meant, I might be offended...but I don't

I've actually never seen a Robot Cheerleader...

Fear and Ignorance said...

Swift-Get over yourself. I guarantee you that I am just as big of fan as you are, and just because every comment I make doesn't relate to how well the team is doing does not mean that I am hoping for disaster. BTW...Zimmerman is not a GG 3B anymore...far from it. He is actually costing the team runs over there, not saving them. Check out fangraphs stats from 2011 and 2012...a far cry from the previous 4 years.

NatsLady said...

NJ, I don't think that gratitude and criticism are mutually exclusive. However, the criticism should bear some resemblance to reality.

Swift Eagle said...

Ok, good points F&I...but does all the data actually merit the guy who said RZ's defense "will cost us a playoff series"??? Sure, call me a cheerleader, but that's going overboard on the negative side

Is there a better 3B available? I'm sure he will one day move to 1B, but do you really think the team would be better TODAY with someone else at 3B?

If you do, then I disagree...

Theophilus T. S. said...

Geesh -- someone who makes Peric look like Little Miss Sunshine.

djinFl. said...

Costing the team runs? Maybe you decide on the players ability by looking at graphs, but I do it by watching the games. I'll take what I see over your graphs any day. And yes, you are one of the more negative posters on the board.
Put your papers away, get a drink, put your feet up, and enjoy this game of baseball.

Fear and Ignorance said...

Swift-I love Zimmerman, just very nervous any time he has to throw the ball. In the other guy's defense, Boswell said something to the same effect in a column earlier this year about Zimmerman's bad habits costing them an important game in a playoff series. Bad habits seem to show up when the pressure is on...Boswell was talking about his tendency to field balls to his side (which he does so he can get rid of his underhanded throw in a quicker fashion). We have no alternative right now, but I foresee a move to 1B within 2 years...or even 2B (where he played in HS).

baseballswami said...

Everyone certainly is cranky today. Our record is 71-43 and we are picking apart the guys that got us here. Sorry to be the one to tell you, but all players have flaws. We have some pretty darned good ones on our team, though.

Swift Eagle said...

Fear and Ignorance said...

Bad habits seem to show up when the pressure is on...
___________________________

I think Zimmerman has shown to be be pretty good "when the pressure is on"....Based on his track record, isn't it just as likely that he actually plays better defense when it matters most??

Joe Seamhead said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
NatsJack in Florida said...

And another point. I predict the Nats will lose at least 12 more games this year. So there will be of opportunities for the Legion of Doom.

NatsJack in Florida said...

add "plenty" to my last post.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

So far a walk scored a HBP scored. An error scored. You lose most games where you give free things up.

Not that we have lost yet, but our hitters have shown no life so far today, they need to start in the 6th.

Of course another young Cy Young Which too often early in the season we created.

Fear and Ignorance said...

Swift-Those were Boswell's words. He also said that this team is too young to win it all and has to go through growing pains and playoff losses before they will win a WS...he changes his mind every day, so who knows what he really thinks.

Good News: Cardinals lose, so we are still 9.5 games up for the 5th wild card spot. Not what we are hoping for, but a nice cushion nonetheless.

peric said...

We have no alternative right now, but I foresee a move to 1B within 2 years...or even 2B (where he played in HS).

I don't think they change what they have in the MI. I can't see them doing any better than Desmond and Espinosa. Why change a good thing unless its because of injury ... and its because of injury they will move Zim to first base perhaps as soon as next spring ... you take his injury history and add to that the throwing issues, the need for his bat for more than 400 AB's, an amazing talent like Anthony Rendon ... sure looks to me like the tea leaves are lining up to put Zim starting at first base and backup to third base.

rogieshan said...

I know he's been working on staying more relaxed out there, but Detwiler's body language just doesn't speak of a pitcher in focus or command.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

There is always room to play better (unless you are 114-0)

I still say our catcher's are our achilles heel.

Secret wasian man said...

