The Nationals made a qualifying contract offer to Adam LaRoche before today's 5 p.m. deadline, but not to any of their other free agents, ensuring they would receive at least one draft pick as compensation should they lose the veteran first baseman.
LaRoche was given the one-year, $13.3 million offer all free agents are eligible to be offered under MLB's new compensation system, according to MLB.com and FoxSports.com. The 32-year-old can either accept the offer (which equates to the average salary of the top 125-paid players in the majors this season) and return to the Nationals for 2013 or decline the offer and seek a multi-year contract with any of baseball's 30 clubs.If LaRoche (who has seven days to make a decision) declines the offer as expected, the Nationals would receive a compensatory draft pick (a "sandwich" pick between the first and second rounds) should he ultimately sign with another franchise this winter. That franchise would then lose its first-round draft pick (unless it's one of the top 10 picks) under a system installed under the new collective bargaining agreement that eliminated the old method of classifying free agents as "Type A" or "Type B" players to determine compensation.
Essentially, the Nationals are acknowledging they're willing to pay LaRoche $13.3 million for another season of his services. In truth, they're willing to offer him more than a one-year deal, and the two sides could still reach an agreement on a contract potentially in the range of three years and $36 million.
LaRoche, like all free agents, is free to begin negotiating with other clubs Saturday morning. Coming off a season in which he hit a career-high 33 homers while matching his previous high of 100 RBI and winning his first Gold Glove award, he's expected to listen to offers from other teams in the market for a first baseman. The most likely suitors are the Red Sox, Orioles and perhaps Rangers.
In the end, the Nationals will have the ability to match or exceed any of those offers, or try to convince LaRoche to take less money or fewer guaranteed years to return to a club that believes it can contend for a World Series title in 2013 and beyond.
Though they extended the qualifying offer to LaRoche, the Nationals did not do the same with any of their other free agents (Edwin Jackson, Sean Burnett, Mark DeRosa, Michael Gonzalez, Zach Duke). Jackson, who made $11 million this season, was the only member of that group who would be worth anywhere close to $13.3 million.
In electing not to make the offer to Jackson, the Nationals essentially are acknowledging they don't intend to make much of an effort to re-sign the right-hander and are content to seek a No. 5 starter elsewhere.
266 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 266 Newer› Newest»I WANT ADAM BACK!!!!!!!!
I will now sulk in the corner until this is resolved.
I'm with ya...
I'm surprised they chose not to make the offer to EJax. Guess they're not confident he won't take it.
I love ALR but he's gone.
I want Adam back, too, but I admit that it is with a little trepidation. I also want the Nats to sign Michael Bourn, but the combination of the two would certainly mean that Michael Morse is traded. My newly energized wife and two daughters would be really devastated to see The Beast go. I would really hate to see him go, as well.
+1/2St.
hiramhover-
That is my only thought, as well. I guess they figure that he will go out and try to get the multi-year deal he wants, but not find it again. A $13.3M one-year deal for a title contender would look pretty great at that point.
We have to remember that there were times that we all were excited to have him sign for 2013. He always seems to fritter away the enthusiasm, doesn't he?
+1/2St.
A bit surprised that the Nats didn't make EJax a qualifying offer. It really says how much we didn't want to risk him accepting it.
Quick diatribe on Michael Bourn. I realize Scott Boras is promoting us and our deep pockets as the likely landing place to drive up the price for Bourn, but it really surprises me how baseball writers buy it. Bourn is just not THAT good. For however many years we could get out of Bourn (didn't Heyman suggest he would get a FIVE year deal), that we couldn't get equal production out of some combination of Morse, Moore, the Shark, Brown, Goodwin, Perez, Taylor or Hood is tough for me to buy. The pieces we have and the pieces in the pipeline feel too close to make a run at Bourn.
In short, spend the money on ALR for three years.
You can read between the lines there. Again shows the people who tried to claim EJax was good wasn't what Rizzo thought.
Gives credence to my theory that Jackson split w/ Boras because he wanted to take the offer if it was made, didn't want to follow the Boras mode of stringing things out until GMs forgot how absurd the asking price was. Nats dodged a bullet.
$13.3 million was not worth the risk.he would accept it. Now no compensation.
On EJax - I don't think Rizzo's calculation is that he's a bad pitcher but that the Nats can get the same level of production elsewhere for less than $13m.
On Bourn - If he could reasonably be expected to keep producing over the next 5 yrs at the same level he has been for the last 3-4 yrs, then the money they're talking about wouldn't be outrageous. But he can't, so it is.
In the immortal words of our 38th president, "Our long Nationals nightmare is over."
hiramhover said...
On EJax - I don't think Rizzo's calculation is that he's a bad pitcher but that the Nats can get the same level of production elsewhere for less than $13m.
They already have a pitcher under team control who can give them the same level of production for $5-6M tops. His name is John Lannan.
Sorry to see Ejax go. He continues to have an inconsistent career, but had 'team' written all over him. He was there to be a hitter, pinch runner, and occasionally pitch a good game.
I'm with Constant Reader on Bourn. His career is heading for the mediocre stage, and we some guys just as good or better coming down the pike.
JUST SAY NO TO BOURN!
Just saw elsewhere that Tejas didn't offer Napoli -- so that's one of their internal 1B possibilities no longer on the table.
Not worried about Laroche. He will be back. Just a shame teams have to do a danceto get there. Nats mgmt is very smart. They get a draft pick if he leaves and a cheaper option will play first. This team has options. Unbelievable to see how well this team is being built.
As for Jackson... meh!
I would say no to Bourn and I'm ok with Lannan in place of EJax. I don't really feel the need for a high priced FA. I just don't want the team to regress in ability. If we can keep LaRoche, I think our youngsters, especially Bryce Harper, will improve such that our team can win 106 games in '13.
I'm more concerned about Sean Burnett... where do we stand with him?
No to Bourne with MicheleS for many reasons
1. He will want 4 or 5 years and I just can't see that type of deal for someone who certainly will start to tail off.
2. Davey does not like to steal and that is one of his strengths.
3. Bryce can handle CF for one, maybe two years (hell, maybe for the rest of his career) and we have youngsters coming soon as well.
4. Just realized that if we sign Bourne, we will probably lose our 1st draft choice next year. I realize its not a top pick but its OUR top pick and I like what Rizzo has done in the draft. Not only would we be spending big bucks but we would be hurting our player development.
5. I want that money used to sign JZimmnn & Desmond to extentions. Go for one year deals for a starting pitcher and bullpen help.
Go Nats!!
Michele -- I second your just say no and raise you an oh heck no. Bryce and Jayson in the outfield and Morse or someone else who can hit and is adequate at defense in left. No prima donna free agents, please. Lannan in the number 5 spot should get us the same amount of wins as Ejax did or more. Well, maybe not if ALR is gone :( Need that hoovering at first! Lesson from this past season - who worked out better, the high priced free agents or the bluecollar ballplayer that plays as part of a team? LA spent a gazillion dollars on players to win the west, the Giants got Hunter Pence and Scutaro. We missed out on Prince and Buerhle - kept ALR and got Gio. Again - no overpaid egos need apply.
I thought about it. It's kind of unfair to Jackson to extend him the qualifying offer if you expect (hope) that he will reject it. It lowers his market value because the team he signs with would lose a draft pick. Rizzo did the fair thing (good Karma), and I wish EJax good luck.
OTOH, with LaRoche, you are trying to re-sign him. So lowering his market value is a fair tactic. That's just me.
I'm agnostic on EJax; I am just a bit surprised Rizzo decided it wasn't worth the risk of EJax accepting the money to get the draft pick. I guess this speaks volumes about the new CBA and what draft picks are worth now. Loading up and overspending on picks (see our '11 draft) just isn't plausible anymore, so it tips the balance on the risk/reward for making EJax an offer.
