Mike Rizzo insisted all along it would be "very difficult" to trade Drew Storen, unless the Nationals received an overwhelming return for the 23-year-old closer.
The Nationals general manager stayed true to his word as the clock ticked down to Sunday's 4 p.m. trade deadline, refusing to pull off a blockbuster deal with the Twins that would have sent Storen (and probably others) to Minnesota in exchange for center fielder Denard Span (and possible others).A frantic 72-hour countdown to the non-waiver deadline reached its conclusion Sunday afternoon without the Nationals completing any more moves. Not that Rizzo wasn't working furiously to try to get something done.
The Nationals and Twins had been in discussions for days about a Storen-Span swap. The sticking point, according to sources familiar with the discussions: Twins GM Bill Smith wanted more players in addition to Storen included in the trade, while Rizzo was willing to deal the 23-year-old closer only if he got more than Span in return.
"We felt we couldn't come to a deal that we were getting back enough for what we were giving up," Rizzo said. "The quality of players, the youth of the players, the control of the players, the contract of the players ... it wasn't enough in return for us to be satisfied to make the
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73 comments:
Thank goodness.
4:05 PM...MASN showers Storen warming up for the 9th...beautiful sight...
Thank goodness is right.
Was it fun to cover this, Mark, or nerve wracking?
Big fail for Rizzo. Wanted an ace this winter. Failed. Wanted a CF. Failed. Now we get to see Ankiel, bixler and bernadina in center and leading off. That's why team like Phillies and Braves are winners because when they need something they get it.
In my opinion, this was the right non-move to make.
JaneB said...
Thank goodness is right. Was it fun to cover this, Mark, or nerve wracking?
Nerve-wracking. I hate the trade deadline, for 2 reasons: 1) Even though you want to feel confident in what you're seeing and hearing yourself, you can't help but give credence to all the tweets being thrown around by national writers (though many of them turn out to be completely wrong). 2) It's incredibly awkward to be in the clubhouse during these last few days. Have to remember this is these guys' lives we're talking about, and they have no idea where they're going, or if they're going anywhere, as all these rumors start flying around. I truly feel for these guys during these situations and try to be as respectful of them as I can.
Good non-move. I understand the need but the price was too high for what they were getting. It's not like they need help right now to make a pennant run. Let's see how the OF shakes out next year, when Harper may be ready by midseason and LaRoche may be back at 1B. The team's hitting problems go way beyond leadoff. If they can get Werth hitting next year, keep Zimmerman and LaRoche healthy, the leadoff issue may not be so acute. The more interesting question, which this trade would not have answered, is what they are going to do with Lombardozzi. They need that bat in the lineup and that means maybe trying him in the outfield at least until they can decide he can hit major league pitching. If he can, then they can deal Desmond or (less likely) Espinosa from a position of strength.
I am breathing a sigh of relief. I am happy that Rizzo did not make a deal just to make a deal. Yes, the Nats need a center fielder and a leadoff man but not at the cost of one of their brightest stars. Top Closers are hard to come by and the lack of one just kills a team.
So thank you Mike Rizzo!
No deal is a good deal. What's the rush? It's not like we need a CF for the playoff push. MN is in the same boat.
So happy Drew is staying. Don't blow up the bullpen.. one of the bright spots on this team. Bullpen's are usually where games are won or lost.
big mistake. After terrific first half and starting to build a fan base, if we go back to the old Nats in second half we could be back to watching games with 10,000 of our friends. The smart business decision is to punch up this offense both to support the pitching and keep fans' interest. Now we risk going back to down 4 runs in the 3rd for rest of season and, once again, I have trouble filling my season ticket pool.
@Exporemains
Our minor league system is slowing being refilled, and soon some will be blocked and able to be used to acquire top players.
You of all know how this organization was gutted and what is being required to reload.
But better not to set a number of critical postions back, to get one player.
