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Gonzalez lost out to the Mets knuckleballer after going 21-8 with a 2.89 ERA in his first season with the Nationals. Gonzalez was acquired by Washington last offseason in a trade with the Oakland Athletics.
Gonzalez represented the Nationals in the All-Star game in 2012, the second appearance of his career. He finished with 207 strikeouts in 199 1/3 innings pitched.
Dickey, 38, went 20-6 this season with a 2.73 ERA across 233 2/3 innings pitched. He struck out 230 batters, had three shutouts, and posted a 1.053 WHIP.
The Nationals had already taken home Rookie of the Year and Manager of the Year on Monday and Tuesday. The National League MVP award will be announced on Thursday night, but no Nationals players are favorites to win.
81 comments:
MZ... You voted for Dickey before Gio?!?
Gio third?! That bites! I'm miffed.
Like I said in the last post. NEXT YEAR, the MLB show will be from Nats Park. Gio will be sitting between Stras and JZ and they will be laughing about who wins.
MicheleS:
Like I said in the last post. NEXT YEAR, the MLB show will be from Nats Park. Gio will be sitting between Stras and JZ and they will be laughing about who wins.
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Like!!!
Gio -- a great season, one for the ages. Thank you for the performance, man.
They still need another [If its Davey he's left-handed] starter ... and I'm not sure its Christian Garcia, Nate Karns, Danny Rosenbaum, John Lannan, Yunesky Maya, Zach Duke, or even Alex Meyer.
Me thinks trade.
Then we'll see what we shall see.
The things I will remember about Gio this year:
Opening Day at Nats park, when we first got to see him pitch.
The home run in Houston (I honestly thought he would do cartwheels around the bases)
The Flop slide into 3b vs the Phillies on the Saturday of Natitude weekend. (And we Thumped the Phillies that day)
Win #20, just awesome to see it!
Aug 31 Complete Game Shutout vs the Cards (And we thumped them too) And the chant in the 9th inning: LETS GO GIO! gave me chills.
Loved when he got ejected sticking up for Det.
His reaction the night the Nats Clinched the NL EAST and how he reached out to the fans from the very beginning.
I am so glad he is on our team. He really kept everyone laughing. The fact that we saw Jordan and Stras smiling was no small feat. Plus we got to see more of the personalities on the team.
I don't know - how do you win 21 games and go to the post season and not get more respect?
Not saying he was DIS-respected, just not given quite enough credit.
Swami, a lot of writers look at all sorts of stats. Gio had less innings than Kershaw/Dickey and he had more walks. If he continues to cut down on his walks he will be in this race for the next several years
number of innings very much hurt him I bet. anyways, dickey deserved it. don't care much where gio ends up after that.
all the picks have been right as far as I am concerned. is that an indicator for tomorrow's picks? will the writers finally get it and give it to trout?
i know michele saw this but check out Stanton's reply to Harper's plea to him (coming over to Nats). smart one.
Faraz, MLB Network is having a show at 9 tonight to debate Trout v Cabrera.
I am really sick of the mvp discussion at this point. I know Cabrera won the triple crown, but that's all offense. Isn't the mvp supposed to have something to do with being a complete player? Offense, defense, base running, base-stealing - not just offense. I think the old-school people are just wowed by that triple crown. It's a great accomplishment, but it's very one-dimensional.
The face-plant was also memorable, although it scared me at the time. Love ya, Gio!
The things I will remember about Gio this year
Oh, and beat writers dig the knuckleball. :-)
At least Gio made it on 31 of the 32 ballots. Only writer who didn't vote for him was Derrick Goold from the St.Louis Post Dispatch. (Dickey-Kershaw-Cueto-Lohse!??!-Kimbrel)
Just one more reason to love all things related to St. Louis .......
Goold tries to defend his exclusion of Gio. Of course, nowhere does he mention the fact that Lohse pitched against weaker competition in the Central Division.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/explaining-my-nl-cy-young-ballot/article_c7b373de-3d3a-53d3-9ba5-bfabc05648bd.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
What planet is Derrick Goold reporting from? A 21-game winner leads a team out of nowhere to the division title and he's NOT one of the five-best pitchers in the league?
