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USA Today Sports Images Ryan Mattheus broke his right hand after Sunday's game in San Diego. |
Ryan Mattheus will be placed on the disabled list after breaking his right hand Sunday in San Diego, an injury that didn't occur during the Nationals' 13-4 loss to the Padres but afterward when the right-hander punched his locker in frustration. Mattheus' surprise injury, combined with the eight innings of work needed out of Zach Duke, Craig Stammen and Henry Rodriguez last night, leaves the Nationals with a serious dearth of healthy relievers at the moment.
So general manager Mike Rizzo will summon a pair of pitchers from Class AAA Syracuse: veteran right-hander Yunesky Maya and left-hander Fernando Abad. Each is expected to be added to the active roster before tonight's game at AT&T Park and be available to pitch if the need arises.
Such is life these days for a Nationals club that finds itself teetering on the brink, losers in five of its last seven games, hovering only one game over the .500 mark and suddenly dealing with a rash of injuries.
The Nationals already are without right fielder Jayson Werth (who is expected to miss at least two more weeks with a hamstring strain that won't go away), catcher Wilson Ramos (also out an extended period with a hamstring strain) and No. 5 starter Ross Detwiler (mild oblique strain).
At least those roster members hurt themselves on the field of play. Not so for Mattheus, who was so mad after giving up five runs during Sunday's blowout loss, he punched his locker at Petco Park and wound up breaking his pitching hand as a result.
Now the Nationals must cobble together a bullpen just to get through the rest of this 10-game road trip in one piece. Detwiler's injury forced Duke into a starting role, though he couldn't make it through four innings last night. Stammen wound up being used for 2 2/3 innings, with Rodriguez throwing 47 pitches over two laborious innings the day after he threw another 21 pitches in another blowout loss.
With none of those three arms available, the Nationals will seek help from two members of Syracuse's pitching staff.
Maya rejoins the big-league roster for the first time since 2011 despite a 1-4 record and 5.07 ERA in eight starts. The right-hander hasn't been particularly effective, but he hasn't pitched since Wednesday, so he at least offers a fresh arm.
Abad, meanwhile, offers the Nationals something they haven't had all season: a left-handed specialist out of the bullpen. The 27-year-old has allowed only two runs over 17 innings at Class AAA, striking out 12 while issuing only two walks. Given the Nationals' lack of a left-handed reliever aside from Duke, Abad could find himself sticking around for a while.
Needing to clear a spot for the extra bullpen arm, the Nationals will option outfielder Eury Perez to Syracuse. That move leaves the club with a 13-man pitching staff.
A move of desperation? Perhaps. But these have quickly become desperate times for the Nationals.
229 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 229 Newer› Newest»Wow. Not what I was hoping to see when I got up today. Way too much drama going on. And just when I keeping thinking that we have hit bottom and can only go up from here, something else goes wrong. What does this team need? -- the question of the day. Keep in mind that we pitched a guy who has not started in the majors in two years, not has he pitched very much this year. We also had three bench players in the line up and our three hitter banged up. They are not over achieving, but there are some issues going on that are not controllable.
Walter Johnson could have rose from the grave last night to pitch against the Giants, but with zero offense it wouldn't have mattered. When will we be desperate enough to option some other folks to Syracuse and bring up some hot (or at least a few degrees above ice cold) bats?
It sounds like we are moving toward the team we had about five years ago. Actually, I think we've made it. Dismal batting averages, we need bats. The absence of Werth, Ramos, and Detwiler is definitely not enough to plunge a team to the depths it is going. If the Nats were contenders, those three wouldn't rip them apart, that's for sure. So, the bottom line is they don't have the horses. The Nationals didn't have the horses from day one of the season. Last year was a fluke and this year is proving it out. Wow, are they bad. And, that's the way it is, May 21, 2013.
Davey and Rizzo are scrambling. They are reportedly going to bring up Abad and Maya tp flesh out the pen. What a knucklehead move by Mattheus. They keep beating themselves. And then there is Detwiler. We really don't know how serious his injury is, and there are no good options in the minors to replace him.
I think they have hit bottom. Rizzo can make some obvious moves to strengthen the offense. Davey really doesn't have much to cover for Werth's absence, and Harper's knee, on the current roster.
I don't have any suggestions on what to do if Detwiler has to go on the DL. Lack of rotation depth has always been the biggest weakness of this team, all season. Let's see if Mike can pull another rabbit out of his GM hat.
I'm done with this team. The past two games have been a complete embarrassment. No heart, no pride, no fight.
But the front office isn't worried, they'll have a ballpark full of mindless sheep wearing curly W's when these losers return to DC.
Yeah something's gotta be done. The Nats just aren't showing much life right now. Its actually hard to believe they have as good a record as they do, 1 game above .500.
I've been an optimist from the start, but what's happened to the Nats? They didn't luck into 98 wins last year, how could they regress so much?
And before anyone says it, no, even if they still had Morse he wouldn't have added the 8 or so extra wins they should have by now.
If asked on April 1st what their record would be after 45 games, I would have said 30-15.
You ask where I was Wasian man... I watched the whole game and after the Nats QUIT 3-0, I took a deep breath, followed Coach SJM's advice and said to myself, "I'm going to go take a nap, when I wake up, if the money is on the table, I know I have a partner, if not, I know I don't" oops, no I said I will not post until tomorrow.
So, its Tuesday....out scored 21-4 in back to back games. Of which one of the teams, sucks (Padres).
It is not the fact Nats lost to Giants, its the fact that they showed NO HEART or GUTS in trying to score even 1 freakin run!! Duke SUCKS, and the fact he is on this roster makes me question Devey's sanity.
I hate to post this, but folks, last season, the NATS never lost 2 back to back games by these kinda scores. This season is over, i will enjoy watching young talent, which I hope may be the few pieces the team needs in 2014. I think this club will lose 85 games this season
shame on every player last night for NO EFFORT
Then again, for all we know they may start a 10 game winning streak tonight. Who knows.
But one thing's for sure, I wont abandon the Nats. I'll continue to wear my curly W.
They're my team. I've rooted for them since 2005 and always will. That's what's so frustrating. Watching a team expected to win 100 games make every opposing pitcher look like Cy Young himself.
Anyway, GO NATS!
And now, the stupidity of trading Morse has the chickens coming home to roost, because of Werth's injuries. Werth will not be back a 100% this season,if he even comes back and worst of all, Werth will only miss more playing time as his career winds down each season. Moore may be a bust and swami.... it can still get worse and it will
72-90 will be Nats record
Rizzo will use the injuries as an excuse when the team is 20 plus back by All Star break. However, injuries have nothing to do with losing 2-1 to San Diego and having NO HEART last night
For 3 games, Strasburg-Gio-Zimmermann followed by 2 days of rain might result in a 2-1 record :-)
The Nats don't seem willing to try anything. Come hell or high water Rizzo and Johnson are going to stick with the good old boys. I'm not even sure why they brought up Perez because they barely used him. It was the ineffective Shark and Moore. Injuries are obviously an issue but what position player other than Harp and to a certain extent, Desi, has played with any consistency even when he has been healthy. The Yankees have had a lot more injuries to deal with and... Well, you get the picture. There appears to be no consequenses for poor play on this team. On the contrary, said players get more playing time to get them out of their rut. How many chances do they get, I wonder? How many months?
Rizzo should of never messed with last years success
I agree with those who are questioning the teams heart. No leaders on the field and no leaders in the Front Office or Managers office.
Leader face problems...this team ignores them. How could anyone on this team lead when the front office insists on putting instant, unproductive and moral crushing outs like Danny in the lineup day after day.
Faced with this mess caused by Rizzo and Davey here is what leaders should do. Zimm, ZimmN, ALR and Desmond need to break ranks with Management. If Management refuses to listen then they need to go public like men and say the Management decisions are killing the moral of the team.
Don't think so......you clearly are not staying up and watching this embarrassment each night.
Davey came the closest I've seen to calling out a player, when he said he wished Mattheus has told him sooner about the hand. I know we all hate Henry (well, I don't) but he sure took one for the team last night. Can't see much positive--except that we thought we'd hit rock bottom on a rainy night against Atlanta last year,.. Too bad for Perez, who didn't deserve it, and now we will have more joy infielders playng in the outfield. Rizzo probably wanted to DFA Duke and now can't afford to.
Leaders face problems....like Nats Training and Medical Staff incompetence.
Nationals right fielder Jayson Werth could spend roughly two more weeks on the disabled list after an MRI exam today revealed a more significant strain in his hamstring than originally thought, Manager Davey Johnson said.
