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It took a lot of roster turnover to transform the Nats into what they are today, a playoff team and division champion. Just look at the 2010 squad, nine different pitchers who made appearances with that team have yet to pitch again in the majors. (Luis Atilano, Scott Olsen, J.D. Martin, Tyler Walker, Jesse English, Matt Chico, Joe Bisenius, Garrett Mock, and Jason Bergmann)
The Nationals over the past few years have traded players away and let others go via free agency, some simply because it was time they switched to the American League. But looking at who has left and where they are now, the talent pool of ex-Nationals players really isn’t that bad.
Here is how I see a team of former Nationals players (still active in the majors) stacking up. The stats included are those from their 2012 seasons.
BATTERS
C – Derek Norris (.201 BA, 7 HR, 34 RBI)
1B – Adam Dunn (.204 BA, 41 HR, 96 RBI)
2B – Emilio Bonifacio (.258 BA, 30 R, 30 SB)
SS – Jerry Hairston (.273 BA, 4 HR, 26 RBI)
3B – Alfonso Soriano (.262 BA, 32 HR, 108 RBI)
LF – Josh Willingham (.260 BA, 35 HR, 110 RBI)
CF – Justin Maxwell (.229 BA, 18 HR, 53 RBI)
RF – Jonny Gomes (.262 BA, 18 HR, 47 RBI)
BN – Wil Nieves (32 G, .301 BA, 8 RBI)
BN – Marlon Byrd (47 G, .210 BA, 10 R)
BN – Laynce Nix (.256 BA, 3 HR, 16 RBI)
BN – Pete Orr (35 G, .315 BA, 7 RBI)
BN – Austin Kearns (.245 BA, 21 R, 16 RBI)
A lineup of former Nationals looks a lot better after 2012 than it did a year before. Adam Dunn had a huge comeback from his awful 2011 with 41 home runs and a league-best 105 walks. He made his second career All-Star appearance and would be the centerpiece of this hypothetical batting order. Dunn along with Soriano, Willingham, Maxwell, Gomes, and even Norris would pack a ton of power.
The ex-Nationals lineup overall would be quite lopsided. Their infield in general would be old and ineffective. Hairston and Orr would likely platoon at shortstop given their age. And Alfonso Soriano would have to move back to the infield given the outfield depth. Willingham, Maxwell, Gomes, and Byrd would combine to man the outfield.
The Nats would be okay at catcher with Norris and Nieves. Norris is a decent starter having blocked the plate for the division champion Oakland Athletics. The bench would also be serviceable with Nix and the fourth outfielder ready to go.
PITCHERS
SP – Tommy Milone (13-10, 3.74 ERA, 190.0 IP)
SP – Jason Marquis (8-11, 5.22 ERA, 127.2 IP)
SP – Livan Hernandez (4-1, 6.42 ERA, 67.1 IP)
SP – Brad Peacock (played in minors)
SP – Miguel Batista (1-3, 4.61 ERA, 52.2 IP)
The starting rotation of an ex-Nationals team would be its biggest weakness. The Nats themselves were poor in this department before getting Stephen Strasburg and Gio Gonzalez, so this could be expected. Milone turned into a quality starting pitcher after being traded to Oakland and led the A.L. West champions in wins and innings pitched. The rest of the rotation, with the exception of Peacock, saw their best years a long time ago. Peacock had promise when he was traded to the A’s, but never made it out of the Pacific Coast League in 2012. He had an ugly 6.01 ERA through 134 2/3 innings in the minors.
CL – Joel Hanrahan (2.72 ERA, 36 SV, 59.2 IP)
RP – Joel Peralta (3.63 ERA, 0.985 WHIP, 67.0 IP)
RP – Jon Rauch (3.59 ERA, 0.988 WHIP, 57.2 IP)
RP – Matt Capps (3.68 ERA, 1.091 WHIP, 14 SV)
RP – Doug Slaten (2.77 ERA, 13.0 IP)
RP – Todd Coffey (4.66 ERA, 19.1 IP)
RP – Chad Gaudin (4-2, 4.54 ERA, 69.1 IP)
The bullpen of the ex-Nationals would be quite decent. Hanrahan is probably the posterboy of former Nats players as even general manager Mike Rizzo has expressed regret for trading him. Peralta, Rauch, and Capps are quality relievers and the overall depth is good. Slaten would be the only left-hander which would pose a problem.