I'm surprised the guy didn't have Adam Freaking Wainwright ("WAIN...WRIGHT...WAIN...WRIGHT.." I'll never forget that chant in Game 5) on his ballot.
Freakin' homer.
Oh my 1A.. that memory of the Face Plant was PRICELESS. I nearly puked when Gio fell, i was terrified that he hurt himself. Of Course the only thing he hurt was his pride. Love the guy!
I see it as Gio got nominated. First one of our guys to be nominated.
And WOW that face plant was hilarious. After a few seconds, that is. I love him, too.
MicheleS and 1A said it all. Gio gave us some of the best moments of the year. He became an instant fan favorite with his smile and his intensity, not to mention his curve ball.
Being the #3 pitcher in the league is a pretty good place to start with a mew team. Gio and Stras will be battling for Cy Youngs for years to come.
GI-O!
I truly think that Gio had a personal effect on our clubhouse. So many of the Nats are serious, quiet guys . His joyousness seemed to be contagious from the start. Even JZim and Stras seem more relaxed and they are two intense guys. Talk about intangibles!
Hardball Talk @HardballTalk
Brandon Beachy playing catch comfortably from 90 feet, aiming to return around mid-June http://dlvr.it/2Tp5N7 #mlb #hbt
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Didn't realize the Braves were without him for that long after his TJ surgery.
We was robbed!!!!
It's OK Gio--there's a few million fans between D.C. and Oakland that think you're the best!!!
I love Gio, but Dickey deserved the Cy Young. He was phenomenal. And remember he also pitched a no hitter that was nullified by a blown call. I would love it if we could somehow pick Dickey up in a trade. I think our pitching staff would just be legendary. What a great way to send Davey off into the sunset.
Gio was not robbed - numbers just didn't add up when compared to the other two. Still, he was great for us and its an honor to be in the top three. I expect a National in this group for the next three or four years and can only dream there might be two.
I still remember all the screaming and yelling when Rizzo pulled this trade off. Milone had a nice season but the reality is, we would not have been in the playoffs without Gio.
Waiting to see what that one big move will be this year.
Go Nats!!
I too think that Dickey should have won the Cy Young.
While Gio's season was marvelous, Cy Young award winners should be near great most every time out. There were several games this season that Gio's control got so bad I couldn't watch the game.
Besides, I think he's probably the third best starter on the team.
Regarding that 5th spot in the rotation, I have a feeling that Rizzo is going to be all-in for 2013 and may get more "blockbusterish" to get to the World Series now.
He might trade for a number-one or two starter. He could put together a package and get another Gio. The team could afford to give up Alex Meyer, Nate Karns, maybe Brian Godwin and someone else for a Gio II.
I'm assuming that LaRoche re-signs and Morse remains in left. The team really doesn't need their position prospects and if they find that 5th starter, none of their pitching prospects has a chance of making the roster for several years.
Might as well trade some of them away, fill the few holes we have and make the team's World Series window stay open for a little longer.
Farid @ Idaho
So I assume everyones forgiven Gio for his comments after game 5? I was shocked and disappointed because it was the first time he ever said anything revolved around himself like that.
Unrelated, but has been an ongoing theme the last few posts. As a person who experienced the Expos saga unfold, this link:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/42760/theres-shrewd-theres-genius-then-theres-marlins-owner-jeffrey-loria
Well written, true, and makes one wonder when MLB realizes when the organization needs an overhaul.
My two cents. Talk about play the game....
Clip&Store, I don't take much stock in what was said only a few days after #5, lets face it, the wound was still fresh. Can't hold that against anyone.
And from Amanda: Got to love what even a reliever is saying after Marlins Trade
Great article DWS ... thx ... best summary of the whole thing I've seen yet.
True, I have not forgotten it. I won't be surprised if he makes up for it somehow before the next season.
