Thursday, May 2, 2013
Zimmerman set to return tomorrow
ATLANTA — After making it through last night's game at Class A Potomac with no problems, Ryan Zimmerman is set to come off the disabled list and rejoin the Nationals lineup tomorrow night in Pittsburgh.
Zimmerman, out since April 18 with a strained left hamstring, went 0-for-3 and reached on an error while on rehab at Potomac, playing six innings in the field without reporting any problems.
It was Zimmerman's only appearance on the rehab assignment — he was scratched from the lineup Tuesday night due to wet grounds at Pfitzner Stadium — but the Nationals aren't concerned he needs more at-bats before returning to the big leagues.
"I'm not concerned about him even playing," manager Davey Johnson said. "I think last year he did a stint on the DL, and he didn't rehab anywhere. I feel the same way this year."
Zimmerman is scheduled to work out on his own today at Nationals Park, then fly to Pittsburgh, where he'll meet his teammates after their charter flight arrives from Atlanta following tonight's series finale against the Braves. He'll be in the lineup tomorrow night against the Pirates, hoping to inject some life into a Nationals offense that currently ranks 28th in baseball with a .230 team batting average and .676 OPS.
Zimmerman's return will send top prospect Anthony Rendon back to Class AA Harrisburg. Rendon has played in seven games so far for the Nationals and has struggled at the plate, hitting .182 (4-for-22) with one RBI, four walks and seven strikeouts.
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65 comments:
So what happened to the Nats' offense from last year to this year--besides going south??
ALR, Espi, RZim, Zuk, JWerth, are all underachieving---how come???
Then the Gooner bench is not the same either.
Let's hope that it's just a one month wonder!
Picking up on the thread in the last post, NJ, I have to confess I'm starting to agree with you on Espi. And while I usually don't pay much attention to the personality stuff, Espi's attitude bothers me too. He seems to make excuses a lot. (Remember the issue with the hitting background in CF?.) And hiding that shoulder injury at the end of last year was a very, very bad decision. Plus, and I know he probably didn't write it, but I absolutely hate that idiotic promo ad where he says, "People say you're young, you're not supposed to succeed" blah blah blah. Who has ever said that a young player is not supposed to succeed? And besides, Espi isn't really "young" anymore. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder because people don't appreciate him more, but the fact is, since his great September callup and first half of 2011, he hasn't much for us to appreciate.
I honestly don't know if going to Syracuse will help him or not. He seems like the kind of guy who would resist that and not take advantage of it. But honestly, his glovework this year has not been stellar, to say the least, so the reasons to keep him in the lineup are dwindling.
I only wish they had made more progress in grooming Rendon to replace him.
Doc, our offense wasn't stellar early last year either. The difference is that last year ALR carried us with timely hitting early on and our pitching was outstanding before the major league hitters caught up to them. I expect with the warmer weather, both our pitching and hitting will improve. How much remains to be seen.
Welcome back Ryan Zimmerman. We need you man!
SonnyG10 ... exactly right. People tend to forget how badly we struggled at the plate early last year. In addition to ALR carrying us, our pitching got more stops last year during the hitting slump.
sec222 I figure if they send danny down and he balks or sulks then he'll probably be just as stubborn losing the loop in his swing or going to all RH hitting. Its like he made it to the show and thinks he deserves to be here and not have to work on his game; not sure if that is true but he is regressing.
And RZ welcome back, bring your bats from POT.
Just because the Nationals struggled last April, doesn't mean anything about this year. Stop that. This team was hitting after some early struggles and in Game 5 last year, so the fact that they aren't getting done now is nothing but underachieving.
Remember last year at the beginning Desi was a total unknown factor and to a lesser extent so was ALR. They just need to step up
Glad his hammy is feeling better. Glad to have him back, now we need Werth's ankle healed.
Need the full lineup..
And continuing the thread.. Jack, you are right, Espi needs an attitude adjustment to say the least. If he can't do it here, then get Anthony up here to take his spot.
Davey is never worried about Zim. He wasn't worried about his abbreviated Spring Training and he's not worried now. Unfortunately, his first month of the season doesn't inspire much confidence. And Kilgore's post about his rehab start doesn't fill me with warm fuzzy feelings about his throwing:
"Zimmerman appeared uncomfortable throwing across the diamond as he warmed up before innings, skipping a few balls and forcing the first baseman to leap to catch a few others....
As the hamstring strain sidelined him for two weeks, Zimmerman could still work on his throwing. He said he believed the time off was neither helpful nor harmful for his throwing."
Fingers crossed and hoping for the best.