“I got kind of an alarming report from our doctor that said he was going to be a while longer,” Johnson said. “I think he was rushing it. He started to realize that hamstrings take a little more time. Something happened to him like it happened to Wilson Ramos. So we’ll take a step back on him.”
This is so clearly incompetence...year after year...player after player....how can Lerners let good money be wasted like this....amazing incompetence all around in the organization.
While I hate the injury I'm glad someone on the team is as upset about this team as I am.
Another morning, another laugher against us. Not only are we losing but we are being dominated.
And another day in the forum of those who believe this team can't win without changes (me) vs. those who just believe all we need is time.
Well Strike Zimm from the leadership role....some old story there....his post game comments are a joke. we would have been happy just to go .500 on this trip....just got to get healthy......EXCUSE ME....are the rest of the guys not MLB players....can they not help at all...if not then why in are they on the roster. RIZZO has really mismanaged the roster all year.
In some of his interviews Mattheus didn't seem to bright, then you read he punches his locker with his pitching hand and it confirms it.
The good news is Zach Duke is a better hitter statistically then anyone on the bench so he can take Eury's spot pinch-hitting ;)
Rizzo needs to have a town hall meeting with Press and answer some tough guestions.
Not sure we have anyone in the press who is willing to risk their most favored Nation and push on the real issues.
Hitting Coach is ineffective and has been for years.
Medical Staff is a Joke and has been for years.
Players are getting jobs and ABs gifted them without earning them and it is costing games night after night.
Rizzo is protecting players he traded for because he is too pig headed to admit he was wrong. See HROD and Duke
Yunesky Maya? Are you kidding me? That guy is even worse than Duke, if that's possible. Why not Erik Davis? After all he's having a great year at AAA and they risked losing Kobernus and Rosenbaum in the Rule 5 draft in order to protect him. The player personnel moves continue to make no sense whatsoever.
I just made the same point to my friend the Giants fan after reading about Mattheus and Vogelsong (and, yeah, the not-happy game results email). Ryan must not have seen the part in Bull Durham where Crash told about not using your pitching hand. Not smart. Oh well. Like CWJ, I've no plans to abandon my team. OTOH, I don't plan to watch the DVR'd game either. Still, it's just baseball. Still sending thoughts and prayers for the folks in OK this morning.
At least those roster members hurt themselves on the field of play. Not so for Mattheus, who was so mad after giving up five runs during Sunday's blowout loss, he punched his locker at Petco Park and wound up breaking his pitching hand as a result.
So is Mattheus. At least he made contact. (Oh no, I didn't.)
Gonat said...
The good news is Zach Duke is a better hitter statistically then anyone on the bench so he can take Eury's spot pinch-hitting ;)
May 21, 2013 7:54 AM
Maya is to major league pitching as Espinosa is to major league hitting. He's another signing mistake by Rizzo. All of Rizzo's mistakes over the years are now coming back to haunt him. The latest is his blowing up of the bull pen last winter when he didn't bother to resign Gorzolanny, Burnett and Gonzalez. In addition to Rizzo's stupidity, his stubbornness is also doing him in. Sticking with the pathetic Henry Rodriguez for three seasons has been very costlyk too. The same stubbornness causes him to keep Eckstein around as the hitting coach.
Where are the rose colored glasses people now?
These guys are as bad as the 2007 team. Really bad and really stupid. Time to look at blowing it up.
I read yesterday that Rizzo was not very happy about having his option picked up. Looks like nobody is happy on this team right now. Fans included.
Maybe some players need to learn about being honest about their injuries. Are you listening Danny and Ryanx2.
Crash Davis: Did you hit the locker with your right hand or did you hit it with your left? Huh? Did you hit it with your right hand or did you hit it with your LEFT?
RM: My left.
Crash Davis: Good! That's good; when you get in a fight with your locker you don't hit it with your pitching hand. God, I can't keep giving you these free lessons so quit screwin' around and help me up.
And can someone explain why Rizzo is so resistant to making even common sense moves? Moore isn't getting it done and still has options. Meanwhile, Chris Marrero is finally hiting the way the Nats hoped he would when they drafted him and is in his last option year. Why not swap Moore for Marrero and have the latter as one of your prime pinch hitters? He certainly couldn't do any worse and this would be their last chance to evaluate him at the MLB level.
JayB---It was well know around the majors that Jason Werth's legs were shot when Rizzo stupidly signed him to a 7 year $126 million contract before the 2011 season. Rizzo multiplied his stupidity by giving Michael Morse away, knowing Werth's legs were shot and that Harper would be injury prone because he plays so recklessly.
It's Abad thing to have to rely on Maya for our relief pitching.
Phil you troll stop saying his legs were shot there was no evidence of that. Your only source is your own posts.
Rizzo said time and time again that he would rather have Maya than Chapman. He said at the time that his scouting tells him that Maya was MLB ready.....back in 2011....Rizzo has some major holes in his GM tool set. He also is very small minded and thin skinned. He will do anything to save face....even flush a season it seems.
JayB said...
Hitting Coach is ineffective and has been for years.
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I've usually blamed the students but then you have LaRoche going to Chipper Jones for help and it worked.
Is that an isolated case?
My biggest issue is approach. Last night the pitcher walks Craig Stammen which put men on 1st and 2nd. What does Span do, he swings at the 1st pitch and rolls it over to the 1st baseman. The Nats just never seem to be able to take advantage of a relief pitcher. That's just another example of poor approach. Of course earlier in the game with men on 1st and 2nd Lombo thought he was a HR hitter. Why change your "contact" approach in that at-bat?
NatsJack in Florida said...
Fun reading all the stuff bringing the season to an end on May 21.
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It should have been for Henry Rodriguez. He has to have at least 9 lives.
Not sure how many lives Espinosa has used up.
Unless the Nats were willing to just forfeit the game, I have no idea why Duke started last night. I'm amazed he's even on the roster.
And the offense...ugh. Anything to shake things up but these latest moves aren't comforting.
Hi, 1a--hard to spot you here amongst the people who have given up on the season in MAY...
Rose-colored glasses here (raising hand).
Harper will heal and be the wiser for it.
Stras will decide it's time for him to be a team hero and not worry about his own stats.
Gio is tougher than you think.
JZ will pitch against the Fillies on Friday.
When Werth comes back, he will be rested and strong, like he was last year, but his wrist will be better.
RZ will hit; so will ALR, and Desi will get his groove back.
The bullpen will show what it's made of.
I assume not Erik Davis because he is a righty and a short reliever and Davey wanted the lefty (Abad). As for a long reliever, Olendorf just pitched on Sunday, would not be available for a few days.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed park harbour? "
So, Mike Rizzo and Davey Johnson go from being the NL Executive and NL Manager of the Year respectfully, to the dumbest clowns on the face of the earth in a matter of a quarter of a season?
RaleighNat said...
Unless the Nats were willing to just forfeit the game, I have no idea why Duke started last night. I'm amazed he's even on the roster
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Just another person speaking in hindsight. Rizzo made a huge gamble that he could keep Detwiler off the DL and use the bullpen.
The strategy backfired when Duke only got 3 1/3 ineffective innings.
The bigger problem is that this team has no #6 starter that anyone could point to. That is a Rizzo fail. Many of us pointed this out in the beginning of Spring Training. When you are counting on Peric's Zach Duke, you have a problem. It took the Giants out of their mini slump.
RaleighNat--the Nats were willing to forfeit the game last night, I thought that was more or less understood. That's why what Mattheus did was unbelievably stupid.
You wanted Stras and Gio to have a shot at their games. You have to hope they both go innings, because Davey doesn't want to use Maya and he will go back to Syracuse as soon as Stammen is rested.
Joe Seamhead said...
So, Mike Rizzo and Davey Johnson go from being the NL Executive and NL Manager of the Year respectfully, to the dumbest clowns on the face of the earth in a matter of a quarter of a season?
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Of course not but you have to question all the holes they left and didn't fill and I for one can appreciate some that pointed out in the off-season several holes in this team with the #6 starter at the top of the list.
Everybody stop and breath for minute, please. Rizzo didn't go from genius to idiot in the last two months and the team didn't go from young and talented to blow-it-up-and-start-over in that time either. Maybe this season will end up in the crapper, maybe we'll have a strong second half. But it's not time to abandon ship. This is baseball.
Anyone comparing a 23-22 team that's struggling at the tail end of a west coast road trip to the 2006-2010 Nationals wasn't actually a fan of the 2006-2010 Nationals.
Easy come, easy go. Enjoy your summer. The rest of us will stick with this team for a while though, if you don't mind. We've seen a lot worse.
