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USA Today Sports Images Jordan Zimmermann stands to earn a big raise either way through arbitration. |
Zimmermann is seeking a salary of $5.8 million; the Nationals have countered with an offer of $4.6 million, according to CBSSports.com.
The right-hander was the only one of the Nationals' seven arbitration-eligible players not to come to a deal before tonight's deadline. Drew Storen ($2.5 million), Ian Desmond ($3.8 million), Ross Detwiler ($2.3375 million), Tyler Clippard ($4 million) and Roger Bernadina ($1.215 million) all agreed to one-year deals. Craig Stammen, meanwhile, signed a two-year deal worth a total of $2.25 million.
Whether he wins in arbitration or not, Zimmermann stands to earn a hefty raise from his 2012 salary of $2.3 million. Entering his second of four arbitration seasons -- he qualified as a "Super 2" player last winter -- Zimmermann is coming off a breakthrough year in which he went 12-8 with a 2.94 ERA in 32 starts.
The 26-year-old and the Nationals still could negotiate a contract on their own before an arbitration hearing is held next month. The two sides also could continue to discuss a long-term extension, something general manager Mike Rizzo has expressed interest in accomplishing.
Terms of a potential long-term deal could eclipse the five-year, $42 million contract Gio Gonzalez received last winter following his acquisition from the Athletics.
86 comments:
Pay the man, Shirley!
You said it DHamm!, but don't call him Shirley!
Where's Ted? Stop talking to Bora$ get on over to the JZimm negotiations.
How much should he make in a long term deal? How much more would Strasburg get!?
5 7 9 10 12 = 43 mil at least. plus incentives.
Stras? Are you kidding? Harran's salary the first year rising after that.
Stras is probably 130 million for 5 or 6 at least.
NatsJack in Florida said...That's a pretty big gap. I don't see Jordan winning in arbitration. Maybe $5 Mil gets it done.
Does Zimmermann's agent point out that the Nats paid Lannan - not nearly as good a pitcher - $5 million to keep his arm warm in Syracuse?
I don't think its about arbitration they just need more time to negotiate the extension. Given recent history and Ted Lerner's sudden largesse in the Rizzo era? I'd guess it wasn't about amounts but more about guaranteed money over what time frame, incentives and the ubiquitous and always possible no-trade clause.
Good stuff from Kilgore on the Convo with McCatty Store/Clipp
Mark has the link on the "Other Nats Blogs"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2013/01/18/steve-mccatty-drew-storen-tyler-clippard-took-rafael-soriano-signing-like-professionals/
Check out the Jason Hamel Orioles gap. percentage huge gap.
Check out the Jason Hamel Orioles gap. percentage huge gap.
the Angel'Os Orioles are notoriously cheap.
Chase Headley and the Padres are more than $3 million apart.
I really hope we sign Jordon for the long term.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/18/arbitration-filings-chase-headleys-10-3-million-request-leads-way/
Chase Headley is $3 million apart but its about 30% difference as you're going $7 mil to $20 mil.
The Orioles and Hamel are the largest percentage apart. In their case, Hamel is nuts since he was injured and the Orioles offered $1.5 to low.
Candide, Lannan isn't a comparison for Jordan in the arbitration process. Lannan made $5mil in his 2nd to last year of arb. Jordan still has 2 more. Not to mention they are a completely different statistical comparison and Lannan had no injury history compared to Jordan.
I think an extension for Jordan will be in the format of what the Rangers just did with Matt Harrison.
The Nats got a huge bargain from Gio with his contract. a 5 year $55mil deal like Harrison's seems to be my guess of what it will take to get it done.
I read the WaPo article with McCatty quotes. My feeling is Drew's initial attitude with his quotes did him in moreso than the game which was a stepping stone to not repeat past mistakes.
Here's the quote from Storen which is troublesome:
"I made good pitches. I wouldn't change a thing. I have no regrets."
How can your owner and GM trust you when you are saying you would do it all over again the same way? It didn't work then, it may or may not work in the future. It was a flawed approach given that exact situation.
Now we have Rafael Soriano.
The Nats got a huge bargain from Gio with his contract. a 5 year $55mil deal like Harrison's seems to be my guess of what it will take to get it done.