Here's what Espi had to say about being benched, and what he's been doing about his hitting:
“Haven’t been playing well, got benched,”
And:
"This week, Espinosa felt he was moving too much in the batter’s box during his at-bats. He worked with Nationals coaches and decided to remain still instead. When his rhythm and timing are off, he has a tendency to rush his swing. 'I went from one end of the spectrum to the opposite,' he said.
...
'As far as confidence, I’m very confident in myself,' he said. 'I’m not going to lie and say my first two years in the big leagues have been great. I know I’m way better than that and I understand that I’m way better than that and I’ve shown it at times. I think I’ll be fine. I just gotta get back into that rhythm of hitting.'"
One thing I've learned over many years obsessing about the Grateful Dead is that it's a fool's errand, at best, to divine the "true" thoughts and feelings of famous people involved in doing something you love to observe.
Sure, Espi might be a totally arrogant, entitled jerk, but I know at least I have nowhere near enough access to know that.
Back on topic, glad to have RZimm back, although the reports on his throwing have seemed to be mixed. Really hope he's back to his old self.
Either there is something still wrong with Zimmerman's shoulder or he has the yips throwing across the diamond. I've got to think it's the former and not the latter. Either way, that situation needs to get straightened out right away. His struggles are a microcosm of the team's struggles this entire season so far.
SonnyG:
I welcome your sane comments as a refreshing respite from many of our "the sky is falling" brethren.
Section 222 said...
He seems to make excuses a lot. (Remember the issue with the hitting background in CF?.)
If you remember, I was the one that exposed that the day before the beat writers asked him what was up. He was striking out in huge proportions and then when asked blamed it on the batter's eye.
He's had enough opportunities and my guess is Davey will give him more because that's Davey's style.
Davey has never gotten over the Orioles replacing him with Grich and trading him to Atlanta, and that's why I think he has this loyalty to Espi.
Sometimes when we are too close we don't see it.
Section 222 said...
Davey is never worried about Zim. He wasn't worried about his abbreviated Spring Training and he's not worried now. Unfortunately, his first month of the season doesn't inspire much confidence. And Kilgore's post about his rehab start doesn't fill me with warm fuzzy feelings about his throwing:
"Zimmerman appeared uncomfortable throwing across the diamond as he warmed up before innings, skipping a few balls and forcing the first baseman to leap to catch a few others....
As the hamstring strain sidelined him for two weeks, Zimmerman could still work on his throwing. He said he believed the time off was neither helpful nor harmful for his throwing."
Fingers crossed and hoping for the best.
You have to be kidding me. Round 2 here we come.
This is probably the worst hitting team in the majors at the moment. If Harper is out then it's even worse. It's not a matter of who's at the Mendoza line; it's a bunch of guys not even hitting their weight.
I don't think it's asking too much for a player to stick to a swing that's working, e.g., in ST, for a few months. After all, it's not that they have to hit against R.A. Dickey (or any other knuckleballers) anymore. (And I'm not talking about LaRoche, whose swing is not part of his problem, so far as I can see.) Assuming such a player "finds his groove," it only means that he's a few weeks from another 0-for 30. There's either a lack of maturity (which includes unreceptivity to coaching), or a lack of mental acuity, or both.
I'd add that I'd prefer a hitting coach who really knows how to teach hitting but I think 75% of the problem is the player(s).
SCNatsFan said...
Lets be Thankful today... last year at this time HRod would have been coming in to pitch the 9th
Well . . . last year at this time Henry had pitched in 10 games, and had no-hit the opposition 8 times, giving up earned runs only once.
Ghost, Byron Kerr was there last night and didn't make any comments about Zim's throwing.
Unless Henry is hitting in the middle of this batting order, I don't think he is the team's primary problem right now.
Take a look at this, the Nats offense for the last 14 days. Last in MLB with batting average of .196 (not including pitchers).
Team batting averages
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=np&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=0&season=2013&month=2&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0
Theo, right on. I looked it up just before you posted! Great minds and all that.
Davey has never gotten over the Orioles replacing him with Grich and trading him to Atlanta, and that's why I think he has this loyalty to Espi.
Really? You think a 70-year old who has managed five different teams to first or second place finishes, won manager of the year twice, has experienced intense personal tragedy in his family (twice), who set records and was an all-star after the trade to Atlanta (where he got to play with guys like Hank Aaron) has never gotten over a trade from 40 years ago??
That's some bit of long-distance psycho-analysis you got there!
Maybe he just thinks that Espi is capable of getting back to his late-2011 level?
How many years does it take to conclude that a guy is not a major league hitter despite his "potential." The patience of the team with some of these guys is incredible.
