 |
| USA Today Sports Images |
In the market for some time for a veteran, right-handed-hitting outfielder to bolster their bench, the Nationals late last night acquired Scott Hairston and a player-to-be-named from the Cubs for minor-league right-hander Ivan Pineyro and another player-to-be-named.
The club officially announced the trade this morning, and Hairston is expected to be in uniform tonight when the Nationals open a four-game series in Philadelphia.
Hairston, 33, fills an obvious need for the Nationals, who have struggled to get production both from their bench (reserves are hitting a collective .174 with a .516 OPS) and against left-handed pitching (.215 batting average, .612 OPS) this season. The journeyman outfielder owns a career .813 OPS against left-handers, though that number has fallen to .684 this year.
The Nationals figure to use Hairston as a pinch-hitter late in games while giving him an occasional start against lefties, hoping he can provide some much-needed offensive punch to a club that has struggled to score runs all season (though has gotten hot in the last week, scoring eight or more runs in five of its last eight games).
A veteran of parts of 10 big-league seasons with the Diamondbacks, Padres, Athletics, Mets and Cubs, Hairston signed a two-year, $5 million contract with Chicago in February. Thus, the Nationals now control his rights through 2014, perhaps some extra incentive for general manager Mike Rizzo (who originally drafted Hairston in 2001 while serving as Arizona's scouting director) to make this deal.
Hairston comes from a long line of ballplayers. His grandfather, Sam, played for the White Sox in 1951. His father, Jerry, spent 14 seasons in the big leagues (mostly with the White Sox). His older brother, Jerry, has been a big leaguer the last 16 years and played for the Nationals in 2011.
Hairston's arrival will force the Nationals to remove someone off their active roster. The most likely candidate is Tyler Moore, who was the only member of Sunday's starting lineup not to reach base in an 11-7 win over the Padres. Since returning from Class AAA Syracuse two weeks ago, Moore is 1-for-11 with a homer.
Pineyro, 21, is 6-3 with a 3.24 ERA in 15 combined starts between low-Class A Hagerstown and high-Class A Potomac this season. Signed from his native Dominican Republic in 2010, the right-hander is 13-11 with a 3.17 ERA over three seasons in the Nationals' farm system.
143 comments:
Here's the ESPN write-up on Hairston:
Hey, look, another Cubs outfielder! Hairston doesn't have Soriano's name value, but his skill set is very similar. At 33 years old, Hairston has a nice track record as a guy who mashes left-handed pitching, but his aggressive approach at the plate limits his value to a part-time role. Signed by the Cubs over the winter to serve as a platoon outfielder, Hairston has hit just .160/.224/.372, and has basically fallen out of the Cubs' lineup at this point.
However, his offensive downturn is almost entirely based on hitting balls right at people. His walk rate, strikeout rate and isolated power are almost identical to his marks from last year with the Mets, when he posted a 118 wRC+ and was a high-quality role player.
His batting average on balls in play, however, is a staggeringly low .132, 155 points below his 2012 mark and easily the lowest of any hitter with at least 100 plate appearances this year. BABIP is much less predictive than other measures, especially over 100 plate appearances, and Hairston could easily go back to mashing left-handed pitching in the second half. For a team looking for a platoon outfielder, Hairston would be a nice low-cost option.
I think I like this move. What pitcher did we give up?
When it is confirmed will Scott be available to play on Monday night against the Phillies or will he have to do a physical and paper work first
Anything to boost our bench is a good move. Tracy, Lombo, and the Shark all are batting under the Mendoza line. This can't continue.
Oh, maybe it can. Hairston's numbers are in the toilet this year too.
sjm308 said...
Actually SonnyG, I was just hoping we kept him and wasn't looking that far ahead but it does make sense. When LaRoche has finished his contract, you move Ryan to first, Rendon back to third and hopefully let Espinosa take over 2nd. Now, if he continues his strikeouts and horrible OBP you certainly don't do that but we have control for several more years. I hated letting Lannan go when we still had control and he would have helped this year. I don't care all that much about their feelings, they are professional athletes and if they help our team more by staying in the minors then so be it.
July 08, 2013 12:06 AM
Precisely sjm.
I guess Tyler Moore's got a ticket to ride back to Syracuse with the reported acquisition of Hairston. First Espy, now Tyler, as Davey's sentimental, but underproducing favorites get sent packing.
Scott is a very minor tweak. He plays a little better outfield than Tyler, though he hasn't done much with the bat this year. He always seemed to be like a pesky gnat to the Nats when he played for the Mets. I'm not sure that Perez couldn't have given us as much, but Hairston does bring experience. Here's hoping Scott gets energized by the change of scenery.
I really hope Jordan, Karns, Ray, Cole, Giolito, Hill or Purke are not the minor leaguer. It would be exceptionally stupid to trade any of these guys for someone who is only marginally better than our current options.
This is exactly like the Gomes trade two years ago, which proved to be incredibly pointless. Acquire a poor hitting veteran corner outfielder, who continues to hit poorly with the Nats. Here's hoping the minor leaguer the Nats gave up turns out to be insignificant.
I doubt any of the guys you mentioned would be traded for the likes of Hairston. I would think that the Cubs would be happy to get a box of paper clips.