OVERALL
All in all, the group of former Nationals still active in the major isn’t that bad. Making the playoffs would be unlikely, but there is certainly more talent there than the current Miami Marlins.
78 comments:
I'd take the Marlins . . ..
Look at you Chase. Creative, Alfonso Soriano at 3B and Nyjer Morgan and Tony Plush on the bench.
I heard someone on the radio saying that the Upton signing by the Braves was bad news for the Nats. I don't feel that way. Do you? Is he an upgrade from Bourne? Maybe? Let's follow this post up with the worst possible Nats lineup made up of formers players. Starting pitcher - Daniel Cabrera? What say ye? Will Nook be on the team?
I was happy to see BJ end up on the Braves. I really think it's a huge, long term mistake for them. We'll see. Who will be their lead off?
Just saw highlights of Wizards and Blazers game. OMG! what is wrong with that team?
nice post chase. I think everyday lineup looks decent. Hammer, soriano, dunn at their peak are very good players I think. more than 100 HRs right there. not a whole lot of average but again serious OBP from those 3. i still like Dunn and Hammer.
I dunno--that ex-Nats roster brought back a lot of mixed feelings. It reminds me of the days when expectations were all about compromise and waiting for something good to happen in the future.
Dunn, for example. I loved him, but the defense on 1B was nothing to write home about. And has Soriano ever played 3B? Hasn't he been in the outfield since Bowden made him switch in 2006? And seeing the likes of Slayton and Gaudin in the bullpen sorta gives me the heebie-jeebies.
I'm glad we've got the team we have now, I must say.
BJ Upton to the Braves...probably makes the Braves better, but Bourn was not chopped liver in the CF position.
Bourn's no Justin Maxwell, let's put it that way.
BJ to the Braves does not scare me. Greinke or Hamilton to the Brave would. I doubt that will happen.
Trying to catch up--DeRosa was on Baseball Tonight, someone said? How was he as a commentator? Do you think he is retiring?
MicheleS, thanks for the link to the Rizzo article.
No team needs to add a .246 hitter to their batting order. For Upton to bring value to the Braves lineup he needs to learn how to find the ball with the bat. Nor that there's that much difference between him and Bourn in that regard: the difference in BA is likely the result of a dozen speed hits over the course of the season.
http://bit.ly/Rl0pf4 some bryce kool-aid.
Does anybody here give 75M to Bourn? I just don't see how he's worth that. What makes him a good player now is his speed but he's 30 but in about 3 years its all over. I don't think Bourn will get Upton money. It doesnt make sense. I think Boras will wait and wait and in the end at best he gets a 4 year deal for less money than Upton
"Trying to catch up--DeRosa was on Baseball Tonight, someone said? How was he as a commentator? Do you think he is retiring?"
Pretty good, I thought. He was asked about the NL East, and had a big smile on his face when he said "The Nats aren't going anywhere", meaning, I think, that the Nats are going to be a force for years to come.
I like him a lot better in the studio than on the Nats' bench, unless he comes back as a coach.
Laddie Blah Blah said...
"Trying to catch up--DeRosa was on Baseball Tonight, someone said? How was he as a commentator? Do you think he is retiring?"
Pretty good, I thought. He was asked about the NL East, and had a big smile on his face when he said "The Nats aren't going anywhere", meaning, I think, that the Nats are going to be a force for years to come.
I like him a lot better in the studio than on the Nats' bench, unless he comes back as a coach.
November 29, 2012 9:28 AM
He didn't sound as "Jersey" as he does in person which made him very good in his debut on MLB Network. I wondered if they "auto-tuned" his voice.
