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USA Today Sports Images Danny Espinosa played the second half of last season with left shoulder pain. |
Espinosa, who played through pain in his non-throwing shoulder during September and during the playoffs in October, didn't learn of the tear until two weeks after season's end, after an enhanced MRI performed by Southern California orthopedist Lewis Yocum revealed it.
Surgery would completely repair the tear but would sideline Espinosa for at least the season's first two months, so the consensus opinion was to build up the muscles around the cuff and attempt to play without causing any further damage.
"It's already torn," Espinosa said. "So as long as I just keep up with my maintenance on my other muscles around the shoulder, I should
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62 comments:
and you can bet Mr Rendon sees time at 2B while he is in the Minors.
Is it finally time to fire Dr W. This guy is the worst. His track record for getting these things right is like coin flip. We all have questioned this for years. When is enough enough?
OK, now this makes me wonder:
"I didn't want to pull myself out not knowing what was wrong. If I'd had known what was wrong, different story. If I knew it was torn, I probably would've taken myself out. At that point, I would've felt I was useless."
So, NOW he knows it's torn. And he's staying in. Hmmm.
MichelS is right again. This is the scenario in which Rendon finds himself arriving in DC several mos. ahead of schedule -- that is, if Espinosa can't make it through the season and needs surgery right now, pronto. It's not that Lombardozzi isn't an adequate temporary plug-in, it's that Johnson and Rizzo see Rendon as a better all-around player. Say, for example, Espinosa is shelved in June or July. Lombardozzi starts for a month or two while Rendon gets spot starts -- and then takes over around August 15-September 1 for the stretch drive. (Something like the Braves and Rangers did last year with Simmons and Profar.)
God only knows what they'll do next year.
Lombardozzi and Rendon both probably why he is playing with the tear and didn't opt for the surgery. The way these guys play the field ... all three of them ... its ripping them to shreds.
Lombo sits on the 2nd base depth chart well ahead of Rendon. Rendon is basically behind Zim.
Losing another power bat and gaining another gap power at best hitter isn't the best thing either. Span, Suzuki, and Lombo in the lineup would be too many.
Better to have a gap hitter than a K Machine.
This explains why he cant touch anything inside. He'll have the surgery by may.
SHould have had the surgery when he found the problem. still it is not too late if it means he will back sometime in june or july.
Is this a wise move? In any case, he shouldn't be run out there game after game when we have Lombardozzi, who would be a starter on another team. Also - is it wise for him to play in the WBC? I wish he would have just had it taken care of. Seems like when guys wait and hope it's just a waste of time and they end up in surgery anyway. Isn't that what ALR had? Michele - I tweeted you - different name -- sshhhhh.
Just back from Natsfest. I had my picture taken with Danny & Lombo -- funny, Danny didn't mention anything about his shoulder, but we did chat about the Intentonal Talk thing. That beard is a work of art!
SHould have had the surgery when he found the problem. still it is not too late if it means he will back sometime in june or july.
Whole season at least. Just like LaRoche who had the same injury in 2011.
Better to have a gap hitter than a K Machine.
Fielding also takes a major hit. Plus, no premier backup shortstop. Lombo doesn't do shortstop well.
That might be Rendon but Rivero might be the better fit. And Zach Walters but they'll keep him in AAA.
So far I have not heard one comment from or about JZim - I heard that he was there. I am guessing he let everyone else do the talking as usual.
JZimm was on the stage when Gio and Clipp hosted the panel discussion. He was as talkative as I've heard him. Talked about getting married on New Year's Eve, and about ice fishing in the cold north.
Gio was a great emcee, by the way--as you might imagine.
So far I have not heard one comment from or about JZim - I heard that he was there. I am guessing he let everyone else do the talking as usual.
I forgot where I saw it but JZimm expressed strong interest in a long-term deal but said he wanted to get the 1 year / arbitration deal done first.
We'll see what Rizzo manages to cook up. I expect a long-term deal.
Backup shortstop might be on his mind at this point ... they'll have to have someone geared up if both Desmond and Espinosa go down. Given how aggressive those two (and Zim) are in the field it seems like an extremely prudent thing to do.
