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File photo by Rachel Zuckerman / NATS INSIDER Stephen Strasburg never made it to the mound tonight due to a stiff shoulder. |
Many in the crowd booed.
"Imagine, if you go there to see Miss Universe and you end up having Miss Iowa, you might get those kind of boos," Batista said in perhaps the one-liner of the year. "But it's OK. They had to understand that as an organization we have to make sure the kid is fine."
That was the prevailing sentiment at the end of the night. Whether Strasburg is seriously injured or not -- and initial signs point to it being nothing more than some shoulder inflammation -- the Nationals intend to take the cautious route with their $15.1 million investment.
Which means there's a very real possibility he's thrown his last pitch of the season.
Mike Rizzo wouldn't make any declarations like that after tonight's game -- which, it should be noted, featured fabulous performances by Miguel Batista, Sean Burnett, Drew Storen, Matt Capps, Nyjer Morgan and Ian Desmond that resulted in a 3-0 victory -- but the general manager did seem to suggest he's not going to take any chances here.
"I want to see where he's at tomorrow," Rizzo said. "We're not going to eliminate anything. But we're going to be cautious with him."
It's hard to imagine Strasburg showing up tomorrow feeling fine and dandy, ready to fire up 100 mph fastballs in the bullpen. At best, it'll probably be several days before he's capable of that. Which probably puts his next scheduled start (Sunday against the Phillies) in jeopardy. Which raises the question of whether Strasburg will return to pitch this season at all.
Think about it. If Strasburg can't start this weekend, he probably gets shut down and placed on the 15-day disabled list. As we've seen with other pitchers, even a two-week DL stint requires a resumption of a throwing program from scratch, and thus minor-league rehab starts. It's at least a month, maybe longer, until the pitcher is ready to return to the majors. (Just look at Scott Olsen.)
Rizzo insisted he wouldn't have a problem shutting Strasburg down briefly and bringing him back before season's end.
"We're going to play that by ear, take it on a day-by-day basis," the GM said. "Depending on what time of the season we'd shut him down, we'd certainly crank him back up and pitch him again when he feels 100 percent."
But does a late-August or early-September return really make sense? Why risk anything else happening at that point?
Few would fault Rizzo if he elects to declare Strasburg's season over right now. Sure, there will be some fans upset they've already bought tickets to potential Strasburg starts and now will be stuck with -- as Batista brilliantly referred to himself -- Miss Iowa. But fans have known all along there were no guarantees with Strasburg. The caveats have been stated repeatedly since June: "Subject to change based on weather or injuries."
"A lot of people come to see Stephen Strasburg pitch and are disappointed in the fact they're not going to be able to see him," Rizzo said. "But unfortunately, I can't worry about that. I need to worry about the longevity of the pitcher and what's good for the franchise."
Even opposing players understand the situation the Nationals now find themselves.
"For him not to pitch was a little disappointing, but I applaud what the Nationals did because that's their franchise for the next 15 years," Braves third baseman Chipper Jones said. "If he wakes up with a hangnail, I'm holding him out. I want to protect my investment, protect that arm for the next 20 years. Because as he goes, they're going to go."
That's right. If the Nationals are going to have any chance of winning in the next few seasons, Strasburg is going to have to play a major role.
They're obviously not winning anything this year. Why risk damaging your chances in 2011 and beyond just to see if he can return in 2010?
This was an unexpected development in an otherwise fairytale season for the most-hyped rookie baseball has ever seen. And it's a potentially crushing development for fans and for a franchise that struck gold with this kid.
But if the decision comes down to letting Strasburg return to pitch a few more times in 2010 or waiting until 2011 to bring him back, it would be hard to fault Rizzo and the Nationals for sticking with the cautious route.
57 comments:
You can tell how baseball players respect SS's presence. Comments from Chipper and Miguel show how a 162 game schedule brings even opposing players together.
Another good article Mark, written by someone whose understanding of the game is only exceeded by his respect for those who play it. I'll bet that there are Yankee fans who enjoy your blog.
I agree 100% with Rizzo for once. I thought the booing was bush league.
