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US Presswire photo Space Coast Stadium could host its final Nats spring training in 2013. |
Washington will open the Grapefruit League on Feb. 23 in Port St. Lucie, the first of six spring encounters with the Mets (who train about an hour south of Viera). The Nationals also face the Astros (who train 50 minutes west in Kissimmee) six times. They'll face the Braves (who are an hour west in Lake Buena Vista), Cardinals and Marlins (who train nearly two hours to the south in Jupiter) five times a piece, while facing the Tigers (who are nearly two hours away in Lakeland) four times.
The Nationals also must make a six-hour round trip to Clearwater on March 6 for a single exhibition game against the Phillies.
All told, the Nationals will spend more time on Florida's highways than any other club in the Grapefruit League, the primary reason ownership hopes to relocate to the Gulf Coast in 2014.
The Nationals have been in negotiations with government officials from Fort Myers, seeking funding to renovate the City of Palms complex that was vacated by the Red Sox last year. If they're able to strike a deal and move in 2014, the Nationals would train in a town that also hosts the Red Sox and Twins and is also located a short drive from three other camps on the west coast: the Rays, Orioles and Pirates.
Here is the full exhibition schedule for this spring. Reporting dates for pitchers and catchers and then position players has not been finalized yet, but they will come earlier than usual because the World Baseball Classic will be held in March...
NATIONALS 2013 GRAPEFRUIT LEAGUE SCHEDULE
Game times TBA
Feb. 23 at Mets in Port St. Lucie
Feb. 24 vs Marlins in Viera
Feb. 25 at Mets in Port St. Lucie
Feb. 26 at Braves in Lake Buena Vista
Feb. 27 vs Marlins in Viera
Feb. 28 vs Mets in Viera
Mar. 1 at Braves in Lake Buena Vista
Mar. 2 at Cardinals in Jupiter
Mar. 3 vs Cardinals in Viera
Mar. 4 OFF
Mar. 5 vs Astros in Viera
Mar. 6 at Phillies in Clearwater
Mar. 7 at Astros in Kissimmee
Mar. 8 vs Cardinals in Viera
Mar. 9 vs Marlins (ss) in Viera
Mar. 10 at Tigers in Lakeland
Mar. 11 vs Braves in Viera
Mar. 12 OFF
Mar. 13 (ss) vs Mets in Viera, (ss) at Astros in Kissimmee
Mar. 14 vs Astros in Viera
Mar. 15 at Cardinals in Jupiter
Mar. 16 vs Astros in Viera
Mar. 17 at Tigers in Lakeland
Mar. 18 vs Tigers in Viera
Mar. 19 OFF
Mar. 20 at Marlins in Jupiter
Mar. 21 at Braves in Lake Buena Vista
Mar. 22 vs Tigers in Viera
Mar. 23 at Mets in Port St. Lucie
Mar. 24 vs Braves in Viera
Mar. 25 at Astros in Kissimmee
Mar. 26 at Marlins in Jupiter
Mar. 27 at Cardinals in Jupiter
Mar. 28 vs Mets in Viera
186 comments:
YEA! Start planning your trips to Florida!
Interesting post on how Cy Young winners fare the year after they win.
Have we seen the best of David Price?
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=38014
And.... the Blue Jays are at it again...
The Blue Jays have agreed to sign Melky Cabrera to a two-year, $16MM contract, Enrique Rojas of ESPNdeportes.com reports.
I've been to that Fort Myers staduim, it's a dump. Worse place of the 10 games I saw at different locations.
Wow, the Blue Jays rob a bank, or something? They have taken on some serious salaries.
NatsLady said...
And.... the Blue Jays are at it again...
The Blue Jays have agreed to sign Melky Cabrera to a two-year, $16MM contract, Enrique Rojas of ESPNdeportes.com reports.
November 16, 2012 1:53 PM
What Melky Cabrera emerges? The one the Yankees had or a better version?
Toronto appears to be in a hurry as was Melky. He will have 18 meetings against one of his old teams.
I think they have always had money but most of it tied to rios, wells, etc which they moved and then AA built the farm system and now signing FAs and taking on some more salaries to compete. I think besides Reyes contract which has five years left I believe, he does not need to worry about anything else. thos are all good pick ups baseball-wise. they still need a Sp.
JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm
Melky Cabrera gets 2yrs $16m from Toronto. Had he not tested postive for PED's he would have gotten 4 X $14m ($56m)...paid price approx $40m
Really glad Bowden doesn't work for the Nats any more. Do you see anything wrong with this post?
(Answer==> unless Melky is retiring in two years you can't conclude he lost $40MM.)
You could say he lost $12MM, if the deal is 2 x $8 MM vs. 2 X $14MM, but since contracts are usually backloaded, it's probably not $12MM either.
Best 25 go North!!
dfh21
Don:
GULP BANG! Gosh that feels good!
NatsLady, the Fangraphs chart is interesting to ponde. First you have fluke "career years" and I still believe Greinke's 2009 was a once in a lifetime for him. He most likely will never get close again to what he had 4 seasons ago (and hasn't) so his change is explainable and for most others, the Cy season is tough to compete unless you are Verlander which makes it that most will decline some and most of the changes on the chart are small which to me shows legitimacy and consistency.
At least FanGraphs didn't try to force a conclusion.
How close are any of these to Orlando? Maybe kill two birds with one stone!
I'm working in to Melbourne, fl this week. Last night, on my way there i saw the sign for space coast stadium. Baseball is coming.
Buena vista and Kissimmee about 30 min from downtown Orlando. Viera a bit more than an hour from same place.
Ghost, I think it's just cautionary--before you sell off the farm to get David Price.
NatsLady said...(Answer==> unless Melky is retiring in two years you can't conclude he lost $40MM.)
Good catch. JimBo isn't too bright, unless he has a crystal ball showing Melky goes back to "average" and will flat-line.
Toronto looks great on paper but I'm not buying. They upgraded with Jose Reyes but JJ has been injured off an on and Buehrle is set for an age adjusted decline. That's a great +6 upgrade for them with Reyes as they "sucked" at Shortstop.
I just don't see moving two 3.80 NL pitchers who face 9 batters and think they will get better much better from adding those 2?
None of those "stars" helped the Marlins win. Joey Bats and Edwin Encarnacion and Jose Reyes are good when healthy. Adding Melky?