Lannan certainly provides a back up plan for that 5th starter spot. Do folks really think he's Rizzo's plan A? I kinda doubt it.
Isn't it amazing how close to the vest Rizzo plays things. I wonder in other cities if they get more information than we do. I had no idea they what they were going to do concerning Jackson and nothing was leaked early. I understand not offering him the extension and it does not end our chances of re-signing him (although I doubt that it happens).
DO NOT PLAY POKER WITH RIZZO! YOU WILL LOSE!
hh, I don't believe Lannan is Rizzo's plan A, but I think he's a good plan B. If Rizzo can significantly improve the team without giving anything away, so much the better.
i can't believe rizzo only offered a 1 year deal to laroche i thought the whole reason why he wasn't getting resigned was because he wanted 3+ years, I don't know maybe this 1 year contract is a genius move by rizzo in disguise, but i just don't see ALR biting on it and taking it, im afraid that he will walk
Teddy, the qualifying one year deal is just a place holder that gives the Nats some rights in case they can't work out a deal with Adam, such as a sandwich pick in next year's draft, and maybe the right to match any other team's offer (but I'm not sure about that). I'm sure Rizzo didn't expect Adam to accept the qualifying offer.
Only problem with sliding Lannan up to the 5th spot is that you need 6, 7, or perhaps 8 quality starting pitchers to go the distance. Losing Jackson is losing an important part of our depth.
Considering how lucky we were in the rotation health department in 2012, I feel like we can't have enough depth there heading into 2013.
Of course, I'm sure there is a bigger plan here. In Rizzo We Trust. (Or at least I do, I know some fans - not around here - expected us to go undefeated this season and therefore think Rizzo is a failure).
thanks for clearing it up sonnyg, but if we really wanted him back, why not make the offer before other teams get to talk with him so we can save some money?
hh- I'm with you, as usual. I doubt that Lannan is our 5th starter next year. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he's non-tendered, which doesn't mean Rizzo wouldn't re-sign him at a more reasonable price than he'll get in arbitration. Rizzo has other plans for the rotation, I'm convinced. And with Lannan now being out of options, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not a National by mid-season next year.
I think Burnett performed quite well for the Nats, but long term deals for relievers are risky. The difference between Burnett and the lefty we can get on the open market is just not that great.
As for ALR, it sure sounds like Rizzo wants to re-sign him, but I don't think he's willing to offer him 3 years (if he is, why didn't he sign him for three years starting in 2011?) And I don't think ALR will take a 2 year deal without testing the market. As NL notes, making him a qualifying offer him was the obvious move to make him marginally less marketable and ensure that we at least get something if he walks. But the new CBA makes striking gold by going over slot in the draft much tougher. That means the draft pick we might get for ALR isn't worth nearly as much as it once was.
Except for maybe 10-12 players -- and the 2013 draft may not be that deep -- the draft is as much of a crapshoot as ever because, with young players, you never know what you're going to get when they finish developing. Espec. pitchers, who seem to need to turn 25 before they are anything like a finished product. Now being a good team, the Nats will pick at or near the bottom of the first round instead of the top. If a half-dozen teams lose their 1st rounder because of their FA signings, that means maybe the 24th player overall. Then the sandwich pick if LaRoche walks.
When the Nats picked up Rendon, Meyer, Goodwin (sandwich pick) and Purke, they could pretty confident that at least two of the four would perform like first-round picks. Because the Nats won't be skimming off the top-rated players anymore, any player in the 1st or the sandwich round -- anywhere near the top -- has become pretty damn valuable.
That being said, I'd much rather have LaRoche. Lose LaRoche, get a long-term project of unknown quality in return. Replace him in the lineup with an X-factor. Not a reassuring outcome if the plan is to be a contender every year.
I agree with you, NJ, on Buurn. I don't see how either of the Uptons fit in here, either. I also see this team as being too close to go and make a series of big shakeups. Get ALR signed, tweak the bullpen, make a decision on a #5 starter.
Questions to me are more in the "what are you gonna do with the guys you got" then what we don't have. Tyler Moore? I haven't seen enough of him at first, but seeing the very few opportunities Davey gave him I figured there must be a lot lacking in is fielding at first. I never care to see him in the OF again.Corey Brown? Again, I haven't seen enough of him to understand why he hasn't gotten more of a chance. From what I've seen, he's plays a great OF. Few mention Yuri Perez, but he impressed me with a catch he made in CF in early September. He turned at the crack of the bat and flew to the wall making a very tough catch look routine.Only one play, but I haven't seen another outfielder on our club play a ball like that so naturally. I see Steve Lombardozzi continuing as a utility guy, but would like see him getting a few more starts at 2B against RH'ers.A couple thoughts on pitchers- I'm not as impressed with Zack Dukes as some. I see a soft tosser that will get rocked. Christian Garcia is still intriguing, but with his injury history, not as a starter. Ryan Perry? A starter? Who knows. A couple of starts in the AFL don't translate to much as far as how he's do in the ML's as a starter.
I read where Ortiz is back with the Red Sox; so, that takes Boston out of the running for ALR?
Joe Seamhead - true Tyler Moore did not get playing time at first but not because his skills are lacking - he was very good there when he played. Better than expected. Just a logjam there. He was good at first in the minors. I also think we need Lombo in the games more - platoon? Depends on how Danny comes back next year. All that contact, with the baserunning skills and good defense vs. regular strike outs? Danny Espinosa's hitting is going to be a key issue this spring.
If you have time to listen, this is one of the most interesting podcasts I've heard in a long time. Includes discussion of Matt Skole and how he benefitted from the Nats training and conditioning program, plus difficulties Latin players face, ages of prospects, and that if Trout or Harper were playing in age-appropriate A or low-A they would drive in 240 runs!
prospects-with-mike-newman
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fangraphs-audio-prospects-with-mike-newman-3/
Let me say this about Danny and his hitting. Any team that has a gold-glove calibre second-baseman who can slide over and play SS with the same great glove, hits .250 and bops a few dingers SHOULD NOT BE WORRIED. Get over it.
NatsLady said... Sign LaRoche and make the qualifying offer to Jackson. With luck EJax will accept.
October 30, 2012 8:32 PM _________________________________
"With luck EJax will accept." Are you kidding me? $13.3 million for a 4.00+ ERA pitcher?
He didn't do the job at the most critical times.
To me, time to turn the page and get the pitcher you thought EJax was supposed to be.
October 30, 2012 8:37 PM
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From earlier in the week, I'm just glad Mike Rizzo is our GM. You can't GM playing the "nice" game or building a Championship team "hoping" that a pitcher will improve when you gave him a year already.
Oh, and if you want a good laugh, some New Yorker is predicting the Nats sign Nick Swisher and ALR goes to Seattle. Really? If ALR is going somewhere 3/33 it's gonna be HERE! Nick Swisher, 5/70????? With the outfielders and 1B logjam we already have??? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
12. Nick Swisher, OF-1B
Can he find a big-market team where he doesn’t have to be the centerpiece and where he and actress wife can expand their brand?
Prediction: Washington, five years, $70 million.
25. Adam LaRoche, 1B
The Nationals could sign Swisher to play first base, forcing LaRoche to look elsewhere for work.
Prediction: Seattle, three years, $33 million.
agents_of_change
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/agents_of_change_n0M7Yp4OSJEAFD1y6omWEM
Gonat with the "gotcha" as usual. I'm outta here as soon as he comes on. Bye.
by the way, Haren is a free agent now. guess one year deal is not likely now.
NatsLady said...