I agree with Rizzo too....Doesn't mean i wouldn't have booed if i was at the game.
I believe as a precaution he will miss his next turn and then if on Monday his bullpen is still rough he will go on the DL and we will not see him again until after the rosters are expanded and even then we might only see him out of the bullpen ala David Price's rookie year.
Boo? you have got to be kidding me. To me booing is serious business. No one in his right mind would boo this situation. to have sent him out under the circumstances would have been worthy of a boo. I have only resorted to the boo once this season, when Morgan threw his glove off. That my friends was a booable act.
I was at the game last night, and although I didn't boo when Batista was introduced, I understand those who did. It was quite a shock - we all show up jazzed to see Strasburg (during the pre-game, the scoreboard had messages like "I came from Cincinnati just to see Strasburg", "I came from Guam to see Strasburg pitch"), and then all of a sudden, without announcing why, Batista shows up on the mound. People were not booing Batista, they were booing the fact that they would not get to see the phenom.
I think the Nationals should have announced that Strasburg was scratched just before the Nats took the field; then the booing could have happened apart from Batista.
After watching the destruction of Sean Hill, Chad Cordero, John Patterson, and on and on -- I'm glad to see that the Nationals are finally getting the message that they have doctors, trainers and MRIs for a reason, and that maybe it's better to lose a pitcher for a game than to keep him in and lose him for the long term.
Question -- how common is it (on other teams) for a pitcher to be scratched in one game, but make his start in the next? I mean, we're starting the apocalyptic scenarios when the Nats have tried to take out a pitcher at the first sign of problems, but do other teams find that shoulder tightness in one game means that the season is over?
Strasburg: Day to day.
Dave Sheinin: On suicide watch.
Yeah I booed. I admit it. I won't claim that I was booing as a general protest, either. I would normally boo Bautista as a mater of course.
Until last night I don't think I had ever seen him not automatically give up 2 runs.
But I was wrong. I publicly apologize, Jose.
I applauded him when he left. Well done.
I paid $22 for my cheap seats and got my money's worth. The Nats won a boring game. It was a pleasant night. I got to hear something besides Bob Marley at the end of the game.
BTW, Adam Kilgore reporting or suggesting that there was some kind of mass exodus early in the game is patently false. I had a good view of the center field gate from my nose bleed seats, and there was hardly a trickle until the bottom of the 8th.
I was at the game, but certainly didn't boo. You've got to be cautious with this guy. Having said that though, if he can pitch again, I believe he should. I think it's important to get him up in the 150-160 inning range so he can be more prepared for 180-200 innings next year. If we shut him down now, strictly out of fear, then you have to limit him to 160 next season. Hopefully it just aches and pains, and he's back out there relatively quickly. Ultimately, you can't put the guy in a glass case, he's here to pitch. If he's hurt, he's hurt, but if he's just sore then you've got to let him pitch thru it. I'm extremely curious to know how he feels today.
As a point of procedure, can we never mention Shawn Hill ever again? We don't need that kind of mojo right now.
Strasburg needs to get in another 40 or so innings this year. I think that right now, he's at 109 combined minors/majors innings. If he doesn't get stretched out more this year, then they'll probably cap his innings next year at 160-180 - less than a full season.
If it's just shoulder pain - probably dead arm at this point as he's getting used to pitching every five days - then a few days rest, maybe a cortisone shot and at worst missing his next start and he should be fine. He can pitch all of August with 4-5 starts, then get in at least 2 or 3 more in September.
Mark (or anyone with thoughts):
Do you think that last night's "happenings" re-affirm to the Nats brass the importance of pitching? Rizzo is always talking pitching, so could this episode increase the likelihood that someone will be traded this week for a "major league ready" pitcher? On the flip side of that argument, does last night's episode mean that Capps is less likely to be traded?
court is spot on.
I'm surprised Mark didn't mention this - of course you could fault Rizzo for shutting him down out of fear or excess caution. Baby gloves: yes, shutdown at the first hint of any issue: no. If this is all about his future and development as a Nat, and it is, he's got to throw more innings this year.