Jerry Hairston did MLB Network last year and he was even better than DeRosa.
Other note on DeRosa was he should fire his tailor. That suit needed to be taken in and the sleeves were too long. I figured he just bought it off the rack!
Would love if the Nats could find a spot for DeRosa as a Coach somewhere or Front Office position.
USA Today has a feature article on Boras and his close relationship to the Nats and Tigers.
They assume Bourn will be a Nat and Rafael Soriano a Tiger since they're both Boras clients.
He's taking 10 assistants and tons of data to the winter meetings in support of his clients.
Great quote from Rizzo: "You fish where the fish are."
Wow - I was just looking at Alfonso Soriano stats, he can be had cheap. Maybe if ALR leaves you put Morse at 1B, sign Alfonso Soriano out him in LF and have Tyler Moore there ready to push him. On the cheap too...
NatsLady said...
MicheleS, thanks for the link to the Rizzo article.
November 29, 2012 9:02 AM
That Werth signing to me was more Boras presenting Jayson more as what the Nats needed and Ted Lerner as a visionary.
From what I understand, Mike Rizzo was also in favor of it but the negotiation was Boras pushing Mr. Lerner. On the surface, it was a ridiculous contract with the last 3 years looking like a $45 million overpay, but Jayson is the clear leader and also showed in 2012 that he's very good baseball player.
I liked the contract then, I probably won't like it in 3 years but as they say, "money already spent".
Rizzo will be on 106.7 radio at 11:45 by the way. Have to love his "You fish where the fish are".
On BJ Upton, all the talk 2 years ago about him coming to DC via trade was just talk.
I think Rizzo feels if there is the smallest doubt about being a good teammate, its not going to work.
Just keep replaying that video of BJ and Longoria going at it in the dugout and BJ jogging after balls that got by him or stupid baserunning mistakes, etc.
I was hoping BJ was going to go to Philly because he would have been the new target of their anger as soon as he screwed up or hit a slump. The Braves are a better fit for him with the fanbase but we will see how he does there. Time will tell.
Here is the link to the Boras Article in USA Today. I do wish he shut up at times, but good stuff overall.
Fun stuff, Zuck. Thanks.
Bonafacio, Hairston -- need a 3 hole hitter -- Dunn, Willingham, Soriano, etc. scores some runs! But, man, the defense would be terrible!
Not something I would have thought of so thanks for that Chase. It really is a horrible team on defense and it shows what we have put up with for years. Pitching might be worse than the D although the bullpen is ok.
I think the .246 ave is not horrible when you look at his defense but the huge strikeout rate bothers me. I am just happy he is not a National and hope we get the LaRoche thing done soon.
The more I think about Soriano, the more it could work as long as its just a year or two at the most. My first choice, if we have to make a move would be Swisher for two years but Soriano still has value and it would allow us to ease Moore into a role he has just started to work on.
Lots of nostalgia in that list. Of those memorable names, the only one that would add value to the 2013 club would be Millone as a 5th starter. Otherwise, the ghost of Christmas. present beats. the ghost of Christmas past.
Don, I believe Chase Hughes wrote this article not "Zuck". Not even sure who "Zuck" is.
Come on Ghost - don't be such a stickler and obviously Zuck is Mark Zuckerman. Don does not need my support but I hate when guys get so exacting on what is a friendly baseball blog.
MicheleS said... Here is the link to the Boras Article in USA Today. I do wish he shut up at times, but good stuff overall.
November 29, 2012 10:11 AM
Scott Boras is a very smart man and an excellent negotiator and his ego and things he says sometimes like "Rizzo and I put this team together" and such just shouldn't be said but that's Scott being Scott.
Nightengale seems sure that Bourn is coming to DC. I would say lets wait and see what happens with Adam LaRoche but you never know if the Nats don't want to miss out on Bourn.