Gonat with the "gotcha" as usual. I'm outta here as soon as he comes on. Bye.
November 03, 2012 8:57 AM
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You have thin skin and can always dish it out. Your guys Wang and EJax are gone and hopefully Henry Rodriguez right behind them.
How can one person pick 4 players in Spring Training 2012 and watch 3 of them perform so poorly. Luckily Tyler Clippard had a great year.
Maybe Ankiel will be your LOOGY here?
reason Danny's Ks look even bigger is because our lineup as a whole strikeouts a lot. I honestly think that our lineup as a whole needs to cut down on Ks, not just Danny. Other hitters have contributed somewhat so we don't complain about them as much. Of course Danny also needs to change his approach a little bit. he needs to be a line drive hitter.
Theophilus T. S. said...
Except for maybe 10-12 players -- and the 2013 draft may not be that deep -- the draft is as much of a crapshoot as ever because, with young players, you never know what you're going to get when they finish developing. Espec. pitchers, who seem to need to turn 25 before they are anything like a finished product. Now being a good team, the Nats will pick at or near the bottom of the first round instead of the top....
This is why I was so happy that Rizzo and the Lerners were willing to put up good money to get the best scouting department possible. We need to be able to find those gems in the later rounds.
I think Rizzo would try again with EJax for $8 million, not for $13.3 as you have to think Rizzo will be looking at potential with anyone he gets.
On February 2nd I loved EJax potential. He put up #2/#3 numbers in his 2 months with the Cardinals. Dave Duncan was an amazing pitching Coach. Unfortunately, EJax.regressed, it happens But you can see the potential and it is up to EJax if he will ever consistently live up to the potential.
slidell2 said...
I read where Ortiz is back with the Red Sox; so, that takes Boston out of the running for ALR?
Ortiz is strictly a DH. The Red Sox still need a first baseman.
Anibal Sanchez - what say ye Nats Insiders? Maybe?
baseballswami said...
Anibal Sanchez - what say ye Nats Insiders? Maybe?
November 03, 2012 9:39 AM
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Yes if the years and price is right. With more pitchers becoming Free Agents the Nats may be able to snag him. Given his age I think he is a safer bet than some of the 33 to 36 year olds out there.
Feelwood, the Red Sox need for a 1st baseman who is left-handed doesn't have the same urgency now. Could they go for a Carlos Lee now or making Nick Swisher a full-time 1st baseman.
I thought SteveM's theory a few days ago of Texas on LaRoche makes more sense and also agree Texas first has to rebuild their outfield.
Mark Reynolds will be an interesting player. His option was turned down but he is still under team control if retained and arbitration eligible or could still be non-tendered.
He could end up in Texas or Boston.
200 more Ks to our lineup? why not?
NatsJack in Florida said...
Ghost.. I agree with you on EJax... and I also agree with you Gonat on Anibal Sanchez.
Rizzo may kick the tires on EJax for say... 3 years at $25 Mil if he can't get the guy he wants who I firmly believe is Greinke and then followed by Sanchez.
And I think he's savy enough to know that dealing with the Rays front office can burn you pretty good so no matter what anybody else says, he isn't getting anybody in a trade with them.
November 03, 2012 9:49 AM
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Rizzo is playing with house money right now as he still has rights on Lannan. He can test all waters and his worst case fallback is Lannan.
I also think he is thanking his lucky stars he didn't get Greinke 2 years ago. With 2 additional years to watch him, Greinke is just a #2 pitcher who is on the same track as EJax. Brilliance then bad. He is very inconsistent and with the chemistry of the clubhouse I think that he may just want to say "no" to Greinke as you will have to pay Ace money to a pitcher who hasn't been an Ace since 2009.
His underlying Sabre stats were very good at home for the Brewers but not good on the road. Since you play 1/2 your games on the road, that's a problem. 3.42 vs 4.15 home vs. road ERA is too big of a gap.
Anibel Sanchez is just the opposite, great on the road with a 3.29 ERA and lousy at home with a 4.52 ERA. By the way, Anibal has a 1.13 in Nats Park in 6 games!!! Is that his "ownership" of the Nats or that he would pitch well in Nats Park?
Anibal Sanchez is the hidden gem if you believe he loves pitching Nats Park and then can continue that Road mastery he has.
Faraz Shaikh said...
200 more Ks to our lineup? why not?
November 03, 2012 10:02 AM
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Read again - Texas or Boston.
LOL ok. I thought you meant like he is an interesting player but Texas and Boston are favorites to land him.
So strange to hear reporters talk about ALR going to other teams. Even if logically I would be ok with it, emotionally I feel possessive. Hard to hear it. I always get attached to our players and it takes me a while to adjust. Just a homer. I admit it.
This is my educated assessment---
1. Absolutely no to Bourn which there seems to be a consensus. My concern outside from blocking our young guys is that if u sign Bourn n Adam for 5 n 3 yrs respectively, you gamble on both of them being productive past their prime. All data says not good to sign guys past their prime.
2. E-Jax may eat a lot of innings but he also gets hit a lot n he seems to not perform well towards the end incl the postseason.
3. We need two quality pitchers not one cuz we got lucky last yr with no injuries. Also, did anyone notice how quickly our pitchers started going down hill towards the end n how only Det showed up in the PS? This had nothing to do with the Strasburg cuz he too started showing signs of fatigue. This is very concerning. Either Davey n company r not managing the pitching staff right, our pitchers cannot go the distance, or our pitchers got spooked. Managing n getting spooked r fixable but not having anything in the tank is a concern. Rizzo needs a plan for having options should a pitcher go down or if we have a repeat of last year.
4. I would not sign Adam to more than 2 yrs. if you look at Adam's history, last year was the exception not the norm n given his age, I say he will not be anywhere as productive as 2012. I know people want him back but lets first look at the numbers n make a good sound decision for the long term of the team.
5. While a leadoff hitter is great, it becomes a moot point if the team cannot hit consistently, so fixating on a leadoff guy isn't the answer to our offense issues. So what to do with our Jekyll n Hyde offense? This is where Davey needs to start managing more aggressively n needs to be more, how shall we say, flexible n less set in his old ways. If your bench guys can hit n r ave on defense, then play them especially when they are hot n cut the loyalty mentality. We r here to win, not to tippy toe over a player's feelings.
6. DO NOT TRADE DANNY! Why? Because he gives us options on defense that quite frankly is luxury by playing really good def on 2nd n SS. So what if he strikes out. If we can learn how to hit more consistently it won't matter how many times he strikes out. A main reason the Giants won the WS was b/c of their excellent def.
7. Finally, Rizzo needs to have a talk with Davey about......thinking outside the box. If not it will be another disappointing season. In the PS u need to manage aggressively b/c u are playing la creme de la creme so there will be times where trying something different will be necessary. DJ can practice this during ST n reg season so that he can get comfortable with the idea that there are different tracks to take.
Gonat at 10:05, that is great research. He's a power pitcher with a 6 pitch repertoire. My only hesitation with Anibal is that the Braves are his Kryptonite. He has a lifetime ERA against the Barves of 5.42 and a remember his 2012 collapse vs them. Uggla and Heyward own him in small sample sizes and JRoll and David Wright own him in large sample sizes.
For the record, it has not been my impression that NatsLady has a thin skin at all. I do agree with her that the dredging up of prior posts and the calling out of other commenters gets old.
On topic, would be happy to see something worked out with LaRoche. Will leave the armchair GM stuff to y'all as usual.