Also: "To me booing is serious business". I understand your sentiment, but to me booing is pretty much the furthest thing from serious business. In fact, BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. It's fun.
Postgame fan press conference transcript from Fan Club Manager Jack Ruggleman:
"Well folks, obviously it wasn't a great effort out there tonight. It seems like some days we have great attendance and poor behavior, other days we have perfect fans but low numbers. But mark my words, when this fanbase puts them both together, we'll have something special here in DC. I can tell in the bathrooms and concession lines, this is a special group we've got here. They may not lead the league in ratings or attendance, but they always give it their all."
"On the booing: Obviously it wasn't what you want to see from your fans. But I think it's important to remember that it was a mistake of execution, not one of effort. I'd rather have fans out there who are trying their hardest and giving 100%, even if they make a few mistakes, then fans who don't care about the game."
"Finally, I want to talk about the decision to seat some fans and not others. I know we have some great fans- knowledgeable, courteous, enthusiastic- who didn't make it into the game tonight. And sure, some of the fans in the game made some mistakes, including some booing and some standing in the aisles during pitches. But I think it's important that we get those fans in the seats so they can see some pitches. That's all I have to say about that. Also, we had right-handed beer vendors working tonight, so I wanted to get the lefty fans out there."
Sitting up in the Gallery Level last night, I sensed that something was amiss when nothing seemed to be happening after they did the anthem. No "starting nine" out on the field, no announcement of the Nats lineup, no one saying "Washington Nationals, let's play ball!", even though the scoreboard clock said it was already past 7:05. Some guy sitting in the row behind me who was listening to the radio said "Strasburg's been scratched." Then the team came out, they did a quick lineup announcement, the boos cascaded down and Batista went to work. Halfway through the second inning, some latecomers straggled into the seats behind me. One says to the other "Strasburg's not pitching." The other one looks out toward Batista on the mound and says "Yes he is, he's right there." I turned to the guy next to me and said "Boy, nice suntan Strasburg has."
BTW -- to Steve Magnusen: I appreciate your booing Miguel Batista as a matter of course. Great post. That said, if you're going to publicly, it should be to Miguel Batista, not to Jose Bautista. LOL
I was at the game but was on the ramps and didn't hear the boos. But once I got to a seat (I had a standing room seat 10$) there was a lot of commotion about what the hell was going on.
I was disappointed but I would not have booed. I go to a lot of games, but I met some folks who came from far away to see Stras and given what people were paying for tickets, paid a high price. That doesn't justify booing but I could see why people were upset. It is awesome to see stras pitch. Seen all his home starts.
I also heard some crap about how this was just a ploy to have stras pitch tonight so that the nats could sell out another game. Stupidest thing I've ever heard.
I was glad to see that most people stayed around. Certainly, all the seats that were sold weren't full but it was still a lot more people than most other games.
Good on the nats players for putting on a show for the crowd. I think this teams deserves credit for pulling together and playing well. I just wish they could do this every night.
And a question... Why is stras hurt? Has he had shoulder soreness in the past? Has he thrown more pitches this year than any year past? Is he throwing hard? This just seems to have come out of nowhere.
Oh yeah... Miss Universe is much better looking than Miss Iowa. That was funny.
We'll soon know more from the medical experts. SS, from Rizzo's press interview, has had these inflammation problems previously, which is not unusual for a pitcher that throws the way Stras does.
If he is not 'shut down', the inflmmation could lead to muscle tears, particularly if it involves the rotator cuff. Apart from making adjustments to SS's delivery mechanics, periodic down time, in the course of a season, may be something we have to accept.
Ultimately, the best course of action, in the long run, would probably involve working on pitching mechanics that lessen the specific stresses on his arm.
Hopefully, with Miss Iowa's, and the other 'beauty contestants' support, maybe the Nats can keep the ball rolling. Wish I was there to watch that game!
I agree with some of the previous posters that it's important to get Strasburg some more innings this year if at all possible. Put him on the 15 day DL to give his arm a rest and then bring him back presuming he's feeling fine. I'm assuming the DL move could be retroactive to his last appearance.
i'm on the "important to get the innings this season" bandwagon, too. not at the expense of risking long-term injury, but not bringing him back in late august/early sept after a DL stint just to be way overcautious about injury has its own short-sighted issues. it's important to get him his 150-160 IP this year so that by 2012 we have none of the innings limit crap to worry about.