A couple of independent thoughts:
-- This strikes me as just about right in terms of both approach and result. Each team knew its wants/needs and the value/potential of its own player. The Twins -- properly -- valued Span highly and accepted the 'rule' that you don't trade a valuable position player straight-up for a reliever. They wanted more. The Nats -- properly -- saw both the questions about Span's health and Storen's potential as calling for the Twins to include someone else. Both sides walked away when the other side wouldn't budge -- neither felt compelled to make a move with which they weren't fully comfortable.
-- I wonder, however, whether a seed hasn't been planted that could bloom in the offseason. If Span returns to the roster and plays well, showing no lasting effects from the concussion, then the Nats' questions about him might be resolved. If Storen continues to perform well, then the Twins might up their estimation of him. Both sides will keep an eye on the guy they almost got. Both sides will test the free agent market. But if neither finds their answer among the free agents, might the two GMs reconnect and strike a one-for-one deal? Or a larger deal with Span and Storen at the center? These kinds of flirtations don't always produce results immediately, but can sometimes be rekindled in the future.
Good to see Storen staying but the Nats/Expos have only had 2 okay seasons from a CF in the last 14 years and both those guys were minus defenders. I would have done Storen for Span straight up and added Bernie if necessary, but I applaud Rizzo for not budging from there.
DJ:
I know the minor league system is not great but i think that we could of come up with the package the braves came up with for bourn. and now storen gives up a homer. wow!
Wow. of course that homer had to happen.
you're right Baloney. No good center fielder lead of was a problem with expos.Remember peter bergeron..
Good non-deal. I also wonder if Capps deal not working out fully for the Twins last year was motivation to ask for more to "balance out" Nats getting Ramos in the deal. Separating Clip and Drew at this point in their careers is a big mistake.
Thank goodness? Are you kidding me? Storen is grossly overrated. Grossly. Four blown saves -- 3 on homeruns. ERA nearing 3.00 -- for a closer? I dont think so. They are going to regret this non-deal -- very much. Storen is a wuss.
Agree w eugene - theconcussion is the reason not to have gone too hard for span. If you know hes healthy, then he is worth acloser plus more, but with the health question that becomes ahuge gamble.
@ExposRemains I looked through the years and we got a decent year from Wilkerson and a good year from Rondell White. I can't even remember Manny Martinez but apparently he started in CF for an entire year. An no, I will never forget Peter Bergeron and his .280 OBP.
If rizzo had done the storen deal throwing in Lambardozzi, well ... I would think Rizzo had lost his ever loving mind. Good non-deal. Although, Storen's not looking so hot since the all-star break.
@baloney
maybe thats why I would of traded storen because Ive seen a lot of closers since Drissom-deshields.
would HAVE
it's a verb.
Look out everybody... the language Nazi is in the house.
...and "Storen" should be capitalized. We have ways of making you capitalize it.
Hey english language when did this blog become the grammar blog? If you want we can do this in french..and the fact that you're hiding behind this anonymous name shows me that you know that it's a crappy thing to say.
Who is actually our prototype closer right now in the organization? We are just faking it with Storen. We need a fireballer who actually can strike people out swinging + fool them with a secondary pitch. Are any of our minor league arms projecting to that type? On a good team Storen should settle into a nice 6th or 7th inning type reliever unless he develops another out pitch. I do agree with not trading him pus other pieces now for Span though. We should try to settle the leadoff problem with a middle infielder.
If anyone other than Morse or Zimm could hit consistently that would solve alot of other problems.
I'm with Rizzo on this move. Glad he walked away. Not werth Storen and Lombardozzi. Ooops, I mispelled werth! Heh, heh, heh...
Maybe Jhonathan Solano can lead off. He plays in the middle, just not in the infield but he IS the favorite of our most notable Anonymous.
We are not from France.
Exposremains said...
Hey english language when did this blog become the grammar blog? If you want we can do this in french..and the fact that you're hiding behind this anonymous name shows me that you know that it's a crappy thing to say.
July 31, 2011 5:05 PM
maybe this is being discussed on on of Mark's various leads today but we just won a series with a divison foe!!