Gomes gave us one great moment in Nats history when he got the bases loaded walk off HBP against Brad Lidge and the Phillies. It was one of the last games when the park was filled with Phillie fans. It was a long ride back to South Philly for them that night.
I do put it in my posts because some people like it, but his is how silly run differential is even half-way through the season.
The Nats have exactly the same run differential as the Cubs (-10). The Cubs are 38-48 and 14.5 games out of first in the NL Central.
Let's imagine our bullpen had been nails, given up NO runs and let NO inherited runners score--and we had won 11-4, 5-1, 8-2, 8-2. Our run differential would be +13. We would still be 46-42 and 4 games back.
Seriously--is it time for Stammen to have shoulder inflammation and Garcia to come up and see how he's doing?
Hairston will be fine. He can spell Werth if necessary, and Harper if the knee acts up.
Four more games in the heat and humidity, then the boys play in air-conditioned comfort and then they get their well-deserved BREAK!
I doubt it will hurt Harper's swing to be in the Home Run Derby--doesn't he do that in batting practice anyway? He probably doesn't "deserve" to be in the ASG on merit, he's there for the show, so give the folks a show. Desi, on the other hand... sorry he won't go (because I have a hard time believing he'll beat out Puig), but he'll get a rest and time with family.
Just to be picky--but yes, Tyler Moore did reach first base yesterday-- he scorched a ball to the 5.5 hole and the shortstop could not handle it- ruled an error. Scorched two balls yesterday, not exactly a whiff machine. But I agree he probably goes.
Whoa yeah, oh yeah
Everythin' gonna be alright this mornin'
Oh yeah
I like the move
good veteran pick-up. unless the Cubs are picking up a lot of the salary I doubt the prospect going their way is significant
I'll leave it for y'all to rate the move, but props to Mark for posting after midnight on his day off. Dude's a gamer. :-)
Gomes did OK in Oakland last year, playing more often, like with 18 dingers.
Coming off the bench this year in Boston, and playing more regularly(DHing) than for the Nats he's still getting some knocks.
Hairston will fall into the same Mendoza trap as the others on the Nats' Goon Squad--not enough playing time.
Doubt that he'll hit anymore for us than he was doing with the Cubbies--which is only marginally better than TyMo was doing.
Thumbs up to natsfan1a, and of course to Mark!
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
Joe, definitely need bench upgrades and especially a true right-handed outfielder is needed.
July 07, 2013 9:09 PM
OK, yes I was looking for a real outfielder who can come off the bench. Problem is Scott Hairston isn't that feared bat that he was in NYM from 2012 when he had a .936 OPS as a PH. Now he slashes .217/.296/.391/.688 as a PH and is only a marginal improvement over TyMo not a major improvement.
I hope they didn't give up anything more than the equivalent of Cutter Dykstra.
A shame Tyler Moore couldn't embrace his role.
So what's happening to Stammen. He hasn't had a good outing in a good while????
I see a Garcia in his future.
Heyman is reporting that it's an A ball pitcher, meaning it's someone in Hagerstown or Potomac.
The Cubs have been stockpiling reclamation projects for a while, just acquiring Arrieta and Strop from the O's. My guess is they went for a similar type of player here- a guy whose career has been a bit derailed after having high expectations.
Sammy Solis fits that mold. Cameron Selik too. I'd be sad to see Solis go. He's just back from another injury, and his potential is too much for a 3 month rental. Selik is still injured, so I'm not sure the Cubs would want him. Could also be Robert Benincasa, which would truly make it an exact replica of the Gomes trade.
Otherwise in Hagerstown, perhaps it could be Nick Lee or Kylin Turnbull. Hopefully not Pedro Encarnacion, who's been just about the only noteworthy pitcher this season in Hagerstown.
Will, better not be Solis, Encarnacion, or Turnbull.
Swami, no disrespect meant, but Tyler is hitting .151 and yesterday, though Desi was the one rightfully charged with the throwing error, I honestly thought that was a pick that we have come to accept as a routine play by Adam LaRoche. Moore isn't getting enough time at first to stay polished there, and with Harper and Werth back he would be hard pressed to get much time in the OF. With Hairston here, "not much" becomes "none", I would think.
I was hoping that it was Ryan Perry, but he's not playing A ball.
Ghost, Turnbull has been miserable since he was drafted. 5.62 career ERA, and it's been worse this year. After a horrific start in Potomac, he was demoted and posted a 6.66 ERA in low A since.
He had high expectations when drafted, but at 23 he should be performing and higher than Hagerstown.
With that said, he certainly fits the reclamation mold. But I don't know if he's considered too far gone to be even worth Hairston.
But I totally agree about Solis, Encarnacion and, to a lesser extent, Pineyro.
I remember the angst when A J Morris and Chris Manno were traded.
I just realized Hairston is on a 2 year deal. That's silly. So are the Nats on the hook for the remaining $3.75m??
If so, they shouldn't be giving up much of anything.
However, my money is on Robert Benincasa being the one dealt.
Alexva, I'd still rather have Manno than those 100 ABs we wasted on Gomes and his .204 AVG.
Unfortunately injuries derailed Morris' career, but Gorzelanny wasn't quite a world-beater.