On a general baseball note, if you have MLB Network you can watch the AFL Rising Stars game tonight at 8.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
Gonat at 10:05, that is great research. He's a power pitcher with a 6 pitch repertoire. My only hesitation with Anibal is that the Braves are his Kryptonite. He has a lifetime ERA against the Barves of 5.42 and a remember his 2012 collapse vs them. Uggla and Heyward own him in small sample sizes and JRoll and David Wright own him in large sample sizes.
November 03, 2012 10:20 AM
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Stras was owned by Uggla and he concentrated on what it took to fix that. If the Nats went after Anibal, I think he could fix any issues he has with particular batters but it also becomes a back of the mind where if you have flexibility in matchups, less throwing Anibal against the Braves.
On Jimmy Rollins, he's a year older and that bat will slow down even more.
Anibal Sanchez would be at the top of my list to pursue.
NatsLady, I saw that story about predicting the free agents. Really SWISHER? seriously? I laughed. His value went way down during September and especially during the playoffs. No Way he gets a contract that big.
Why would Adam go to Seattle? That team is not ready to win during the time that he would be on that team. It's going to take more than 3 years to fix the problems that Seattle has.
Greinke makes zero sense for the Nats. We're not starved for pitching the way a lot of other teams are. He's the top FA in a weak market, and it just doesn't make sense for the Nats to put up the kind of money--$100M+--that will be necessary to compete.
I'm surprised folks even bother to talk about it.
I get criticized often by Peric, Feelwood and others and many times the criticism is a different perspective. I learn a lot from it. I don't think bringing up a discussion from less than 3 days ago is dredging up outdated items, its a continuation of a hot current topic on EJax and offering him the $13.3 million.
Some people want to run their mouths and not think it has anything to do with their credibility or we should forget prior posts as if they don't exist. This same person has been on a crusade to trade Michael Morse . Where's the credibility to back up the constant barage of negative statements?
To take 3 or 4 stances and be wrong on basically all of them doesn't sit well with me.
I had no problem getting EJax. It seemed like a smart signing but when he did not do the job you don't complicate it by giving him a raise with an opening to accept the qualified offer. That was just ridiculous. For Rizzo not to give EJax a qualifying offer tells you how afraid he was that EJax may accept it and Rizzo wasn't willing to risk it to gain a Draft pick.
What fun would it be if we agreed all the time. By the way, I agree with Hiram, don't chase Greinke.
I also say all the time about players I have issues with like Detwiler and Danny and Henry and Wang, prove me wrong and happily Detwiler has turned his game around and proved me wrong. I embrace that. I hope Danny proves me wrong.
Agreed, Ghost. The world would be a boring place indeed. That, and, "blog cred" aside, we're each entitled to our opinion, in my, um, opinion. :-)
What fun would it be if we agreed all the time.
hiramhover said...
Greinke makes zero sense for the Nats. We're not starved for pitching the way a lot of other teams are. He's the top FA in a weak market, and it just doesn't make sense for the Nats to put up the kind of money--$100M+--that will be necessary to compete.
I'm surprised folks even bother to talk about it.
November 03, 2012 10:48 AM
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I'm thinking you have to look at Greinke but Anibal Sanchez seems to make more sense in terms of years and money.
natsfan1a said...
Agreed, Ghost. The world would be a boring place indeed. That, and, "blog cred" aside, we're each entitled to our opinion, in my, um, opinion. :-)
What fun would it be if we agreed all the time.
November 03, 2012 11:17 AM
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For the record, I don't ever remember disagreeing with you or MicheleS so I don't fall into NatsFanJim's category of attacking female commentors. I just try to call them as I see them not matter who it is. If it seems I agree with NatsJack all the time, I do.
I find MicheleS one of the best posters here. She has great insight and is very baseball savy.
I think the point 1a is trying to make is none of us actually have any credibility and all posts come with a disclaimer of personal opinions.
And if I was as baseball savvy as I would like to be, I would be working for Rizzo a la Jonah Hill in Moneyball. We are just regular people with opinions that should be respected. (Except for the deliberately mean and nasty).
Faraz Shaikh said...
I think the point 1a is trying to make is none of us actually have any credibility and all posts come with a disclaimer of personal opinions.
November 03, 2012 11:28 AM
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We all have track records established over time based on opinions and thoughts we give.
Credility is just simply defined as the quality of being believable or worthy of trust.
I can think of plenty of credible posters here.
I can think of plenty of credible posters here.
So can I. Gonat isn't one of them. In my opinion. Lots of posts, very little substance.
LoveDaNats said...
And if I was as baseball savvy as I would like to be, I would be working for Rizzo a la Jonah Hill in Moneyball. We are just regular people with opinions that should be respected. (Except for the deliberately mean and nasty).
November 03, 2012 11:36 AM
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It may be hard for you to believe and NatsJack will confirm this that there have been other journalist(s) that had commented here as well as people that work in the world of baseball as well as many family members read NI on a regular basis.
NatsJack. I agree on Grienke. Rizzo will kick the tires there. but I don't think he will go banana's on him. The question about Greinke - is which one do you get? 2009 Greinke, or the one we saw more recently - who just seemed to be okay. I don't want to overpay for Okay Grienke.
I am also not sold on Haren, I don't want a reclamation project for our staff - we are beyond that. If I am going to get a "Vet" I am willing to go after Dempster on a 2 year deal.
Is Swisher a Boras guy? Is that why we are linked to him?
NatsLady said...
I can think of plenty of credible posters here.
So can I. Gonat isn't one of them. In my opinion. Lots of posts, very little substance.
November 03, 2012 11:46 AM
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I was expecting that from you. Whenever you don't like criticism you fire back with cutdowns. 3 days ago when I commented on your EJax post you attacked me. You were wrong on EJax plain and simple but you just aren't right too often unless you are quoting actual stats. Once you have to analyze the stats, you blow it.
What you saw with Wang was an illusion. You wanted to see greatness and you maybe saw it once or twice, unfortunately greatness is earned over time. Same with Henry Rodriguez.
Take the criticism and try to get better because you are batting below Mendoza!
MicheleS, not according to baseball reference. His agent is "Joe Bick," not a name I'm familiar with.
Here are Swisher's stats. Basically a .270 hitter with some pop, could be good for 25 HR. Wouldn't take him over Morse, that's for sure.
Nick Swisher
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/swishni01.shtml
Gonat and NatsLady, you are both out of line. Take your issues offline. Don't take things so personally.
Greinke would probably have to leave $30-40M+ on the table for him to make any sense at all for the Nats--the guy who would do that isn't marching to his own drummer but the pied piper.
As for other possibilities--Gonat and others have mentioned Sanchez; I've seen Lohse's name too. Both of those guys are probably in the top 4-5 FA SP as well, and the prognosticators (for what they're worth) think each will go for at least 4 years and $12-13M or more per year, which doesn't end up looking like that much of a bargain over EJax for 1 yr @ $13M.
As fans, we tend to dream about the guys at the top of the FA list--if you're going to kill 30 minutes fantasy shopping at an auto dealership, why stick with the Corollas or the used cars? But I wonder if that isn't the part of the lot where we'd find Rizzo. Would he hold his nose on a Joe Blanton type, for example, or bet on a reclamation project, like Roy Oswalt? Or--not to go that far down the pecking order--a Ryan Dempster?
I'm sure they have all this on a board somewhere. Would be really interesting to get a peak at it.
Ghost, Gonat started it and wouldn't leave it alone. When he stops mentioning my name I'll stop mentioning his.
hh--LOL, so would I! My feeling after the poor showing by our starters in the postseason was that we needed another top guy. However, we got to 100 wins with the current staff (including EJax and Wang). Now I'm wondering if we want to tie up the money and years for a top guy, when we will have Stras at full strength, Gio and JZ older and wiser, and Detwiler on the cusp of his long-awaited potential.
Thanks NL.. never heard of his agent either.