This is an important decision for the Nats, but it's obviously not one that they have the necessary info to make yet.
If in a few days they see no inflammation and he reports feeling fine, I don't see a reason to deviate from the plan they already had for him--monitoring him along the way, obviously.
If he's not fine or if new problems arise, then they DL him or shut him down for the season, as appropriate--that seems pretty obvious.
But these aren't really decisions that need to be made or can to be made 18 hours later.
One of the things I love about Nationals fans -- at least the regular fans, there no matter who's pitching, no matter what team is in town -- is that we generally DON'T boo (except for bad umping). I was appalled that people booed OUR OWN PLAYER just for walking on the field! That's what Phillies "fans" do. Batista came in on short notice, did a great job and had a great attitude. And they did the right things by not pitching SS. The fair weather ticket buyers, there to be entertained, regardless of the needs of the team? Not so much.
I don't like the sound of this. When it comes to pitchers' arm problems, where there is smoke there is usually fire, especially with Nats pitchers.
Rizzo erring to the side of caution is the smart play, imo. No need for a full shutdown yet; See how SS feels on Thursday-Friday & move forward from there.
I was saying "Boo-urns"
JaneB, I agree, but Nats fans (those on this blog in particular) have got to get used to one fact: this team's fanbase is going to grow with winning, SS, Znn, Harper, etc, which is a great thing, but it will grow maybe 20% by winning over real baseball fans who've had other allegiances, and 80% by more casual fans and frontrunners. These folks will often behave more like the WFAN crowd and boo for fun. They will often mistake Miguel Batista for Jose Bautista or for Steven Strasburg (not picking on anyone above, just a convenient example). They will be less hardcore baseball fans and more Kasten's 'disposable income' prey.
I welcome all the good that will come with better attendence, merchandise and TV numbers, but I'm coming to terms that most blog comment streams and internet chats will become downright unreadable, and that we'll be embarrassed at the park from time to time with fellow fan behavior.
Also, I apologize to everyone: I opened a birthday present last night 10 minutes before first pitch: a Strasburg jersey t-shirt. I can only assume my betrayal of my lucky Schneider shirt caused the shoulder inflammation.
And erocks33: well played.
Are you kidding me, with the team we've had the past few years if you don't boo you're just a homer. The lack of effort, lack of talent, idiotic manager moves, etc, etc the Nats have definitely deserved to be booed and I have certainly done it when warranted. Just blindly cheering because "you're a fan" is ridiculous
erocks33: Love it! Was Señor Spielbergo sitting next to you at the time?
Anyone who boos any National or the team as a whole IS NOT A FAN, I repeat, IS NOT A FAN.
You paid for a ticket you saw a game, you even saw a win. Sure you bandwagoners can be dissappointed that you did not get to see Strasburg with your non-season tickets but you have no right to BOO at all!!!
I long for teh days when there were 3,00 fans who cared at the ballpark versus 37,000+ who don't know a lick about baseball.
I am sure there were a lot of people that traveled a long way to see Strasburg pitch and the only reason they were there was to see Strasburg pitch.
Then there were those that paid ticket brokers BIG premiums to get their tickets.
I took the booing to mean disappointment and I am sure it wasnt from Nationals fans rather those that were there strictly to see Strasburg and then "mob mentality" as a few more joined in with smirks on their faces.
I'm just hoping for an organized protest by current and former Miss Iowas (or is it Misses Iowa?), including the current Miss Iowa, the lovely and talented Pauli Mayfield. Maybe a March on Washington, or a bloody tiara left in Batista's locker.
Miss Iowa 2010 isn't too shabby:
http://www.missiowausa.com/ia_miss_photos.cfm
If he does get shut down, it's a shame he lost his rookie status for next year by 4 & 1/2 innings.