Would have rather seem JC Romero instead of Maya. I'm surprised about Werth, though he be back on Friday!
I'm wearing my Nats stuff no matter what, and I will go to as many games as possible, come home hoarse from yelling, and will not, under any circumstances boo our players. I went 12,240 days with no baseball in DC. We got a team. It's going through a rough spell. Read NatsLady's post at 8:31 a.m. and keep the faith. Come on now!
natsfan1a said...
So is Mattheus. At least he made contact. (Oh no, I didn't.)
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Thanks, 1A... That's the Spirit!!!
I'm not jumping ship.... Ever. I've rooted for the Curly W since I became aware of baseball, in the 60's. no way I'm turning my back on a young team that's banged up and frustrated. Not sure I understand what kind of fan does.... I'm sure that having the "team leaders" lead a public revolt against Davey and Rizzo would work wonders, because that ALWAYS works... And the Davey and Eck haters will get their wish- over the winter, not before. Whoever takes over for Davey will certainly bring some of his own assistants along, right?
The only important number is the one separating us from the division leaders, until the postseason starts, and as poorly as this team is playing, any day can bring the beginning of a new winning streak, and we'll get a chance to see if Rizzo's "character" guys can pull together as a unit, and persevere. I'm behind them, 100%!
(Just call me Rosie...after my glasses...)
I agee with Cwj, it amazing that the Nationals record is at good as it is. I also will stick with them, as I has there that first game at RFK (even when up to Philly and saw them play there before that first home game ever).
BTW - best thing about this game, it was so late, I fell alsleep when it was 5-0.
Gonat, it wasn't for lack of trying. He had to basically force Lannan to sit in Syracuse last year. There are only so many (free-agent) pitchers who will do that and they are ALL flawed, like Chris Young. You needed an in-house kid (prospect) and ours are all at lower levels right now.
As far as Gorzelanny, Gonzalez and Burnett are concerned: get off that train. Rizzo had every reason to expect Duke to fulfill the Gorzy role. He hasn't, granted, but that's unpredictable and he's stashed some guys in the minors (e.g., Abad). Burnett has spent most of the season on the DL, and Gonzalez has been very, very, very ineffective. Remember, Rizzo signed him to a minor-league deal, saw he was doing well and promoted him. Can't blame him for not pushing his luck, you would NOT want him on this team this year.
Where would you play Morse if he were here? I've watched a few Seattle games and you do not want him in the outfield on a regular basis, he is slow, slow, slow, and gets bad jumps (has a fair arm, though). I watched him give away two runs in one inning with three different misplays just the other day. If he were at 1B you would sacrifice ALR's D for some offense, but Adam is coming around offensively.
As for Davey, well, let's just hope this is a kick in the butt for him. He saw the "powerhouse" team Rizzo had assembled for him and just figured it was a matter of filling out the lineup card every day and cruising. Now he better get that old brain working, because there is work to do.
These threads are so hard to read when the team is losing. Davey is a no-nothing manager. Werth is paralyzed. Morse would save the team.
Whew. It's pretty hard to dig through the junk to find reasonable people like NatsLady, bowdenball and livernonions. Thanks, folks, for the sanity.
Tcostant, I did somethng I've never done before--at 1:00 I switched to Jon Stewart. Fell asleep during his opening jokes. Feel like I let poor Henry down.
I don't think Davey is a "know-nothing" manager, not at all. I do suspect he thought it was going to be a pretty easy ride, and then gear up for the playoffs. Now he has to manage--yeah, it's baseball. There's injuries, stupidity, and slumps. Patience is only part of the job...
Maya's just here as mop-up guy in the case of emergency while Duke is unavailable; it would've been smarter to bring him up before last night to tag team with Duke and keep Stammen out of a game they didn't expect to win.
I also think Harper should've rested once the Giants were leading by 6. He's stil not 100% and could've used the extra time.
Disappointed in Mattheus, but I'm sure no one felt worse about it than him.
I expect we'll hear pretty soon that Henry has elbow soreness from throwing 68 pitches in 2 days and wil be DLed, and someone like Erik Davis will be called up in his place.
NatsLady alway has great insight.
While I agree on Morse (once ALR signed for two years, but it could be debate that was a mistake because of RZimm's throwing issue and if you kept Morse it would be faster track to 1B) and Duke basicly being a Gorz swap.
The main issue is another lefty in the pen. Rizzo and Davey can talk about splits all they want, but the fact is Davey hasn't used these rights with good lefty splits liek he would have used a regular lefty in the pen. So that makes me think, Davey really wasn't on board. If you want to move on from Gonzalez and Burnett that is fine, but one more lefty was needed like J.P. Howell.
I think it is important to remember that despite the facts of:
1) this team is on a terrible slide with many players performing far below their career norms - and with the exception of Adam Dunn the season before last, almost every player below the age of 32 comes back to within a standard deviation of their norm by seasons end
2) The team defense is aberrant in a bad way, and that too is likely to reverse as the season progresses
This team is in second place in the division, only 3.5 games out and there are plenty more games with the Marlins and Mets.
Also, the starting pitching is still REALLY good, and that will take you further than good hitting.
Everyone needs to relax.
EmDash, that is exactly why Davey was pissed at Mattheus, and that's exactly what Rizzo would have done if Mattheus had 'fessed up sooner. Ya gotta give Maya time to get on the airplane! Davey probably told he didn't need help for one game, it would be Johnny Wholestaff, and he didn't want to send Eury down.
I'm not sure why Stammen wasn't ready, when he knew he was coming in sooner or later, but it was a shame to waste him on a game that was in essence a no-go from the start.
If I recall, Rizzo tried for J.P. Howell and got outbid. Maybe that's when he decided to go with Soriano, as he knew there would inevitably be injuries (though not THIS kind) and he could adjust later.
nats guy said...
Where are the rose colored glasses people now?
Right here, dude.
This is a fairly well put together team that's going through a bad stretch combined with a couple of key injuries.
Take a deep breath and remember the mantra: A team is never as good as they seem during a winning streak, and is never as bad as they appear during a losing streak
Nats have three top-shelf starters -- any team would kill to have any of them. Soriano's a solid closer. Harper will have a great season. RZim and LaRoche are getting on track hitting-wise. Ian will get out of his slump soon. Ramos will be back. Etc etc.
Wow. Mattheus. Come on man, you're gonna bomb sometimes.
Heal fast and don't let that locker get into your head next time.
Good to see how well Duke can hit. We could use another .200 hitter on this team. ;)
NatsLady said...
If I recall, Rizzo tried for J.P. Howell and got outbid. Maybe that's when he decided to go with Soriano, as he knew there would inevitably be injuries (though not THIS kind) and he could adjust later.
Me:Come on J.P. Howell got less than $3M plus incentives. If that is true, how low did he bid, this is peanuts.
http://www.truebluela.com/2013/1/8/3853416/j-p-howell-contract-details-dodgers
For me, it isn't giving up on the team or not rooting and being passionate about the team; that hasn't changed for me. Last year built expectations and this club is not meeting them and, as a long suffering fan, you realize windows to have a special team are very small and this window will close sudddenly. To sit back and think things will get better just eats my insides out; it isn't that this team is losing, it is getting blown out more then I can remember. Management, who is smarter and paid more then me, needs to get this train back on the tracks or we will have seen potentially one of the best seasons of baseball in DC wasted away. That's my fear.
Tcostant, I know. And there were people at the time who were puzzled. Rizzo just does NOT like to spend money on relievers, Plus Howell had a bad year in 2011. On the same reasoning that he didn't go for Burnett off a good year, he didn't want to go for Howell. Might have been a misjudgment, we would be glad to have him right about now.
Wow, there are some panicky Petes on this thread. I do think some changes need to be made however. Zach Duke has to go, I know he hasn't been put in the best situations, but he's failed in all of them. I also wouldn't rule out sending Moore down to AAA to get some steady ABs to get his head back on straight. Maybe they give Marrero a chance to continue his mostly hot hitting in the bigs.
So far, my only emotion in response to all of this is frustration. I'm concerned, but not despairing...we have way over 100 games left to get where we need to be.
As always, I take nothing for granted, and I don't feel the post season or even a winning season are in the bag by virtue of our talent. But, both still seem like highly attainable goals, and no less so than on opening day. Hell, we're one win better off now than we were on opening day ;).