I hope they win the AL East but I root for the Tampa Bay Rays over there and against the Bal'more Angelo$e$.
NatsLady said...
Ghost, I think it's just cautionary--before you sell off the farm to get David Price
If he moved to the Nats, he would be a perfect fit in the NL East. Lefty heavy and the pitcher bats.
Is he worth trading your future away, NO. He's much better when he is a short-term rental. Nats don't need him until July 31st when the risk/reward is more defined.
I don't see Rizzo biting on anything until LaRoche is figured out and I say December 10 to 15 is "go time". The Nats are no longer a desperate team.
MurrayTheRed said...
How close are any of these to Orlando? Maybe kill two birds with one stone!
November 16, 2012 2:23 PM
I stay at the Hard Rock near Universal in Orlando and do my traveling from there. An hour +/- to Viera and 15 minutes to where the Braves play and 25 to the Astros and 35 to where the Tigers play.
Does that sound right NatsJack?
Mar. 3 vs Cardinals in Viera
Mar. 4 OFF
Mar. 5 vs Astros in Viera
Mar. 6 at Phillies in Clearwater
Mar. 7 at Astros in Kissimmee
Mar. 8 vs Cardinals in Viera
Mar. 9 vs Marlins (ss) in Viera
Mar. 10 at Tigers in Lakeland
Mar. 11 vs Braves in Viera
Mar. 12 OFF
Mar. 13 (ss) vs Mets in Viera, (ss) at Astros in Kissimmee
Mar. 14 vs Astros in Viera
That would be the stretch where you could be in Orlando with a rental car equipped with the SunPass and drive in close proximity and see a lot of games.
Ghost. Those dates are when the WBC is going to be played.
MicheleS said...
Ghost. Those dates are when the WBC is going to be played.
November 16, 2012 2:50 PM
Scratch that then.
http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/wbc/2013/schedule_and_tickets/
March 2nd to March 19 is the WBC tournament schedule although most players are probably going to be back with their teams earlier than March 19 and some won't have to leave until March 4th or 5th.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabreme01.shtml
Melky's a young man but I think you have to throw out all of 2012's results and probably question his 2011. Is he Atlanta or more NYY or something different?
I would have given him a 1 year deal with an option. Just can't see commiting to 2 years to this guy given his past history.
NatsJack in Florida said...
Ghost....all your travel times are good plus if you like to push the envelope on the turnpike, Port St. Lucie can be reached in 80 minutes.
November 16, 2012 3:09 PM
Thanks. I thought that was my travel times. I've been to every stadium in the Grapefruit League except for PSL. I really like Jupiter but now prefer going no further than Viera on the East Coast.
From Mark DeRosa with Jim Duquette and Jim M. on SiriusXM MLB Network radio.
Duquette: "what one piece the Nationals need to add to get themselves on to the next level to get to the World Series"
DeRosa: "Stephen Strasburg. That was easy. I really do believe if we have him at full strength going and next year they will I just think that rotation would’ve lengthened out so much to the point where it would have been tough for a team to stay with us in a seven-game series. Just the way the matchups would have fell down."
"I played out in San Francisco with Matt Cain for two years — and he’s finally getting the national exposure that he deserves and I think theres a guy in Washington in Jordan Zimmermann thats eerily similar to what Matt’s able to do. So I think the more polished he gets going up against other guys number three it makes it difficult".
I don't see where any of those sites are closer to Ft Meyers than they are to Viera except Lakeland and possibly Jupiter by a very small distance.
Rogers Communications is sort of the Comcast of Canada. The Jays are "inventory" to them, not a separate business. If they're spending $16MM on Cabrera they clearly have more money than they know what to do with and should give their cable customers a rebate.
Why anyone would give Cabrera anything more than pocket change is beyond me. His career nos. just scream, "Juice!"
The Blue Jays have just come out of nowhere this week. Crazy times. Am I correct that they don 't know who their manager is going to be? For one thing, I cannot picture Reyes in Canada. For another thing- it 's going to be very strange for the clubhouse to have that clique of Marlins all together. I am not thinking it 's going to be easy for a new manager to create a blended family. Morale could be an issue.
Theo, plenty of players scream a reason to question how? Carlos Ruiz. Really?
Blue Jays Manny Acta?
Ghost- what are the choices if they are looking for experience? With Melky now I think that team is going to be a handful. Riggleman ???
8th - 11th....I'm in for 4. Go Nats.
Ghost.. Acta was a rumor recently because he and Reyes are friends.
Ghost -- Right on on Jupiter. The Yardhouse -- one of a chain, I know -- makes Jupiter high on my list for baseball.
As an old Red Sox fan I have been to that stadium in Fort Myers every year except last, and I'd hardly call it a dump. Granted it's not as nice as the new Fenway South, which opened last year, but with a million dollar upgrade I think it will be fine. And with two other teams there (Sox & Twins), that will really cut down on travel.
The stadium in Lakeland is really cool, but in a crowded part of town. The Tigers have been there since 1934--the longest stretch in one place of any team. I was there during the 75th anniversary year and they had a lot of fun stuff going on.
The Atlanta field is inside the ESPN sports complex and right next to a whole bunch of Disney stuff. (You pass Mickey Mouse statue on the way to the park.) I didn't like that park very much--can't really remember why.
Kissimmee is also very near Orlando and the park there is the nicest, I think.
Phillies Park in Clearwater is pretty nice--grassy slope in the outfield to watch from.
One thing about Phillies Park--they sell out fast, and the fans are just as obnoxious as up here. For future note--all Red Sox games are sold out within the first couple of weeks of tickets being available.
One of the coolest things in spring training (if you haven't been there) is going over to the minor league complex adjacent to Space Coast stadium. Lots of stuff going on, often with two games going on at the same time. I stood next to Danny Rosenbaum and Jim Lett in one of the bullpen sessions close enough to pick up some of the conversation. Sandy Leon was catching. Lots of the players not in the games sit in the small grandstands behind home plate and you can chat them up--though you might have a hard time if you don't speak Spanish.
One last thing--you haven't lived until you've heard the beer guy at Space Coast. He has a hilarious routine and a voice you can hear from outside the park.
So the Nats signed a Caleb Clay. This year's Zach Duke?