Nice write-up by Amanda. She should have mentioned Stanton's reply to Harper's tweet. How did she miss LoMo's tweets? anyways, fun stuff.
Good thing that no one is taking anyone lightly except Jimmy Rollins of course.
Hope MVP awards go to deserved candidates.
MicheleS said...
Clip&Store, I don't take much stock in what was said only a few days after #5, lets face it, the wound was still fresh. Can't hold that against anyone.
November 15, 2012 7:38 AM
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Between Davey's and Gio's post-game words, there will either be those that take it personally or take it as constructive.
Gio needs to turn the mirror around and look at himself too. Even Davey said in one of his radio interviews that the playoff experience was good for Gio.
I hope Gio is taking his time working on another pitch that he can go to when his curveball isn't working. When Gio's amp'd he just can't get his curveball dancing like he needs to as his curveball is a "touch pitch" and he throws it for strikes when he is relaxed and not amp'd up.
When he doesn't have the curve then he's relying solely on his fastball and his pitch count mounts as he seemingly is getting to full counts on too many batters as he is nibbling in the strike zone.
That has been Gio's biggest problem.
Typical headline - Gio falls short. How about Gio Gonzalez was voted the third best pitcher in the National League? Out of how many pitchers eligible? Kind of makes a success sound like a failure, which it is not. Especially considering that he was generally thought of as a number 2 by outsiders.
Swami, honestly no one here thinks it was a failure. the title may be misleading I suppose.
baseballswami, Top 3. You should've read the Reds fans crowing after their guy Cueto didn't make the Top 3.
Times have changed from what I read as the Press saw Dickey's knuckler as a legit pitch vs decades of the Press looking at it as a carnival sideshow.
I'm confident that Gio will come back this year with new dedication and maybe a new pitch. It's easy to forget how young he is and how much better he is likely to get.
Baseballswami, I totally agree with you - poorly chosen headline. Gio, thanks much, I enjoyed watching you pitch this year, great for the team and great for the fans. Dickey and Kershaw are terrific company to be with.
Going totally off topic here.
AL MVP really has two great choices. Do you pick the guy who won the triple crown, or do you go with advanced numbers and pick the guy who had a 10+ WAR (only the 5th outfielder to have that high a number and the other 4 were Ruth, Mantle, Mays and Yaz).
I am picking Cabrera. RBI's to me relate to wins plus the fact he moved back to 3rd to make room for Fielder and while he is no Zimm I did not hear any complaints from him as he helped his team. Both picks are wins here but it will be interesting to see how the writers chose.
How great would it be to have a horse in this race next year!! (along with the Cy Young & Manager of the Year), and while Natsjack doesn't think its possible, let me dream and have Rendon in the Rookie of the Year catagory as well.
Go Nats!!
This is the second time I've seen Rendon mentioned for ROY... you guys must see a different team because I don't see a position for him next year barring injury.
baseballswami said...
"Typical headline - Gio falls short. How about Gio Gonzalez was voted the third best pitcher in the National League? Out of how many pitchers eligible? Kind of makes a success sound like a failure, which it is not. Especially considering that he was generally thought of as a number 2 by outsiders."
Take it easy. Gio finishing in the top 3 was not news; we've known he was a finalist for a while now. So reporting that he was voted third best wouldn't be reporting at all, just spinning.
Not everything is an insult or a slight. Gio was great this year. Two guys were probably a little better. Good for them, and good for Gio. Nobody was robbed. And Mark's not insulting Gio by saying he "fell short" of winning the Cy Young, because he did.
The writers credit says CHASE HUGHES
sjm308:
I agree, two great MVP choices in the AL. Both deserving. It's really advanced metrics vs. the ol' tried and true. I think triple crown wins but I think the tide is turning. With this same situation three years from now I suspect it would go to Trout.
I like your enthusiasm for a Cy Young and Manager of the Year next year but Davey has no chance. The Nats will be favored to win the NL East. He would have to orchestrate a 110-win season to beat out some manager that drags some team picked to have losing season to the playoffs. E.g., Showalter and Melvin. And even that might not be enough!
http://bbwaa.com/12-nl-cy/
I see Lohse got votes and Hamels got a vote but JZim didn't.