(Apologies if this is posted twice. Something strange going on with Blogger.)
I caught this news about Danny on the Twitter while I was at NatsFest. (Great to see huge crowds, full of kids, by the way.)
I wondered all afternoon why the conveyors of the news seemed to sanguine about it. This seems like a rather big deal.
I agree: we'll see more Lombo and Rendon at 2B this year.
@acomack: Interesting note from Jayson Werth: his wrist isn't as strong as he'd like, but feels good. Said total recovery for wrist actually ~18 mo.s.
Make that FOUR singles hitters with some gap power potentially in the lineup: Werth, Span, Suzuki, Lombardozzi.
NO that is not good.
Even more from Pete Kerzel at MASN:
* Right fielder Jayson Werth says it'll be 18 months - or pretty much the entire 2013 season - before he is fully recovered from the broken left wrist he sustained last May.
"It's not as strong as I'd like it to be," Werth said. "At the end of the season last year, that was one of the things I was dealing with - I didn't have the strength. I'm told it will come back. It just takes time. The power numbers obviously weren't there last year. Hopefully, they'll be there this year. ... I feel confident I can play at a high level without the wrist at 100 percent."
If Espi can't go, then I would play Lombo at second base and keep Rendon in the minors until he's completely ready to come up. We can win with Lombo. Just hate to lose Espi.
I don't believe this. They tried to play Ryan with a torn stomach muscle, and ALR with a shoulder tear, and then they both had to have surgery, anyway. After surgery, they both came back good as new.
Danny is aggressive on defense. He is going to dive for the ball going to his left, or take a flying leap for a short pop-up to RF, and risk doing even more damage. I do not understand why the Nats are so protective of their pitchers, but take this kind of risk with their position players, time and again.
Rendon will get a long look at 2b in ST, and will see more time at 2b in Harrisburg than originally planned. Too bad they lost Kobernus to Boston - Detroit. Michele could very well be right about Rendon. Espinoza could be Wally Pipped if Anthony plays to his potential at Harrisburg and then is brought up early, as Harper was last year.
Here is a thoughtful retrospective on "The Man." For those of you who still think it is all about the money, read it:
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41045162/
Until I read that, I didn't know it was the Dodger fans at Ebbets Field who started chanting "here comes the man" as Stan walked to the plate. They chanted other things to other players, including their own, but Stan was always The Man in Brooklyn, and everywhere else.
Goodbye Stan.
Thanks for the JZim news. As for Danny - do you all think he should play in the WBC? Isn't that too much wear and tear? And as for Lombo - some of you seem to have been watching a different player than I was when Desi was out. I saw Lombo get into starter mode pretty darn quickly and he had excellent range. As for the arm - not necessary at second. At first, he hesitated on throws a bit, but is such a quick study he worked it out in record time. He was up to speed in a hurry. If he played every day I have no doubt he would carry the load. He was also starting to find some power and the contact he makes is very useful in the line up. We had way too many situations where someone was on base with no outs and never moved. I understand the Davey philosophy of power hitting, but we just have to have some situational hitting going on and an out that moves a runner is far better than a K. If ever there was a situation where we could let Espi get the surgery, this is it. We have crazy depth.
Mark had a 1 on 1 with Bryce. it's on CSN Washington right now
Just missed it - did he say anything good?
Swami, nope, cliche's, but still good to have Mark talking to the players. I am sure it will be posted on the site soon
The chances of Espi having a breakout season a la' Desi just took a nosedive. Another brilliant performance by the Nats medical staff. Why am I not surprised? Enhanced MRIs should be the norm, not the exception for these athletes. Shame on the Nats for being penny wise and pound foolish.
For the record, ALR had surgery for a torn labrum, which is different from, and more serious than, a torn rotator cuff. Still, I don't see Espi lasting a whole season before having surgery.
I hope he got a lot of material today. So, Stras, Zim and Davey not there. Didn't see Stammen on any of the online sources - I think he is honeymooning also. Any other notable absences?