"Clay is 6’2” right-hander originally from Birmingham, Alabama. He spent six seasons in the Boston farm system and compiled a 4.70 ERA in 391.0 total innings. He was picked 44th overall out of Cullman High School in Alabama by the Red Sox in 2006.
Clay didn’t make his minor league debut in the Boston system until late 2007 because of his recovery from Tommy John surgery."
Sounds like several levels below Zach Duke. Better to have a once-was at Syracuse than a never-will-be.
That would be funny to get Riggleman or Acta.
Ghost - agreed. Did you know that the Solano brothers are playing in a WBC qualifier tonight for Columbia? Hope there is video of that. Is Donovan still a Marlin or has he been traded to another country, too?
Hey i'm Italian but i've lived 3 months in the Orlando area, and i've been in both the Astros and the Braves complex, playing in the Astros field. I think Braves complex is better as the main park is better while the Astros complex is decent but not the best of the area, good because of the Bk and the KFC near it.
2 hour highlight show on MLB. I never tire of these things- such a baseball geek. Live baseball tomorrow from the AFL. It's all we get in the off season, it will have to do.
NatsLady, makes me glad that Gio didn't win the Cy Young Award.
Due to work timing, we will be coming for the last week of Feb. Other than knowing that it will be cold and the wind will be blowing, what else do we need to know? Two of the group of 4-6 of us have been before, but any additional information/suggestions are welcome.
ArVAFan
Haven't made it yet. Need to make it happen in 2013.
Will try to make it for the game in Kissimmee on the 25th and definitely the finale in Viera on the 28th. Count me in!
Early Spring Training gives you the chance to see the Minor League invites with the Top Prospects and hopefully you can meet up with friends to make it a great road trip experience!
The 'must see' is NatsJack as he is the Florida Insider!
We talk about the aging of baseball players alot and Torii Hunter bucked the trend last year at 37 years old. The Angels played him in less games which may be a key. 140 games after 156 the year before. Torii slashed .313/.365/.451/.817
Next July Torii will be 38 years old and projected to be a starter for the Detroit Tigers.
Is sitting aging players on day games after a night game the secret to getting increased production or some other plan to rest players.
If I understand Twitter correctly, Mikey Morse is getting married today. Congrats!
Cathy Taylor @misschatter
Congrats to @Dc_BEAST38 and @JessicaEtably on their big day!
Yes, today is the Morse wedding.
I hear lots of mixed messages. Players get enormous respect for playing lots of games, it's even taken into account for awards. But strategic resting and some reasonable pacing could lead to a longer career, less injury time and better productivity. Another example of old school, black and white, simplistic thinking.
I seriously hope that there is a video of the Best Man's toast. Sounds like Beast's brother is a riot.
Isn't this the first of like seven wedding? The guys will be glad to get back into their uniforms after being in formal wear the whole off season. I think Det is next on Dec. 1st. Dropping like flies.
Gonat & Swami --
Extra rest for Hunter may have been part of it but a .389 BABiP may explain it also. Usually I don't pay much attention to BABiP because I think the underlying assumption that all batted balls are alike isn't very sound. On the other hand, when a player's BABiP is 80+ points over his career norm, then indeed luck is part of the equation.
Another thought is that his time off wasn't entirely a reflection of his need for rest -- the Angels were trying to find ABs for four-plus OFs, including Hunter, Bourjois, Wells and Trout.
I think Hunter can still hit his career nos. (.277) and provide some badly needed good Karma in Detroit, and under certain scenarios he would have been a good fit for the Nats. But I'm not sure he was worth the contract he received.
Someone on this blog said two-year contracts are really for one year of performance and one year of anticipated decline, which probably has some truth in it.
Gonat, it's not just 35 year old players, Josh Willingham had 35 HRs in 519 ABs and appeared in 145 games at age 33. He started 118 games in LF. Josh also had a career high in OPS and RBIs.
Josh was pushed to play every day in DC and broke down. Look at the production the Twins got.
I think sometimes that two year contract allows for the first year to be an adjustment year. So many really good players have an off year that first year and then rebound. It's almost scary how many players struggle that first year. Glad Gio did not!
The philosophy Johnson describes is not so much "strategic resting" as "strategic activity." His practice is keep his bench players fresh by giving them full game(s) appearances to keep their bats sharp. That certainly worked until September, when he was putting the regulars out there every day and the effectiveness of the pinch hitters fell off noticeably.
Theo, I wonder if Torii is hitting the ball harder or more line drives. There has to be a reasonable explanation.
SteveM, Quite the power display and RBI production by Willingham. I do remember he had the rep for being injured often. That is quite the production and RBI per AB. .424 with RISP and that is CLUTCH!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willijo03.shtml
Willingham isn't a great example because his knees were already full of rebuilt parts when he came to DC. And he's been able to DH parts of the past two years. Better example would be C. Jones, who played only 112 games (and one brief trip to the DL) and probably couldn't have made it to the end of the season or contributed what he did without lots of days off.
I don't think old school/new school has anything to do with it.
ATTN spring training travel planners: you can easily see two games on March 21. Apparently the Nats game on the 21st is a night game against the Braves at Disney. The Astros have an afternoon game against the Tigers at Lakeland that day.
Exactly NatsJack, we were discussing Danny and BABIP last week. For every 10 Ks turned into Balls In Play should result into approximately 3 more hits.
Remember, the difference between an All Star and a .240 hitter is turning 1 out per week into a hit. Easier said than done but that will add 45 points to your BA and OBP.
Theo, what you said about BABIP is true. That's why we should also look at a player's FB%, GB%, and LD%. besides speed, to account for IFH%.
also you can compare it to career BABIP. players of Hunter's age don't change their hit profile all of a sudden I think so the comparison should tell us how lucky he has been. this is some of the things I do with BABIP. I am sure there is a lot more we can do with it.
Theophilus T. S. said...
Willingham isn't a great example because his knees were already full of rebuilt parts when he came to DC. And he's been able to DH parts of the past two years. Better example would be C. Jones, who played only 112 games (and one brief trip to the DL) and probably couldn't have made it to the end of the season or contributed what he did without lots of days off.
I don't think old school/new school has anything to do with it.
November 17, 2012 9:31 AM
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I think its a matter of knowing your player and getting the most out of him and the Twins did that. Gardenhire only started him 118 games in the outfield which is why he is perfect in the AL as they could still DH him, but they still sat him.