Today's tidbits:
- Bartolo Colon has now been named to three All-Star Games, each in separate decades.
- Ryan Zimmerman has 12 HR's lifetime in just 36 games against the Padres.
- In their last eight games the White Sox scored 17 runs. Before that, they scored 18 runs in a doubleheader in which they were swept.
- Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder pulled off a double steal
- The best ERA in baseball since June 4 belongs to… Jeremy Hefner
- Longest current winning steak in baseball is . . . five (D-Backs).
"Sammy Solis fits that mold."
Last I heard (2 days ago) Solis was in the GCL, not in single A at either Hagerstown or Potomac.
Yeah, I kinda figured NJ. Just giving your cheeky tongue some support.
I liked Gomes when he was with the Nats, and he's still producing. Again, though in Boston he's not getting the playing time that he did with the A's last year.
Bench strength is a different commodity in the good ol' NL than the AL.
Hope Hairston can help us a bit. Let the stats show, bench strength in the NL is an illusion. TyMo did well last year, mostly because he played more regularly.
On Gomes, did y'all even consider the MAR (Mohawks Above Replacement) factor? Didn't think so.
By all accounts Gomes was a great clubhouse person. Sometimes you have to look thru the numbers.
Mule is pleased with the prospect of another Hairston in a Nats uniform. This one (Scott), in particular, was a frequent Nats-killer when with the Mets. Better to have him inside the tent.
The Nats' bench need all the help it can get. Sending an offensively-non-performing (and defensively indifferent) younger player such as T.Moore back to the minors can only help both him and us.
At least one more bench move is indicated, although at this point Mule cannot foresee the next addition-by-substraction.
Joe Seamhead-- oh, I totally agree about Moore! Just correcting the statement that he was the only starter that did not get on base. If the organization did not see a future for him, they would let him languish on the bench. His development is stalled. But we are loaded with outfielders and 1b so what will they do with him back in AAA? Time to trade him? Would love to know where they see him in two years.
Hairston is a prototypical right handed veteran bench power hitter. Batting averages for such players are almost irrelevant. What you want is the potential big hit in a key situation.
For all the criticism of Chad Tracy he has hit 3 game winning/game tying home runs this year and the Nats have come back and won 2 of these games. Who cares what his batting average is? If he was a better overall hitter he would play every day.
Ivan Pinyero is the A pitcher.
They cannot trade Gioloto as he hasn't been in the organization for a year since the draft.
Solis has no value as he hasn't really done anything yet but rehab.
Giant kudos to Davie Johnson for understanding the big picture. When Storen failed in 2 games this past week several (many) posters wanted him shipped to Siberia. Davie understood that he needs Storen so he put him right back on the bike in a 5-4 game and co-incidentally got rewarded for his decision.
The newest whipping boy is Craig Stammen. Again Davie knows that he will this pitcher down the stretch, so rather than banishing him to the minors he keeps showing confidence in him. It's a good thing Davie doesn't manage like a fan.
There are probably more trades to come and Storen is probably being looked at.
JD, what stats are you looking at of Hairston? 1 HR as a Pinch-hitter and only a .391 slugging percentage as a Pinch-hitter.
Last year he was the best right-handed pinch hitter in baseball. This year he isn't even better than Chad Tracy's .395 slugging percentage and Tracy has 3 pinch-hit key HRs.
Rizzo makes a lot of moves that are based on what a player was and not what he is.
Look, it's certainly an upgrade over TyMo and maybe you get some bump moving Scotty H back to the NL East, but this isn't the RH OF upgrade I have been proposing for several weeks.
nats guy said...
There are probably more trades to come and Storen is probably being looked at.
I said that and got heckled by a few year. Storen can be a closer and the Red Sox are pursuing a closer.
Rizzo's new problem is that Craig Stammen just isn't pitching well which I detailed yesterday in charts.
Hairston could hit against us, hopefully he can hit for us.
I have to say... I would be surprised if we dealt Storen...
feeling good about this team...
Phillies look like they are going to be tough...with Pirates losing 2 in row to Cubs, is that a small bump for them or the beginning of a collapse? should be interesting. realistically, i would look for Reds to slide before Pirates...if both want to slide, that is fine too, lol
JD said...
The newest whipping boy is Craig Stammen. Again Davie knows that he will this pitcher down the stretch, so rather than banishing him to the minors he keeps showing confidence in him. It's a good thing Davie doesn't manage like a fan.
Do you bother to look at charts? Do you look at his vertical/horizontal movement on his pitches?
Davey can say and do whatever he wants but not too many Major Leaguers are going to miss this pitch like Stammen did to Chase Headley:
http://brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation_io.php-pitchSel=489334&game=gid_2013_07_07_sdnmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=64&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif
Stammen was lucky this was just a leadoff double and not a towering HR.
Eric...interesting post...you could be right, but.... who becomes midde relief? where is Matthues in terms of his rehab...with Stammen slumping right now, who would fill that role and...what would we get for Storen?
flashback to last season at this time, if i recall correctly, Stammen had a slump and then by late July he was solid..wonder if same thing is going on with him, or is he hurt?
Eric said...
I have to say... I would be surprised if we dealt Storen...