I think Danny should not play in the WBC. If he's trying to play with the injury, he should save himself for the Nats. OTOH if he gets hurt in the WBC, then maybe he'll have the surgery now.
Section 222 said...
The chances of Espi having a breakout season a la' Desi just took a nosedive. Another brilliant performance by the Nats medical staff. Why am I not surprised? Enhanced MRIs should be the norm, not the exception for these athletes. Shame on the Nats for being penny wise and pound foolish.
For the record, ALR had surgery for a torn labrum, which is different from, and more serious than, a torn rotator cuff. Still, I don't see Espi lasting a whole season before having surgery.
January 26, 2013 6:26 PM
I agree and Danny may have screwed himself by not getting the surgery when he first discovered the tear. If he can't make it through the season then misses time next year, he may have cost himself his job.
This is not a good idea. Do they recall Laroche's first season here? Just get the surgery NOW.
I think Danny should not play in the WBC.
Very good point. WTF Danny?
I once tore my rotator cuff -- so the chiropractor said -- sleeping on my shoulder the wrong way, so it's a temperamental little fellow. Probably wasn't a huge tear but it hurt a lot, and took three-four months to heal. Anyway it seems to me, swinging my shoulder in the living room, that the RC is what enables the throwing motion, affecting the overhand motion more than a 3/4 or sidearm. When swinging the bat,from either side, the shoulder is pretty much held against the torso, not arcing forward or being raised much above the horizontal. If, as I understand, this is on Espinosa's non-throwing shoulder, he should be OK, provided all the other muscles are working properly. Of course, if he bruises it, going all out to his left, as someone described, and/or it starts barking, then there's a problem. The prospect of aggravating the injury worries me more than day-to-day wear and tear. (Pardon the expression.) There's a good chance he takes a spill, or a runner slams into that side, sometime in the first 2-3 mos. of the season and he's done for the year
Combine this with the rash of injuries to Zimmerman and last year to Desmond? Its not good news given that Espy is the backup shortstop and there really isn't a better backup in all of major league baseball.
Espy has to know this puts a bullseye on his back. Now, Davey and the coaching staff et al are going to be watching closely.
Then add in Werth's 18 months to go fractured wrist recovery?
More like the walking wounded at this point ... it just means some new prospects could get their chance. If I'm Davey I'm getting Tyler Moore warmed up to left-field in a hurry.
See, I think it's a good idea for Danny to play in the WBC. We will know right away if he can play at a high level, and make the decision about surgery. Spring training games aren't a good test, but the WBC can be real competitive. What you don't want is Danny playing the for a month or two, costing us games, and then going out--that is the worst of both worlds.
See, I think it's a good idea for Danny to play in the WBC. We will know right away if he can play at a high level, and make the decision about surgery.
That might be why they are doing it. The good news is Danny still has options so they can take their time rehabbing him. He won't be happy ...
Its sad the toll the unreal UZR these guys have has been taking.
I'm sorry...I know you all will bash me for questioning Mark's professional duties here. Let me say I have supported Mark in more ways than most here BUT..................
How on gods green earth do you not ask Rizzo and Davey about this.
Questions should be like....why was Danny playing when he clearly was hurt and by his own words hurting the team?
Why given the countless examples in Nats past and several just the past year or two would you not do a Full MRI to find what was found in October?
Why would you not find it fix it and get ready for 2013....hell you shut down Stras so it was clear you were not going for it anyway?
In your view is Danny being selfish by not getting it fixed back in October? Is he putting himself before team. Is he worried in your view about losing his job over the next few months if he had to sit the first month or two?
Come on Mark.....you will come up with much better questions than me but.......nothing in this story addresses the real issues here.
NatsLady said...
See, I think it's a good idea for Danny to play in the WBC. We will know right away if he can play at a high level, and make the decision about surgery. Spring training games aren't a good test, but the WBC can be real competitive. What you don't want is Danny playing the for a month or two, costing us games, and then going out--that is the worst of both worlds.
January 26, 2013 7:14 PM
Good point, NatsLady.
