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US Presswire photo Jordan Zimmermann reacts as Allen Craig rounds the bases. |
ST. LOUIS -- He's been their most consistent pitcher all season, a no-nonsense right-hander who just wants to be handed the ball every five days and give his team a chance to win.
Jordan Zimmermann insisted he wouldn't be nervous to make the first postseason start of his career. And truth be told, there weren't really any signs this afternoon that the young hurler was nervous for Game 2 of the National League Division Series.
Zimmermann's biggest obstacle, as it turned out, wasn't October nerves but a Cardinals lineup that carves him up and feasts on whatever scraps are left. With another bludgeoning of the right-hander, St. Louis stormed out to an early lead and never let up to win this game 12-4 and tie this series at one game apiece.
There was no dramatic rally by the Nationals this time, only a lopsided loss that quickly erased memories of Sunday's 3-2 thriller and perhaps put the onus back on Washington to right its ship when the series reconvenes on South Capitol Street Wednesday afternoon.
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78 comments:
Tomorrow is another day.... Oops, no game tomorrow....
Yup a blow out ... the bullpen and the starter were ineffective.
hopefully, this where Ejac's post season experience payoffs
wonder if there is any chance the Giants can win tomorrow verse Reds?
At least the rest of the games will be in Washington. Jackson needs to have a good outing and a little more timely hitting. Today's game is one to forget.
We come home split. That is better than it might have been, and like a clean slate. EJax and Det are better at home than on the road. We'll be seeing them spray champagne Thursday evening.
Now we will win series 3-1
Got that Sucked!
Sorry GOD THATS SUCKED!
Mark, you forgot to mention a horrible morphing strike zone from Marvin Hudson. Frees got to a 3-0 count on what were clearly 2 strikes, and one that was borderline. Previous pitchers had gotten strikes to balls thrown there.
Luv the nats great season. The cards are a better team. Ejax and det the next two. I'm hoping for the best but not expecting much. Go nats
The thing that I find most remarkable is that no one seems to understand that Every Single Team In The History Of Baseball is worried during a five game series.
Someone point me to one where it wasn't so. The great Cincy Reds of 1973 with 99 wins, lost 3-2 to the turgid Mets who went 82-79 in the regular season. Seattle, in its 116 win season struggle in both rounds and failed to make it to the World Series. Cleveland won 111 games in 1954 and lost 4 straight to a good but not great Giants team.
Davey Johnson knows more than anyone not to take it too seriously. He played with the 1969 Orioles who won 109 games and who got wiped out by the Mets, and then managed the great 1986 Mets who barely edged out a so-so Boston team.
It would probably take 11 game series before you could have much confidence in the outcome. I know my writing this is unlikely to change anyone's disposition because it is a basic human emotion to believe that the cream rises to the top, but milk often curdles.
Davey using the word young and inexperienced a lot.
Based on injuries and the lack of Strasburg, the Cards are arguably better than the Nats, but that and fifty cents will buy the Cards a cup of coffee. Nobody knows who will win this series.
Next game a must win. Is lannan on this roster. Gotta go short leash with Edwin if he is.
And Mark Z., you can now take away the asterisk: Game 4 is now very necessary.
Willie o I hope I am dead wrong. But if I had to bet on it I got Cards in 4.. Sorry. We really needed the braves to have won.
ehay2k said...
Mark, you forgot to mention a horrible morphing strike zone from Marvin Hudson. Frees got to a 3-0 count on what were clearly 2 strikes, and one that was borderline. Previous pitchers had gotten strikes to balls thrown there.
I'm not going to blame the umpires at all, but, I agree, Hudson is a jerk and I felt his strike zone was petty towards Suzuki on all his at bats.
Lannan, remarkably, is not. I could have done without some of these relievers who have been ineffective lately.
Secret wasian man
I think Ejac could have a great game, i just hope we hit the ball
Secret Wasian,
Great season, but I agree we have to admit the Cards are a better team. "Developing" talent is only going to get you so far. If you want to win in October, you must get the players who excel at that time of year. We have Werth, but no Beltran, and that is the difference. We could've had Pujols, but went the Tampa Bay route. Where is Tampa Bay now? Where are the Yankees and Cards year in and year out? All in all, though, I think it has been a wildly successful season given our strategy and am satisfied.
Wow no Lannan. Bad move. Better score a lot of runs. Ughhhhh
It could have been worse. We might have had CMW out there on Tuesday....