His trade value is high right now and any trade will depend on the health of Mattheus and CGar and righting the issues with Stammen.
I know for a fact Rizzo is receiving calls for Storen but clearly won't consider any trades until he feels he has a surplus of arms which he doesn't have right now.
I'll heckle some more Ghost. I really don't think Rizzo is going deal a former first round pick at what is essentially his lowest value since he arrived. Nor is a contending team going to entrust their closer spot to a guy who has been so inconsistent this year.
The thing I really like about the Hairston move is not the player, but what it shows about Rizzo's mindset. It's the first tangible sign that he realizes we cannot win with the bench we now have. As much as we wish TyMo could produce, he isn't doing the job this year. The Shark is safe because of his defense, as is Lombo, but the two guys who are there for hitting alone should be gone very soon.
And JD, you know I respect your views, but the only reason Tracy is still on the roster is those home runs. He is not playing well enough to stay for the stretch run. Time for some new blood.
Ghost, that's what I thought... any deal with Storen would have to be for another reliever due to lack of depth right now, so, it would appear not to make much sense to trade him
His trade value is high right now ...
I really don't think Rizzo is going deal a former first round pick at what is essentially his lowest value since he arrived.
Wow, is there such a thing as a reverse drink owed? :-)
I don't doubt Rizzo is getting calls, but I'll bet they aren't offering much. We shall see. His outing yesterday was impressive. I'd just as soon we keep him for awhile.
sec 222...even if we assume Nats starters stay healthy the rest of the way, you are right about the bench...that is why I really like the Hariston move..I still think Lombo can be a good back up offensively
As with all trades it depends on what you get. Rizzo will listen to offers on Storen but won't give him away but don't think for a second he is untouchable as some insist.
JD, why do you think in postgame pressers Davey protects Stammen but has been critical of Storen?
Everything Davey has said about Storen since Game 5 last year and a few times this year has been critical and absolutely true, but yesterday's post-game on Stammen was glowing as he said Stammen has been throwing good pitches and has been snakebit.
This isn't snakebit. This is just missing spots plus his movement isn't as good. He gave up 2 hits on his fastball, and 1 on his slider and 2 on his curveball.
http://brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation_io.php-pitchSel=489334&game=gid_2013_07_07_sdnmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif
http://brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/horzspeed.php-pitchSel=489334&game=gid_2013_07_07_sdnmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif
Now possibly Stammen is trying to throw a get 'em over fastball to the 1st batter but you still have to make it a quality strike!
I would say this...if Matthues was healthy and Stammen was not slumping...a Storen trade would be more likely...I do not see it happening unless some team's GM want to unload a very good hitter and sees Storen as a future stopper long term
if you can trade Wayne Gretsky you can trade Drew Storen
Section 222 said...
I'll heckle some more Ghost. I really don't think Rizzo is going deal a former first round pick at what is essentially his lowest value since he arrived. Nor is a contending team going to entrust their closer spot to a guy who has been so inconsistent this year.
It's only his lowest value if you accept a garbage trade. I wouldn't trade him for less than a top prospect. If nobody is offering that, you don't trade him. Rizzo isn't forced to make any trade.
You are correct, any team that would trade for him would put him into the set-up role 1st before any promotion.
Make that 13 homeruns against the Padres for Ryan Zimmerman.
Career .317/.391/.655 OPS=1.046
"Eric...interesting post...you could be right, but.... who becomes midde relief? where is Matthues in terms of his rehab...with Stammen slumping right now, who would fill that role and...what would we get for Storen?"
I was saying I'd be surprised if we *did* trade Storen...precisely because of the questions you raised.
wonder if O's are interested in Storen? both Nats and O's are contending and in different leagues.... who if anyone would O's give up?
I realize that after I posted Eric...your right
Some of you have to analyze in context. Rizzo gets phone calls all the time from other GMs and most times he tells them to get real. Billy Beane has probably called him a few times.
Storen had an amazing Saturday and Sunday. His changeup to freeze the lefty yesterday was one of the best pitches he has thrown in 2 years here. GMs who see the big picture have to be pondering his value.
Because of his age and team control he has more value than Matt Capps did and Rizzo shouldn't take anything less than a top prospect but right now the Nats need Drew Storen until Mattheus and CGar are ready and Stammen gets himself right.
here is a real crazy thought... would Nats trade Clip who is red hot and could Nats get 1-2 solid hitters and take a gamble on Storen being the set up guy and hope that Stammen and Matthues can come back strong?
just a thought.
"This isn't snakebit. This is just missing spots plus his movement isn't as good. He gave up 2 hits on his fastball, and 1 on his slider and 2 on his curveball. "
Isn't the definition of snakebit the inability to do what you've previously proven capable of doing?
>Some of you have to analyze in context.
I agree...imo in the context of this season, we need Storen unless we completely fall out of the running. I honestly don't see how we could do anything but hurt ourselves by trading any of our relievers with any significant stretches of success this season. Storen's ERA is terrible, but imo he's still played a pretty critical role in our Pythagorean defiance.
People can make fun of Jonny Gomes all they want, but he played with fire and determination. And that walkoff HBP against the Phillies noted by JoeS was one of my favorite moments of 2011. The look he gave Lidge after the ball hit him was absolutely awesome.