Mark Schmetzer of the Reds Report in Cincy voted for Hamels.
SCNatsFan said...
This is the second time I've seen Rendon mentioned for ROY... you guys must see a different team because I don't see a position for him next year barring injury.
November 15, 2012 9:01 AM
Yah, its a stretch. I've always said if you can hit and play average defense they will find a place for you.
While I'm not in agreement with Peric with Rendon starting at 3rd on Opening Day with Zim on 1st, I wouldn't be surprised like I have written to see Rendon starting in the Minors at a new position to start the season at either 2nd or LF. Both Espi and Lombo have options and it wouldn't be out of the question to see a change in June but I think that could also be a stretch and assumes that either Espi or Lombo is stumbling.
Also interesting 2 voters for the ROY from the same Cincy news organization. One votes Frazier 1st and the other votes Harper 1st and Frazier 3rd. I applaud Tom Groeschen!
John Erardi Cincinnati Enquirer
1. Frazier 2. Harper 3. Miley
Tom Groeschen Cincinnati Enquirer
1. Harper 2. Miley 3. Frazier
I really should let my coffee kick in before posting. Edited for clarity. Again. :-)
What she said. As well, I recall seeing Gio's comments, but not the lead in from reporter(s) that elicited those comments.
On a related note, for those who say that Mark is a homer (and I am not one who does), did you notice his first-place pick? ;-)
Not surprised that Dickey won but I was disappointed in the portion of the MLB Network Cy Young program that I watched, because they didn't even mention Gio (maybe I missed that part).
MicheleS said...
Clip&Store, I don't take much stock in what was said only a few days after #5, lets face it, the wound was still fresh. Can't hold that against anyone.
November 15, 2012 7:38 AM
Just throwing this out there...what if the Nats signed Dickey out from under the Mets in the offseason?
Aaaaand I just read the Mets exercised their club option. So much for that pipe dream. :)
I'll take the 21 wins over all the other stuff. Mere window dressing. . .
Gonat said...
I hope Gio is taking his time working on another pitch that he can go to when his curveball isn't working. When Gio's amp'd he just can't get his curveball dancing like he needs to as his curveball is a "touch pitch" and he throws it for strikes when he is relaxed and not amp'd up.
When he doesn't have the curve then he's relying solely on his fastball and his pitch count mounts as he seemingly is getting to full counts on too many batters as he is nibbling in the strike zone.
That has been Gio's biggest problem.
November 15, 2012 8:06 AM
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?month=10&day=12&year=2012&game=gid_2012_10_12_slnmlb_wasmlb_1%2F&pitchSel=461829&prevGame=gid_2012_10_12_slnmlb_wasmlb_1%2F&prevDate=1012
Gio Gonzalez does throw a changeup. In Game 5 of the playoffs Gio threw 1 changeup. Normally he throws 6% to 10% of his pitches are changeups and his changeup is his #1 strike pitch. Not sure why he wasn't throwing it.
3 earned runs in Game 5 with 4 walks wasn't a good outing. There's no positive spin to put on it.
Gio throws a 4 seam fastball, a 2 seam fastball, a changeup, and a knee buckling curveball.
When he loses the touch on the curveball, that's when the day gets long like his 115 pitch game against Cincinatti in his 5 innings averaging 23 pitches an inning.
If you saw in the 4th and 5th innings of Game 5 that the Cardinals batters were taking a lot of pitches and I believe that was part of McGwire's strategy. Gio didn't try to attack the strike zone. I still believe that if Gio could add a good slider to his arsenal, he would be unhittable.
3on:
Never say never about Davey's chances. Look at what the voters would be looking at. This is assuming we go even further next year but also realizing that the votes go in BEFORE the playoffs.
Lets just say we have the best team in Baseball for two years in a row. Its Davey's last year. He is the oldest manager (again). And in my fantasy, we lead the NL East from day one. How could the writers not vote for him?? Also wonder if any manager has won the award two years in a row. Off to find out.