Question: what's the deal with the Braves not able to draw even 23K for each of the first three games against the Nats?
Zimmerman's shoulder doesn't have anything wrong with it and he doesn't have the yips. He's having to re-establish his muscle memory on a task that he hasn't been able to perform without pain or cortisone numbness for well over a year. It's not something that's going to come back right away, like riding a bike. He can't just flip a switch and say "it's back." It's like a concert pianist who breaks his hand and can't play for a long time. It's going to be a while before he can play that Beethoven concerto without hitting some wrong notes. But that doesn't mean he should quit playing it, because it's only by playing it in pressure situations that he's ever going to get it back. Davey has said all along that it probably won't be until June that Zimmerman's throwing will be back to normal. Davey knows what he's talking about here. He played the game. He knows how hard it is and the subtleties that are involved.
In this case, Feel/RichP, I hope you're right. But remember, Zim's throwing issues long predated his shoulder problems last year. So I guess we have to hope he can re-establish his muscle memory from 2006. Yikes.
Another month of bad throws from Zim could lose a lot of games. Let's hope he's way ahead of Davey's schedule.
At least the commentators and announcers have stopped making excuses for him, or pretending there's no problem to be concerned about.
Nice post, Rich P. I agree completely, I just wish it weren't playing out in the midst of a team-wide slump...
But, play out it must.
"Zim's throwing issues long predated his shoulder problems last year."
Didn't he have surgery on his abdomen the year before (2011) and subsequently entirely rework his mechanics to prevent re-injury?
Didn't he have surgery on his abdomen the year before (2011) and subsequently entirely rework his mechanics to prevent re-injury?
That's right. But he was having throwing problems long before that too. I collected some of the evidence dating back to 2007 in a comment during spring training.
I really don't know whether his problem is mental or physical (probably both), but at least he's admitted there's a problem and is trying to fix it. Asking his teammates for help was a good sign.
Well, a torn abdominal muscle could certainly cause problems before being repaired.
And, at any rate, if that list of chances and errors per year shows anything, it's that he's been fairly consistent in how many he throws per season. Hopefully this season won't come to represent a serious deviation (20+).
Also interesting: in that post you linked to this article, which says "[Zimmerman committed] four errors the past two games at Turner Field in Atlanta."
That year he also had far and away the most chances in any given season, and wound up with 16 throwing errors.
In the end, your evidence of Zimm's throwing problems cause me to be less concerned, not more ;).
"Zimmerman's shoulder doesn't have anything wrong with it and he doesn't have the yips. He's having to re-establish his muscle memory on a task that he hasn't been able to perform without pain or cortisone numbness for well over a year."
This is utter bull crap. Zimmerman is what, 27? 28? He's been throwing from the left side of the infield for probably 20 years. If anything, his "muscle memory" -- if his muscles, joints, etc., have truly healed -- should slide into gear like riding a bicycle.
Conclusion: Either or both (1) the arm/shoulder is still in a post-surgical rehabilitative condition; (2) he's got the yips. Four throwing errors in five games equals the yips, by my definition. He's going through some sort of mental calculation -- (A) catch; (B) cock; (C) aim at target; (D) throw -- every time the ball comes to him. Whether side arm, three-quarters or overhand, it doesn't look fluid. That error on the throw to second last week illustrated it perfectly. He threw to second after intially intending to throw to first, then hitched, and then shot-putted the ball to a spot ten or so feet off the base.
I'm afraid we're going to have to live with it all year.
"Four throwing errors in five games equals the yips"
What about 4 in 2 games, like in '07? Has he had the yips all this time?
Eric seems to agree with pretty much everything I say. Can he be Feel now, Section 222? I'm just not Feeling it myself. Never have, actually.
Does anybody else feel like we have more head-cases on our team than anyone else in the majors? Seriously. I know baseball is a mental game dealing with confidence etc, but jesus...let's go through them. Ryan--seems to have the yips. Danny--repeatedly been said to have mental problems of being "too much in his head" by davey. LaRoche...in a slump which appears to have him pressing. Stras--struggling with what kind of pitcher he wants to be, confidence in attacking hitters, etc. Gio--excitable to a degree that is disturbing and cant stop the wheels from coming off when something goes wrong. Haren (maybe just sucks period). Then the bullpen is like a museum for people with confidence issues. Henry--one of a kind. Clippard--freaks out in big games. Storen--seems to have not gotten past Game 5. Like...this is professional sports. Not a shrink's couch. These folks are athletes. What in god's name is wrong with everyone? By my count we have 4 actual "gamers" on this team who are psychologically tough: Jordan, Bryce, Desi, Det. That's basically it. And you know what? I blame the coaching. This whole "treat them like adults" thing appears to have run its course. The fact is they're not adults in the sports sense. There are a ton of young players who need to be guided through these tough patches and Davey seems like he's just out of it sort of.