He's making $5 million with the Red Sox this year, which we know is way too much for a bench player in Rizzo's mind. But wouldn't you like to have his .743 OPS on the bench instead of the .478 (Moore) and .441 (Tracy) we now have?
mick said...
wonder if O's are interested in Storen? both Nats and O's are contending and in different leagues.... who if anyone would O's give up?
That won't happen. When people question deals, the Orioles traded Arrieta (7.23 ERA) and Strop who were down and out and Strop was a possible DFA and they got Scott Feldman who had a 3.40 ERA and instantly became the Os best pitcher statistically.
How have the Orioles in the past few years consistently get rid of garbage or bad contracts and get value back?
2 years ago it was Koji Uehara in a deadline deal to the Rangers for Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter.
Why couldn't Rizzo have made that Scott Feldman trade? Was Yunesky Maya not available to be traded at the time with Henry Rodriguez? That would be the equivalent trade.
Eric, you don't trade Storen unless you are flush with relievers and get back big prospects in return.
Last I checked, Rizzo hasn't totally lost his mind.
I know for a fact Rizzo is receiving calls for Storen...
Some of you have to analyze in context. Rizzo gets phone calls all the time from other GMs and most times he tells them to get real.
The second statement kind of undermines the significance of the first statement, doesn't it?
Ghost, I seem to have totally misinterpreted your intent...I thought you were arguing in favor of such a trade! Heh.
{{{ Interweb Communication }}}
It's Ivan Pinyero to the Cubs plus a PTBNL each way
Section 222 said...
People can make fun of Jonny Gomes all they want, but he played with fire and determination. And that walkoff HBP against the Phillies noted by JoeS was one of my favorite moments of 2011. The look he gave Lidge after the ball hit him was absolutely awesome.
He's making $5 million with the Red Sox this year, which we know is way too much for a bench player in Rizzo's mind. But wouldn't you like to have his .743 OPS on the bench instead of the .478 (Moore) and .441 (Tracy) we now have?
July 08, 2013 10:41 AM
You are correct and Gomes has been a great pickup for them but it doesn't mean he would've worked out here to what we consider "good".
TyMo and Tracy have been bad but Tracy has finally had several key moments in the last 50 days and it's hard to forget those 1st 45 days of the season.
Hairston based on 2013 stats is only a slight upgrade. Rizzo needed a big upgrade.
Is PTBNL actually like a wild card or is it just that the names aren't made public at the time of the trade?
Section 222 said...
I know for a fact Rizzo is receiving calls for Storen...
Some of you have to analyze in context. Rizzo gets phone calls all the time from other GMs and most times he tells them to get real.
The second statement kind of undermines the significance of the first statement, doesn't it?
July 08, 2013 10:45 AM
All that means is if Rizzo is blown away by an offer he will consider it otherwise the call is just another hangup.
The Nats aren't actively trying to trade anyone. Rizzo is in "buy" mode right now.
Stammen wasn't hit hard yesterday. He suffered seeing-eye hits and some bad D, including his own lack of full-speed coverage of 1st base when TyMo flipped him the ball but he was too late at the bag. Also on that play, LAR, had he been playing 1st, probably would've gone to 2nd base for the a force out, which was available. Anyway, Desi made a bad throw in the 8th that TyMo didn't handle, which LAR probably would've; Desi also made one good throw in that innning.
Wondering about Lombo. Lots of comments today that TyMo and Lombo shouldn't be/aren't performing as bench guys at this early stage in their careers. So, TyMo to Syracuse? ... and Lombo? Too many 2nd basemena already at Syracuse. Woulda loved to have seen TyMo and Lombo given the Espi chance: more than a year full-time work, but can understand the Nats' not being able to afford it since they were/are in the penant race last year and this.
Wasting no time, Hairston is en route to Philly for tonight's game.
TyMo will be back in September and leaves as a huge disappointment. 2 chances and couldn't do a thing with those chances. After yesterday's start, Rizzo knew what he had to do.
Even though Scott Hairston isn't a huge upgrade, it shouldn't stop Rizzo from upgrading above Hairston if someone better comes along.
As more teams drop out of contention, the pool of players will get larger.
Keep your eyes on the Royals. They are in 3rd place at 41-44 and Ervin Santana will be traded I believe as he will be a Free Agent. He has a 2.90 ERA and is a possibility as a short-term rental.
Isn't the definition of snakebit the inability to do what you've previously proven capable of doing?
Actually, no, it isn't. "Snakebit" means you're doing things right, but getting unlucky outcomes.
Muddy said...
Stammen wasn't hit hard yesterday.
I guess you missed the 1st pitch of Stammen's outing which was a double tatoo'd off the Red Porch wall by Headley for a double.
There was also a line drive hit right at Werth and some others that were just missed.
I guess if the glass is 1/2 full he wasn't hit hard and neither was Storen on Friday night ;)
FWIW, Stammen doesn't look broken to me, he looks slumping. He used to have trouble keeping his focus on the mound, and worked with his old high school coach, IIRC, to keep his mind on where he was and what he was doing, and it seemed to work very well. Maybe he's having a relapse of that issue again--it would explain a great deal.
Sec3, good definition. That's how I interpreted it also.