On another note does anyone know whey Mike Gonzo left Boras? I can't believe that I pay attention to the agents. UGH.
1A.. thanks for the reminder on the AFL game tonight. Will need to organize sometime around that. Really curious about our baby nats.
NatsJack - No, I was not at all sorry to see Morgan go - in fact, as a Nats fan, I was embarrassed by him. His schtick gets old really fast. Some posters talking today about how Rizzo has certain players he gets a little stuck on. My fear is that we are going to end up with an Upton brother. The Nats clubhouse chemistry was a factor in their 2012 success ( and yes, I call 2012 a ringing success), kind of like the Giants as a team. I do think one egotistical prima donna could upset that apple cart. The Nats won 98 games with devastating DL time, with STras not fully up to a full season, with JZim hitting new innings highs, with a brand new catcher late in the season, with Bryce being 19. They should be better just with those things being settled. We don't need all that much at this point. I think Rizzo is a smart GM, just hope he is careful and doesn't add too many ingredients to the brew.
HH.. No to Oswalt. He showed the last 2 years his back is not worth the risk.
NatsLady and Gonat are 2 good members here and you 2 need to take a timeout from each other and find your happy place together in Tyler Clippard.
Words hurt and opinions too.
NatsLady, who do you think Rizzo should pursue for a pitcher this off-season.
interesting article: http://webusers.npl.illinois.edu/~a-nathan/pob/AJP-Feb2003.pdf
LOL, NatsJack. Mean post of the day.
baseballswami, I have to agree on caution for the sake of team chemistry. Agree on BJ Upton and defer to Rizzo on Justin Upton.
It keeps coming back to signing LaRoche and retaining Morse. For those who aren't aware, Werth's very tight with Morse. They are polar opposites in personality and I was surprised to hear they are very chummy off the field.
"Just say no" to Michael Bourn. He'll be way overpriced, and who needs a leadoff guy who struck out 155 times this season, and has a .339 career OBP? Those numbers are not what you want at the top of the order. We've had way too many of those high strikeout guys over the years (see Dunn, A or Espinosa, D), and have figured out by now that they are rally killers. I'd rather see ALR re-signed, and Werth can remain as the leadoff hitter if necessary.
NatsJack, in a mirror RA Dickey is left-handed!
So I was doing my other favorite thing this morning. Looking at the schedule for possible road trips. Definelty looking at going to PIT in May. Also, would love to go to NYM - haven't seen the new stadium. Would drool over going to CHC.
MicheleS, Oswalt may now be branded a clubhouse problem. Perfect for the Dodgers.
Ghost, honestly, I haven't had time to look at anything except the "obvious" candidates (and I'm at work now, and have to give part of my attention to the piano student.) Let me get back to you.
FS, that is an interesting article, lots to chew on. Will have to print it out and give it some time. Thanks,
NatsLady, fair enough. Also keep in mind how smart Rizzo is, he knows you have to cause discomfort to all the NL East and the Giants and Cardinals and Reds which is why Rizzo will raise the ante on many players he has no interest in.
The Yankees and Red Sox do that better than any teams. Rizzo will show interest in BJ Upton, Bourn, etc.
I also want the Nats to sign Michael Bourn, but the combination of the two would certainly mean that Michael Morse is traded.
They are not going to sign Michael Bourn, most especially given the number of years a guy on the plus side of 30 will want. It would block far too many promising highly talented prospects for starters ... sheesh it often seems as if no one is on Nats planet and prefer to be out in space with the Scitari or something.
Finally Dave does NOT like to steal, and believes in the Earl Weaver mantra of waiting for the big hit and not giving away outs. Bourn's main offensive weapon is his base stealing after slap hitting to get on base.
This is WAAAAY different from Brian Goodwin who is a scary lead-off hitter in that he comes with significant power from the left-side. In other words? Goodwin can lead-off in Davey's system or in Giggleman's "smart ball" small brain system which is what a return to Bourn would signal.
And I'm sure everyone wants to return to Giggleman's Island right 1/2 Street?
By the way. Is peric still claiming R.A. Dickey is a left hander?
Why not? With knuckleballers it doesn't matter in my mind. The matchups aren't worth a damn if they are on.
The thing about the knuckleballers is none can consistently stay "on".
Yes.
Faraz Shaikh said...
I think the point 1a is trying to make is none of us actually have any credibility and all posts come with a disclaimer of personal opinions.
Yes, agreed that you don't fall into that category.
Gonat said...
For the record, I don't ever remember disagreeing with you or MicheleS so I don't fall into NatsFanJim's category of attacking female commentors. I just try to call them as I see them not matter who it is. If it seems I agree with NatsJack all the time, I do.
I find MicheleS one of the best posters here. She has great insight and is very baseball savy.
November 03, 2012 11:26 AM
My fear is that we are going to end up with an Upton brother. The Nats clubhouse chemistry was a factor in their 2012 success ( and yes, I call 2012 a ringing success), kind of like the Giants as a team.
I don't see it at this point. With two outfield slots taken by Harper CF, Werth (RF) and lead-off? With Morse, Tyler Moore, Bernadina, Goodwin, Brown, etc? I just don't see it. It would have to be a helluva deal that favored Rizzo big-time and Tower isn't going to do that. They not longer need BJ Upton. With Harper and Goodwin who bat left not right? Why? Throw in Corey Brown and Roger Bernadina who both bat left? Why? That ship has sailed.
Davey has a say too. He likes to get what he needs from inside the organization. Not from the outside.
Me, too, provided I can talk my better half into it. :-)
Definelty looking at going to PIT in May.
Apparantly Ask and you shall receive
Michael Gonzalez article in the post. Good stuff in the last paragraph about the clubhouse.
And some insight on Dan Haren
Balky backs make me nervous.. almost as nervous as balky shoulders
Any team that has a gold-glove calibre second-baseman who can slide over and play SS with the same great glove, hits .250 and bops a few dingers SHOULD NOT BE WORRIED.
Not to mention gold-glove caliber short-stop when he slides over. Upping his doubles total to 37 this year to go with 2 triples and 17 home runs.
I'm sure you'll find the other "genius" Natsjack agreeing with this.
IMHO the weakest slot they had in the lineup this year was the #3 slot. He's their best hitter but he was again, injured, for far too many games this past season. He needs to be in the lineup for the entire season and reasonably healthy. And these moves I think, may be precursors to Ryan's move to first base to facilitate that.
I suspect if they decide that Rendon isn't ready they can always put Lombardozzi at second base and slide Danny over to third to help Ryan get accommodated to his new position at first.
Eventually, Rendon will be ready.
Haren and Oswalt with those back issues.
The Yankees and Red Sox do that better than any teams. Rizzo will show interest in BJ Upton, Bourn, etc.
He won't have to Ghost. The media and baseball pundits will do this for him. I suspect they may look at Ted Lerner's age and start predicting the Nats will panic and try to buy a world series ....
Meanwhile, Rizzo will be working on deals that will almost guarantee this without mortgaging the future. Again, I like Drew's call ... David Price. Perfect fit. For this coming season and well into the future. That does fit what Rizzo likes to say over-and-over again.
Has anyone heard if Morse had his hand/wrist issue looked at? Does that sheeth injury just require rest or a scalpel?
Burnett had back issues and "managed" them. Is it allowed to have your doctors examine a guy and get his medical history before making an offer?
Hot stove..
Mike Aviles is getting shipped around a lot
MLB@MLB
OFFICIAL: @BlueJays acquire RHP Esmil Rogers from @Indians for INF/C Yan Gomes and INF Mike Aviles
Peric, good point. The media does make that easy but Rizzo helped Buehrle get a bigger payday last year IMO so it either happens by true circumstance, by media smoke and mirrors, agent gamesmanship or covert action, just happy to cause discomfort to the competition.