So Ryan made an error. So what. He hits makes most plays. If you want to roast a guy lets start with Bryce.

peric said...

Yeah, I think they tender lefty Tom Gorzelanny for next season.

NatsLady said...

Here's the thing. I'm not evaluating RZ's "worth." What I do wonder is why he makes throwing errors, and I'm not satisfied with the answer he can't throw unless he's running in and throwing underhand. I think he's made errors on the underhand throws also.

It seems to me he made several throwing errors right after he took the cortisone shot and was probably "over" strong--his body was just not in sync. If I recall, he had a sloppy game the day after he got engaged, and the team had a sloppy game after the gala (can't remember if it involved and RZ error). So what I'm thinking is his throwing is, yes, the weakness in his game, and it manifests itself at times when he's not at his physical or mental best.

What makes it striking is that no one plays third base the way he does, or not that I've seen.

peric said...

Doubles can kill you ... because homers are rarer perhaps more so. If this was after September 1st you might see some of those guys they need to evaluate that will be called up from the minors at this point.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Detwiler not real good today, but brilliant compared to Craig Stammen. He threw kerosine on the fire.

NatsLady said...

If the guy throws a one-hitter, which should be a no-hitter, won't matter...

peric said...

What makes it striking is that no one plays third base the way he does, or not that I've seen.

By many expert accounts Rendon might be better. Its why he was considered a phenom pretty close to the level of Strasburg before his shoulder issue which now seems to have healed. But, the fact that he like Zimmerman has suffered so many injuries already is a valid point of concern.

Secret wasian man said...

I didn't think it possible, but Suzuki is worse than Flores. Stammen throwing BP out there.

NatsLady said...

peric, yes. Didn't mean better or worse--just different.

peric said...

Stammen may now be in it until the end as mop up.

Secret wasian man said...

This is a complete stinker. But hey, get it out of your system now. Start another streak tommorrow.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Heard a rumor that their bats were stolen, and they had to go to Wal-Mart to buys some little league bats.

NatsLady said...

I like efficient losses. Might as well have a sloppy, poorly pitched game when they are shutting you out. Two for one. Not that I'm giving up...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

On another badnote Roger is down 10% on the vote, we need to at least win that.

Secret wasian man said...

good point Nats Lady. I least I am relaxed.

Section 222 said...

Zim has had throwing problems for years -- both before and after the abdominal surgery last year after which he supposedly relearned to throw. If he doesn't figure it out, he very well could be headed to 1B at some point. But it's not happening in the middle of this season, that's for sure. For one thing, there's no other viable option at 3B right now. Nor do we want to go without LaRoche's bat in the lineup.

NatsJack in Florida said...

When I saw that the Yankees were down 10-1 to the AL's version of the Astros (Blue Jays) earlier today, a game like this seemed possible. Oh well.

baseballswami said...

Ok - we've got ourselves a real stinker here folks. Can't believe this guy is no-hitting us. Bryce's "hit" was an error. Think the D-Backs will make an appeal to Joe Torre like Cole did? Let's hope they get all the crap out of their systems and are ready to go in San Fransisco. The seven doesn't even matter with that big, fat, goose egg up there. More errors than runs will kill you every time.

Secret wasian man said...

The catchers are minor league level. Bryce can't hit his way out of a wet bag. And everyone is worried about Zimms bad throw???? There goes the no hitter. HAHAHA

Secret wasian man said...

Umpire is in go home mode.

peric said...

But it's not happening in the middle of this season, that's for sure.

I believe we were discussing evaluating Rendon in September before the Arizona Fall League as that possibility might be viable plan starting next season or in 2014. Not making a change this season. I don't believe anyone was suggesting that 222.

baseballswami said...

The Nats are losing. Get over it. It happens. Doesn't mean the world is ending. There- we scored!

Secret wasian man said...

What? no home run? Uh oh here come the zimm bashers.

Section 222 said...

Pretty lousy game here. Time to make a last ditch effort to keep the Shark on top of Trout. Vote, clear browsing history, reload, repeat.