Settle down folks, hating on Rizzo is certainly not called for. Morse is probably missed in the locker room, but he would not be fixing the offense or defense here. First of all he would be a member of the walking wounded right now. Second, if he were here instead of Span then Bernadina, Lombardozzi, or Espinosa would be leading off right now (is that what you want?). Span for Meyer and Morse for Cole do not appear to be bad trades to me. Burnett & Gorzelany are both on the DL. Haren instead of EJax was no worse than an even trade performance wise. Still beating on Rizzo for the Willingham/HROD trade of 3 years ago is just ridiculous. The Hammer has changed teams twice since then (as will have Morse by the start of next year). Rizzo doesn't lead the league in games blown by the thirdbaseman throwing the ball away. He has not had a single at bat or thrown a single pitch, and as far as we know he hasn't punched an inanimate object. Signing Soriano was certainly a plus. He may not win a third consecutive Executive of the Year award, but sheesh... Rizzo is a superior GM.
(BTW, Duke was a minor league free agent not someone Rizzo traded for.)
Just for the record, I'm not giving up on this team.
I will be there Saturday, hoping we put a boot over the Phils throats. This team how ever flawed, can still win THIS division and a wild card berth if it come to that. I still think their will be playoff baseball on half street.
Interesting comment about the blowouts. I read somewhere that one-run game are a matter of luck a lot of times, one blooper can change the game, but a team needs to win blowouts. (Of course, the outlier was Baltimore last season, but that doesn't seem repeatable).
Last year the Nats were 21-11 in blowouts (5+ runs) but only 27-21 in one-run games.
This year (much smaller sample, of course). Nats are 4-8 in blowouts and 7-4 in one-run games. I agree that pitching will overcome hitting, and pitching is key, but you would like to have some blowouts just to ease the stress. Cole Hamels pitched a gem last night but he is 1-7 and walked out of the press conference because he is so frustrated.
>you would like to have some blowouts just to ease the stress.
YES PLEASE! :)
Zach Duke probably would have been DFA this morning if Mattheus hadn't been so stupid. I'm pretty sure last night was supposed to be his last chance because with the off-day, Detwiler may not have to pitch until May 28 (and it could rain). Therefore, you don't need Duke for another "spot" start--at which he failed anyway.
Talk about the armchair GMs coming out of the woodwork. Where were you all back in November with your great ideas?
It's too easy to poke at Rizzo now.
A team is built with 25 players PLUS enough MLB ready talent in the Minor Leagues. The sum of all fears is realized as I said in the off-season that the best 25 were not going North and there was no #6 starter ready if needed.
Many here wanted the funnest 25 to go North. They love guys like Henry Rodriguez and Danny Espinosa and Chad Tracy and Zach Duke and Dan Haren and Adam LaRoche and Ryan Zimmerman. These are the same people that will hate on Michael Morse and Jayson Werth and Ian Desmond.
Adam, I think the next few days will bring additional changes. I'd expect Duke to be dfa'd with Maya taking his place as LR. personally I think he can succeed in that role. Abad will take Mattheus place in a set up role. I would also like to see Corey Brown take Bernadina's spot and Chris Marrero to take Moore's.
it was uncanny last year how many times moves like this worked, let's hope for more of the same magic
Well, I am not a fan of Morse (who, apparently, was "fun"), but I am a big fan of Werth and Desmond, so I'm sure if you are pointing at me or not, Ghost. I like solid players like ALR and Ryan Zimmerman--they may not be hall-of-famers, but in the long run, when the season is over, you will find that they did their job, and hopefully the same will hold for Haren.
Henry is not what is keeping this team from a 31-14 record. Nor is Danny Espinosa. Zach Duke is a minor player, and as I said, he was on a short rope, probably from day one.
Ghost for the record I was betting the drum about a lefty RP all offseason, as each of ours signed elsewhere and when Howell when to LA. I first guessed it, not second guessed it.
I don't understand why you have to punch your pitching hand into your locker, anyway. Easy target. What's wrong with slinging furniture, busting a gatorade cooler or hitting your head bouncing a bat off a wall? Total lack of imagination there, Ryan Mattheus.
SCNatsFan said...
"as a long suffering fan, you realize windows to have a special team are very small and this window will close sudddenly."
I don't think this is true of baseball. If you build a solid organization with a lot of under 30 talent, the window for winning baseball usually lasts several years. Pick any season in recent history and look at the teams that won 90+ games. You'll find far more teams on sustained runs with multiple playoff trips than flashes in the pan. The few flashes in the pan you find will be either teams that got very lucky based on their run differential or teams built around older free agent veterans.
bowdenball, agreed. And I think that's what Rizzo was going for. Yes, he put a lot of marbles in 2013, but he didn't put them ALL in. I'm not ready to talk about 2014, but our guys are still very young in baseball terms, except Werth and LaRoche. Our pitchers are in their prime.
NatsLady,
I agree with your overall analysis. I think that the focus on the bullpen mop up guys is silly; this is not what's making the difference. The moves people are suggesting (I really don't mean to be condescending) are window dressing; I don't think Yuneski Maya, Chris Marrero and Corey Brown will take us over the top.
Given that the team is what it is at least for the next few weeks I would put a out a lineup like this:
Span, Harper, Zim, LaRoche, Desmond,Moore/Bernadina, Suzuki and Lombo and go with it until Werth returns.
Never give up! Never surrender!
Activate the Omega 13 ...
NatsLady said...
Well, I am not a fan of Morse (who, apparently, was "fun"), but I am a big fan of Werth and Desmond, so I'm sure if you are pointing at me or not, Ghost. I like solid players like ALR and Ryan Zimmerman--they may not be hall-of-famers, but in the long run, when the season is over, you will find that they did their job, and hopefully the same will hold for Haren.
Henry is not what is keeping this team from a 31-14 record. Nor is Danny Espinosa. Zach Duke is a minor player, and as I said, he was on a short rope, probably from day one.
May 21, 2013 9:50 AM
I'm not referring to you directly. Also you were never wrong about Michael Morse in LF but the dynamics were changing significantly and Morse was the perfect candidate for 1st base.
LaRoche was rescued by Rizzo. The Nats needed flexibility at 1st base in case Ryan Zimmerman needed to be moved sooner than later. Morse was perfect for it with his 1 year of team control remaining and LaRoche would have brought back a 1st round draft compensatory pick.
Now then, if you were going to trade Morse, the move should have been early on to Tampa before they got Loney as I believe they would have given up a young starter like Archer or Cobb in a multi-player deal and especially before they made the deal with the Royals.
Instead of spending $13 million on Haren, they could have retained Lannan and used that cash on the bullpen.
Espinosa had trade value in the off-season. Now he has no value.
Bowdenball,
There is no question that despite all the doom and gloom there is still enormous potential for sustained success. I think that if the big 3 starters achieve a level of consistency there is always potential for a nice run. I don't think Atlanta is running away with the division.
Also, Kilgore's article about Rizzo is complete hogwash. RIzzo's option got picked up exactly when it should have gotten picked up. The off-season is for contract talks. Kilgore will alienate the front-office (as he has already alienated Davey) with "aggressive" reporting which is nothing more than gossip, if that. More likely it's mere speculation.
(If it is cheating or steroids, where aggressive reporting is appropriate, that's a different case).
"Many here wanted the funnest 25 to go North. They love guys like Henry Rodriguez and Danny Espinosa and Chad Tracy and Zach Duke and Dan Haren and Adam LaRoche and Ryan Zimmerman. These are the same people that will hate on Michael Morse and Jayson Werth and Ian Desmond."
Out of curiosity, do people keep stats on this stuff? Does it add anything that armchair GMing doesn't? I sincerely don't mean to single you out GoSM, it's just a good example of the often disputatious nature of online dialogue. We all do it.
"LaRoche was rescued by Rizzo. The Nats needed flexibility at 1st base in case Ryan Zimmerman needed to be moved sooner than later. Morse was perfect for it with his 1 year of team control remaining and LaRoche would have brought back a 1st round draft compensatory pick."
Wasn't Davey the one saying LaRoche was the single most important piece of the puzzle, offering to be a hand on LaRoche's ranch, etc?
At any rate, I agree it would be nice if we could stash Zim at first in the short term; hopefully in the long term that feeling fades.
All the glass half full people who think attack posters that are angry, from my standpoint, my anger comes from the last 2 games being out scored 21-4 in back to back games. Of which one of the teams, sucks (Padres). It is not the fact Nats lost to Giants, its the fact that they showed NO HEART or GUTS in trying to score even 1 run!!
Ghost, I think LaRoche was rescued by Davey more than Rizzo. And Davey has to manage the team on a day-by-day bases, and that's how he wanted the team. Now, Davey likes his big-boppers, but, for whatever reason (I can speculate, but that's all it would be) he didn't like the plan you outline.