NatsLady. From that report on Haren, the DR's may have looked at the reports on the Harden's back and that caused the deal to be off.
Let me clarify something on the back issues - Disk issues are what concern me and if the guy has one of those super torque deliveries. Oswalt is disk problem, not sure about Haren.
My two cents:
1. ALR goes somewhere for 3 years. Tyler Moore is 2013 OD first baseman. And we're fine with him all year.
2. Burnett leaves and we replace him with some nondescript Rizzo pickup. And we're fine with him all year.
3. I join the chorus for No Bourn. $100 million? For that fly-swatter with the Nyjer-like arm?
4. We are absolutely fine with the Kid in CF for next year, and forseeable future.
5. We're all assuming Davey is back and so far no word on that. We may be putting cart before the horse here.
6. I loved EJax contributions for the team in general. On the mound, not so much. Rizzo will plug that gap with lefty FA, with LannEn as backup.
7. If Nick Swisher signs with the Nats, I'll buy everybody bourbon and Maalox for the entire 2013 season.
NatsLady, easier to manage back issues for a reliever. I don't think it was a coincidence that Oswalt moved to the Texas bullpen and not sure what Oswalt next move is.
just an observation, I had heard the rumor after the season that ALR wanted something like $40 million over 3 years. The Nats offer is about what it would be for a 3 year deal.
Rizzo may be a sharp cookie but prying Price away from Tampa would take a system-shattering deal. Plus they would probably shove an additional ugly contract or two down our throats in order to make the deal.
Let's assume ALR does sign with us.... it would appear to me that the only focus would be on 1 more starter and 1 more stopper. Perhaps we have that stopper in the organization now so maybe one big FA signing for that starter. In fact, I would not be opposed to re signing Jackson.
Why not let this group play???
NatsJack, agreed with Tampa. Friedman was a killer. Look what he did to CHC on Garza.
I just hope anyone with any kind of ouchie at all is getting it rested or repaired in the off season. I hate to see players come into spring training with some physical problem that they thought would magically clear up. And MicheleS --- Pittsburgh's stadium is really an awesome place - you should go if you get the chance. As for Rizzo? He has lots of in-house options for almost everything, especially the outfield. I hope he is extremely picky about any deals. For the Nats, I would think we are in the driver's seat because we are not desperate for anything. We just have to beat up on the Giants, Cardinals and Braves this year, as well as turn the tide against the Marlins. It's time for the Nats not to be the upstart underdogs, but to be the force to be reckoned with.
Agree with the chorus about the un-wisdom of a deal for David Price--would cost more than Gio, and at a time when there's less need.
Ball's in your court, peric--realistically, what package of prospects could we give up that Tampa Bay would accept in return?
See my post up top about dealing wirh Tampa Bay. Rizzo learned enough in his discussions on Upton last year. He's too smart to deal with them.
Maybe so, but just like with Gio Gonzalez it will be something similar. They do still need one more starter to stabilize the rotation and it looks like it wasn't EJax.
Price fits like a glove.
And, Natjack, Rizzo and Freidman had a nice deal in place at one time that Stan put the kibosh on. Adam Dunn for Matt Moore. If that deal had taken place they would be set. Of course there also probably wouldn't be a Drew Storen ...
On another note... I can't believe the gerbil is back managing in Miami... whay circus down there, lol
Ball's in your court, peric--realistically, what package of prospects could we give up that Tampa Bay would accept in return?
I've already done this and perhaps Drew has as well ...
At the very least one part of that could be either Michael Morse or Tyler Moore. The Nats are deep in right-handed prospect pitching. The Rays have Matt Moore ready to step up and they've decided to hang on to Big Game James Jimmy Shields.
The Nats have depth in the infield as well. Right handed relief depth is very strong.
There is nothing stopping the Nats from putting together a bevy of prospects and perhaps a veteran or two for David Price just as they did for Gio.
Ask Natsjack. He sees those guys down there. He knows the Nats have what the Rays need. The real question is whether another team has better ... then again, which of those teams had the best record in baseball last year? That's going to put the Nats in the drivers seat for trades they ended up sitting on the sidelines for in the past.
So, I think Drew hit that nail on the head. I never considered the possibility but now, with the Rays seemingly making moves to keep Shields?
About the Marlins new manager -- I have to confess that I had to google him. Is he going to be Mike Soscia/Mike Matheny kind of good and whip the Marlins into shape? Seeing as how we really need to get the Marlins monkey off our backs, just trying to figure out if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Anyone know or have an opinion? Oh, come on now, you just know someone has an opinion!
Morse as a one yr player at almost $7M doesn't really make sense for Tampa--the whole pt is to keep their payroll down. Their MO seems to be demanding solid prospects with long-term team control. Tyler Moore fits better, but is hardly enough in himself.
Tampa needs help up the middle, according to at least one report. What can the Nats offer--Lombo? I don't think they're parting with Espinosa, at least for now.
Peric, Goodwin was Dunn and Storen was Crow.
BTW, I don't know if anyone if following the AFL (I'm sure Natsjack is) but its interesting to see that where Goodwin and Skole started out hot they have cooled significantly ... whereas Rendon consistently gets better and better in spite of his long layoff and recovery ...
Anthony Rendon is the closest to the majors of every single positional prospect the Nats have. He is knocking on the door. If he had not been injured in that freak base running play he would likely have joined Bryce Harper in the majors last season.
Some can point to his fielding hiccups but he is really still just getting underway ...
The Nats have got to find a place for this guy. He is way too talented for the price they are paying him not to play him instead of someone far more expensive and not as talented like Michael Bourn.
Odd man out looks like Adam LaRoche so the Nats are going to stick to their price for LaRoche if another team antes up more. Especially, when the Nats can move a better hitter and fielder to LaRoche's slot in Zimmerman.
The problem then moves to the outfield where they will need another true left-handed power bat out there to go with Harper. This could preclude Morse and Tyler Moore making them available for trades.
But, Is Goodwin ready? He looks like he may still be a season or so away still. Could Goodwin, Morse, Moore, and others end up in trade for a top young left-handed starter and a left-handed bat in left-field? Would they go for a player like Carlos Gonzalez for left-field leaving Bryce in center? Or are they going to put their marbles on Goodwin?
Will they wait for Solis and Purke and slot them into the rotation against the left-handed heavy NL East or use them in trade for a top-of-the-rotation lefty like David Price?
The Nats do have options. More than at any time in the past. They just need to stay the course, stay with the philosophies that have got them here but were side-tracked by Stan Kasten and Jim Riggleman and his love for players in organizations he came from like St Louis. Davey is the perfect guy for this franchise ... a guy who believes in using the players working hard inside the organization first ... unless you can get one that is one heckuvalot better than what you have on the inside.
Peric, Goodwin was Dunn and Storen was Crow.
Really? My memory fails me ... sorry ...
I would still take Matt Moore over Goodwin. And Crow for that matter.
Tampa needs help up the middle, according to at least one report. What can the Nats offer--Lombo? I don't think they're parting with Espinosa, at least for now.
They would probably have to part with Espinosa or Desmond. Now both are far more valuable than they were the last time Rizzo and Friedman talked. That means fewer players in addition to those two leave the Nats fold as additions for Price.
Yes, they would part with Espinosa and Tyler Moore for David Price. And the y would immediately try to extend him at the same time with Zimmermann thus cementing the top rotation in baseball for five years or so. I think Rizo would part with others (if there is depth). I also believe they would part wiht Desmond ... were it not for Davey. Davey would immediately veto that. ~smiles~
Is it worth it? Yes. Losing Espinosa would hurt. But with Anthony Rendon, Zach Walters, Stephen Lombardozzi, Jeff Kobernus ... the Nats have options.