As for Rendon, again, this is a huge reach but did we all think that Harper would provide such an impact? I am not calling for the Zimm to first move or for an injury to Desmond or Espinosa but you just never know.
Go Nats!!
OK:
Back with the answer to winning Manager of the Year two years in a row.
First, Sporting News had this award back in the 30's. BBWAA did not start until the 80's. Sporting news gave just one award until 86 when they switched to one for each league mirroring BBWAA.
1. Billy Southworth 1941 & 1942 St. Louis Cards
2. Bobby Cox - 2002,03,04 & 05. Atl. Braves
pretty short list for Davey to reach but it could happen.
Go Nats!!
Davey made one really telling comment on one of the radio interviews yesterday about Storen and I paraphrase that he said Storen didn't pitch to contact.
Davey has his theories on hitting and pitching and we all know McCatty's famous words "Strikeouts are bulls***". Could Davey feel the same way?
I know Rizzo likes strikeouts. I know Rizzo likes power pitchers. I am thinking that Davey likes smart outs.
baseballswami said...
"I truly think that Gio had a personal effect on our clubhouse. So many of the Nats are serious, quiet guys . His joyousness seemed to be contagious from the start. Even JZim and Stras seem more relaxed and they are two intense guys. Talk about intangibles!"
Yes! And Det seemed more relaxed on the mound and smiled alot more this season. Maybe influenced by Gio. Some pitchers alter their personalty on the day they pitch, pretending to be surly. Gio is mature enough to just be himself. I like rooting for people I can admire and the Nats have plenty like that.
sjm, I got to Viera early last Spring Training to see Harp, Rendon, and Purke.
3 special players. Rendon is special but in a different way than Harper. Rendon will be more of a gap to gap hitter but doesn't have nearly the explosion that Harper has. If Rendon stays within himself, he will be a high BA and OBP hitter and the HRs will come but not in big numbers.
What Harp and Rendon share is that great ability to center the ball on the bat barrel.
I think Davey should have a chance at MOY in 2013. Yes, the talent level is high, and the expectations are high. But you still have to manage. Every team will put their best gameface on for the Nats.
When you sign a free agent, you are basically paying for the first year, and accepting "decline" and overpay in subsequent years. So, Davey wants LaRoche, and he doesn't really care if in year 2 and 3 LaRoche blocks other players. He's in it for 2013, as he should be.
Rizzo knows the Nats have pretty good odds to make the playoffs, and the question is--for him, not for Davey--is the risk of problems in 2014 and 2015 worth the benefit of having LaRoche on the 2013 team? I think it is. It would be hard for the stars to align better than this year: Mets in financial trouble; Marlins gonna lose 100 games; Phillies aging, and even if they get BOTH Uptons, they still have problems. That leaves Atlanta, and they have not shown how they are going to replace Chipper, etc.
Davey has shown he can manage past substantial injuries and big egos. He can be creative, e.g., he shoves Lombo into LF, he demands and utilizes a strong bench so that every player feels and is part of the team. I hope Rizzo gives Davey what he wants and worries about 2014 in 2014.
There are reasons that Detwiler "seemed more relaxed on the mound and smiled a lot more this season" other than the Gonzalez "joyousness." For one, from early July on, he didn't have to worry about losing his spot in the rotation. For another, due to refinements of his technique and an adjustment in his approach -- to heavy reliance on his FB -- he pitched way beyond what he had ever done before.
Not to say that Gonzalez wasn't a positive influence but what really made Detwiler and the rest of us happy was that he had command of and was able to rely on his FB for, on some days, 90 percent of his pitches.
Attention should be paid to what Price said was the key to his CYA season: "Fastball command." (Also remarked on by the MLB Tonight commentators.) The ability to paint corners with his FB made his slider, when he threw it, devastating.