He played less than 20 games a month in the field.
K's are also totally unproductive to the rest of your offense. It just kills me when we get a runner on first with no outs and then he never moves. When you put the ball in play it might not lead to a hit but could advance runners or force an error. More contact is essential.
baseballswami, worse than that is the runner on 3rd with no outs or 1 out and you K. It is the most frustrating K that can happen to a team.
Gardenhire is a great manager, all-around. Inasmuch as Nats will be looking for a manager next year, maybe they could trade Lombardozzi for him. (Not being entirely facetious.)
Nobody seems to do more with less than Joe Maddon and Gardenhire isn't too far behind but I think Rizzo will give Randy Knorr a 2 year deal first.
Riggleman is being mentioned for the Jays job. Really!
MicheleS said...
Riggleman is being mentioned for the Jays job. Really!
November 17, 2012 11:26 AM
______________________________
Yah, just saw Buster Olney's post. Truly amazing that Riggle's could get an opportunity like this.
Michele - I think Riggs has been somewhat unfairly demonized around here. He did everyone a huge favor by leaving half a season early so that Davey could get things organized the way he wanted them and then have a full season. The Nats would probably not have been this good otherwise.That being said, I think he is a better minor league teacher and coach than major league manager. I also think that the Blue Jays clubhouse is going to be a witch's brew in 2013. Tracy and Riggleman are both being mentioned and neither one seems to be much of a strong, charismatic presence that might unite the elements of craziness that have been combined up there. I am also guessing that the new Marlins manager wasn't informed when he signed his contract that he would essentially be managing a AAA team. Classic bait and switch there.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
#BlueJays have not contacted Riggleman, according to his agent, Burton Rocks. Would be interested in job. Has always wanted to manage Reyes.
So the Nats signed a Caleb Clay. This year's Zach Duke?
No, Natslady. He's NOT LEFT-HANDED. Which is why Duke was signed over other possibilities.
I suspect Duke may be back just for that reason. They do not have enough bullpen lefties thanks the up-to-this-point dismal failures Smoker and McGreary. Solis and Purke project as starters but they are still a year or more off given their surgeries and rehab.
The only guy who could conceivably replace Duke is named Daniel Rosenbaum.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
#BlueJays have not contacted Riggleman, according to his agent, Burton Rocks. Would be interested in job. Has always wanted to manage Reyes.
Happy days for Oriole fans if they sign him. Even with the trade they'll still end up near the cellar.
Truly amazing that Riggle's could get an opportunity like this.
Tracy and Riggleman basically the same manager. Both will come very cheap.
NLEast could be interesting this year. The Orioles are better, the Jays are - what are the Jays, exactly? and the Rays always compete. The NY team is, well, it is what it is.
@NatsLady, that explains why Jim's family wasn't aware. I Facebook'd Jim's brother and his response back was "Really? Cross fingers...thanks".
I've known Jim and his family for a long long time and while Jim may not have been the best fit for the Nats or left in a way that doesn't become career suicide, life is about 2nd chances.
Jim just turned 60 last week and I hope he gets the opportunity.
Speaking of BABiP..... Note to Danny Espinosa...keep repeating the mantra continuously "Put the Ball In Play".
Natsjack that wasn't an issue on the right side it was the left side and that was where all the power came from. Most of the 37 doubles to lead the team plus most of the homers.
I think that says he is trying to drive the ball pretty hard from that side.
He just needs to be less stubborn and take a tip from Harper's handbook; listen and take to heart the suggestions of everyone and especially Davey and his hitting coach.
Riggleman did what he could w/ a couple of fractious players in his clubhouse. Clearly, a number of players -- non-offenders -- chafed under his half-successful iron hand. The best thing we can say about Riggleman is that he was better than Acta, who couldn't teach squat or school his knuckleheads.
If I were the Blue Jays, and had spent gazillions in order to beat the Yankees and Red Sox THIS YEAR, I wouldn't pick Riggleman for the job -- there'd be too much going on beneath the surface to focus on what needs to be the sole objective.
There aren't a lot of CERTIFIED MANAGERIAL GENIUSES itching to come out of retirement. Some of them, like Bobby Cox, would be worth more millions if they could be persuaded. I also think of Hargrove and Art Howe. As it comes to me, they may have the perfect candidate in house -- Vizquel said 2012 was his last year.
Jim may not have been the best fit for the Nats or left in a way that doesn't become career suicide, life is about 2nd chances.
Bottom line: "smart ball", small brain just does not work. Letting veterans manage the clubhouse doesn't work. Double switching to get the best smart ball small brain matchup doesn't work. Telling everyone to hit to the opposite field doesn't work.
For evidence of that I submit the 2nd half of 2011 and 2012 seasons.
Riggleman is a AAA manager at best.
Some of them, like Bobby Cox, would be worth more millions if they could be persuaded.
He managed Toronto before the Braves. They already talked to him.
Maybe Buster Olney just had it wrong. How do you name a finalist without the Manager knowing he is being considered or even interested. I guess the assumption is of course he is interested but it doesn't sound right.
Kudos to Ken Rosenthal for contacting Jim's agent.
I disagree. I think Riggs was fairly demonized. His philosophies are not out of the mainstream, but his execution was lacking. The double switches, lack of bullpen usage discipline, inability to earn and hold team respect, insecurity, personnel tendencies, etc were not working here. In the end the winning streak showed him at his best but he tries to leverage it I appropriately.
Hey Peric, some say that Bochy manages to "Smart ball" and in fact Bochy and Riggleman are good friends. Remember Bochy named Riggles as an All Star coach prior to Jim quitting.
Is Bochy small brain?
Riggleman did not exactly have a roster of future hall of famers to work with. Good guy, bad situation . Still think he is at his best in the minors . I saw his team , starring Billy Hamilton, this summer and they were very disciplined and fundamentally sound. He just seems better with younger players who are developing.
I don't have a problem with second chances. maybe Petreaus will get one. I just don't think Riggleman was a good manager. I don't have a problem with a veteran running the clubhouse, as apparently Werth does--but Riggs had a problem with it and then it doesn't work.
whatsanattau said...