DJB and mick. Lets not write them off yet. They are very resilient. But we MUST get a quality start.
I think the winner Wednesday wins the series.
Nobody knows whether experience matters at all for winning in the post-season. That is just something that older people say because it makes it seem like they deserve their comfortable positions. My feeling is that experience makes zero difference, unless you are including experience in skill level.
Anyone who thinks they have this thing figured out, please go check the box scores from the 1960 World Series and tell me if the better team won between the Pirates and Yankees.
Matheney just daid Garcia's arm was sore getting an MRI. We couldn't hit him
There have been several occasions where teams have come back from 2-0, and obviously more where teams come back from 2-1. No team has ever come back from a 3-2 deficit in a five game series in the history of MLB, however.
DJB - why are you writing the Nats off for the rest of the playoffs? You call out that we "could've had Pujols" and then cite the Cards' success. THEY don't have Pujols either, and the team that does is NOT in the playoffs. Didn't even make the wild card.
We just took a split off the WS champs in their home ballpark. That seems successful to me.
DJB here is what we have to keep in perspective... yes, it will be very difficult for all of us fans to deal with a first round loss, however, taking a step back and looking at the long term plan and MLB history let me make the following 4 points:
1) Life is not fair (somehow I think we all know that, lol) and just because it has been 79 years does not mean that the Nats have to win or get to a World Series in 2012
2) The reality was that from the front office, to Rizzo to Davey and the coaches, and Charlie Manual who said it best a year ago that the Nationals will begin a run of consistently winning and making post season in 2013 and beyond. The feeling in April was that the Nats would at least finish above 500 and contend the season for a post season berth until the end.
3) Rizzo and Davey know they are a few, a very few pieces away of being perhaps the best MLB for the next 7-10 years. So, this means 2012 was not a ONE YEAR DEAL!!
4) Historically, look at the successful franchises over the past 30 years and look how many of them have been one series and done when they first made post season. Remember, a WS is not guaranteed, the Braves have only won 1 over the past 20 years, but look at how many NLCS and WS they have appeared in. This is all you can ask
I am assuming we will win 3-1
The Houston Astros would have a decent chance of taking two of three from the Cardinals, if somehow MLB replaced the Nats and held the next three in the Astro's park, and the Astros really aren't that great a team if you think about it.
@DJB -- players who excel in October aren't usually readily available from the teams they've excelled on.
here is another positive.... now every Nat player has post season experience
At the beginning of April, maybe.
Anyone who watched the Nats play the entire month of April, except for the injuries, expected exactly what happened.
I may appear to be arguing both sides here, but I am not. However, it is garbage to say, "oh, we will win it next year." Ask the Cubs and Indians how that worked out with their great incipient dynasties of the 90's and early 00's.
You win a title when you can, but the Nats are more interested in building a franchise. I am not saying that is the wrong decision but it is irrelevant what someone in the Nats' office thought about their prospects in April. They are here with a chance to win now. If they blow it, they may never have another chance.
Next game a must win. Is lannan on this roster. Gotta go short leash with Edwin if he is.
Lannan is a left-hander with a propensity to implode quite rapidly against good right-handed hitters. The Cardinals are mostly good right-handed hitters without Berkmann. So? Lannan is off the roster ... c'mon he's a starter who fails miserably and consistently when he is put into games in relief!!
Stop being so ridiculous now!
And stop thinking Edwin is good he's not. I hope I'm wrong.
I am not disagreeing, Mick, but most Nats fans need to also focus on what you said about the Braves. Would you rather be the Marlins or the Braves? The Marlins have more titles than the Atlanta Braves, and only one fewer than the Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves have combined. The Braves have generally been great for about 20 years, after being terrible from 1970 until 1982 and then usually crummy until the early 90's.
Some fans would rather win a title than be a franchise that is always competitive but that never wins. Nothing is guaranteed. It is a crapshoot in the post-season, but certainly pitching Jackson instead of Strasburg diminishes their chances a few percentage points and that can make a difference.
We could've had Pujols, but went the Tampa Bay route. Where is Tampa Bay now? Where are the Yankees and Cards year in and year out?
Who won more games? The Yankees? Tampa Bay? Both could not handle the the pieced together from scraps Orioles! And the great and powerful Angels with Pujols AND probably MVP Trout? Where did they finish?