Of course they should have traded Morse sooner, that goes without saying. Rizzo had to wait out LaRoche. I don't think you would have gotten that deal from Tampa, however. It is not their style to give up prospects for a one-year rental. Morse landed in the right place for him, and if Rizzo wants him back for 1/2 season, he can get him.
I don't like losing draft picks any more than you do, but if ever there was a year to lose them, it's when you are picking low and the pickings are poor anyway. Time to get the scouts out to see what unpolished gems are hiding in some obscure high school
Gonat said...
What a crappy start that was. This is going to put a lot of strain on the bullpen. Can't afford that.
You have to weigh putting Detwiler on the DL vs going to your long man in the bullpen and he has to go 5+ for you.
Fail.
May 20, 2013 11:28 PM
Wasn't that the truth. This was what I wrote about when they chose Duke but the fallback point today was perfect for some DFA's which didn't happen.
Henry Rodriguez is still employed.
Espinosa had trade value in the off-season. Now he has no value.
They did know by then that he was injured, and by rights would have had to disclose that, which might have reduced his value from its already-discounted position, I imagine. So maybe he did try to trade Danny and got no nibbles at all. Or maybe not.
I am not going to single out players, this is a full team explosion.
As far as Morse goes, some of you posters put words in people's mouths. Morse had a club house presence that is missing, so beyond the stats, he would have helped with team morale. The fact that Rizzo thought Werth would play in almost 162 without injury is mind boggling. He must have thought Tyler Moore would step up, this is where not having Morse is just catching up to the Nats
Duke and Henry simply have to go, trade them for ANYTHING
Team morale would be solved by winning. Morse having people loose and grinning while playing like this would have made no difference.
Show me a team that is happy losing and I'll show you a bunch of losers.
Actually, I also thought the Padres were bad, but they aren't. Pads are hot right now. They have gone 15-8 since April 24 after their rough start. Dodgers are bad, with a terrible bullpen, but we ran into Kershaw and Greinke. Giants are in a rough patch right now, and I'd like to take advantage.
Having a loose clubhouse can make a difference, but I don't think someone throwing talcum powder on him in the toilet would raise Danny's batting average by fifty points.
It's worth a shot, though, if they haven't tried it already. The silver Elvis wig was hilarious, but I don't know how many wins you can attribute to that.
mick, Duke has no trade value, what are you smoking? Henry might have some trade value for a team like the Cubs that is willing to take on a project, but they aren't going to trade prospects as they are looking toward the future.
mick-
You act like if you have HEART and GUTS you can score runs at will. That's not how baseball works. If it did, some teams would never get shut out, and the gutsiest, heartsiest team of all would score every inning.
Baseball is a skill sport, not an effort sport. There are some occasions where lack of focus or effort may affect performance, but you can't simply say that failure to score obviously reflects a lack of heart and guts. There's another team out there trying to keep our guys from scoring. Sometimes one side succeeds, sometimes the other succeeds. Did our guys have HEART and GUTS as recently as last Thursday and Friday, and then lose them over the weekend on a trip to Sea World or something?
NatsLady said...
Ghost, I think LaRoche was rescued by Davey more than Rizzo. And Davey has to manage the team on a day-by-day bases, and that's how he wanted the team. Now, Davey likes his big-boppers, but, for whatever reason (I can speculate, but that's all it would be) he didn't like the plan you outline.
They didn't like Morse. I almost felt like it was Country Club snobbery that he wasn't one of theirs. I don't know why but I always got that feeling just like John Lannan.
You are right, Davey wanted LaRoche back but I still believe it was without seeing the larger picture that he was due for serious regression given his age.
Morse OTOH was in a contract year and that's a guy you want to hitch your trailer to.
On the good side, I loved the Soriano signing although it was an overpay and I loved the Denard Span trade after they didn't go after Justin Upton which was really the trade Rizzo could have made.
Now you deal with what you do have and while you look at the team its still a sum of all parts. Great starting pitching, good back of the bullpen, but the worst hitting I have seen in 5 years here.
well Nats Lady, their 5th pitcher who was struggling and was suppose to get rocked (remenber) just beat us 8-0, now Giants have their World Series aces, bottom line, based on the HEARTLESS effort last night, Nats may be not score a run, return home one under 500.
Nats are 5th 6th in attendance which is awesome, and they are playing at this level. With the Phillies coming, I do not think it is too early say that it is a MUST WIN series!!
And, as far as team windows go, I understand the thought that Rizzo is trying to build the anti Marlins, a team that doesn't just win one year but a couple of arm injuries and this team doesn't look so good. You need to win while you can; thinking this really good team will be better next year is a fools errand, nothing is promised to you.
In fact, now that you mention it, I can think of more examples of teams succeeding after somebody cracked down on the knuckleheadedness and got people to take their jobs seriously (Kirk Gibson with LA comes to mind first), than of teams that won because somebody threw bubblegum at them during an interview.
mick said...
Duke and Henry simply have to go, trade them for ANYTHING
May 21, 2013 10:20 AM
They have no trade value. DFA. Bring up Romero and the kid they got in the Morse trade.
bowdenball
this was Giants 5th pitcher whose ERA was off the charts. I said I have no problem with the loss, but Nats had both Harper and Desi back and they could not get 1 run, one run to at least salvage some respect verse a struggling pitcher.
Mick,
You are certainly entitled to feel how you feel but as I recall there were more than a few occasions last year when you were ready to jump off a tall building and just as now you were advocating DFA'ing players left and right and that team won 98 games.
Bowdenball is right in his perspective. The Baseball season unlike football ebbs and flows and takes multiple turns. If you feel that this is a good solid contending team then you just have to go with the flow.
I am not sure where you are coming from when you question a team's HEART. How exactly do you arrive at that conclusion?
also, do you think the Nats batters looked focused at the plate? they looked like they wanted to home after the 5th inning, that is what my beef is.
mick, I watched the game. Vogelsong had his game going. It was annoying that we could do nothing against the lousy relievers, too. But, I never expected to win that game, so 8-0 means nothing, in fact, it's better than losing 2-1 in 12 innings, maybe it's even better than WINNING 2-1 in 12 innings and having nothing left in the tank for Stras and Gio.
At this point in this 162 baseball season, it is time to start worrying and maybe panicking.
I am not a baseball expert and I am not going to act like I am a GM like some posters here think they are.
Anyways, someone needs to step up. Someone needs to do something that can motivate the whole team. Maybe a dominate Strasburg outing, someone hitting for cycle or someone hitting 3 homeruns on a game. I hope something happens soon.
"Team morale would be solved by winning. Morse having people loose and grinning while playing like this would have made no difference.
Show me a team that is happy losing and I'll show you a bunch of losers."
I agree. I think Morse is a guy who was a net positive last year, and whose possible contributions this year are unwritten. So, it's easy to assume he would've been that little lift that everyone would need.
But, that was last year. I just don't see any reason to assume he would've been the silver bullet this year. You can't UNTZ your way to a win ;).
JD
And I mellowed at the half way mark and rarely if ever was critical
In 2013 my conclusion is based on the fact that in 2012, the Nats never lost games in this fashion, read my post on last nights game, everyone seems to want to forget that the Nats were facing the Giants worse pitcher, coming off an embarrasing loss to the Padres. Additionally, the Nats had Harper and Desi back in the lineup and to not score is just amazing to me.
You are right, we all have our opinions, if you are OK with this level of play, then fine.
Yikes, what a difference a (bad) day makes. Yesterday I said the BP is what it is, not great but not horrible either. Today, based on one blown up starter and a fight with a locker, it's in shreds. Gee thanks Zach and RyanM.
As NL said, with the off day, the Nats can rest Det until May 28 without using another spot starter. Now is the time for the other four to step up big time. If that happens we won't have to see Maya on the mound at all, which would be fine with me.
Now we know when H-Rod will be used -- mopping up in blow out games. I guess that's one way to avoid his developing into a lights out closer for another team, but it's kind of depressing.
What the Nats need to turn things around is the same as it was yesterday -- Harper and Werth to get healthy, Zim's erratic defense to lessen, and a solution to the black hole in the lineup playing 2B. With good starting pitching, we can muddle through everything else.
NatsLady said...I don't like losing draft picks any more than you do, but if ever there was a year to lose them, it's when you are picking low and the pickings are poor anyway. Time to get the scouts out to see what unpolished gems are hiding in some obscure high school
There are some High School arms that will go to the end of the 1st round or 2nd round that have huge potential. This Kaminsky kid in NY is one of them and there are others.