That's essentially how Detwiler was able to be so much better than people were willing to predict at the beginning of the season. The ability -- and willingness -- to throw the FB for strikes made his curveball, which is very good, all the more effective on the selective occasions when he threw it. Detwiler tops out at 95-96 mph a few times a game, one or two mph less than Price. If he ever gets command of another breaking pitch, the results will be comparable.
(My memory may be selective but I don't recall many of the deep count ABs that broke down Gonzalez, Zimmermann and Jackson.)
NatsLady, good analysis on the NL East and I will add that the Nats are young and the natural curve of improvement through experience actually benefits the Nats given the youth with the exception of Werth and LaRoche and neutral on RZim.
RZim and Morse should improve based on health and I think health is the key here.
Is it Opening Day yet?
Theophilus T. S. said...
Attention should be paid to what Price said was the key to his CYA season: "Fastball command." (Also remarked on by the MLB Tonight commentators.) The ability to paint corners with his FB made his slider, when he threw it, devastating.
Good reading and it goes right to my point at 10:38 that Gio would be unhittable with a slider as he doesn't throw one and fastball pitchers benefit from a slider. When Gio has his curveball working, its a different story but that extra pitch would not only make him a better pitcher, I believe would keep his pitch count down. I have preached this point most of the year.
You are also correct on Detwiler. That start he made the 3rd week of July was like a new pitcher. Detwiler even said that while he was back in the bullpen he observed what the other starters were doing. Detwiler also has excellent movement on his fastballs and was very effective on his 2 seam where it breaks enough to call it a sinker. Add to that a slider and he started to pitch to contact and it lowered his pitch count and he didn't have to overthrow pitches to keep up his Velo rather throwing the same and letting the natural drop Velo happen rather than forcing it. In the past, Det overbaked his fastball as his get got tired and the net effect was a flatter pitch. The reason Det was so effective early in his outings is movement with the Velo.
Very happy for Detwiler and I expect him to get to a new level in 2013.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=0&year=2012&month=5&day=19&pitchSel=477132.xml&game=gid_2012_05_19_slnmlb_lanmlb_1%2f&prevGame=gid_2012_05_19_slnmlb_lanmlb_1%2f
This is Kershaw's chart of one of his complete game shutouts. This happened to be against the St Louis Cardinals.
Fastball, Slider, Curveball, Changeup
Kershaw is also a lefty. He had a 2.53 ERA and was last years Cy Young.
David Price throws a 2 seam, 4 seam, slider, cutter, and a curveball. Price throws his cutter which is like an off-speed as it is 7 MPH slower than his fastball.
Ryan Perry has been named the starter of the Arizona Fall League Championship game!
Ghost.. 94 Days until Pitchers & Catchers and about 124 days until I hit spring training this year. It can't come fast enough.
MicheleS, 2 1/2 weeks until the Winter Meetings. Its January that is the worst part of the year in baseball. Davey will be in South Africa and most of the players will start their pre-Spring Training workouts.
I'm sure we will find something to get excited about the next 94 days.
While everyone is busy talking about AL MVP candidates, I hope Posey does not get robbed of his trophy tonight. Having Chase Headley on the ballot could complicate things for him I suppose.
Ghost, I am hoping January is the Nats Winter Fest. THEY BETTER HAVE ONE THIS YEAR!
Maryanne Lannan @m_lannimal
Operation load the truck complete #sandyrelief. Thanks to the MLB wives & families for the overwhelming generosity! pic.twitter.com/g4hDp3rj
sjm:
Thanks for the research. I was shooting from the hip and thinking it would be impossible to win two years in a row. Shows how much I know! Cox won it 4 years in a row? Damn!!
The Lannan's are good people.
MicheleS, the baseball winter doldrums is why most teams do a mid-January FanFest.
Feffer is busy on a new marketing campaign to one up Natitude. "Natitude with Attitude" "Davey's Unfinished Business" "Party Affiliation in NatsTown"
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/this-week-in-hot-stove-picture-edition/
Ghost, Feffer better have a fan fest planned. The frickin O's announced theirs already.
ghost-- The Hunt for Red October?
NatsLady, that is good!
Dont forget that big goofy smile when he got his first hit.
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