THE NATS WON 98 GAMES AND BEAT THEM ALL!
Now we have slipped from silly to moronic in the gloom and doom brigade.
Okay, we said we wanted a split in St. Louis, and we got it. Now we just need to win two out of three at home. GO NATS!!!
William O. Douglas Loeffler
your point is well taken, however, let me say this the Cubs were cursed, I know you think I am nuts (I am, lol) but how else do you explain the Cubs, i believe te goat and all that stuff, lol
As far as the Indians go and lets us throw in some other teams who have NEVER won it all, Texas since 1972 and Brewers since 1970, thye all have a common chacteristic (Texas of recent an exception) they do not build with in and long term, these teams historically have had a lousy minor league system and their scouts have sucked.
In fact look at Texas over the past 5 years, they have been in 2 back to back WS, because they are built to compete every year. I made an inaccurate post the other day about Texas when i said their window may be over, Natslady correctly pointed out that their farm system, like the Nats is loaded
I hope to be apologizing to you PERIC on Wednesday evening I really do
Notice the Cards did no replace Pujols with a farm hand, but a proven October player like Beltran. You have to include these players to be perennial contenders. You all know I've not been a fan of Zimmerman. He is talented, but just too inconsistent. You take players in their late 20's/early 30's with high historic OPS with October experience and stick them in the middle of your lineup. Same with pitchers. Watch the Yanks tonight. I bet Pettite pitches a gem. You need those players.
Nothing is guaranteed. It is a crapshoot in the post-season, but certainly pitching Jackson instead of Strasburg diminishes their chances a few percentage points and that can make a difference.
I might agree except for the Tommy Johns. Look at Zimmermann's performance today ... and he really wasn't as strong coming out in the 2nd half as expected.
That surgery isn't a quick fix. It requires more than a year of rehab to get past it ... just look at Christian Garcia.
I think Stras might have been lit up by the Cards as a result. There's no telling ...
Please no more lefty relievers to face the cards lineup. Burnett looked horrid today, everything up, every ball hit hard. Right now I only have faith in Garcia, Mattheus, Clip and Storen. Hopefully EJax can go deep enough to get it to the A bullpen. I can't think Carpenter will be the same guys as last year.
I know Lannan's stats and stuff aren't that great. I guess it gets down to whether some guys are better than their stuff. Stats guys say no. I am not sure. All I know is that basically every Washington needed a clutch performance this year, Lannan came through. Maybe it was luck, but I am not sure you can say that about anyone else on the staff.
It is concerning how we seem to get shellacked by the Cards, but look at the two series against the Phils last couple of weeks. We knocked one of those Phillies' pitchers out in the 2nd one game and won easily and then he shut us down the next week.
Baseball is more like golf than it is like football or basketball....
Same with pitchers. Watch the Yanks tonight. I bet Pettite pitches a gem. You need those players.
Did the Yankees win 98 games in 2012? How many did they win? Was Petitie or Sabathia 20 game winners?
Bah more foolishness. The Yankees are getting OLD AND WEAK, the Nats ARE YOUNG AND STRONG. The Yankees will FALL and the Nats are rising. And Tampa Bay? Look at their owner constrained payroll. Imagine TB and all of those prospects with the Nats ownership? The Yankees and BoSox wouldn't have a chance.
William O. Douglas Loeffler
good points , now when I hit 80 years plus (please Lord, see that happens, lol) and the Nats have not won the WS yet, them yes, I would like to be like the Marlins, lol
I know Lannan's stats and stuff aren't that great. I guess it gets down to whether some guys are better than their stuff. Stats guys say no.
Davey had a quick hook with him that's a big part of it. Lannan needs to be rescued he can't survive more than 3 times through a batting order if that. Its just the way he is. Against the Cardinals looks like the sheep about to be led to slaughter.
Mick, one interesting thing about MLB is that the expansion factor seems to last decades! Most of the worst franchises are former expansion teams from the 60's and 70's: Montreal, Texas, Houston, Mets, Seattle, Rockies, Royals, Blue Jays, Angels and Diamondbacks.
We have seen some life at times in some of these cities and a couple of them have won titles but they seem to generally regress. Maybe Texas and the Angels have turned the corner but people thought that about Toronto in the 90's. These may have been marginal cities to begin with. I guess we will see if the DC/Baltimore area is among these, with the Nats coming from the Expos and the O's coming from the dreadful Browns....