Then you have a couple more toolsy kids that you never know when you will find that Mike Stanton available at the end of the 1st round or like happened with him in 2007 he went in the 2nd round. Hunter Renfroe if he can hit a MLB breaking pitch is that guy. Country strong and crushes every mistake pitch he has ever seen.
There will always be gems in every Draft. You just have to find them and develop them.
mick, they probably did want to go home. I would too. It's a long road trip, it was icy cold and windy and the chances of you coming back from 7-0 were nada, a complete waste of energy. There is no glory in a 7-5 loss. None.
Bob Saget Nats Fan 101
good point, I thought that happen Friday night with Tracy's homer, instead, Nats are playing last place baseball. Any other contender would have used that win on Friday to propel them on a streak
Ghost,
I think Davie wanted ALR over Morse for 2 reasons.
1) Left handed bat.
2) Defense.
I think these were and still are valid reasons. Also, LaRoche has turned his season around and he's not the problem right now. If we get Span, Harper, Zim, LaRoche and Desi all going at the same time we'll score some runs. Lombo hitting 2nd does boggle the mind.
Pretty sure they were trying to score runs, mick. It didn't work, obviously, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't the goal.
The problem isn't "heart." It's extremely cold hitters, regulars who are banged up and suffering from a wide range of injuries, and a bench that appears to have played over its head last year. We can't really know much about the psychology of a bunch of people we don't know.
Section222, you can't turn a 2-0 game into a 4-0 game and then into a 8-0 game. You have to stay in striking distance at all times.
You don't need mop-up guys on a good team. You need versatile moving parts that are multi-dimensional and this team needs to get back to situational relieving like they used to do with matchups. Davey can't do that with this bullpen any more. Stammen and Mattheus and Burnett were all key guys in situational spots. Just look at Game 1 of the playoffs what Mattheus pulled off. 2 pitches and got 3 outs with bases loaded and no outs.
Good post, Andrew@9:06.....
(Hey.... Did I see a pic of you, looking really proud, next to a young person in a very fancy red robe, last week?)....;-)
mick said...
"this was Giants 5th pitcher whose ERA was off the charts. I said I have no problem with the loss, but Nats had both Harper and Desi back and they could not get 1 run, one run to at least salvage some respect verse a struggling pitcher."
Vogelsong's ERA in 2012 was 3.37. His ERA is 2011 was 2.71.
How come you expect Nats players to perform to the levels they've shown they are capable of in previous games, months and seasons, but dismiss the possibility that players on other teams can do the same?
"Any other contender would have used that win on Friday to propel them on a streak"
Yeah. And, I bet Bud Black and Bruce Bochy were standing by awaiting word on our plans... ;)
JD said...
Ghost,
I think Davie wanted ALR over Morse for 2 reasons.
1) Left handed bat.
2) Defense.
I think these were and still are valid reasons. Also, LaRoche has turned his season around and he's not the problem right now. If we get Span, Harper, Zim, LaRoche and Desi all going at the same time we'll score some runs. Lombo hitting 2nd does boggle the mind.
May 21, 2013 10:37 AM
LaRoche helped the Nats win Game 1 last year in Wrigley.
They needed an equally good start for him and he's a big reason why the Nats didn't do better in April.
He's also a big reason why the Nats aren't doing worse in May.
Signing him to a 2 year deal was over-kill. Nobody was offering him anything. I think it was a bad signing. If they were going to do that they needed to do it in November so they could have maximized Morse's trade value as one of the most sought after players early in the Hot Stove. That's where the mistake was made.
LaRoche wouldn't have taken a 2 year deal (or a 1-year-deal) earlier than he did, though. He wanted to explore all options and see if someone would offer him 3.
Do you all think that Tyler Moore has just lost it, or has the whole league got a book on him after last year? Some have said that he has started hitting the ball hard, but not getting any breaks.I'm not seeing him make enough contact to agree with that assessment. He has struck out in over 40% of his plate appearances. I can't remember anyone with that ratio. Not even Adam Dunn, Dave Kingman, or Bye-Bye Balboni.
Speaking of clubhouse jokers keeping the locker room loose, Dunn was great at that, too, but I always thought that he took losing too gracefully.I miss Morse in many ways, but not his play in LF. He has an OK arm, a terrific glove when he gets to the ball, but slow is an understatement, so he just doesn't get there often enough.
EmDash, I'm going to have a rare disagreement. Think back to the game that Mattheus melted down in. It was pretty much gone, and Henry was peacefully mopping up. Then they got a few runs (so it was 7-4) and Davey thought he saw a chance for a win, pulled Henry and inserted Mattheus. (Henry could have gone two or three innings.) Davey strayed from his policy of not trying to win unwinnable games. Mattheus wasn't ready--mentally--and Davey even had to use Storen.
I'm not just rewriting history, I promise. I was puzzled at the time that Davey suddenly reversed course. Davey should have left Henry in for another inning. If by some miracle it was 7-6, that is the time to bring Mattheus in, he has had another inning to prepare and he can see his time is coming.
@UnkyD said...
Good post, Andrew@9:06.....
(Hey.... Did I see a pic of you, looking really proud, next to a young person in a very fancy red robe, last week?)....;-)
May 21, 2013 10:41 AM
Glad I saw your post. That wasn't my post. I think there are several Andrew's and Drew's.
I'm just a lurker but yes, that was my oldest son who just graduated yesterday with a PhD in Electrical Engineering from the Clark School at University of Maryland.
Somehow I've managed to do a few things right in my life. 2 finished with college now and 3 more to go! Thanks for the kind words!
So, yeah, when it was a blowout by the fifth inning, the boys were playing to not get injured and go home and fight another day. LaRoche was playing for his streak, that's about it.
EmDash,
You are exactly right. Everyone was talking about a 3 year deal for ALR after the season he had. It was a given that he could get 2 years elsewhere. I still think that A.J Cole is still a great haul for 1 year of Michael Morse.
[Duke and Henry] have no trade value. DFA. Bring up Romero and the kid they got in the Morse trade.
You want to bring up a guy whose name you can't even remember? Come on Ghost, back off the ledge. I really think H-Rod hate at this particular point in time is misplaced. He made over 60 pitches in two days in two blowout games, a thankless task to be sure. Give the guy a break.
As for Duke, what did you expect? John Lannan? I'm not sure I agree that Davey was throwing this game, but clearly the odds were low that we would win it. Duke was put in a tough spot, and he didn't come through. Would you have preferred Chris Young or Yunesky Maya for three starts? That was the alternative if Rizzo DL'd Det to call up a replacement starter.
We still need a lefty long reliever for the long haul. JC Romero is not that guy, neither is Abad. I think those predicting that Duke would have been DFA'd this morning if Mattheus's stupidity hadn't manifested itself in such a bizarre way are off base.
NatsLady said...
Davey strayed from his policy of not trying to win unwinnable games.
I must have missed that memo. That's pure fiction. If Davey is within 4 runs, he's going for it but this is part of the problem. You only need 1 long man to act as a mop up but he can't be an embarrassment like Zach Duke.
"Then they got a few runs (so it was 7-4) and Davey thought he saw a chance for a win, pulled Henry and inserted Mattheus. (Henry could have gone two or three innings.)"
I, too, was shocked when Henry didn't get another inning that day. I definitely see what the Nats see in him, and Sunday seemed like a perfect opportunity to let it shine through, or not. A non-pressure situation turned moderate-pressure situation might be just the sort of thing he needs, actually.
Joe,
IMO (re Moore) it's a little of both. Again given the fact that Werth is out for q acouple more weeks I would play Moore against all left handers and Bernie against all right handers.
Congrats, Mr. Lang!! What an accomplishment!
I still think that A.J Cole is still a great haul for 1 year of Michael Morse.
AND - we get to keep the song!
JD said...
EmDash,
You are exactly right. Everyone was talking about a 3 year deal for ALR after the season he had. It was a given that he could get 2 years elsewhere.
Where were they? It was very weak rumor and I don't believe there was another team in the running. I think Rizzo offered him the original deal he offered him in November. Nobody was stepping forward. Everyone seemed to fill their needs and while Houston needed him they weren't going to spend the money.
I don't disagree, NatsLady. I do kind of think Henry's use over the last few days shows how little the org values him, though - granted they were in a rough spot being short-handed, but Henry had arm pain and stayed in anyway. Doubt they would've done that with many other players.
I think Tyler's been figured out a bit and he hasn't adjusted - throw him breaking balls low and out of the zone and he'll try to swing at them. No need to give him anything hittable.