Again, the age to speed ratio in recent history isn't in Bourn's favor on a long-term curve. Exceptions are Lou Brock and Rickey Henderson but look at Bourn last year his steals dropped from 62 to 41 while the caught stealings were almost the same. You have to expect on that curve that the speed is already declining but certainly not a guarantee. Steals dropped by almost 33% and the caught steal rate more importantly went up from 19% to 24%. He went from taking himself off of the base paths from 1 out of 5 times to 1 out of 4 times. When you start looking at those numbers and remove 13 times he was on base, that OBP looks far worse.
sjm308 said...
Come on Ghost - don't be such a stickler and obviously Zuck is Mark Zuckerman. Don does not need my support but I hate when guys get so exacting on what is a friendly baseball blog.
November 29, 2012 10:41 AM
I find the way Don addresses Mark as "ZUCK" is blatant disrespect and I've said it before. Maybe that is Mark's nickname and I am over reacting.
Ghost, yes, you are overreacting.
Sec222, that was a quick reply!
Aaron Gleeman reporting "not so fast" on the Wilton Lopez trade to the Phillies.
Ghost -- Zuck off!
Kidding!
The guy's name is Zuckerman, if his name were Sullivan, I'd call him Sully, O'Brien would get O.B., Fitzpatrick would be Fitz. I grew up with a Steve Sugarman and we called him "Shoog" like Suge Knight but my guy was not so felonious. I should have read the by line to see it was Chase writing the story, sorry. But me calling Mark Zuckerman Zuck is no blantant disrespect at all, it is endearment, if anything.
Don, that's what I think of "Zuck off" or "Zuck you". I like MZ Hammer or the Z-Man3.
Rizzo coming on. If you are out of town, here's the link:
http://betaplayer.radio.com/player/1067-the-fan/
I think it's up to Mark to decide whether or not to be offended by "Zuck."
Now, boys. Take a nice, deep breath and think of green fields and baseball. Um, winning baseball. On a "sounds like" note, I bring you this post by our humble host, from deep within the archives of NI. :-)
Mark Zuckerman said...
Natslifer said...
Mark - Since you appear to be reading I had a random question for you. When you do your "Nats Insider" appearances on 980, Andy Polley pronounces your last name "Zook..." (like "took") but when I tell other fans about this blog I always use "Zuck..." (like "truck") - I want to get it right - which one's correct???
They (usually) get it right on the air. Zuck rhymes with Book or Took, not Duck or Luck or ... well, you can probably figure out the other one.
April 16, 2012 11:26 AM
natsfan1a, exactly! Thanks for digging that up!
You're welcome, Ghost.
"Jerry Hairston did MLB Network last year and he was even better than DeRosa."
Agreed. Hairston had more presence than DeRosa and was better-spoken. My main problem with him then was his incessant cheer-leading for his new team (the Dodgers).
If anything, De Rosa understated his opinion of the Nats and their chances, but his big grin kind of gave away how he really sees the future. That may have been his first appearance (it was the first time I saw him there), so he probably has room for improvement.
Re: Spring Training & today's WaPost article.
Just finished reading "Under the March Sun" about Spring Training. Interesting, but nothing about the game in it--it's all about the business of cities and stadiums, politics and money. The Post article touches on that stuff re Fort Myers, but the fight for teams and stadiums among Florida cities, Arizona and even Las Vegas (they have tons of money, but BB doesn't like the gambling connection) is a 9-figure war. Viera is not going to give up the Nats without a struggle.
As an old Red Sox guy I have been to both Sox stadiums in Fort Myers. One thing I know is how hard it is to get tickets. (Had to take standing room a couple of times.) So I was not surprised to read that ST games in Fenway South will sell out they day they go on sale. What I didn't know was that the Twins also sell out every game, though not quite as fast.
So what does that mean for us? It means that if we play the Sox and Twins 3-4 times each, those games in our park will also sell out quickly. And forget about seeing the Nats play in Fenway South or Lee County stadium unless you get in there on day 1. Now we see that Fort Myers, having spent a ton on Sox & Twins facilities, has little left to upgrade City of Palms Park.