Wow, Legion of Doom on a recruiting binge. One game, people. One game.
It's like Mark called it yesterday. The playoffs are an emotional meat grinder.
Now, everyone, back away from the ledge...
good points , now when I hit 80 years plus (please Lord, see that happens, lol) and the Nats have not won the WS yet, them yes, I would like to be like the Marlins, lol
Actually, Ted Lerner ACTUALLY IS! And if you read George Solomon's article you would have learned that every time an opportunity to get a baseball team to DC arose Shirley Povich would have someone contact Te3d Lerner to see if he was interested. And you know how far back that goes Mick.
And here Ted is. NOT getting Pujols, Fielder, etc, etc. Instead building from within ... using the draft ... building a team that can contend over the long haul and not for one year and out. Why given his age?
BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY. But, they aren't going to be a farm franchise for teams like the Yankees the way Tampa Bay has become, instead they are going to keep their top talent long-term.
I love the way that if a person posts during a bad game or a loss, he belongs to the Legion of Doom. Isn't it actually more true, that the people who post at these times are the true fans, and not just bandwagon types?
I would no more jump off a ledge after a Nats' play-off loss than I would after the Redskins lose an opening coin-flip....
Mick, your long-term perspective is admirable, but beisbol (like any pro sport) is all about winning NOW. Yeah, as a Nats fan, I agree...the future's so bright we gotta wear shades.
But c'mon all of ya give-ups (Wasian, talkin' to you specifically)...you've lost the faith already?
When my son and I bought the 5 game plan back in March it was for the cheapest seats in the house. (section_222, hollah!). I figured it was time to spend some dollars on our baseball team, no matter how rotten they'd probably be again.
Game 1 -- Nats vs. Birds. Who's pitching? EJax. Early May. Gets touched early and then settles down into a George Clinton groove. Markakis dings in extras and we lose. EJax pitched very well that night and no, he wasn't on the mound for the homer.
Game 2 -- Nats vs. Giants. The Derecho game. I'd spent 4 days without power at that point. Do you remember how incredibly stinking hot it was on The Fourth? I called my son in the morning and told him there was no way I was going to deal with this furnace. His power was back. He said, Dad, I understand, come on over. So instead of sweating my arse off again, I get AC and burgers and Natties. Pitcher that day: EJax. Got touched early and then settled down into that Bootsie Collins groove. We crushed SF that day.
Game 3 -- The Mets. August. Same performance by EJax except none of our guys can hit. A depressing loss, and then Third Eye Blind plays a concert afterwards. I kinda like their music but that night I wanted to cry.
So...three Edwin Jackson performances, three strong outings. The guy's a professional. He's exactly who we need Wednesday afternoon.
It's perfect. We got this.
Stop worrying, y'all!
Whyyyyyyyyyyyy do our hitters expand the strike zone for k's over and over and over and over. Ted Williams first rule in the science of hitting 1) You gotta get a good pitch to hit. It is just brutal to watch such pitiful approaches at the plate. i've been saying for 2 years that eck has to go. We need a professional big league hitting coach in here. But I knowwwww....he's working hard
'I win wherever I am.'
http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8466093/looking-back-bryce-harper-thrilling-rookie-season
Just finished reading Teddy Ballgame's biography. He was an excellent pilot and fly fisherman. As a manager, not so great. He did have one winning season with the Nats/Rangers, but basically had to win 9 games in a row at the end of the season to finish fourth with an 86-76, but it was the last winning year in Washington since Buddha knows when....
Peric,
Nice idea about winning the right way, only how do you know Stras and Bryce will be here six years from now? You win, and then find out a way to win again. If that means replacing Pujols with Beltran, you do it. You need a young core, but you need the old farts as well.
Big Cat, there is some great stuff on the Net about Eddie "the Walking Man" Yost, who along with Ted Williams, had a Washington connection. Yost probably had the best hitting eye of any player in history, who was not a great hitter. If you look at all time walk totals, you have all the usual suspects, your Ruth's, Williams's, Mantle's and Bonds's and then you have Eddie.
I am thinking that we might be returning to the ideal of players trying to stay in one city like Larkin and Zimmerman and Jeter. Pujols went against that, but that was some crazy money they offered and Pujols was not crazy. Sometimes it works. I think Werth was werth it, but obviously you could argue that he was terrible last year and hurt this year.