"Can he be Feel now"
I am he as you are he and you are me and we are all together!
No, but really, I'm just Eric. Did I agree with you about something before?
"Conclusion: Either or both (1) the arm/shoulder is still in a post-surgical rehabilitative condition; (2) he's got the yips."
Well, duh. Of course his arm/shoulder is still in a post-surgical rehabilitative condition. He had frickin' surgery. Even though it's repaired, he has to re-learn how to do the things with it that he was able to do before the injury that necessitated the surgery. That takes time, and will often be a two-steps-forward-one-step-back process. But it's a process he has to go through. There are no short cuts.
"No, but really, I'm just Eric. Did I agree with you about something before?"
You posted almost exactly the same thoughts as I did last night re Werth's X-ray. Section 222 tore me a new one for that and completely embraced you, apparently because he thinks I'm Feel and you're not. But you're just Eric and I'm just Rich P. And Section 222 is confused, or worse.
Bx, I think we're watching them work through the same problems that led to spotty play in September and October. 1) They're not used to playing under pressure and 2) They're in the spotlight, meaning everyone (or, at least direct rival contenders) is probably spending a ton of time turning our strengths into weaknesses. I think it's why Det and Zinn have had so much more success so far than Gio and Stras. They're all great, but Gio and Stras are the big names.
The only thing that truly defies this so far is Harper. I'm sure being young (not as much statistical history) and evidently significantly improving his plate discipline in the off season helps, as does being some kind of baseball superhero.
Oh! Gotcha Rich P.
How does anyone but us (or is it me?) know that I'm not Rich P. and you're not Eric, or that we're not really the same person!?
Gotta love the Internet ;)
They need the 2009 / 2010 bat to go with Harper in tandem in the lineup. If he muffs a fielding play every once in a while ... I won't worry if he hits and hits and hits.
RichP is FeelWood.
"If anything, his "muscle memory" -- if his muscles, joints, etc., have truly healed -- should slide into gear like riding a bicycle."
I read something a long time ago that even very subtle neck and/or back pain arising from, say, a car accident, can sometimes lead to virtually permanent favoring of the area of that injury.
I can imagine that constant subtle changes in throwing mechanics, coupled with recurring pain, coupled with sugeries, would wreak havoc on how a body's "natural" movements. And, given that pro baseball players often have to tweak what comes naturally to avoid injury, etc., you're not really dealing with simply "riding a bicycle" in the first place.
How many years does it take to conclude that a guy is not a major league hitter despite his "potential." The patience of the team with some of these guys is incredible.
This is only his third year right? And he was injured at the end of last season right?
Meanwhile, with the team in desperate need of some of some offense at the top of the order (no Span isn't ... he was a .270/.300 OBP guy at the end of last season) Lombo goes 0 for 17?
They need to get T-Mo going and in a regular slot in the lineup.
Defensively Espinosa is worth having on the field especially given he is a superior backup shortstop.
In this case, Feel/RichP, I hope you're right. But remember, Zim's throwing issues long predated his shoulder problems last year.
And Manny Acta clearly showed why. Its mechanical that Zim has worked on correcting ... but in the end he will be moved to that different position.For now they need his bat ... if he finishes in the middle of the pack fielding wise it'll be fine if he hits like he is capable of.
A DC Wonk said...
"Question: what's the deal with the Braves not able to draw even 23K for each of the first three games against the Nats?"
Twitter joke that made me feel better after witnessing the sweep and the chops in the stands in DC:
Q: What's the best way to avoid Braves fans?
A: Move to Atlanta.
Two teams have even records, so I compared them.
Life in the .500 Lane
http://ladyandthenats.blogspot.com/2013/05/life-in-500-lane.html
Bob Carpenter said last night that Braves attendance always goes up in the summer after school lets out.
Kind of like how Phillies attendance goes up after the parole board meets.
Regarding the Atlanta attendance, the Hawks are also in the playoffs so that could lower their numbers. Not that I consider Atlanta an NBA hotbed, but it could explain some of it.
Regarding Zimm, I guess only time will tell regarding the throwing issues.
That's right. But he was having throwing problems long before that too. I collected some of the evidence dating back to 2007
According to someone who managed him, and watched him as he grew (Manny Acta) this is something Zim has to work on every single season. It doesn't come naturally to him.
Again, this is why there is Anthony Rendon.