I was at the game and I think it was more of an "AWWWW" of disappointment than an actual boo. And for the people that think booing isn't permissible, get used to it. In fact, I think the crowd at Nats field is generally one of the weakest in the DC area. I can't even get off a simple, clean heckle like "David Wright? More like David WRONG!" at home game vs. the Mets without getting a bunch of dirty looks and shooshes. The cheering there is so tepid. So I, for one, welcome the enthusiasm, either positive or negative.
And as for the Strasburg shoulder stiffness: PANIC.
Natsfanwhoboos-
I don't agree with what you call "ridiculous."
I'd say booing is entirely a regional cultural thing. There are passionate fanbases in Minnesota and St. Louis that almost never boo unless a player dogs it, or an opponent shows them up. Red Sox fans will boo a player who's underperforming, even if he's giving full effort. New York fans will readily boo any opponent or an overpaid star. Philly fans will boo their mother when they come upstairs for breakfast.
Sorry, Brian, Miguel Bautista. I suppose you mangled my name to make a point. (At least I sign my real, full name). Anyway, fans will boo. Sometimes they will boo their own teams. The players are big boys. And if they can't take it, well they can drive home in their Mercedes and cry on the shoulders of their smoking hot wives or groupies.
I doubt most of the booing fans were directing their disappointment directly at Bautista. Let's face it, 75 percent of the folks there had probably never heard of the guy, and had no opinion of him one way or another. They were just unhappy overall.
Ok, let's get this straight. People did not boo Miguel Batista last night. They booed because they were disappointed that the guy they had come to see wasn't going to be on the mound. They realized that when they saw Batista coming out; there had been no announcement or explanation up to that moment. It was a natural and understandable reaction, and people should quit obsessing about it.
The more important fact is that a huge portion of the sellout crowd stayed at the park and saw a great game. I looked around in the 9th inning and there had to be 30,000 people in the stands. So give the fair weather fans some credit and quit criticizing them for displaying natural human emotion.
@Pete Batista's wishes he was Miss Iowa in this scenario!
Being disappointed is one thing, but booing is another. However, I have to strongly disagree with those that think there is no place for booing the home team. As was pointed out, if you've watched any decent amount of Nats games, you've seen many, many plays and players that deserved booing. These are paid professionals and when they don't do the job that they are being paid to do, then booing is fair game. Being a true fan means that you care. And if you care, then terrible plays will get to you and if you choose to boo, then have at it. One can be a true fan and still be objective about the play and players they root for. Blind appreciation is for suckers.
I, too, was at the game last night and, yeah, ditto what Section 222 said! The booing was due to disappointment and not directed at Batista. (I didn't boo, of course. I've only booed once, at a Nats game this year when years of frustration suddenly ovewhelmed me on play where a seeming lack of fundamentals caused a real bone-headed play. I like the sentiments expressed by other bloggers, though, who think booing reflects a very much needed baseball passion in DC. I may boo again.)
Booing...Schmooing.... this post is about Strasburg.
Let me be the first to say, if he receives a shot of cortisone as one poster suggested, I say he's done for the season.
If, however, he is experiencing the discomfort that comes from pitching every fifth day with a 60-70 pitch throwing session in between, he may and probably is feeling shoulder tightness that he's never felt before.
Cudos to him for mentioning it and kudos to Rizzo for shutting him down.
This is akin to hitting the gym and increasing your normal work out to a point where soreness comes into play.
Hopefully, he'll have a session tomorrow or Friday and realize the soreness dissapates with a little longer session.
But absolutely NO CORTISONE!
If that's the real Miquel Batista, give me Miss Iowa any day. Batista did something that Jesus never has done: pitch shutout ball for his entire stint.
On booing: people were disappointed, that's all. Thank god it wasn't against Philadelphia, or else All Those Phillies Fans would have burned down the city, a la the British in 1812.
I was sitting next to Sec. 222 and he's right. People hung until the end of what might have been the Nats' cleanest game of the year.
For what it's worth: Jesus's next start? Opening Day, 2011.
I was there and I booed - Batista. He stepped in an picked the team up BUT that doen't mean that he belongs on this team taking a roster spot that one of our young arms could better fill. Can't remember the last time I booed the Nats, but you can be sure that I boo the other team regularly - especially Phillies and Braves.