If its distributed the right way to ensure the franchise doesn't exceed the new luxury tax barrier. Strasburg, Harper, et al are going to levy a heavy toll on the payroll very soon.
Here's the quote from Storen which is troublesome:
"I made good pitches. I wouldn't change a thing. I have no regrets."
There is absolutely nothing about that quote that is troublesome. Those pitches weren't missed by feet, they were missed by inches. Many of them were so close that they could have been called strikes. Those were good pitches. They just missed. It happens.
Feelwood. I gave my opinion. I respect your opinion but don't tell me there is absolutely nothing that is troublesome because it was troublesome to me so I am 1 person who found it troublesome. If it isn't troublesome to you add that to your sentence like:
"There is absolutely nothing about that quote that is troublesome to me".
Try it sometime. This is about opinions. You aren't judge, jury, and executioner.
peric said...
I don't think its about arbitration they just need more time to negotiate the extension.
I hope that's the case. It would make the wait worth it.
"There is absolutely nothing about that quote that is troublesome to me".
Try it sometime. This is about opinions. You aren't judge, jury, and executioner.
Lighten up, jerk. I don't recall your original comment saying "Here's the part of the quote that is troublesome to me." What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Anything that anyone says here is nothing more than their own personal opinion. There is no need to append language stating that to anything that is said here.
Feelwood, I was giving my opinion in the original post. I wasn't responding to anyone and that's the difference. If I was responding as I normally do I do it without the know-it-all loser attitude that you bring here each and every day.
Gonat said...
Feelwood, I was giving my opinion in the original post. I wasn't responding to anyone and that's the difference.
I was giving my opinion in my response, too. It was an opinion I didn't actually have until I saw your comment and was prompted to think about the topic. I simply quoted your comment to give some context to the opinion I was stating. Are you seriously telling me that if I had written those same sentences without including the quote from you that you wouldn't have a problem? If that's the case, you need to develop a thicker skin. Just because someone expresses an opinion that differs from yours does not mean they are attacking you, or belittling you, or anything of the sort. In real life, if you say something and someone responds with a differing opinion does that make you think they're a know-it-all loser? If so, I feel sorry for you.
This same comment applies to Section222 and SteveM, who seem to be in lockstep with you.
FeelWood those pitches didn't miss by inches. They didn't miss. He was robbed. Rivera throws those pitches 6 inches away and they are strikes.
If you aren't getting the strike calls, you have to adjust to the umpire. Rivera and Greg Maddux got away with murder but they took what they gave him.
When your approach isn't working and its the last game of the year possibly, you better change your approach as there may be no tomorrow.
K Zone had one missed early strike against Molina otherwise the ump was right on the rest.
Its called close but no cigar
Here's the Official FX. 2 strikes were called balls and 1 ball was called a strike. The 1st pitch to Molina was a strike and called a ball.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=519322&game=gid_2012_10_12_slnmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif
Well, Rizzo has done more than tinker with the roster and lineup. I guess we'll see if he didn't "fix what wasn't broke", or if his improvements were legit.
I'll be interested in seeing what Davey has to say about things when he gets back from Safari.
FeelWood those pitches didn't miss by inches. They didn't miss. He was robbed. Rivera throws those pitches 6 inches away and they are strikes.
SCNats,
You do realize you may have just provided what might in the end be the best justification for the Soriano move?
Peric wait until Harper gets the calls like veterans do he will be crushing the ball
Whats done is done, now looking back at it i thought at the time that they were strikes and Suzuki was pushign them down, any merit to this idea anyone else think the same? Look at the replay again (although i know it might be painful) and tell me if you think im right and Suzuki was pushign the balls out of the strike zone.
What was troublesome about Storen was him nibbling at corners when he needed to blow it by those guys that inning. He wasn't getting calls but he kept nibbling instead of trusting his stuff. That was so irritating about "THE INNING OF DOOM"
Gonat - you certainly have the right to your opinion and feelwood is not the easiest to deal with but I am not upset about the quote and quite honestly would be more upset if he said something like "man, I sure did blow that, sorry".
Not that any quote after a game like that is easy but what would have had him say to make you feel better. What can anyone say right after a game like that? The fact that he stood there and took questions made me feel good about him as well. He is a competitor and faced the music. Had to be almost as tough as the results on the field.