I disagree. I think Riggs was fairly demonized. His philosophies are not out of the mainstream, but his execution was lacking. The double switches, lack of bullpen usage discipline, inability to earn and hold team respect, insecurity, personnel tendencies, etc were not working here. In the end the winning streak showed him at his best but he tries to leverage it I appropriately.
November 17, 2012 12:01 PM
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The truth will never come out on what really happened behind the scenes. The rumor was that Riggleman and Rizzo didn't agree on the construction of the team and unfortunately Werth knew that Riggleman didn't want him which led to the clubhouse issues. I heard Riggleman never had control of the clubhouse in 2011.
The other big issue of 2011 was who wanted Stairs and who didn't and also working with the young guys.
I think it was clear that Riggleman was a short-timer and he knew it.
It also didn't matter because Jim's own personality got in the way. Even with Davey, its Mike Rizzo who is the boss. Give your opinion but ultimately you better work with what you got.
I will say it again, Werth has been the clubhouse leader from the day he got here.
Read his words, no love lost for Riggleman. If managing a team was easy, Acta wouldn't be on the coaching carousel.
Jim Riggleman. Nice guy, terrible manager. That's how he's managed to have the worst W-L record in MLB history for a manager with over 10 years experience. Teams keep hiring him because he's a nice guy, then firing him because he's a terrible manager. But that merry-go-round has probably ended thanks to the way he left Washington.
Feel Wood said...
Jim Riggleman. Nice guy, terrible manager. That's how he's managed to have the worst W-L record in MLB history for a manager with over 10 years experience. Teams keep hiring him because he's a nice guy, then firing him because he's a terrible manager. But that merry-go-round has probably ended thanks to the way he left Washington.
November 17, 2012 12:46 PM
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Feelwood, while you use the 10 years to prove your point and it certainly holds in modern baseball, its not entirely true as there were 3 Managers with worse records with 10 years or more and 56 managers with worse W/L % of the 299 MLB managers in history.
So much of W/L records are dependent on the talent you have. Look no further than Managers who have passed through Pittsburgh and Baltimore.
There's also 149 managers that have sub-.500 W/L records.
The way Riggleman left Washington and the way Riggleman managed Washington are separate but related issues. The first can be fixed with a three-year contract. The second management to conclude -- probably from the moment they fired Acta that Riggleman didn't have the qualities to direct a team that even back then Rizzo figured would use 2013 as a launching pad to several or more years in the playoffs.
Which is one reason why Riggleman isn't suited for a Toronto team w/ championship aspirations. The key to Toronto's 2013 season is Reyes. Although he's not a sympathetic character, the schmuck got traded out of five years in a warm, Latino-dominated market and took a $600-$700K per annum tax hit. If he spends 2013 in a pout (50/50), Riggleman isn't the guy to work him out of it.
Nats Jack --
Trying to find a equilibrium between people who want to wipe Riggleman out of the history books and people who will acknowledge that he served a useful -- temporary -- purpose.
Besides, in another year, management will have to decide, afresh, what qualities they want in a manager.
Yes, somewhat bored, too.
NatsJack, there's an gold saying about "pissing on someones grave". Case and point with a few here. They just can't let it go.
gosh, peric, you take everything so literally. all i meant is a minor-league pitcher who's been delayed by tj might be helpful. doesn't have to be a clone of zach duke to be helpful.
Here is an interesting post about service time for Nats. Ryan Perry might have an option left. Not sure.
http://www.nationalsarmrace.com/?p=5047
eh, whatever. He's gone now, and we have Davey, for at least one more season. :-)
Bernie Pleskoff @BerniePleskoff
#AFL12 #Nationals Major League Impact: Anthony Rendon. Born to hit. Solid line-drive bat. Will gain power. Plays solid defense. Athletic.
So just got back from Tyson's dropped of some Sandy Supplies and The Degenerate Nephew got to meet Lombo and his dad.. Pretty good crowd on hand. Looks like they were collecting a good amount of stuff to send up to Jersey. Couldn't believe my nephew was as tall as Lombo.
NatsLady: I am pretty sure Perry does have an option left. One of the other great sites that Mark lists on the left had comment about it and apparently he was injured in one of those years spent with Detroit which does not then count. It would be great if we could see how he is in spring training, and then start him in AAA like we did LannAn. I just can't imagine being as lucky with injuries with our starters as we were this year.
I also think that Garcia has all 3 options left so there are two guys who might just be moved up and down this year depending on our health.
That would leave the big question mark (beside Rizzo picking up a 5th starter from outside the organization) as WWTDAH. What will they do about Henry??
My choice, which will bring lots of ridicule is to keep him! I think if he is recovered from the bone chips, ala Storen, then he is just a super 7th inning guy. I don't think we need to worry about left or right handed here. If he is throwing 101 or 102 it really doesn't matter which hand it is. My concerns are like others, if he is wild and allowing runners a free path to 2nd and 3rd we just can't afford to keep him. But, if he is lights out Henry then we are even closer to being a dominant team once again.
Go Nats!!
Getting set to watch Perry/Rendon/Goodwin etc on mlb channel.
NatsLady, amazing how succinctly Bernie described Rendon in so few words. It took me 3 paragraphs this week to say that. Gap to gap hitter with contact who isn't afraid of a 2 strike count. Surprising speed on the bases. His bat will find some HRs but his XBHs should be through doubles splitting gaps. Like Harper centers ball on barrel with great hands and eye.
Peric, your continued obsession with lefty starters is mind boggling. Go through each team's Opening Day rosters for 2012 and tell us how many teams had 3 of 5 lefties.
Perry gives up a lead off , stand up triple to Billy Hamilton.Not a good way to impress the Nats. Next batter walked on four straight pitches. I still want John Lannan. Knows how to actually pitch, tough minded, can pitch a ton of innings. Perry- third batter singles. No outs yet, hardly any strikes thrown yet. Eh. 2-0 already and getting lit up.
Stand up drag bunt to Billy Hamilton.
NatsJack, he was a long long-shot. Rizzo knew that and it was worth it to try. He wasn't good as a reliever either.
Did I hear them say that Perry pitched in the playoffs in 2011? Really?
Brian Goodwin with the perfect swinging bunt
Just saw, set the DVR. MLB network is going to have a WBC game on at 1 am.
Michele - is that by any chance the game the Solano brothers are playing in for Columbia? Do you know who is playing? Might set my dvr also.
Swami, it's New Zealand.