Ghost,
I think you missed my point res Stammen. You don't have to send me videos/proof that he's pitching poorly. I know he's pitching poorly. The point is that if he's not hurt he is likely to straighten himself out based on his recent past. Even this year.
I also understand very well that Hairston is not having a good year. My approach is that since he's got a very strong pedigree re pinch hitting/part time playing in previous years I think it's a reasonable expectation that he can produce again. He won't be the 1st player to get a bump from moving to a better team.
Got to wondering where "snakebit," in the sense of "unlucky," comes from. It's from craps--if you throw 1-1, AKA snake eyes, that's bad luck--you were bitten by the snake, or snakebit.
Sec 222,
If a pinch hitter gets you 3 game tying/game winning hits in half a season how van you call him useless? What do you want from a bench player? if he was better/more consistent he wouldn't be a bench player.
I find that there is ultra focus on a player's most recent past without the necessary analysis on what a player is likely to do in the future. There is constant demand for player A or player B to be sent down or traded, the manager fired and the GM tarred and feathered. As I said I am glad the people in charge aren't as reactionary.
DANG, there goes another one. Why are some of my posts disappearing again today??
Snakebit (to me) has always = being surprised by a negative circumstance, which was beyond your control, ie: Stammen throwing good pitches and being hammered by BABIP, which is prolly what Davey was talking about...
Sec. 3, My Sofa said...
FWIW, Stammen doesn't look broken to me, he looks slumping. He used to have trouble keeping his focus on the mound, and worked with his old high school coach, IIRC, to keep his mind on where he was and what he was doing, and it seemed to work very well. Maybe he's having a relapse of that issue again--it would explain a great deal.
Do you consider a 1st pitch of the day as "have trouble keeping focus".
I would think maybe pitch #20.
Just sounds like more excuses. He's going on 7 bad appearances out of his last 9 and if Storen didn't rescue him yesterday it would've been worse.
Missing location and poor movement is a problem for any pitcher. I don't see that as a focus problem. I'm thinking there could be some arm issues but that is just speculation. Stammen was lights out mid-April to mid-May.
For anyone who didn't see the Ray Knight interview with Stammen, it gets real interesting after the 2 minute mark when Ray compliments Stammen by saying 2 weeks ago he called Stammen the most valuable player (MVP) of the pitching staff. I assume that means the entire staff of starters and relievers. OK, Ray so much for credibility.
http://www.masnsports.com/index_medialounge.php?show_id=1800580&p=
And... This deal looks to be exactly what I was hoping for...
I had posted that I read somewhere that Hairston's BABIP was ridiculously low, but that post disappeared. I should quit while I'm ahead, and take a hint--I read that in DP's comment at the top of this thread, quoting ESPN. Sigh.
"His batting average on balls in play, however, is a staggeringly low .132, 155 points below his 2012 mark and easily the lowest of any hitter with at least 100 plate appearances this year."
Loss of concentration can easily show up as not executing pitches properly, which leads to poor location, and hangers, yes.
Is that his problem, or is he hurt? HTH would I know? I'm just watching on TV. But it is not inconsistent with his history, or these results.
JD said...
Ghost,
I think you missed my point res Stammen. You don't have to send me videos/proof that he's pitching poorly. I know he's pitching poorly. The point is that if he's not hurt he is likely to straighten himself out based on his recent past. Even this year.
I also understand very well that Hairston is not having a good year. My approach is that since he's got a very strong pedigree re pinch hitting/part time playing in previous years I think it's a reasonable expectation that he can produce again. He won't be the 1st player to get a bump from moving to a better team.
July 08, 2013 11:14 AM
Glad we are on the same page. I'm hoping for that bounce from Hairston in fact I wanted Rizzo to sign him last off-season as a RH bat. Change of scenery should help (I hope).
3 weeks ago I was gushing over how great Stammen was and that he was too valuable in the 'pen to be pushed back to starting where he had little success. I'm thinking he has arm fatigue and doesn't know it much like Haren.
Looking for your opinion, why does Davey protect Stammen in post-game interviews but doesn't do the same with Storen?
Sofa... Izzat a drink I owe ya? Off to the NIDO (I think this is my first recorded infraction...)
Sec3,
And That's very encouraging news. It looks like he's been very unlucky this year.
I'm thinking Stammen is slumping, not injured.
Sec. 3, My Sofa said...
Loss of concentration can easily show up as not executing pitches properly, which leads to poor location, and hangers, yes.
Is that his problem, or is he hurt? HTH would I know? I'm just watching on TV. But it is not inconsistent with his history, or these results.
July 08, 2013 11:26 AM
We saw something similar with Haren. Movement way off and locations missed. I'm wondering if its as simple as shoulder fatigue.
This is good acquisition! He has some pop in his bat, nice stats last year with the Mets.
Espinosa will bring value...he is proving he can hit. Smart GM will pick him up for what we need which is looking like a SP as Rizzo has made his move for the bench.
Cold one, on the board, Sofa...
Oh, and I definitely interpret snakebit to mean bad luck, but I guess I think of it more like being hexed--e.g., inexplicably losing your ability to execute on your strengths--than just simply not catching breaks.