These guys are pros for a reason and part of their success is a huge belief in themselves. Glad that Storen still has that. He will close more games for our Nationals in the years to come.
Go Nats!! World Series or Bust!!
Concerning Jordan Z. It has always been my thought that he is our most important signing of this off-season. I realize we have had some unexpected moves and I think we are stronger but I really hoped to see him get a similar deal to Gio. I do understand we have him for two more years after this but in my opinion, the longer we wait, the easier it is for him to start to think about moving.
Do you folks think he will 1. reach a one year agreement before the arbitration hearing
2. Go to arbitration
3. Sign an extension
As Always, Thanks
Dennis and Valerie said...
What was troublesome about Storen was him nibbling at corners when he needed to blow it by those guys that inning. He wasn't getting calls but he kept nibbling instead of trusting his stuff. That was so irritating about "THE INNING OF DOOM"
January 18, 2013 10:26 PM
_________________________________
That's my point. Its not working and he's not getting the calls nibbling so get aggressive and get some plate.
Molina couldn't beat him only tie the game if he hit a HR.
Teddy Rochlis said...
Whats done is done, now looking back at it i thought at the time that they were strikes and Suzuki was pushign them down, any merit to this idea anyone else think the same? Look at the replay again (although i know it might be painful) and tell me if you think im right and Suzuki was pushign the balls out of the strike zone.
January 18, 2013 10:22 PM
______________________________
Bob Brenly the former catcher and manager who was calling the game for FOX said what you said as it was unfolding but Pitch FX still said those pitches were low.
sjm308 said...
Do you folks think he will 1. reach a one year agreement before the arbitration hearing
2. Go to arbitration
3. Sign an extension
Absolutely!
:-)
Are we still beating the game five dead horse? This arbitration thing is interesting. Clip is a reliever and got four. JZim is a stud. Pay him. You see STL, our absolute favorite team in the whole work is trying to lowball Freese. Anyone out there recall the 2011 post season? Just interesting to see what different players get.
JZim is a stud. Pay him.
You have to figure it might be a negotiating ploy baseballswami. They sign all the others but not JZimmnn? He's no Lannan. They don't want to go to arbitration with him. What they want is to sign him to a long extension. Maybe they feel they need to strike while the iron is hot before he has a season like Gio?
Yes Feel, I'm in lockstep with Gonat, Ghost (and a growing list of other regulars here) about the tone of your comments. I suppose it's possible that this blog is populated by a bunch of thin skinned wimps, but you might consider the other possibility. But hey, keep making enemies if you like. It's a free country.
On the topic that Gonat raised, I found Drew's comments surprising at the time but considering what had just happened to him I'm not going to come down too hard on him for what he said, and I doubt the comments had much to do with the decision to sign Soriano. It was about his performance and his youth. Rizzo decided that for this World Series of bust season he wanted someone more reliable to finish the games.
Glad to hear that Clipp and Storen took the news well. They will get plenty of work this year, and are making a lot of money. Hopefully they'll learn a lot too and be even better closers (probably for different teams) in the future.
You are right peric. They need to sign him for 5 years now,because soon he will drop that 20 win, sub 3 ERA and boost his value. Big time.
No doubt the Nats would like to lock up JZnn for 5 years, but I'll bet he signs for 3 years max. He's only going to get better, and his long term earnings will increase after each great year.
The small difference between the two numbers does suggest that they are working on a longer term package and can easily come to agreement on this year's salary before going to hearing if they can't agree on the long term deal.
5 year 60 million is fair
Alex Howard said...
5 year 60 million is fair
January 19, 2013 6:38 AM
_______________________________
Seems fair to me!
in comparison to GG, it is a bit high but I can live with that. I have always been a fan of team friendly contracts, at least players' first time for extensions. And let's be honest, even team friendly contracts are more than enough for good players like JZ. however, I can understand the sentiment of being paid what you are worth. In either case, I am in a favor of extension right now. There is no better time.
I am a bit confused about the Storen quote. I thought he said that waaaay before we signed Soriano. Pretty sure it was right after the game. Storen will be fine Gonat but you have every reason to have concerns.