I was all for the move, but now am not so sure. Yeah, Viera isn't near anything, but how bad is that, really? The Tigers, Astros & Braves are not that far away, and Viera is wide open and very pleasant. We'll see. This story has a long way to run.
PS: Interesting factoids: Did you know the Yankees once did ST in Bermuda? Or that the Cubs were on Catalina Island off SoCal for decades? The Wrigley family owned the whole dang island.
Hammer was a Suge Knight guy for a while. They both went wicked bankrupt. Go figure.
Start up the rumor mill. Rizzo had no hestiation in tipping his hand on that interview. Centerfielder and leadoff man and move Harper to the corner outfield spot.
Now Rizzo tipped his hand last year when describing a pitcher (Buehrle) and came up short. This year he described Michael Bourn.
Now of course Ladson thought Rizzo was describing another pitcher last year so maybe Ladson will think Angel Pagan is the target.
I also read Under the March Sun and found it fascinating. Lots of history.
William Ladson@washingnats
Great news, everybody: F.P. Santangelo will be back as a TV analyst for the #Nats. His option was picked up for the 2013 season. #MASN #MLB
I also liked Rizzo's response on going "all in" this year and clearly said that's never the case.
William Ladson@washingnats
Great news, everybody: Bob Carpenter was offered a contract to return as the play-by-play voice of the #Nats
Thanks much for the broadcaster updates, Michele. Hope that they'll both be back.
I agree Ladson that it's good news that both Carp and FP are back next year.
Say, incidentally, are the colors correct in the picture of Dunn up at the top of this post? Is there really a White Sox uniform that has red letters and a red helmet? Or is this poetic Photoshop license to make a point?
Dave, yes. The White Sox have an alternate red uni with red pinstripes. It's AWFUL, truly awful.
Dave, the White Sox also wear a green alternate for Earth Day.
Dave, that may be a throwback uni from the early 1970s.
Apparently the red uni's are a retro from the 1970s.
White Sox red
http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/white-sox-red-retro-uniforms-picture/112995
Still not as bad at the Steelers bumblebee uniforms which they will wear twice this season.
bumblebees
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=steelers+bumble+bee+jersey&view=detail&id=EB19B3A90211CA0ABEDB658093316AB9F1658B69&first=1
MicheleS, I really like my homer FP. It took Carp a while but they have great chemistry now and while Bob makes many mistakes, he is better than many alternatives. Is Kristina coming back?
Was there ever a doubt they would bring FP back. He's gold!!
Ghost, haven't seen anything about Kristina.
Carp and FP have a really good chemistry, it did take time, but those things do. The fact that FP busts on Carp about Jammage is the best. And I really like that they both interact with fans during the game (FP is on twitter all the time) and we all secretly hope they are reading this blog.
NatsLady said...
Dave, yes. The White Sox have an alternate red uni with red pinstripes. It's AWFUL, truly awful.
Awful is a relative term. Remember, this is the team that once sent its players out on the field wearing short trousers and knee socks.
I think red pinstripes are fine so long as it ain't the Phillies. Anything that encroaches on Phillies' turf is OK w/ me.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
Now Rizzo tipped his hand last year when describing a pitcher (Buehrle) and came up short.
Did he? He ended up with Gio. Clearly Buehrle was part of Rizzo's plan last winter, but he wasn't the only part of that plan or even necessarily the first choice. Rizzo's public pursuit of Buehrle at the winter meetings could have been as much about getting Billy Beane to move on the Gio trade as it was about getting Buehrle. We will never know for sure. Rizzo himself may not even have known for sure how it would all play out, he was just sure that however it did he would end up happy with the outcome.
This year he described Michael Bourn.
Similarly, don't be surprised this year if he goes after Bourn publicly and ends up making a trade for someone instead who is totally off the radar.
Feel Wood wrote:
Awful is a relative term. Remember, this is the team that once sent its players out on the field wearing short trousers and knee socks.