And you can make fun of this team not having the "heart" to come from behind, but that comes from Davey. He doesn't go all out to win the low percentage games, he'd rather use his resources protecting leads. I don't know what his style was with previous teams, but that is his style now. He deviated from it on Sunday--not a wise decision, in my view.
Sect222, I was feeling lazy to look up his name. His name is Krol.
Guys do seem a little tight. They need a hilarious distraction to get them to loosen up. Like, say, a picture of a blond-mustachoied Steve McCatty in a bathing suit in 30 year old Playgirl magazine. That oughta do it.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20639
Personally, I think Rizzo values Henry more than Davey does. I would be interested in McCatty's view, but we probably won't hear it.
Where were they? It was very weak rumor and I don't believe there was another team in the running.
LaRoche, and his agent, couldn't know that, and would not be inclined to assume it, early on, and what did he have to lose by waiting? He waited until the market shook out after 2010, and he was going to do that after 2012, because there was no reason not to. None. You know that.
Wow, bowdenball!!!!! I don't have enough LOLs for that.
Section 222 said...
I really think H-Rod hate at this particular point in time is misplaced.
My H-Rod hate isn't hate. It's a perpetuation of going on 3 years of a player who isn't MLB quality. It's not a rant. It's not hindsight. It's what I have written about since they traded for him and Spring Training 2011. He just isn't good. He's a thrower and not a pitcher. Davey is lucky he didn't have a 12-0 final score as that is where it was heading if LaRoche doesn't field that hot shot and gun out the runner at the plate in the 7th.
Aw c'mon??
Seriously? Between AA & AAA all we have to draw on is Maya and Abad?
Wad about Eric Davis?
bowdenball, WOW! That's hilarious!!!
"I would be interested in McCatty's view [on Henry]"
Definitely.
Bowdenball, I have to wash my eyes after seeing that. OMG
Doc, see above on Davis. He's not a long reliever. He may be up to take Mattheus' spot as soon as Stammen is rested, Maya goes back to Syracuse and Duke is DFA. Or if Henry goes on the DL with arm soreness, again, you have to figure Davis will be up. Davey wanted at least one lefty for the near future, hence Abad.
I think if I were in the clubhouse, I'd make a posterboard of that McCatty picture like they did with the owner in Major League, except wearing a tuxedo instead of a dress of course. For every win they could remove a section until they finally clinch the NL East in late September and get to reveal their legendary pitching coach in all his bathing glory.
Doc said...
Aw c'mon??
Seriously? Between AA & AAA all we have to draw on is Maya and Abad?
Wad about Eric Davis?
May 21, 2013 11:08 AM
Maya is here as a long man if needed. Abad is here to take Mattheus spot.
When Werth comes back, 1 person from the bullpen gets sent somewhere.
I still wonder why you wait. The moves that have needed to be made aren't getting made. Henry and Duke has to go and TyMo needs time at AAA.
The Espinosa situation still hasn't been resolved and Lombo once again gets a start at 2nd and sucked it up at the plate. Who tells Lombo that he needs to be a power hitter on days he starts at 2nd base? 4 lousy at-bats.
bowdenball, I think that may prove to be a bit of a disincentive. *g*
The team lack leadership. The one absent factor on this trip was Werth. Maybe Werth's value to the determination of this team and his style of leadership are more important than realized.
The problem is not pitching. It's offense.
Davey must not have liked what he saw in Perez if he'd rather have Lombo and/or Moore in the outfield, even for a few days. Nothing stopped them from DFAing Duke and not needing to send Perez down. I understand Perez can't hit major-league pitching, but he's not alone in that.
JamesFan, agree. Hopefully Werth will be in the dugout for the Filly series. I'm sure he wanted to be on the field.
mick said...
well Nats Lady, their 5th pitcher who was struggling and was suppose to get rocked
mick -- their pitcher was struggling, but he has a boat-load of talent (all star in 2011, was 3-0 in post-season last year (four starts, allowed only 3 runs)). Vogelsong finally got it together last night against a team that's been scuffling at the plate.
Vogelsong is a good pitcher. Look it up. He had a bad start to the year, but so did Strasburg. That doesn't mean they both stink.
Alexva is correct -- more moves in three days. Maya is here as Stammen's understudy; Abad as Mattheus's. Once Stammen is recovered (Friday), Maya could go back to Syracuse -- except there is a very high likelihood Duke will be the one who goes (somebody said he has no trade value, which is kind; he also has no waiver "value" and would slide straight through to Syracuse if not released outright). Watch for Johnson to invent reasons to put Abad in during the next three games, probably one or two hitters at a time, to see if he is a mirage.
They are now playing one position player short, so I really expect two pitchers to leave ultimately. The question is who/what comes back. Perez is a cipher. I assume Rizzo is looking for someone to provide a spark -- even if only for three-four games -- and Perez ain't it. You can't spark a team with infield hits, which is the best he's got to offer. The bench (such as it is), right now, tilts toward left. The most logical option is Kobernus, though he's not a masher, either.
Cut down on the caffeine, people. Everything before the All-Star break is just for pole position in the second half, and the Braves aren't running away with anything before then.
Unless, of course, you like to get hysterical over what amounts to a reality TV show. ("I am THROUGH with Pawn Stars! Why does Chumley have a job at all??")
OK, so, my youngest son (8 months) has been waking up earlier and earlier (5 a.m. yesterday), so when we were down 2 - 0 after 3, I decided I'd go to bed with hope in my heart and try to catch up on some sleep.
Go figure, I couldn't fall asleep. I checked in at the bottom of the 4th. I found it strange that Duke was pulled immediately after recording the first out with runners on first and third and Vogelsong up to bat. What was up with that?
Wonk, Bochy stuck with Vogelsong through a lot of pressure to take him out of the rotation. I was reading Giants blogs for a few days before our series to get a feel what was happening and the fans were up in arms. Bochy is not in a good place with Cain up-and-down, Lincecum only semi-reliable sometimes when he's at home, and Vogelsong getting lit up. Other than Romo, the bullpen is chancy too, and the team has been making a lot of mental errors.
What FP said about coasting on the WS is nonsense. That's not how it works, no professional athlete says, yeah, "two rings, that's my limit." (Anyway, the 2012 team was different than 2010). But, Sabean did stick with most of the same cast who won last year, and took some criticism for it, especially Scutaro.
Sec. 3, My Natural Sofa said...
Cut down on the caffeine, people. Everything before the All-Star break is just for pole position in the second half,
Agreed. I've read that a rough rule of thumb is that you spend the first 1/3 of a season figuring out what you got; the second third getting what you need, shaking it out and putting it all together, and the last third is all-out home stretch.
Perusing the Syracuse and Harrisburg rosters, there just aren't any really useful pieces (except for he -- according to many -- who shall not be named). Marrero has no position except 1B; Owings is a clone of Moore (or is it the other way around) and, anyway, has cooled; Rivero and Walters are having crumby seasons; Brown is LH (like Bernadina); and Perez and Kobernus are power-ciphers. That's the whole lineup. And there are no LHs of any value anywhere in the BP. (And don't tell me Romero; he isn't going to suddenly become good at his age.)
Sec 3, I like that way of looking at it. It's the rare team that runs away with their Division before the All-Star break. Just keep your horse in line, keep within striking distance.
Theo, you still ride hot hands from your Minor Leaguers especially since the teams you face don't have scouting reports. Its extreme short-term gain but you are right, they aren't long-term solutions.
Still, I would take short-term gain right now.
NatsLady said...
Davey must not have liked what he saw in Perez if he'd rather have Lombo and/or Moore in the outfield, even for a few days. Nothing stopped them from DFAing Duke and not needing to send Perez down. I understand Perez can't hit major-league pitching, but he's not alone in that.
I would have sent TyMo back but Davey didn't even use Eury for pinch-running which is Eury's best tool. That was disappointing. Use the guys you have.
Agreed about Eury...really strange he never pinch ran.
I will go back to it. 4.70 runs per game and this team wins 96+ with no problem. You will NEVER win a game scoring ZERO in baseball unless there's a forfeit by the other team.
Eric, y'know, now that you mention it, that was kind of an early pull on Duke. I thought he was going 5 innings heck-or-high water. He was in trouble, no doubt, but he got out of trouble before. Maybe was limited to 60 or 70 pitches? (He was at 58). Maybe the plan was only for him to go four innings but then Stammen should have known that, and he clearly didn't. That's two games now in a row where I have not understood Davey's moves.
Yeah, it was very strange. The bunt was pretty obvious, so there's out number two most likely, leaving one on and two outs.