Peric has been nailing stuff on here lately and I think it was the last post where he was comparing LannEn to JZ (not really comparing because there is very little to compare). I think the extension makes sense to both. Zimmnn would still be just 32 and as Haren has shown, you can still get huge paydays at that age. It also gives the team another huge piece locked up. So to answer my previous question, I chose door number 3 and Scooter, you can't open all 3 doors (ha,ha).
The Astros have $11,975,000 in guaranteed contracts for 2013
Gonna be a rough year for Bo Porter even with the Arm.
Two thoughts, I think JZimm is more like Strasburg than Gio. He has ice in his veins and is willing to take a chance on a bad year/injury to rake in the extra cash. I seem to remember the Nats being a "File and Trial" team. Maybe that was the old Nats when they had lots of average talent guys and did not want to overpay them during Arb years but even last year they went to Arb with Burnett (I think)? when he filed.
Hope they work out a deal as I see the Nats rotation looking like Giants with many top SP and if one falters another steps up.
A little context on "file and trial" or "file to go." Nats take a hard line, but not as hard as Atlanta. Basically, a case-by-case decision.
arbitration
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/arbitration-figure-exchange-date-is-tomorrow.html
Earl Weaver passed away last night. I know we all hate the Orioles, but today is their FanFest. Very sad.
Where did you hear that? I can't find it when I google it.
Roch Kubatko @masnRoch
Terribly sad news to report: Hall of Fame manager Earl Weaver passed away last night. #orioles
found it. never mind.
very sad loss for baseball. My first attempt at analyzing baseball stats began with Earl Weaver's famous quote about pitching in my presentation. I have seen his confrontational video with one of the umpires many times on YT. Still makes me laugh. May he rest in peace!
NL, only reason I asked because lately I have come across few hoaxes about famous people.
FS, no problem. Strange stuff. But Earl Weaver was legit, no question.
Speaking only for myself, I don't tend to have enemies generally, and I consider Nats fans to be allies. We're all in this together, right? Plus, it's just baseball. Anyhoo, that's my two cents. Now it's back to dealing with critically ill family members for me. Peace out.
But hey, keep making enemies if you like. It's a free country.
Section 222 said...
Yes Feel, I'm in lockstep with Gonat, Ghost (and a growing list of other regulars here) about the tone of your comments. I suppose it's possible that this blog is populated by a bunch of thin skinned wimps, but you might consider the other possibility. But hey, keep making enemies if you like. It's a free country.
The tone of my comments?!?! Following standard internet protocol for a multi-party discussion, I quote a section of text for context and append my opinion to it. Frequently my opinion tends to differ from the opinions of others, but as you say it's a free country and I should be entitled to air those opinions.
This is standard internet practice, guys. It's been in place for over 20 years. Is this not an internet forum? Should not standard internet practice apply here?
It would seem that the thing that makes enemies around here is an opinion that differs from that of the anointed few. You know who you are. Tone of comments has nothing to do with it.
Let's all take a step back, take a breath and back off from the cliff. Pitcher's and catchers report soon, we all love the game and the Nats. Opinions cheerfully accepted, insults not so much. Nothing a little live baseball won't cure. Go Nats!!!!!!!
This is a situation when the cold, hard business reality of baseball is in the player's favor. JZim is worth every penny of $5m in arbitration. Frankly, they should sign him to a 4-5 year deal at least on the level of Gio. JZim is a better pitcher than Gio.
2 cents: tone has EVERYTHING to do with it. We all disagree... only a select few take offense, so phooey to your "standard practice"...just speak as you would like to be spoken to, and let the occasional sharp comment roll off your back. It's taken me this long to learn not to respond, AT ALL, to rude or obnoxious comments, whether direct at myself, or a fellow poster, but if nobody responded, directly to insulting commentary (and this includes snide, if chummy, asides about feeding trolls, and such), then the flare-up would be fewer, and farther between. We can all do better.... (Soapbox safely retuned to under bed...)
PLAY BALL!!!