NatsFest was fun. In a warm building, even better. :-) Didn't know that Mark was there, me having a not-so-smart phone and all. Saw a couple of baseball buddies late in the day, at the Nats Jeopardy session. I also attended a couple of Q&A sessions (and, yes, we both "Druu'd" and "standing O'd" him). Among other things, I learned that Jayson Werth is a funny guy. (Cue the Good Fellas lines.) More later.
JayB, hopefully for you someone else will fulfill your desire to have your sense of victimization renewed by the hoped-for "bashing".
No writer will ask them that because it's entirely unproductive to get into a woulda coulda shoulda debate about past things that can't be changed..
Whereas asking them about how they would anticipate handling different contingencies in Danny's potential future conditions is reasonable to ask about, even if there's only so much Rizzo or Davey would be willing orae to say about it.
When would be the appropriate time to ask the team why it doesn't do enhanced MRIs every time a player has a joint injury? How many times does a player need to be misdiagnosed, hurting the player and the team.
With the Espy injury Rendon drawing closer to his MLB debut.
222 -- it really does make me wonder what goes on in MLB clubhouses as to how much players can get away with hiding the extent of injuries vs. how much management can or does try to force closer examination. And how much is a contract or union issue. Just think about how much teams get away with hiding "injured" players on the DL who are not performing (which isn't to say they aren't genuinely injured, just that the lines are so blurred they're almost impossible to follow consistently).
I'd love to see the medical diplomas of all these experts who are questioning the decisions made here and elsewhere. My guess is that the so-called experts here have never spent a night in a Holiday Inn Express in their lives.
I tore my rotator cuff in high school, and it didn't affect my swing at all. I couldn't throw the ball from 1B to the mound, but I could hit for some reason. Danny should be just fine, provided he can manage the pain. It really hurts every time you aggravate it. I hope he can keep it together this year.
Njack...your view is your view....I for one feel that this news is why I was so angry at the end of the year. Davey and Rizzo made major miss steps that lead to under performance in the Post Season. Thus a 98 win team fell flat...when it could and should have won it all.
As I recall the only one who hit in the playoffs at all was Desi. Were the rest of them experiencing sympathetic pains from Espi's injury? That's one magic rotator cuff.
JayB, you always seem to be angry, no matter what the team does. That's your right, but it doesn't strike me that anyone else is to blame for it. More like it's a choice.
JayB said...
I'm sorry...I know you all will bash me for questioning Mark's professional duties here. Let me say I have supported Mark in more ways than most here BUT..................
How on gods green earth do you not ask Rizzo and Davey about this.
Espinosa broke the news to us after we had already had our time with Rizzo. And Davey wasn't there today.
I'm certain we'll be asking both guys about Espinosa's shoulder plenty the next chance we get to speak to them.
That's my recollection as well.
Tony said...
As I recall the only one who hit in the playoffs at all was Desi.
Steady, I agree it makes you wonder. But I can't think of any reason (other than cost), that a player who is already having an MRI to diagnose an injury couldn't be given the enhanced MRI, which simply involves injecting a dye into the joint so the MRI will be more revealing and therefore more likely to result in the proper diagnosis.
Guys: its been diagnosed - he has a tear in one of the tendons in the shoulder - if he has rested and done the rehab work with the surrounding muscles there is a chance that things will be ok - I said chance - I obviously have not seen the mri - it is not his throwing arm so that is one good thing.
I am a bit miffed that our team Dr. did not catch this because its really not that hard to see a tear in one of the tendons. The fact that he is not in pain right now is a good thing and the fact that our season was over in Oct and he has been rehabbing for 3 months is also a good thing.
This is not like a muscle injury, in fact, the muscles supporting the joint will play a key part in keeping him on the field. Could he reinjure himself? absolutely. Its not a great situation but at least he knows what is going on now and if there is an issue, he will not try and hide it like he did this last time.