Here is the web site. I think you can watch some of the games on line on the site.
WBC SITE
http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/index.jsp
Wow - no wonder it's on at such an odd time. I will check the web site and follow what's up with the WBC. Desperate for baseball action. After the AFL, it's winter meetings - blah, blah, blah.
NatsJack - lots of potential first basemen in the organization.Just sayin'. Michele - the Colombia/Brazil game is actually on the website live, but it's so tiny you can't see what's going on and there is no play by play. Just lots of music in the background. At lease you can follow the score, though. It's a halfway decent site to follow things on.
NatsJack in Florida said...
Matt Skole has done enough already to convince me he's much better at first than third.
He's obviously worked hard to improve because last fall he was a butcher in the field at third.
November 17, 2012 4:02 PM
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It was good to see Skole moved to 1st. He has size and seems athletic. The next question is how will he hit next year and beyond.
Just first basemen candidates - Morse, Moore, guy from last year that hurt his leg and I already forgot his name, Skole. Not lefties.
Chris Marrero, Skole, and of course TyMo is the 1st baseman controllable depth and if you ask Peric he will want Ryan Zimmerman added to the list. If we do that we should put down Jayson Werth for 2016. Morse is under contract for only 1 more year.
Can't let that happen getting picked off 1st like that with a RH pitcher.
Mayo made no mention of Bryce Harper in CF for the Nats as a reason the Nats don't have to rush into a CF decision urgently.
NatsJack, you don't see Tyler Moore as an option at 1st base?
I do, Ghost. Most of the major league club fans have not seen him play first and so they assume he plays first like he plays the outfield. Not so. He is not just a hairy chested bat. And even though we love having a lefty at first, not many teams do - it's not exactly a must.
baseballswami, are you referring to TyMo for 1st?
Glad they discussed a position switch for Rendon on the AFL telecast. Pretty much in line with what we have been thinking.
Yes, Tyler Moore permanently at first. Of course he isn't ALR. Yet. How do think position players end up to be good veterans ? Experience. Joey Votto didn't 't start out good but he is now. I think he had the potential to be as good as any if them. I am really tired of hearing that none of our rookies will ever amount to starters. Did we only draft them to sit the bench or trade? These guys are top prospects. Does Rizzo draft guys he thinks can 't be starters? Or is he drafting guys who will eventually step into the starting spots? Rizzo does not draft junk.
Rendon lead off triple. Hamilton hurt on the play. Trying to be Trout.
On Rendons 2nd at bat he laced an 0-2 liner near Hamilton and was unlucky there.
I still see Goodwin needing more seasoning in the Minors but the 3 times I saw him play he changed. Hit a bomb in the AFL Rising Stars game and after that figured he could bomb everything out. It doesn't work that way. Needs to stay short and compact and be an OBP guy.
I think he has the talent and the work ethic to end up like a Joey Votto. But I will agree to disagree with you. If teams continue to think that they can only win with free agents and veterans then they end up like the Phils. It's scary to play young guys because they really aren't as good as your guys in their prime. If you don't integrate them, let them get experience and maturity then you don't allow them to become great and help your team win. I just hate to see wasted assets and I really hate to see teams pay for players that aren't better than your own players are going to be but aren't yet.
That would be Tyler Moore I was referring to...
If Bixler could hit even a little he would be very useful on a lot of teams... Love to watch him play.
Riggleman would want him. Think Rick Ankiel Natslady.
OK.....I don't count any of those guys as bonafide long term first base options. Good, but not franchise like and that's what first base needs to be.
Two words: Ryan Zimmerman. That's it and that is all.
As for Jayson Werth in 2016: two words: bench bat.
From the top.....Ryan Zimmerman to first base is that "crap made up by bloggers"......and crao isn't the word he used.
So far the only blogger I've seen mention it was the mlb web site and Ladson who quoted his "sources". Said it was a distinct possibility ...
But before that and why I keep bringing it up is both Zimmerman's consistent injury (serious) and DL stints AND his throwing issues at third.
Rendon may be prone to injury perhaps we'll have to see. But, he is younger and he doesn't have the throwing issue.
Peric, your continued obsession with lefty starters is mind boggling. Go through each team's Opening Day rosters for 2012 and tell us how many teams had 3 of 5 lefties.
Very few if any Ghost. I am just very certain that is something Davey would prefer if the right talent is available to him. The NL East calls for left-handed starters and top notch left-handed hitters. Which is why Davey is so keen on re-upping LaRoche.
At the end of his interview with the Junkies he called the Dodgers the worst team he had to manage BECAUSE of the dearth of left-handed starters, relievers, and bats.
Rendon doesn't have a throwing issue. Yet. That we have seen. Very small sample size. Zim didn't have it then either. I think we will see Zim's throwing be much better this year - even though he has occasionally had the yips in his career, this year it just seemed like even though the pain was under control, his shoulder just wouldn't do the things he was asking it to do. Last night I watched the top 100 plays of the year. Zim was not in it, but we only had five and one was Bernie's catch, one was JWerth's walk off.100 plays, 30 teams, 162 games plus postseason means a lot of plays to choose from. They did say that Zim was featured 21 times during the season on the weekly shows -- that was tops for all of mlb. He still has it at third.Let's see how the shoulder is before we write him off at the hot corner. By the way - the oddest moment of the year on the show? Morse's phantom grand slam!
Peric, I don't mind 3 lefties as starters if the 3rd lefty is the best available pitcher and I think that is how Rizzo will approach it.
Zim didn't have it then either. I think we will see Zim's throwing be much better this year - even though he has occasionally had the yips in his career, this year it just seemed like even though the pain was under control,
This was the third year in a row that Zimmerman suffered an injury that cut into his season. His hitting was affected. And that's the KEY point. When Zimmerman is healthy he is by far the very best hitter the Nats have. A year like LaRoche had wouldn't compare to a full year of a reasonably healthy Zimmerman.
They need Zimmerman's bat more than they need his glove at third especially since they now have the perfect substitute.
if the 3rd lefty is the best available pitcher and I think that is how Rizzo will approach it.
Agreed, but the emphasis, or priority listing if you will will have lefties that you can count on with Davey managing.
I suspect other managers wouldn't be as set on this approach as Davey seems to be. But all the GM can do is say "it works, we'll try to give him what he wants".