We have played two nice games in a row, would have loved to see Storen save them both but I will take the win.
Nice to see Zimmermann back to his dominant self.
I like Mr. E.Oregon more and more and feel he might be correct that a trade in the off season might just be the way we go. It certainly won't be in free agency because none of those guys excite me.
Another nice crowd today, not sure it means anything but we drew 30, 30 and 25 the last three games.
Is Werth slowly but surely coming around? He nailed that double late in the game after two strikeouts. We actually have three pretty decent hitters with Zimm, Morse and Werth and I like Desmond in the 2 hole as well. I think we will still get to 75 wins and that to me will be a nice improvement for 3 straight years. We are not a complete team yet but after what MLB and then Bowden did I think we have to be happy with the direction we are going.
Go Nats
not french by the way, if you can't open yourself to other cultures you will have a very limited lonely life. Judging from your comments sounds like that describes you very well.
See, now, that's why Mark and this blog both rock.
Mark Zuckerman said...
JaneB said...
Thank goodness is right. Was it fun to cover this, Mark, or nerve wracking?
Nerve-wracking. I hate the trade deadline, for 2 reasons: 1) Even though you want to feel confident in what you're seeing and hearing yourself, you can't help but give credence to all the tweets being thrown around by national writers (though many of them turn out to be completely wrong). 2) It's incredibly awkward to be in the clubhouse during these last few days. Have to remember this is these guys' lives we're talking about, and they have no idea where they're going, or if they're going anywhere, as all these rumors start flying around. I truly feel for these guys during these situations and try to be as respectful of them as I can.
July 31, 2011 4:15 PM
Oh, and yay for the deadline passing and Clip and Store remaining.
sjm308...I posted yesterday basicly saying the same thing. I felt our pitching had fallen off but would be refreshed with a couple of new arms from the system and that Werth would start improving and that the defense would return.
I'm stll holding on to a 79 - 83 season which would be pretty impressive in the National Leqague East.
"Ooops, I mispelled werth! Heh, heh, heh..."
We know where you live!
I like Eugene's take too. We'll see if they resurrect it in the offseason.
Also, great to see JZimm get back in form. Interestingly, Davey said after JZ's last start that he felt too much time between starts was hurting JZ; looks like he was right, at least for this start. He looked very sharp, from what I saw, and the terrible balls/strikes by the ump added significantly to his pitch count. And the Mets, despite all their negative publicity, are second in the NL in batting.
And it looks like Detwiler gets a start later this week. It may be that Steve M is right that his best role is reliever, but I See no reason not to give him a few starts the rest of the way. Maybe Davey can work some magic with him and channel Sid Fernandez.
To see the divergent views in Natstown about the potential trade today was fascinating. I was mostly following and participating in the Twitter conversation about it, and was amazed at how many people were dreading Storen being traded because of how likeable he is. To me, he's a good reliever, and frankly, that's not worth that much. He's certainly not Mariano Rivera or Goose Gossage. He's 8th in the NL in saves. He has 4 blown saves, including today. That doesn't make him bad or a "wuss" as someone very unfairly put it here. It certainly doesn't make him Gascanrahan (who is a cautionary note for claiming too much certainty about a reliever's talent). But it does make him NOT untouchable.
I honestly don't know how serious Span's injury is, and I don't have a lot of confidence in Rizzo and his team to figure that out -- see Marquis, J., LaRoche, A, et al. But leaving that unknown aside, the deal made alot of sense, given Span's youth, controlability, and potential, even if we had to throw in Bernandina. Beyond that, not sure. Lombardozzi seems like our insurance policy against Desi continuing to not rise to his potential so I'm glad we held on to him.
At the end of the day, I want to see the Nats making moves to improve, not resting on their (nonexistent) laurels just to keep popular players. Even if Storen turns out to be a great closer for the next five years (which is far from assured, see Cordero, C.), having a good closer isn't worth much if you're only in a position to win 75-80 games.
sect 222
Couldn't have said it better
Whew....that's a relief!