But, I suppose now we're getting into serious semantics. However you wanna put it, Stammen hasn't been as effective lately.
Plain and simple, with Matheus out, Johnson overused Stammen and now he is slumping.
UnkyD, I don't think that was a jinx, so no, but I'll never turn it down.
BTW, e.g. means "for instance"; i.e. means "that is."
Ghost,
I really can't say that I understand much of what Davie says but you know different players need different approaches for motivation and Davie knows his players better than me. I am glad Davie has the Cajones to use a struggling Storen in a game situation after he struggled so much in the previous 2 appearances.
>BTW, e.g. means "for instance"; i.e. means "that is."
If that's apropos of my comment at 11:33, I was providing an example of what being "hexed" might be like.
Ghost,
I agree with you re. the possibility of trading Storen and for that matter Clip. If ever you can convert a reliever, even a very good one into an every day player or a solid starter you have to consider that. Relievers are inter changeable to a large extent and the GM's who understand that normally do very well.
Yeah, Ghost of Steve M., your comment -- in response to mine re Stammen not being hit that hard yesterday -- about the first batter to face Stammen hitting a ball hard off him means you'd say Stras is "slumping" too since Amarista crushed a homer off Stras. ;-)
Eric, usually pitchers bounceback from bad outings and don't "slump" like batters.
Davey keeps handing Stammen Low Lev appearances and he keeps turned Low Lev into High Lev for the guy that has to clean up the mess.
Haren *did* look hurt to me, just because it went on so long, and the back of his baseball card looks so much better than we're seeing--he's a veteran who knows how to pitch, but he's gotten wild inside the strike zone, which is death if you don't throw 98 mph with movement.
In other words, i.e. would imply too much specificity. I think a "hex" (er, to the extent that such a thing exists ;) can take more forms than the inability to execute on one's strengths.
I know the situations aren't identical, but it's interesting to compare the TyMo and Rendon stories, since both were here, got sent down, and then came back to the big club.
TyMo started out ice cold this year --.158/.206/ .274 in 102 plate appearances before he was sent to Syracuse on June 10.
Remember, he was a beast in Syracuse last year, batting .307/.374/.653 with 9 HRs in 29 games. This time around, he played 12 games in AAA, getting only 8 hits and 5 walks in 53 PAs. His slashline was just .178/.264/.356.
After his recall on June 26, he appeared in only four more games, and had just one hit in 11 PAs -- a home run against the D-Backs. His slashline was .091/.091/.364.
Rendon played 8 games and made 30 plate appearances in his first callup. His slashline was .240/.367/.280. Not great, but he certainly showed promise and didn't seem overmatched.
Back in Harrisburg he tore up the place. In 19 games he had 4 HRs and 17 RBIs, batting .338/.460/.676. He played 3 games in Syracuse and then rejoined the Nats for the game on June 5.
In the 29 games he's played since recalled, he has 37 hits, including 10 doubles and 3 homers. His slashline is .316/.350/.479 in those games.
Rendon is here to stay. TyMos future? Hard to say.
For the record, I liked Gomes, and his mohawk. :-)
Section 222 said...
People can make fun of Jonny Gomes all they want, but he played with fire and determination. And that walkoff HBP against the Phillies noted by JoeS was one of my favorite moments of 2011. The look he gave Lidge after the ball hit him was absolutely awesome.
No Muddy, Strasburg struck out the 1st 2 batters he faced yesterday and didn't give up any runs until the 3rd inning so there is no comparison.
Also Strasburg threw 111 pitches.
Eric, no, sorry. That was for Unk at 11:21.
You don't trade Espi; you trade Lombo and move Espi back up, assuming Danny can mentally handle being behind Rendon and Desi
OH, I see, and I also see why my preliminary search for i.e. missed that post ;).
Section222 @ 11:39AM, excellent analysis on the 2 situations.
I hate when a good kid blows his opportunities. Not everyone can be as lucky as JMax where you blow every opportunity and there are more opportunities around the corner.
"You don't trade Espi; you trade Lombo and move Espi back up, assuming Danny can mentally handle being behind Rendon and Desi"
I agree with this. Especially with LaRoche leaving after next year. The idea of Zim > Espi > Desi > Rendon in the infield is pretty tantalizing if Espi can remember how to hit reliably enough.
Ghost, I'd say Stras and possibly Gio were in fairly long, mild slumps for most of the first month. I mean, slumps for them. I'd expect any kind of similar stretch for Stammen to be more acute, as he's not nearly the pitcher they are.
Also, it seems that long relievers get such unpredictable work loads that getting back into a rhythm might be difficult.
But, as always, I'm very new to all of this and haven't seen these patterns play out for even a full year yet, so...
SCNatsFan said...
You don't trade Espi; you trade Lombo and move Espi back up, assuming Danny can mentally handle being behind Rendon and Desi
No way, you take a big chance that you ruin the team chemistry. Rendon doesn't need Espi breathing over his shoulder. I assume it will happen on Sept 1 that Danny will be recalled and that's about 45 games from now.
As I recall, Stammen started having trouble about three weeks ago (in Cleveland?)
Ghost, your answer about Stammen's pitch movement was the one that I was looking for.
It's not so much that he's hanging stuff, but rather that his breaking stuff seems to have flattened out.