NatsJack, do you think Davey's priority is 3 lefty starters?
NatsJack, do you think Davey's priority is 3 lefty starters?
Given the dearth of potential effective left-handed relief particularly in the back-end? Factor in Davey's penchant for alternating a right-handed starter with left-handed relief if he can't go the requisite 7 to get to the back-end? Consider the fact that the Nats now have plenty of effective arms on the right side to alternate with left-handed starters? Further, there's the left-handed bats in the NL East especially in Philthy land but also ATL way.
Got to thinking about Rendon's successful AFL season and wondered how he did compared to Bryce Harper's 2011 AFL numbers:
Harper: .333/.400/.634, 6 homers
Rendon: .338/.436/.494, 0 homers
Obviously, Rendon is a line-drive hitter with power and Harper is more of a pure power hitter. But man, look at Rendon's OBP. He also had 6 stolen bases.
I mentioned once here that Rendon reminded me of Billy Madlock. His average season during his 10 best years (ages 23-32):
.316/.377/.457, 20 HR, 80 RBI, 20 SB
I have no doubt Rendon will be in that ballpark with perhaps a little more power. The RBI's will depend on where he bats.
I just don't know where he'll play, and my guess is he'll be ready to join the club for good next September.
Not at third; no way the team is moving Zimmerman to 1st that soon.
Not at short; he's not a major league shortstop.
He could play second--and probably should--but I'm not sure the Nats want to play a (thus far) injury prone player there.
They might move him to first, but he doesn't have the power you'd want there.
If Espinosa pulls a Desmond and improves next season--or if Lombordozzi is given the everyday job--he just might become the centerpiece of a trade that would bring a #1 or #2 starter to Washington.
Farid @ Idaho
Good Nats classic on masn. Zim 3 run walk off vs Phil's in 2010. Way before Take Back the Park. It sounds disgusting. Riggleman, Dibble and a park full if Philly fans. I may have nightmares. You know, that campaign and the whole Natitude thing--- really brilliant . Set some tones for the season.
NatsJack, that's my thinking that the Nats aren't 4 or 5 right-handers at this moment as they have Gio and Det which allows them to get an upgrade over EJax no matter what arm the pitcher throws with.
The 3 righties worked well last year with the 2 lefties and Lannan in reserve.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121117&content_id=40343056&vkey=news_was&c_id=was&partnerId=rss_was
Roger Bernadina busy again teaching kids baseball in Europe with other Major Leaguers.
So Brian Goodwin gets a walk and proceeds to get picked off. Later Goodwin gets a triple but gets called out for leaving early on a sac fly. He's not convincing anybody that he's ML ready with games like that.
The boy seems to have a short attention span.
So, what's the latest on ALR? Does he have any offers yet? Will he make a decision before Xmas so he can enjoy a stress-free holiday with the fam?
Let the dominos start falling!
Not at third; no way the team is moving Zimmerman to 1st that soon.
Zimmerman has been pretty consistent about injuring himself fielding the third base bag the past three years. Its a choice between being the aggressive fielder he likes to be or being passive as he was at the end of last season. He wasn't as good holding back from making spectacular play where he has to stretch out for the ball.
So, when Zimmerman eventually injures himself then you are likely to see Rendon called up and ensconced at third base. After that it will only be a matter of time before he moves to third base.
Man this is like the nutsy Lannan fans who can't get it through their skull that Lannan just isn't that good?
Zimmerman is the BEST HITTER the Nats have. Everyone is falling all over themselves about Harper (and it looks like Davey is a huge fan of Werth #1 and Harper #2 so FORGET Bourn people!) but in the end Zimmerman has the potential to be a tier 1 hitter as good as any in the game, with power to hit 30+ homers. He's the guy you absolutely MUST try to keep healthy. Playing third base does not go a long way toward accomplishing that. In a very real sense drafting Anthony Rendon was godsend just for that reason.
They NEED Zim's bat more than his glove. If and until Harper, (or perhaps Rendon or Desmond and yeah Morse has that potential it seems), reach that plateau Zimmerman IS the only impact bat in their lineup.
Putting it another way Zimmerman is their best and only impact bat that can field and my bet is on him fielding gold glove at first base while hitting in the top tier.
In the end its going to happen and its going to happen sooner not later and when it does? :)
And Natsjack OF course they would pitch Price, Gio and Detwiler. Its Davey!!! Of course!
That doesn't mean Detwiler is a permanent fixture with Purke and Solis working their way to the majors. So, he may end up as a tradeable commodity to replenish the farm after this year's trades gut it even more.
Joe Seamhead said...
So Brian Goodwin gets a walk and proceeds to get picked off. Later Goodwin gets a triple but gets called out for leaving early on a sac fly. He's not convincing anybody that he's ML ready with games like that.
November 18, 2012 9:21 AM
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Not so fast...while he is to blame for that pickoff, he may not be to blame for the botched Sac Fly as the Coach probably yelled GO and didn't time it right.
peric:
So you think ALR will sign elsewhere? If not, he blocks Zimm's move to 1B for at least the next 3 years.
peric said...
Not at third; no way the team is moving Zimmerman to 1st that soon.
Zimmerman has been pretty consistent about injuring himself fielding the third base bag the past three years.
No, he's injured himself running the bases and taking headers into home. Quit using bald-faced lies to support your ridiculous argument that Zimmerman will be moved to first base soon.
Gonat --
Goodwin was watching the OF as he left 3B; he was at least two strides down the line when the ball was caught. Maybe he heard the coach yelling "go" -- that's speculation -- but it's not an excuse for not believing his own eyes.
Maybe he turns out to be one of those guys like Milledge who just never "gets" it. But I don't think anybody really expected him to be major-league ready this year.
He really doesn't have much of a pedigree; North (?) Carolina didn't care enough to -- or couldn't -- keep him eligible, plus one year of JUCO where I doubt anyone was teaching any of the finer points of the game. So it stands to reason he'll take at least another year before anyone thinks about putting him in a lineup on a regular basis. His flurry of season-ending whiffs in the AFL confirms as much.
With Harper in CF, the Nats are in a position to be patient for a couple of years.
Theo, you could be right but proper coaching is to rely on the 3rd base coach to watch the catch and the runner should focus solely on getting back on 3rd base and looking straight at homeplate.