ALL MLB attendance goes up after school gets out. And the attendance was steady across the series- in fact there were actually 3,000 fewer people there Tuesday, when there was no Hawks game. So neither of those reasons explain it.
It's kind of weird that people are trying to make excuses for Braves fans on a Nats board. They're just a very weak fan base, especially when you consider the team's consistent success. It's been that way for many many years. We're easily outdrawing them- and our team is only eight years old, has never made it past the division series in its history, and is trailing them by several games in the standings.
Welcome Eric. Just to give you a little background, there is a regular commenter here who posted for a long time under the name Feel Wood (a clever though bit off color pun on Phil Wood, the MASN broadcaster and Washington Senators homeboy). Feel knows a lot about baseball and he's a STH. He also has a very identifiable commenting style. He's opinionated, aggressive, and sometimes just plain mean. He's picked fights with and offended many a regular commenter over the years.
After some particularly ugly interactions, this commenter decided to drop the moniker Feel Wood but he has continued to comment in his recognizable style under other names. For awhile he was prAA, then Tony, and now Rich P. He seems to have a visceral dislike for me and often quotes my posts in italics and ridicules them. I don't quite understand his obsession, but I admit I can't resist calling him out when he makes ridiculous statements -- like when he said last night that Werth was not given an X-Ray right after his injury on Monday because of the dangers of the cumulative effects of radiation on the body.
I would hardly call what you said about the Werth X-Ray last night "exactly the same thing" as what Rich P said, but the biggest difference is that expressed your views respectfully in the spirit of a conversation not a put down. I try to do that too, though when I'm bickering with Feel/RichP I'm sure I fall short. But he hasn't quite figured out how to do that, or simply chooses not to, as I'm sure you'll experience if he ever decides to disagree with one of your posts.
Of course, the main reason I have "embraced" you, as Feel/RichP put it, is that your avatar is a combination of the Steal Your Face and Nats logos. For that, I salute you Sir.
"your avatar is a combination of the Steal Your Face and Nats logos. For that, I salute you Sir."
Back atcha!
"STH"
???
peric wrote:
Meanwhile, with the team in desperate need of some of some offense at the top of the order (no Span isn't ... he was a .270/.300 OBP guy at the end of last season)
peric, I don't understand your obsession with denigrating Span. First off, he was .283/.342 last year, which is close to his lifetime average, and is close to what he's doing now. That's exactly what we need.
The fact is: there is nobody (except for Harper) on the team with a higher OBP than Span (his 11 BB's is also second on the team to Harper). Combine that and his tremendous range in CF, and, well Span is adding to the team, not subtracting from it (like many others are).
STH= Season Ticket Holder.
"STH= Season Ticket Holder."
Gotcha, thanks.
I'm still annoyed with Span for getting picked off on Monday, right before Harper's double. ;)
Seriously, though, I love the guy. Great pick up, imo.
peric said...
RichP is FeelWood.
May 02, 2013 1:12 PM
pRAA was a classy poster also. After Rich P posted about Ryan Zimmerman's muscle memory issue I feel relieved to know the answer to that mystery. All along I thought it was the poor mechanics that Harold Reynolds and Manny Acta eluded to. Those paid analysts get it wrong a lot. ;)
With all due respect, it eludes me why you still care, Deuces, when someone alludes to FeelWood.
There's no such thing as a STH any more. We're Season Plan Holders now. Gotta have a plan, you know.
To each his own Sofa. I guess I don't get the vanishing act followed by transparent reincarnation. What's the point of changing your identity if you can't change your stripes? Plus, he goes after me time and time again. Lots of us, including you, have worked hard to create a welcoming and entertaining community. But some guys won't even accept a virtual drink. So it goes.
Season Plan Holders with Ultimate Baseball Access cards. Marketing genius!
No one has said Zimmerman hasn't exhibited poor throwing mechanics many times during his career. That only makes what he's doing now even more of a challenge. For over a year now, he's had so much pain or cortisone numbness in his shoulder that he couldn't tell the difference between good mechanics and bad mechanics. He was chucking the ball over to first and hoping for the best. Now that he's had the surgery and healed from it, he has to teach himself to throw all over again. Like anything involving repetitive motion, it will take time to develop consistency. We're watching it now, and often it's not a pretty process. But that doesn't mean he's still hurt or that he has the yips, as many people keep saying.
Rich P., I think I've even seen Tracy over there showing Zim what he does. My guess is whatever he does remains uncomfortable and he's looking for any tip he can try. It sounds desperate, but it's better than just saying it'll come around eventually. Even with a lot of throwing errors every year, he's been a quality 3B most of his career because of the extra plays he can make.
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