One or two more trades and they are pretty much in a position where they will have five years to again rebuild the farm system again bereft of prospects. Hopefully, it will push ownership back into the international arena before that too is placed under draft rules.
if you want Price, you part with Rendon and more. no other player(s) get that deal done.
If the gerbil reference was to Don Zimmer, I believe that he's with Tampa Bay, not the Marlins, and as a senior adviser rather than a manager. The Marlins skipper is new to that role in the bigs.
I agree with Sunshine:
--ALR leaves for 4-5 deal with somebody; Tymo takes over at 1B, puts up solid first-year numbers (.270, 20 HR, 70 RBI) and adequate defense
--Burnett walks, Rizzo replaces him with another lefty (Affeldt?)
--Rizzo signs second-line SP to replace EJax: how about Dempster? He went 12-8 with 3.38. Plan B is Lannan.
if you want Price, you part with Rendon and more. no other player(s) get that deal done.
The Rays would then have to ante up another player in addition to Price. Rendon is one of the top hitting and fielding prospects in baseball.
But I don't think they go for Rendon. Boras is his agent.
--ALR leaves for 4-5 deal with somebody; Tymo takes over at 1B, puts up solid first-year numbers (.270, 20 HR, 70 RBI) and adequate defense
Where then do you put Anthony Rendon who is both a superior fielder and hitter to Tyler Moore? He may not hit for the same power as Moore but he is the better hitter ... think Zimmerman the younger.
If you move Zimmerman to first base you have effectively have two Ryan Zimmerman's in your batting order adding in Rendon.
--Burnett walks, Rizzo replaces him with another lefty (Affeldt?)
This looks to me like another trade or trades that must take place before spring training. See the deal for H-Rod plus Corey Brown for Josh Willingham.
Remember what James Wagner wrote?
The Nationals have built up their depth in the infield with recent drafts, and the best prospect in their system is sweet-swinging Anthony Rendon. Rendon can play third base, shortstop or second base. Rendon missed most of 2012 because of a fractured ankle, but he still made it to Class AA Harrisburg and hit .223/.363/.489 in 160 total plate appearances. Rendon, the sixth overall pick in 2011, likely will start at Class AA Harrisburg and rise quickly to Class AAA Syracuse. He figures to reach the majors next year, as a call-up at the very least.
Keep in mind that Espinosa can play third base, second base, and short-stop as well. That would give you two players with that ability.
And yes, Espinosa also has Boras but he wasn't a first round pick and he isn't going to be as highly valued and coveted as Rendon. Although IMHO he should be.
So?
Zimmerman 1st base: gold-glove consideration, 30 homers, 100 RBI, .350+ OBP
Espinosa 2nd base: gold-glove consideration: 20 homers, 40 doubles, 60 RBI
Desmond short-stop: gold-glove consideration: 25-30 homers, 20 steals.
Rendon 3rd base: gold-glove consideration: 20+ homers, .350+ OBP, 70 RBI.
Nothing wrong with that infield if everyone can stay healthy.
--Burnett walks, Rizzo replaces him with another lefty (Affeldt?)
I think there is some chance they sign Zack Duke & Michael Gonzalez back, and also stick with Gorzo. Having Zack and Gorzo in the bullpen would provide insurance options for injuries among the starters.
Rendon is the ONLY projectable everyday player in the Nats minor league system today.
Agreed. So much so that he is making a real problem for the FO's roster construction for the 2013 season.
But the others do constitute potential tradable commodities and I assume that is why there are in Arizona this season. In the AL a Skole, aT-Mo could be worth far more as DH potentials. Tampa Bay is in the AL.
And Rendon needs a full, successful minor league season.
He's not a 19 year old like Harper. He looks more like a Zimmerman in the offing to me. Albeit a bit of a half-pint version. I don't think Zimmerman needed a full year of minor league training to produce at a good level? And this is Davey who believes he is the best and ultimate guy to refine and prepare top talent for major league baseball. More so than any coach or minor league instructor. He spends a lot of time beating the bejeesus out of poor former Syracuse manage Randy Knorr. Will likely do the same with Beasley.
Its something to keep in mind with Davey. He believes he can train these guys for major league play better, faster, stronger (6 million dollar theme song cuts in) than any other coach in the Nats system. And looking at Harper? Tyler Moore? Roger Bernadina this year? Maybe he is right Natsjack?
But you would have a better angle on that since you spend a lot of time at the FLA complex and SpaceCoast stadium?
NatsJack in Florida said...
Rendon is the ONLY projectable everyday player in the Nats minor league system today.
Goodwin scared everybody with his 55 strikeouts in his short stint at Harrisburg and while everybody loves Skole's power, there's major questions about his ceiling. Both require alot more developement.
November 03, 2012 2:28 PM
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Rendon needs to dominate Harrisburg/Syracuse in the way that satisfies Rizzo. If he passes the Rizzo test, we could see him sooner than later although I agree with you that its probably later. Harper didn't put up lofty stats and Rizzo knew he was ready. That was truly amazing and kudos to Rizzo.
He's going to need a position change from 3rd as I don't see him as a Lombo type rover bench hybrid but I guess nothing is out of the question because if he can hit, Rizzo will find a defensive position for him.
Could Rendon be 2013's X-factor player?
why not give Ejax one more year?? maybe he needs stability and a little hug
I say bring Rendon up in July
FWIW, in an article ripping the Angels, Rosenthal does not mention the Nats as in the picture for Greinke.
ervin-santana-dan-haren-zack-greinke-pitching-moves-backfire
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/los-angeles-angels-ervin-santana-dan-haren-zack-greinke-pitching-moves-backfire-110212?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co
Wow, the A's re-signed Bartolo Colon. Now that leaves Brandon McCarthy up in the air--wonder if there is a question about his recovery from the brain surgery...
NatsLady, there is much panic here in SoCal about the Angels and Dodgers. Huge payrolls and neither made the playoffs.
They are wondering if McGwire can fix Hanley and AGone. Beckett has a nickname already that starts with F and ends with it.
Funny to ready they will compete for Greinke.
Why in gods name did Billy Beane give Colon another shot? Good lord. I don't think there was a concern about McCarthy's recovery considering they were talking about him potentially pitching if the A's made it to the WS.
McGwire is going to have his hands full with Hanley. No offense, but I hope he fails.
NatsJack/Ghost, I agree, dealing with Tampa Bay is like getting held up at gun point. They will rob you blind. Plus, I don't think There is any love lost between the managers ;-)
Anyone think they annouce Davey's coming back on the day that he get the Manager of the Year award? (Okay, I a know I am grasping but DARN it, get this thing done. I will keep offering the bribes)
Ghost, I just think the price will be way too high for the Nats. Rizzo is willing to pay but he has his limits, as in Prince Fielder. I don't sense panic here (but actually you don't sense much of anything as the ship seems to be leakproof.)
MicheleS, yes, with the A's that is very odd. You were just hearing about the "special relationship" between McCarthy and the team, and now he seems to be on the outside looking in.
NatsLady, if the Nats did many more Werth overpays in years they would look like the Phoolies. Harper has saved this team with his excellence in CF.
I penciled in Justin Upton until Baseballswami knocked some sense into that.
Team chemistry is actually underrated.
Okay here is something nice..
Heather Downen@heatherdownen
ziMS Foundation surpassed the $1 million mark donated towards MS research @ 2012 ziMS Foundation Gala & Golf
MicheleS, it seems the league last year just said NO to Tampa as they got stuck with BJUpton.