I suppose it could be a pitch count thing, but with the likelihood of the above scenario it was quite possible he wouldn't go much over 60 pitches.
hmmm...some of those pics might not make it through filters. Nice shot of Ron Burgundy in #4, though. Wait, what?
bowdenball said...
Guys do seem a little tight. They need a hilarious distraction to get them to loosen up. Like, say, a picture of a blond-mustachoied Steve McCatty in a bathing suit in 30 year old Playgirl magazine. That oughta do it.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20639
May 21, 2013 11:04 AM
Ghost, 4.7 runs a game and the CUBS could win 96 games. Their team ERA is 3.67, charge 'em 1 unearned per game and 4.7 runs of offense, and they're all set. IOW, much as I love stats, I don't think it works that way.
"like"
bowdenball said...
I think if I were in the clubhouse, I'd make a posterboard of that McCatty picture like they did with the owner in Major League, except wearing a tuxedo instead of a dress of course. For every win they could remove a section until they finally clinch the NL East in late September and get to reveal their legendary pitching coach in all his bathing glory.
May 21, 2013 11:12 AM
awww, I like Chumley.
Sec. 3, My Natural Sofa said...
Cut down on the caffeine, people. Everything before the All-Star break is just for pole position in the second half, and the Braves aren't running away with anything before then.
Unless, of course, you like to get hysterical over what amounts to a reality TV show. ("I am THROUGH with Pawn Stars! Why does Chumley have a job at all??")
May 21, 2013 11:25 AM
Kinda hard to pinch run when you don't have baserunners.
Re: McCatty posterboard, how about he STARTS in all his bathing glory and is slowly clothed, starting with his socks, ending with a shirt, and including some pasties somewhere along the way. I bet that that would motivate them ;).
Good one.
Theophilus T. S. said...
Kinda hard to pinch run when you don't have baserunners.
May 21, 2013 11:52 AM
>Kinda hard to pinch run when you don't have baserunners.
There is that. But I think the reference is to not pinch-running for Tracy late in the game or Lombo if you have a steal/hit-and-run situation.
NatsLady, I agree that FP's comment on the Giants coasting on two WS wins as a cause for their recent slump was nonsense. It may be a reflection of my irritation at our recent game results but FP's commentary this year ranges from lame to annoying. I'm spending a lot more time on mute these days just to avoid him.
I have not given up. There is plenty of time to get things back on track. The extra delay on Werth was a real blow. He adds a lot to the lineup. So many slumps---Desmond is currently in a 0 for 20 period.
> I bet that that would motivate them ;).
Motivate them to do what, though? You are talking unpredictable results, here. What exactly is the hypothesis for this experiment?
Er, that was entirely in jest, NatsLady. The "motivating factor" to win in the movie Major league was seeing more and more of the owner's skin; in this case, it would be to see less and less of McCatty's.
Ghost, Davey doesn't play to win every game. If a game is 7-0 or even 4-0 he will let the team win it IF it happens, and he will switch course if it gets close, but he is not going all out to make moves down 3 or more runs. He just isn't. I've watching him for almost two years now, and he plays to keep his players healthy and rested for the games (and series) he thinks he CAN win. You may think a 4-0 game is winnable--and it certainly is--but on the percentages, it's rare, except in real hitters parks.
Eric, Ah, got it. Me, I would just be running in the other direction as fast as I could.
Ha!
Eric, er, and I was trying to riff back, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Oh, well. Humor on the internetz is overrated anyway.
funny thing is that they have as many wins now as they did same time last year
The "motivating factor" to win in the movie Major league was seeing more and more of the owner's skin;
Well, if this were a serious context, I might point out less innocuous alternative motivations. But it ain't. And I'm pretty sure NL was joking, too.
NatsLady, I posted that "riff" comment before I saw your "running in the other direction comment." I got your gist, which is why I deleted...sorry about that!
HEY!!! LAY OFF CHUMLY!!!!
OH! So, the answer to your question "motivate them to do what" might be "run the other way as fast as possible."
I think I get it now ;).
HEY!!! LAY OFF CHUMLY!!!!
Lay off, nothing -- the guy sells with no heart for it. Designate him for assignment, or trade him to Detroit and Extreme Pawn.
Uh hmmm I think I mentioned earlier that the first move they would make by June 1st would to bring up Abad. Maya is a surprise. He hasn't been as effective as Rosenbaum ... but he isn't even close to as bad a Young and the ex-reliever Ryan Perry has been subject to somewhat lesser implosions.
Advanced stats DO HOWEVER show that Maya is 2nd on the staff as a starter followed by Tatusko at this point. Adjusted ERA's XRA of 4.12
and 3.73.
So, you are looking at advanced stats as a potential guide Maya was the right choice at this time since Tatusko is not a regular starter.
Maya features a 17% strike out against 7% walk ratio which is pretty good.
And there are no LHs of any value anywhere in the BP. (And don't tell me Romero; he isn't going to suddenly become good at his age.)
Not quite dude. Abad has been very effective with an ajusted ERA of 3.60. The best is Erik Davis (and he is on the 40-man) with an ajusted ERA of 1.41. He looks like the real deal.
The guy they picked up from Houston Xavier Cedeno has been effective as a lefty with a 2.29 adjusted ERA. He too is on the 40-man. Romero hasn't been bad with a 2.73 adjusted ERA.
So, there are some pretty good bullpen types available. Even if you don't see them Theophilius.
NatsLady said...
Ghost, Davey doesn't play to win every game. If a game is 7-0 or even 4-0 he will let the team win it IF it happens, and he will switch course if it gets close, but he is not going all out to make moves down 3 or more runs. He just isn't. I've watching him for almost two years now, and he plays to keep his players healthy and rested for the games (and series) he thinks he CAN win. You may think a 4-0 game is winnable--and it certainly is--but on the percentages, it's rare, except in real hitters parks.
Davey plays every game to win but as circumstances change he is smart enough to not use up his best bullpen assets unless things change as they do in baseball.
If they Nats kept it close last night, he may not have used Henry.
Davey needs a better front of the bullpen and Abad is the first step. Maya is only there as an emergency long man right now until they figure out what to do.
Also, um, small sample size? What?
NatsLady said...
> I bet that that would motivate them ;).
Motivate them to do what, though? You are talking unpredictable results, here. What exactly is the hypothesis for this experiment?
May 21, 2013 11:57 AM
Eric said...
Er, that was entirely in jest, NatsLady. The "motivating factor" to win in the movie Major league was seeing more and more of the owner's skin; in this case, it would be to see less and less of McCatty's.
May 21, 2013 12:00 PM
May 21, 2013 12:30 PM
"Also, um, small sample? What?"
Zing!
The right moves were made. The real crux of the problem is the pitching.
I'm not sure the moves address the problem but ... you have to wonder how long they will keep Duke if they decided they needed to have Maya in case Detwiler wouldn't be ready in 10 days.
This team was built to be defense and pitching first. Especially if you are going to feature two inconsistent 33 year olds (oops 1 is now 34) in the heart of the lineup along with your best hitter coming back from shoulder surgery.
Pitching and defense have been the main issues and I assume those are the ones Rizzo is going to address.
Davis is a RH, Peric. Were he a LH, he'd already be up. And I didn't count Abad, because for the moment he is on the 25-man. Cedeno and Romero, on the basis of their recent career histories, don't merit serious consideration. I am assuming the Nats would really like to jettison Duke. But Abad as a LOOGY/set-up man doesn't cover the role intended for Duke. If you've got a one-inning LH, e.g., Burnett, then you need a second, e.g., M. Gonzalez. However, they don't have a replacement for Duke, even if Abad pitches lights out.
Agreed about Eury...really strange he never pinch ran.
Davey still doesn't trust him. That one game where he stole a base with the stop sign up must still weigh with Davey.
I am assuming the Nats would really like to jettison Duke.
Davey might go with Maya in that role. The only other real LH option for that role is Rosenbaum. But the advanced stats clearly show that due to recent flawed starts by Daniel, Maya is more effective.
Peric, here's the problem with MiLB players. Their stats are great facing guys whose careers end at AA and AAA. They aren't facing Hunter Pence and Buster Posey and Marco Scutaro and Brandon Belt.
You seem to keep forgetting that some of the best Minor Leaguers are Major busts. If the Nats saw the writing on the wall with Danny Espinosa in mid-2011 just like the Cubs did last year with Bryan LaHair, the Nats may not be wondering why they have so many holes in the lineup.
Both Cedeno and Romero as well as Crotta have been far more effective than highly touted Patrick McCoy who I think was demoted a level.
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