One thing about Werth is that he made a commitment to our area and moved here. It would have been easy to stay in Philly.
Did anyone really think we were just going to show up in St. Louis, after some down time,and easily win two games against the defending world champions? Does anyone really think these guys are not affected by the pressure? The Nats went from never having a winning season, to being in first place most of the year, with a huge target on their backs every day, with the strasburg hoopla going on, to the best record in baseball, to the playoffs - and we don't think there is any accumulated mental strain? I can't believe the mental toughness of these kids. They are now in elite company. Everything is gravy now, they are playing with house money. It's also part if the school of hard knocks for the future. They need to experience this if they plan on competing in future years. Years when we have a mature Bryce, a settled Espi, a full season of Stras and they know how to handle this. Today was tough to watch, but a necessary step.Easy teaches you nothing. As much as I would love to see them move on, like a fairy tale, I am so proud of them for this season. They will all give everything they have to this effort. They have battled all season. I just can't bring myself to get down on them.
Harper by the way said it was cool that Chipper played 20 years with the Braves and said that woul cool for him to do. I am not counting him gone.
Ks are one thing Big Cat but k's on pitches not near the zone is the hitters biggest fault.
You need a young core, but you need the old farts as well.
Look at Pujols record. Now look at Fielder's record. Now look at LaRoche.
Its a good thing Rizzo is the GM and not the casual fan is all I can say.
It seems like the Giants did better when Willie Mays was younger, as opposed to when he had a lot of experience. What if a guy is like 35 and in the play-offs for the first time? Is he just like screwed?
All those hundreds and hundreds of games they play in Little League and high school and college and the minors and grapefruit league and the regular season don't prepare you for the play-offs?
What about guys in sports who do great in their teens but then flame out? Why didn't their experience make the difference?
I am sorry but can't we ever talk about sports without using meaningless cliches. In sports that lack random elements more so than other sports, generally, the most talented guys win.
In tennis, you have about four guys who win big matches. In golf, which has a huge random factor, almost any player can win any weekend. There simply is not much, if any difference between St. Louis and Washington in terms of talent. Both teams had some bad injuries and lost starters. Both had good run differentials. I think the Nats are slightly better but I don't think experience will have much of anything to do with the outcome. Random elements will.
I didnt think it would be easy but I expected 2 victory. But then again I expect 162 every season.
Harper by the way said it was cool that Chipper played 20 years with the Braves and said that woul cool for him to do. I am not counting him gone.
As long as the Lerner's own the team and Rizzo is the GM I think you can safely count on Harper and Strasburg being there for the long-term.
But Ted isn't young anymore ... so ... there's that. I guess Mark would keep things pretty much the same ... but you just never know ...
I didnt think it would be easy but I expected 2 victory. But then again I expect 162 every season.
Its a learning experience for the young baby Nats. One thing about our baby Nats, both with the Nats and with the A's; They learn fast.
From what I have read Mark is making the calls
One thing they have not learned fast: Not to swings at balls. I bet less than 50% of strike out were recorded where they eirher didnt swing at ball, or let a fast ball go right done the middle.
Another thing to learn for future: starting pitchers need to cut to 13 inningings per inning
Peric and zregime good points
Peric, your points on Ted Lerner is very good
I agree about Harper. Mickey Mantle played on one team. Hank Aaron and Willie Mays basically did with an asterisk, because their franchises moved. Joe Dimaggio did. Yogi Berra did. Johnny Bench did. Lou Gehrig did. All things being equal, it is always cooler to play in one city.
One man's version of working the count, is another man's version of standing there with the bat on your shoulder.... I do think that guys like LaRoche and Werth, and Harper over time, get a lot of the close calls based on reputation for having a good eye. Eddie Yost said that his image sort of steamrolled and he started getting most of the close calls....
Ecksein must be coaching NYY and the O's as at lrast one swing per at bat batters swings at a ball.
Not sure why so many bad swings throughout baseball.
Here is something that articulates what I feel is true about "experience":
Postseason experience probably correlates positively with actual talent because good players are more likely to make it to the postseason than bad players. The teams without postseason experience are more likely to be flukes - their true talent level is probably lower than their pythag.
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/post_season_experience_matters/
um, Beltran doesn't play 1B.
Notice the Cards did no replace Pujols with a farm hand, but a proven October player like Beltran.
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