I think Rizzo did the right thing being cautious w Strasburg, but I also agree that we need to get his inning up this year so we are not starting from the same 160 max innings limit again next year.
NatsJack
Your comment is very significant. How many Nats pitchers have tried to work through some kind of pain without telling anyone about it and ended up on the DL or worse? At least Strasburg is smart enought to tell someone there's a problem. Maybe it's the difference between being a lock to pitch long-term in the majors versus someone like Stammen who is on the bubble.
Even before last nite's Miss Iowa performance, I have never understood all the Batista hate (not just here but on other Natmosphere threads.
He's not spectacular, but teams could do a helluva lot worse than a multi-inning reliever with an ERA around 4. He's also only costing that Nats $1 mil, so it's not like he's a salary albatross. IMHO, a shrewd pickup by Rizzo.
It's nice for Riggleman that Rizzo made the decision.
It also ticks me off that some people just come to see Strasburg - they aren't even fair weather fans.
He'll pitch in Sunday's game or the next, or be on retroactive 15 day disabled list (AKA:10 day) pitch a little and then resume to start games. He needs to get to 160 innings and the Nats need to bring in fans. He is just exhausted and needs a break; it's not uncommon amongst pitchers in MLB. Go ahead and look up how many pitchers don't miss a start in the course of a season.
But, it is very convenient timing before the trade deadline for Rizzo to leverage the Lerners for a greenlight to trade for pitching prospects.
In the end, I hope we keep Dunn though...unfortunately, it's not looking that way at the moment.
P.S. - Let Teddy effin' win!
Teddy should never win! Let teddy suck!
agree with everything else.
I couldn't agree more with the other commenters writing that Strasburg needs to come back and pitch this season, if at all possible. If he doesn't reach his innings limit this year, I doubt the team will automatically increase next year's total to what it would have been. No, Strasburg needs to keep developing as a pitcher, and that includes throwing around 150 innings this year. If he doesn't, his development will be stunted by about a year.
Booing? Is fun? Well, yeah, if you like increasing negativity in the world.
As for dissing Miss Iowa . . . she's pretty darn hot.
See: http://www.n-vents.com/images/MissIowa-10.jpg
I would shut him down in a heart beat; you want to take a risk with your no. 1 asset? for what? are we going to make a playoff run?
Think Mark Prior; you think the Cubs would use him the same way if they had a do over?
If he pitches again this year the Nats better be pretty damn sure he is 100% healthy and worry about next year's innings next year.
Fortunately Rizzo is smart enough to see the forrest from the trees,
well *of course* if he's not healthy, you don't pitch him. i don't think anyone's advocating putting an injured strasburg out there just to get his innings in.
but if it's just a momentary tightness thing or a bit of minor swelling, when he's healthy again, don't be overcautious and hold him out anyway. he should be pitching as long as he's healthy and hasn't hit the innings cap.
I was there, didn't boo (Didn't see you Court-blame Dave K for that)... but I think it warrants pointing out that people weren't booing Batista so much as they were booing the situation. As in, they didn't have a problem w/Batista as much as they had a problem w/no Strasburg.
I, for one, was really excited and just wished there was more applause for a 9 SO Inning game pitched by the Bullpen, a last second 5 IP outing from Ms. Iowa and a 3-0 victory for Natstown Def an A+ effort from the pitching staff.
Also, I was really impressed how the crowd stuck around through the whole game for the most part. Hopefully some folks found out that baseball can be fun even if St. Stephen isn't on the mound.
If they shut him down now, is he eligible for the ROY award next year? just curious...I don't feel this would be a worthy reason to do it, but I'd love to see him get the add'l hardware as he's prob not in contention this year with a couple other rookies out there having GREAT seasons.
Kevin: Strasburg can't be considered a rookie again next year. You have to have pitched less than 50 innings, and he's currently at 54. So he's just past the threshold.
Is it just me or do we start to look at the strength and conditioning and the trainers of the Nats? It seems there are too many injuries in comparison. Good S and C and trainers will prevent most injuries
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