Wow. I forgot all about that. Actually, I drove it out of my memory like I would a nightmare.
Was that the age of Disco Demolition Night?
Look if we don't get Adam, I am going to be upset, but If they can get a stop gap in the OF to get us to Goodwin (if he can take over CF in a year or two), I am okay. I won't be happy seeing ALR in a different uni, but I am sure I will get over it.
Wouldn't that be something if the White Sox brought back those shorts on a throwback night? I heard Michael Jordan won't be allowed to play golf at a Miami country club because he wouldn't wear Bermuda shorts. Good for him, most men look really bad in shorts...um, in my opinion.
Michael Jordan ruffles feathers at country club for not wearing Bermuda shorts
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/jordan_shorts_club_RTYI88LuFqHz3BsXZRFJrO
Dave..
Disco Demolition Night brought to you by Veeck and Local DJ Steve Dahl. It was epic to watch it on TV. My dad would never take us to Old Comisky because of that and the fact that he hated the White Sox. Only got to visit Old Comisky one time as a kid. Loved the old shower sprayers they had in the OF. That place had no air flow so it was an easy way to cool off.
Feel Wood, certainly a theory but it's also a good way to drive up the price on the competition too.
It also could have been a signal to ALRs people at SFX as it's an either/or scenario.
Davey and Rizzo will see ALR at Daveys golf tourney this weekend. Awkward.
Ghost.. I am hoping there will be some Negotiating going on and that Monday Rizzo has Adam locked up before the Winter Meetings start.
I also should have said ALR is "scheduled to appear". His agents may not want him to show up but technically this isn't a team event.
Can't wait to see photos of Bryce and Bryan Harper on the golf course. Bryan dressed up last year for a golf event in knickers and high socks and he's so tall that it just looked funny. Picture Payne Stewart but 6 inches taller and super young with that jet black hair.
Now, with link.
natsfan1a said...
I don't know. I like those summer UPS unis, depending who's driving. What can Brown do for you? (Oh no, I didn't.) :-)
NatsLady said...
Good for him, most men look really bad in shorts...um, in my opinion.
http://www.daveyjohnsongolf.com/Davey_Johnson/Davey_Johnson_Celebrity_Invitational.html
Here's the link to see who is scheduled to appear.
Here is info on the Golf Tournament. You can donate, also.
Davey_Johnson_Celebrity_Invitational
http://www.daveyjohnsongolf.com/Davey_Johnson/Davey_Johnson_Celebrity_Invitational.html
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/nationals-notes-laroche-bourn-harper.html
It didn't take long for the same conclusions made on Rizzo's radio interview.
Like Feel Wood said, could be a diversion. Sounds like its Bourn with Morse at 1st or LaRoche at 1st and Morse in LF.
If they get Bourn, hope its not more than 5 years $90 million.
JIM BOWDEN
@JimBowdenESPNxm With negotiations not making much progress with Adam LaRoche the Nationals are seriously considering changing course & chasing Michael Bourn
Bowden tweetered this 30 minutes ago. That's my take on it too.
The Nats outfield defense with Werth LF, Bourn CF and Harp RF would be the best in the Majors. You lose some with Morse at 1st. Net/net, I think defense gains much. The dynamics change in the offense. Less power, more speed. Where do you bat Werth? 2nd, 5th, 6th, 7th?
Here is the link for Rizzo on the radio, segment 8.
Mike RIzzo
http://washington.cbslocal.com/audio/1608-holden-kushner-and-danny-rouhier/
If the Nats get Bourne, he and Espi would be fighting for the team lead in strikeouts.
Ghost, I'd sign ALR for three years before I'd sign Bourn for five years.
Maybe it's not Bourn at all. Maybe there's a trade in the works.
I really like Michael Morse,thought he did a great job at first in 2011, but you can't really compare his glove at 1B, and feel for the position, to be a minor drop off in total team defense if we lose ALR. I honestly think it, along with the loss of Adam's power numbers, would cost the team first place in the standings.
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