One last thing - JayB - am I to understand that the only reason we lost the playoffs to the Cardinals was Danny Espinosa?? As much of a fan as you are have to step back, take a deep breath and look at this game we love. One guy and one manager lost the playoffs?? Seriously?? Did Danny perform? No. Was it the reason we lost, NO? Get off your soap box and find something else to bitch about.
More Lombo and Rendon at 2B will be an improvement over the current Espinosa. He should be tested at Syracuse and not open at Nationals Park. I'm not the ace doctor the Nats have, but I know if he plays he will be lost for most of the season. So, why not just repair the injury now rather than hurt the team? I just don't trust Espinosa, the doctor, or the Nationals if he plays.
I admit to having never been inside a clubhouse or front office, but it strikes me that the club is responsible for the medical care of its players. Whenever there is an injury or possible injury, isn't the club dictating which tests are run, which surgeries are taken, when the surgeries are performed and overall being in charge of the rehab? Not faulting the Nats here because I have no idea what they did or didn't do, but if Espi learned it was torn a couple weeks after the season, and if surgery is the best option, then wouldn't the club have ordered it done? Who calls the shots here?
Rabbit - I agree with you on this. I am also not a doctor and I have to think that he was given options and what the chances are of re-injuring it. I just can't imagine getting through the entire season if it totally torn like one report said. If the tendon was partially torn then maybe the rehab worked but why wouldn't he get the operation and come back 100% and help us at the end of the year. Only good news is we do have depth with Lombo but we do not have depth at SS.
"More Lombo and Rendon at 2B will be an improvement over the current Espinosa. "
I would love to hear Davey on how he intends to handle that. He could platoon those two, since Lombo is a much better hitter from the left side than the right, and Rendon would be much better against lefties.
I am assuming that Danny has to sit, sooner or later. We all saw what he did in September at the plate after injuring that shoulder. The minute he aggravates that injury, he will have to sit.
I am sorry for Danny, but the games will go on. And Rizzo could still make a deal to plug that hole, if Rendon is not yet ready.
Man, last year it was Morse and Storen, the year before it was ALR and Ryan, and SS was already on rehab from TJ surgery. They were already thin at middle infield, and then they lose Kobernus to Rule 5. So, naturally, their first casualty is their 2nd baseman. Other teams also have injuries, but the Nats have them before they even get to the starting line.
(Slaps forehead)
Count me among the pessimists. I predict Espi will kill rallies right and left, until they finally pull the plug on him for the year in May.
I have yet to learn of a situation where a player played successfully through a shoulder injury like this one with "strengthening exercises." They always go under the knife sooner rather than later.
As for penny-wise, pound foolish on the MRI, as a native Minnesotan, nothing will top Kirby Puckett's career ending early from glaucoma for want of a routine $20 eye exam (in 1995 dollars).
Here come the injuries and ailments and spring training hasn't even started. Werth is shot with bad legs, a twice severely broken wrist and chronic back problems while The heathy Beast is now in Seattle and AJ Cole pitches in Hagerstown. Rizzo, that trade was dumb if you are going for broke this season. At least he kept Lombardozzi. Espinosa will be under the knife by May 1, just like Laroche two seasons ago. He thought he could play through the injury too.
Should of had it repaired the day after we lost to the Cards. He would be healthy now. Pretty much a no brainer
Bad judgment by Espi not to get his shoulder fixed in the off season. Also bad decision to play in the international baseball thing.
Range does not matter if you can't throw.
By ignoring this, he's setting himself up for trouble if he whiffs a ton in ST or early in the season.
Iowa: right with you, on the team being able and responsible for running every test under the sun, anytime somebody's hurting badly enough to affect their play. However, nobody can order anybody to be cut...that's up to the individual. I reckon the club could shut him down, until he can show he's completely healed, but not "order" any surgeries...
James: it's not his throwing shoulder, FWIW (not much).
Doc: "UnkyD", your rotator cuff is almost completely torn..."
Me: "Fix it... NOW"
Sorry, Danny... A little tear=rehab (like I'm doing now, BTW). "Almost completely torn"= get it fixed, ASAP. It's not rocket science. (And yes, Tony, I'm a world renowned expert...)
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