I'm with the opinion of NL on this one, we are all allies here rooting for the same team, while we might have differing opinions on the issues on what the team should do moving forward, just keep in mind that all of us are fans and there is very little we can do except post our opinions and of course come out and show our support to the team. To become argumentative and spiteful toward other posters about their opinions is just wrong. The that you are even on this blog shows your loyalty to the nats, there is a reason its called a PERSONAL OPINION just remember to take everything with a grain of salt.
Amen baseballswammi...
My two cents is that Znn will eventually sign to avoid arbitration ...not so confident it will be for anything more than this year...
I think he is in line for a monster year and his agent may advise him to sign for just this season ....
I Also think Jordan might go with the one year. We can see that he is one mentally tough dude and he may want to take the chance for a monster year and a big deal then.
"Lighten up, jerk."
Wow! Is someone here sinking to WashPo Nats Journal level or what?
Well I am glad that everyone but JZ signed. Don't like ARB hearings - they cause hurt feelings. Not ones that we would see right away, but at the time of free agency. Want JZ and all of our guys to have good experiences and not come out of any meeting with Mgmt with a sour taste in their mouths. My hope is they work out AT LEAST a 1 year deal
Sad day for all baseball fans with the loss of Earl. I am okay with O's fans, just don't have any particular love for Angelos. He has run that franchise into the ground.
I always put two M's in swami...
I guess I could refer to you simply as 'BS'....
But THAT would be a slap in the face to all the talk of comrades in arms talk ...
Though I never adopted the Orioles as "my team," I enjoyed and respected Earl Weaver. R.I.P. Skipper.
you know I have always wondered why you chose the handle you chose, baseballswami. Just curious if you want to share.
Well said UnkyD.
Several people have suggested that JZnn will be just 32 when he hits free agency if he signs a five year deal now. It's my view that he has a better chance of getting a really huge contract if he does it after his age 29 season, so while he might do two or three years now, he won't go longer than that.
Greinke scored his deal with L.A. after his age 28 season. On the other hand, Halladay got a monster deal from Philly after age 32 Cliff Lee, after his age 31 season, CJ Wilson had finished his age 30 season. So what the chances are of getting a huge deal if you give up your first few years of free agency? I'll bet his agents have done that analysis.
rest well Earl. And try not to get in a dustup with God.
rest well Earl. And try not to get in a dustup with God.
I think its best to lock this power arm right hander up while they can. He projects imo to be a 15-20 game winner each season, maybe more with the team that is being put together behind him.
RIP Earl - what a great character
I don't know the particulars of Davey's safari but I know he is somewhere telling great stories about his manager.
Bet Weaver laughed the first time he heard WAR or sabermetrics. RIP Earl.
Gonna be a rough year for Bo Porter even with the Arm.
You do realize theAarm takes away JMax's starting job and still won't hit any better.
This is standard internet practice, guys. It's been in place for over 20 years. Is this not an internet forum? Should not standard internet practice apply here?
Well, close but no cigar lezzz seee ... hmmm I'd say its almost 30+ years now. And yes you are absolutely correct on that one FeelWood. In point-of-fact most of the people here would not have been able to handle the original USENET news posting system. They did not suffer fools or charlatans.
All is good in our Bullpen.
RSorio becomes our Zen Master of all pitching things at the back end of a ball game. Stor accepts his role as an acolyte, Clip continues to pass on deciphered messages from the batter to the pen, and Cat accededs to Clip's designation, developing a greater understanding of being The Dude.
Thanks for the news about the Earl of Baltimore. Man sure knew a lot of baseball.
Feel and peric on the same side (kind of)? Oh my! What's the temperature in Hell?
Feel and peric on the same side (kind of)? Oh my! What's the temperature in Hell?
Pretty much the same temperature it was 30+ ago in newsgroup alt.flame.
Bet Weaver laughed the first time he heard WAR or sabermetrics.
According to Davey he heard about it first from him when he was still a player. Weaver wouldn't consider it ... but he should have figured there could be something to it if he remembered how consistently Johnson beat him at golf. Or at least so Davey might say.
Nice write-up by Sickels on Cole & Treinen:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/1/18/3890922/nationals-athletics-mariners-morse-cole-blake-treinen-trade-prospects
Not that I am an Astro fan at all but who is "the Arm"?
the Arm is Rick Ankiel, who signed a minor-league deal with the Stros.
thank you
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