I'm thinking if you need David Price, wait for July 31.
Rendon is the future in DC.
MicheleS, Nats have a great year and the related charitable efforts soar. Great news. I expect the same for the Dream Foundation endeavors and Desi and Gios foundations.
I have a question, for all of you much more knowledgeable Insiders than I:
It doesn't seem as though there's much effort made to rest the starting position players, during the season. With Lombo, Moore, Tracy, Shark, and (one hopes) another couple of capable fellows (Rendon?) on the come, I would think everyone would be able to have a day off, every week, and maybe a "long weekend" once a month, or so. I get that the starters are starters for a reason, but our bench seems to be shaping up as top shelf, as well... Bench gets more ABs, stays sharp, you have the starters, to PH later on.... Everyone would seem to stay healthier and fresher. I suppose if it was as simple as that, it would be done more, but help me to understand.... Ghost? natsJack
.291, or whatever he's hitting right now in the AFL, doesn't persuade me Rendon is ready for daily use in a major league lineup. In 2011 he was undistinguishable from 50-60 other good college hitters, having lost his power stroke due to injury; in 2012 he was hurt again and clearly showing, when he returned, the rust accumulated over, essentially, two years. And that's just his bat. He's got several errors in a small AZ sample and has been shuffling between 3B and DH. Ian Desmond was acclaimed as a defensive whiz from the day he was signed, and how many years did it take for him to fix the error problem? Eight?
Rendon's got two levels of the minors to navigate before we will have any idea whether he's ready.
UnkyD --
There's an equation: Putting your best players on the field every day = Your best chance to win as many games as possible.
I think every major league manager would love to have a lineup where he could count on sending out his top position players, with the exception of the catcher, 150+ games a year.
Lombardozzi, Bernadina and to a lesser extent Moore got all those starts because of injuries to or deficiencies of other players, not because it was optimal. Assuming -- big assumption -- Morse, Werth, Zimmerman, Desmond are all healthy this year for the full season, Lombardozzi will have far fewer ABs in 2013.
Unkyd..
Also think of it this way. Desi was out a month, beast was out 50 games, RZ missed at least 2 weeks and was ineffective first part of the season, you couldn't pry Espi out of the line up (except for a couple of days) Werth 3 months, ALR had a couple of days off - and THANK GOD HE WAS HEALTHY (SIGN HIM ALEADY - still sulking). Let's not discuss the catchers, I will cry for Wilson and JFlo was the human bruise until we go Kurt.
Injuries and tweeks take care of the days off.
FS, I skimmed the article you posted (didn't work out the math myself, and probably won't). A couple of things struck me--the assertion that a lighter bat increases bat speed, and increased bat speed results in more home runs. If that's the case--and I'm not sure it is--why do players use heavier bats. What advantage do they think they are gaining by it? I recall a couple of cases where a player was advised to use a lighter bat and hitting immediately improved.
Bernadina was one of them.
Thanks, for the quick response! As I suspected; best 8 guys out there, as often as possible= more wins. I'm sure the routine is important to starters, as well...
Again, thanks!
Unkyd, Leyland attributed 30% (I love the precision) of the Tigers' poor hitting to the layoff. I remember reading that it takes at least 30 and maybe 50 at-bats to get the eye and rhythm back when returning from an injury--and it was in-game at-bats against real (opposing) pitchers.
If you think about it, it's really not that stressful to stand in the field for two or three hours unless the weather is horrendous (hot or chilly rain).
However, I do think there are minor illnesses that sap the strength of a team. I remember when several Atlanta players came down with the flu. The guys are in close quarters, and I would not be surprised if more of that goes on than is reported.
If you don't have cable or MLB network apparently you can still watch the game.
Top Prospect Alert @MinorLeagueBlog
Arizona Fall League Rising Star Game is tonight. You can watch live via the Arizona Fall League website http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/afl/index.jsp …
You know, I think that whole layoff thing was a convenient excuse. It's not like it was two weeks. I can see maybe the first game being rusty, maybe two, but all four? No. After an injury I can see 40-50 at bats needed because that's usually counted in weeks not days. But their break was kind of like the all star break. And during the all star break most of the players don't do any baseball related activities. They are pros. It's the post season. Come on now. Some of their pitchers had a super long break and pitched well - not as well as the opposing pitchers, but well. They not only didn't hit well, their defense was suspect and they looked pretty slow out there. They did win their division with the very lowest number of games.
swami, I felt the same way. That's why Leyland's remarks amused me--but they didn't convince me.
Anyone watching the rising stars game? I saw Billy Hamilton play this past summer in 5 games ( managed by ------drumroll please -- Jim Riggleman) and he is more than just a fast guy. He wouldn't be able to steal so many bases if he didn't have the ability to get on base in the first place. The guy can play.
BASEBALL!!
Swami if the Reds don't find a spot for Hamilton they are fools.
Are we west or east? I love baby Nats!!
East. Hmm astros pitcher starting.
Michele- the word electric is overused. You know how minor league baseball is close up and personal? The guy has a kind of energy field around him. You can't take your eyes off him. He has a vibe kind of like Desi, actually- kind of like they are going to levitate out of their shoes any minute now.
Way to go, baby Nat!!!!!!
I love seeing the curly W run around the bases
A few hours away from open business on Free Agents. Let the games begin.
Think Davey is watching ?
If Davey isn't, Rizzo is watching.
Goody with pop -- very nice to see, and agree agree on the Curly W doing the HR trot!
Some from the organization is probably front and center. Wish I was-- it's cold here.
Arrghh- someONE from the Nats
A meme=="traded for Hunter Pence."
Crazy watching all the Free Agent names scrolling at the bottom of the screen. List of exNats. Kearns, NickJ, Nyjer, Rauch, Gomes, Marquis, Schneider,
LeCroy-- refresh my memory?
Add Nady as another FA
Oh, you mean the guy who is getting a World Series ring? That he worked sooooo hard to earn???? ( oozing and dripping sarcasm)
Yes, baseballswami, that one! I wonder if Brian Schneider is close to retirement because I think he only gets a Minor League deal.
Add Todd Coffey and Adam Kennedy to the FA list
@Swam: Matt LeCroy was a veteran catcher at the end of his career when he played here in 2009. He got in 39 games for Frank. Good-hit, no field catcher. Notable for one game at RFK when I think it was the Marlins stole six bases in one inning. Frank had to yank him during the inning. Both player and manager broke into tears after the game over the move. Class act. Paying his minor league managerial dues. Should be a big league manager some day.
Make that 2006 for LeCroy's year here, not '09.
astros i believe and total eight bases.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2006_05_25_houmlb_wasmlb_1
Is anybody here at all interested in signing Jose Valverde as a FA addition to our 'pen?
Considering how he lost it at the end of the season, we could probably get him relatively cheaply.
Anybody think he has anything left in the tank?
Castellanos is another player who started as a an infielder and a 3rd baseman and got moved to the outfield to make a spot for him.
No to Papa Grande. Head case.
BASERUNNING
SB: Ensberg (1, 2nd base off Rauch/LeCroy), Bruntlett 2 (2, 2nd base off Armas/LeCroy, 3rd base off Armas/LeCroy), Taveras (6, 2nd base off Rivera, S/LeCroy), Wilson 2 (5, 2nd base off Armas/LeCroy, 3rd base off Armas/LeCroy), Burke (3, 2nd base off Rivera, S/LeCroy).
FIELDING
E: LeCroy 2 (3, throw, throw).
Wow, that is what I call a BAD day at the office.
Swami. Lecroy.. frank pulled him mid at bat and cried afterwards
It being the Astros, the Nats won the game (8-5)...
No to Papa Grande
Goodwin was robbed.
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