His slider on the outside is less dominating.
Lombardozzi is a known quantity; Espinosa is not. Danny may figure it out and be great, or not, and be essentially out of it. Trading him now is selling low--IF he gets better. If he doesn't, it's "cutting your losses."
Add me to the folks with good memories of Jonny Gomes. He was a throwback who played the game the right way.
I like the Hairston signing. Everytime I saw Tracy in the ondeck circle, my heart sank. The bench has been a problem all season.
We are going to need Storen all the rest of the way (as we did Sunday) and trading him now would be a mistake.
Heck, this team is coming together and I am charged up about the second half.
Eric, if Strasburg didn't get the big run support yesterday I think the LoD would be slamming him for giving up 4 runs and getting smashed by the "Little Ninja" plus the 3 HBPs. Stras looked great in the 1st inning, after that, the heat and humidity were taking its toll.
The Nats pitchers just haven't had to endure the heat and humidity much this year. Last year they were getting IVs before games.
I think the only reason Stras went as long as he did was because Davey was saving the bullpen in case needed for Monday and Tuesday.
to say Moore has blown his opportunity is a stretch. he is a defensively challenged player who can hit a fastball a long way. nothing more, nothing less
Rendon is the real deal
Oh yeah: Ghost, I could see shoulder fatigue playing a role in Stammen's struggles..."dead arm" or whatever. His general control (if not his location precision) and velocity still seem to be too good for it to be outright injury, though.
Speaking of Tracy:
A comparison of Matt Stairs' swan song numbers and Tracy's current ones:
Stairs 56 games .154 .257 .169
Tracy 55 games .138 .179 .263
Yikes!
Ghost, there's no question Stras was off his game yesterday. I think the big difference between now and the first month, though, is that Stras giving up 3 - 4 runs was almost expected by early May, whereas now I'm almost surprised when he gives up 1, let alone 2, and 3? Fuggetaboutit!
With the DC heat suddenly hitting hard after a long, cool spring, and with Stras' recent success, I definitely think it was more of a blip than anything to worry about. I mean, all of our 1 - 3 starters have labored in their most recent outings...
Eric, agreed on no major injury to Stammen. Let's see how long it takes for the beat writers to ask some questions. It took a long time before that one day all the beat writers wrote their pieces on Espinosa.
Can Krol step up to a "stopper" for Davey? It's asking a lot for such a young guy.
Darn tootin' about ARen, alexva.
As I said back in ST, unless Rendon loses both legs and arms, he's on the road to 3,000 hits.
One of our posters suggested that ARen reminded him of Molitor---good perception.
Keith Hernandez watched Rendon during the last Nats-Mets series, and stated that his swing was too long. Watch again Keith, those were outside pitches that you were judging him on.
ARen has a good short to the ball swing. I look forward to seeing him come up for every AB.
Well, I do have to say, I didn't think Stammen's struggles started as long as 3 weeks ago? Is Sec 3 right on that? 3 weeks? I thought it was just his last 2 or 3 appearances...maybe going back to the Mets series?
Eric, JZim would've finished with a great outing on Friday if Ohlendorf didn't give up a 3 run HR on JZim's record and give him 3 earned on the day and a no-decision.
Eric, Stammen has stuggled in 7 of his last 9 appearances. Ever since Ray Knight declared him MVP coincidentally ;)
Doc said...
Ghost, your answer about Stammen's pitch movement was the one that I was looking for.
It's not so much that he's hanging stuff, but rather that his breaking stuff seems to have flattened out.
His slider on the outside is less dominating.
July 08, 2013 11:49 AM
Exactly. His slider has gone from killer pitch to looking hitterish.
He threw his slider only 5 times yesterday and they weren't swinging and missing on it like they used to.
Ghost, I replied to your @12:00 and @12:01 in the new post.
thanks Eric, heading over to the New Post
phil dunton said...
Plain and simple, with Matheus out, Johnson overused Stammen and now he is slumping.
July 08, 2013 11:34 AM
I'd agree this is a good possibility. Stammen has been brought in quite frequently lately.
If a pinch hitter gets you 3 game tying/game winning hits in half a season how van you call him useless? What do you want from a bench player? if he was better/more consistent he wouldn't be a bench player.
I never called him useless. But I don't agree with your analysis. He is often appearing in high leverage situations at the end of the game. He has 6 hits and 2 walks in 42 PAs as a pinch hitter this year. Yes, he had two big HRs. But I'm sure he could have helped the team alot if he hadn't failed to get on base 34 times. For a guy who is paid to hit, whose whole purpose for the being on the team is to deliver in the late inning, high leverage, pinch hitting role, I don't think a .270 BA and a .320 OBP is too much to ask. And no, that's not going to make him a starter. Last year he hit .261/.340/.391 as a PH. No one jumped to sign him to play 3B full time did they?
At this point, Tracy is such as automatic out that opposing managers don't even bring in a lefty to face him. The sooner he's replaced the better.
Agree we don't need Espi as much as we need an SP, 4h outfielder and he doesn't fit on the team anymore.
And I think a GM would take a chance. He could be a starting SS/2B elsewhere.
Good Deal. We need some better bench players, and we can give up a class-A pitcher.
Post a Comment