If Goodwin was trying to do it himself, then you are correct, its more questions about his "baseball smarts". That was also Goodwin's 2nd pickoff in the AFL. Really bad getting pickoffed by so far by a RH pitcher. He wasn't even leaning. He just took too big of a lead and couldn't get back.
Theophilus T. S. said...
Gonat --
With Harper in CF, the Nats are in a position to be patient for a couple of years.
November 18, 2012 10:27 AM
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I feel the same way. Harper has given the Nats more than anyone could have imagined in Centerfield and that gives Rizzo tremendous flexibility.
Moving past all the serious discussion, here are GIBBY picks:
MVP: Trout
Hitter: Cabrera
SP: Dickey
Rookie: Trout
Closer: NA
Setup Man: Romo
Defensive Player: Brendan Ryan
Breakout Hitter: Desmond
Breakout Pitcher: Dickey or Sale
Comeback: Dunn
Manager: Davey
Executive: Beane or Rizzo
Postseason MVP: Panda or Scutaro
Play: Bernie's walk-off catch
Storyline: Tomorow's stars
Hitting performance: Panda's 3 homers
Pitching performance: Santana against STL
Oddity: Morse' homer
Walk-off: Chipper's walk-off against PHI
Cut4 Topic: That's a clown question, bro.
Postseason Moment: NLDS game 5 or game 4 of WSH vs STL.
In a case of OR, either choice is fine with me.
Hello I'm a first timer at this but does anyone know anything on Sean Burnett
This is a good starting point: http://bit.ly/Q3dUP7
Also check references and external links for more resources.
How about moving Harper to 1B in a few years. Never heard this even as a possibility, but he used to be a catcher, so not that much of a stretch. You lose his arm and speed in the OF, but I would hate to see him struggle with injuries his whole career like Mantle, Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton, or any of the numerous other good hitters who got hurt playing the OF. The thought must have crossed Rizzo's mind. It would also save him an extra mile of running per game...might sound ridiculous, but that adds up to more off days and more trouble with the knees, especially with his large frame.
Holy Cow!!!!
Blue Jays are considering Uncle Jimmy for manager's spot.
GM Anthopoulos needs to check with us here at NI for real insight on the matter.
I hear that Veeck's midget is on the list too!!
I think werth as catcher makes more sense. gotta find ways to not pay the man remaining $99 million on his contract. he will obviously be not worth it.
Obviously? Hell, Jason's at bat in Philly after pissing off the Phans, and then his game winner in game 4 against STL has made me less inclined to underestimate Jayson Werth then ever.
Welcome, Steamer. We're all in for the waiting game on Sean, ALR, and Mike Gonzalez. Sean and Adam aren't going to come back cheap. I still think all Nats moves will be determined by the ALR decision.
You funny man, Jack.
Thanks Joe
I believe Sean does want a three year deal and I think that Nats should give it too him
Jack, it's possible that we'll come down, though it's been discussed that I might be going with a couple of guys.We'll see. I used to love going bass fishing in the Kissimee chain, especially on East Lake Toho. Maybe I can put together a combo trip.
Changing the subject, but can somebody change that record on the jukebox about moving the face to a different base? That song wasn't very good the first time that I heard it and it doesn't sound any better after hearing it ad nauseam.
Steamer, I'd like to see Sean back,too, but his market price may be over the top. I think that three years at big money for a reliever could possibly be hard for Rizzo to make peace with. It will depend greatly on what other teams offer him. He could certainly help a couple of clubs significantly.
The bullpen is getting expensive. Clip going to get some millions in arb, Storen is a Super 2, Gorzy is getting paid like a starter...
That's true Joe
My sister and brother-in-law invited my wife and me to the Redskins game today. Only the second game I've been to since I gave up my season tickets before the Nats came to town. RG3 is fun to watch. He makes the whole offense fun to watch. Still like my Nats better though. Long live the Nats!!!
I think Ted Leonsis was rooting againt the Redskins as he didn't want to be the worst team in Washington. At 0-8 and $125 for a lower bowl ticket, he must think we are all nuts. 16,000 was the announced attendence yesterday. I don't get it.
Is 16 K bad or good? Don't follow basketball. The Wizards are really bad, yes?
For a perennially bad team (esp a winless one), 16K at a Wiz game is decent. Unfortunately, they have a bad GM, similarly incompetent as Bowden was during the 100-loss seasons
Sure glad the Nats are not looking at that anymore!
peric:
So you think ALR will sign elsewhere? If not, he blocks Zimm's move to 1B for at least the next 3 years.
Normally I would acquiesce to this BUT you have to wonder whether they will up the ante on a team that overpays ALR given this:
Thanks to James Wagner at the AFL: (Anthony Rendon considered the Nats top prospect at this juncture):
NL Scout’s take: “He’s played pretty well defensively at third base. Hasn’t really had a great Fall League. He’s not really impacting the ball or driving it. But he hasn’t really struggled. He’s struggled a little bit with pitchers with hard fastballs. It’s been surprising how well he’s played at third.”
Same Scout said he thought Goodwin was still a year away. His fielding isn't really there yet. Plus he struggles against left-handers. (Harper may be better in CF). Skole has the bat but a ways to go in the field.
There's your two left-handed possibilities at this juncture other than Roger Bernadina. Is Bernadina a break-out candidate? Are Davey and the FO willing to take that risk?
So, it seems to me that acquiring the "sinister" across the board appears to be a best guess as to the Nat's offseason strategies as far as moves.
The bullpen is getting expensive. Clip going to get some millions in arb, Storen is a Super 2, Gorzy is getting paid like a starter...
Last I looked Lannan made more Natslady. A lot more. So that doesn't really hold. Good bullpen types are worth a lot to one Davey Johnson that you can take to the bank.
Never heard this even as a possibility, but he used to be a catcher, so not that much of a stretch. You lose his arm and speed in the OF, but I would hate to see him struggle with injuries his whole career
Harper just turned 20 years old. Zimmerman is closing in on 30.
Big difference right? Sheesh troll alert indeed.
Quiet baseball weekend for Free Agents. Juan Pierre chooses the Miami Marlins as he wants to start.
Steamer said...
Hello I'm a first timer at this but does anyone know anything on Sean Burnett
November 18, 2012 12:03 PM
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The Jeremy Affeldt signing last week set his market fairly well.
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