Joe Seamhead said...

I liked the popup slide by Izturis.

baseballswami said...

There are some crazy, out of whack scores in MLB today. Lots of big numbers. Must be the meteor shower or something.

Secret wasian man said...

sometimes you have to give up some quality in the field to get hitters. Zimm, Morse, Ty More. But thats the game. Best outfielder on this team was let go (anks) because he always struck out. Some exceptions. McCutheon, Votto....

NatsLady said...

Does it seem to you Stammen didn't have enough time to warm up? Det faded fast and then with the comebacker--? I think I've seen him do that before, give up something when he first comes on and then get stronger, characteristic of a starter/former starter.

NatsLady said...

I think Votto, like LaRoche, improved his fielding substantially. Now, Pujols...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Morse now a 21 game hist streak. I know if the number goes up enough Torre will feel the pressure.

Joe Seamhead said...

Well, give Davey an assist on that run scored by Izturis who pinch ran for Zim. Too bad Tyler couldn't keep it going. Incidentally,I would worry much more about Moore in LF costing us games then I would about Ryan at third.
Wow, Tracy in at third. Danny to the bench.

Section 222 said...

Too bad Zim doesn't have an arm like Tracy.

NatsLady said...

Tracy has not looked bad at 3rd. As long as he doesn't hurt himself, I'm fine with that, because, y'know, he throws so well... :)

Gonat said...

Put on your rally caps!!!!

NatsLady said...

222, LOL. Same thought. He made a nice play the last time, if I recall.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

the clering history didn't work for me, but trying other things. We cut the gap from 10 to 6 percent. Others try clearing history and see if it works for you.

Section 222 said...

NL, yes, Tracy made a great play and a strong throw in that game he started awhile back, and I thought the same thing. I despair that we will never see Zim make a strong throw across the diamond like that. Oh well, can't have everything.

Despite my efforts, Roger is fighting a losing battle over at ESPN. Trout's catch is actually pretty good, as is Davis's that will undoubtedly be the top play tonight, and will likely defeat Trout or Shark tomorrow.

Still it's kind of fun to legally stuff a ballot box. Feel free to join me.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

we are 30 votes behind now making a comeback.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

we are 28 down lets go

NatsLady said...

Voted with a different browser.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Having watched this putz this weekend, if anyone on this board calls one more time for Rizzo to sign Justin Upton, I am going to start taking down names. A complete waste. I'd rather have Brian Bixler.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Holy Cow. Upton made a catch. Let's give up four draft picks for him.

Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said...

Bitter about the streak ending? Me? Naaaaaaah.

Three words:

Let's Go Mets!

Section 222 said...

We've pulled Roger back into the lead. Keep it going!!

Swift Eagle said...

For the first time in over a week, the Nats lose.

Time for the Legion of Doom to party like it's 2009...

Joe Seamhead said...

Well, nice try on the comeback attempt.

NatsLady said...

Hey, the B-team almost made it! When you start down 7-0 and get to their closer...

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Keep it up we took the lead a great come back just like we almost had in Arizona. we didn't quit.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Go ROger go

NatsLady said...

Hey, didn't do too much damage to the run-differential. FWIW.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Had ROger made contact on the last high fast ball I think he would have tied it. Good comeback boys.

mick said...

no problem at all. I would still like to see Suzuki throw some one out, Ryan had a tough day, umpire needs to move his ass out of the way, you name it, just one of those days. Det got rattled I think by the errors. still 6-1 is awesome!

mick said...

Go mets!

Zection 3, My Zofa said...

OK, I went in and threw an inning for the Shark.

Go thou and do likewise.

Manassas Nats' Fan said...

Go ROger

natsfan1a said...

So, any guesses as to how many discrete individuals are actually represented by multiple monikers on this thread? Some of the memes and "arguments" seem quite familiar, although the monikers differ from those that formerly appeared with the meme or "argument" in question. Odd, that. ;-)

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