I thought that the ambulance going down the street was heading to Minnesota to pick up Span, and Stor had been traded!
I guess Rizzo can go back to checking the MLB DL list to see who might be available.
If only Bixler could hit.
Wow, some people are really touchy.
Excuuuuuuuuuse me.
Mark Z...thanks for answering the question about what it's like to cover this trade stuff. And...what do I know?...I can't imagine that "national press" knows more about the Nats thank you do. And none of them write like you do, either.
Sec222... No one went for Span. It really seems like every club had concerns about the post-concussion production they would see as he continues to recover. Its too risky, till he is playing and producing again in the Bigs.
I'm partial to Storen not just because he's a nice guy, but because he is good -- especially on days when his professional life isn't hanging in the balance. I like that we found him, signed him, brought him up. I like the prospect of the ball leaving Strasburg's hands for his. I like his cool.
Span, prior to the injury, probably would have been worth Storen and more. Post injury Span made lots of teams nervous.
The best reason for caution about acquiring Span at this time -- two words: Justin Morneau.
So, a nice win in the books, take the series from the Mets. JZimm looked great, RZim hitting again, Werth coming around. Some feel good stuff there, for sure.
And then there is this tweet:
stras37: Started the packing process gettin close to kissing Florida goodbye! #longsummer 5 minutes ago
I'm with JaneB re. the national press vs. our local beat writer.
fwiw, I don't do twitter so I'm not biased towards Storen because he tweets or because he's a nice kid, although he does seem to be. Like JaneB, I like that we drafted and developed him. I like that he signed with us right away and that he has a Cordero connection. Overall, I feel pretty comfortable when he takes the mound, although I do also realize that the effectiveness of relievers over the long term can be ephemeral.
I also think that the post-concussion status of Span made teams nervous (and it made me nervous). Given that, the deal didn't make sense to me, particularly if more Nats players were to be added. Sure, the deal might have made sense to me had the concussion never occurred, but the reality of it is that it did occur and the concern does exist, so to evaluate the trade as though there is no medical concern is an exercise in fantasy, imho. (I guess that means I'd make a really bad fantasy GM. ;-))
FWIW, here is how Jim Bowden rated the three trades:
Gomes Nationals C+
Cincinnati D-
Jerry Hairston, Jr. Nationals B
Milwaukee C+
Marquis Nationals B+
Arizona B
He didn't rate the Span/Storen non-deal, as far as I can see.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6786320/2011-trade-scorecard
Jim Bowden's ratings, F ;-)
In fairness, I can't give him an F on his ratings. That said, is there a grade for "I don't give a rat's patoot what he thinks"?
Here, for those who are not on twitter, from Drew Storen:
Thanks to everyone for the twitter love and ovation today Means a lot. Real pumped to still be here in DC.
1 hour ago via Twittelator
@ Jim in MD:
Morneau reportedly was the other player mentioned in the deal. Rizzo held out for the treating neurologist in the deal, and the Twins backed off.
yo heinie...
Heinrich Himmler said...
"Ooops, I mispelled werth! Heh, heh, heh
Wie haben sie vergessen? Werth auf deutsch bedeutet worth auf english. Und man schriebt es derselbe Weg.
Try typing THAT around auto spell
Non troppo facile, e vero
Awww, that's sweet, NatsLady. Thanks for sharing.
Bitte nicht stören, Waddu. ;-)
Good one, NatStat. Another possibly would have been a PTBNL who had stayed at a Holiday Inn.
So glad to see Clip and Store both here in DC - I think Storen especially is a mighty impressive young man.(Although Clip is too, really) It remains to be seen how things work out with Storen in the next couple of years because he so young now. Most closers are more of the Jon Rauch/Matt Capps variety and are closer to the end of their careers. It seems like only now - Feliz in Texas, Venters in Atlanta - that we are starting to see young pitchers start out as closers. I think this may be an exciting new trend in baseball.I also think that some of the philosophy on trading relievers comes from closers being pitchers who can't start anymore and are older. Storen just seems like a high-quality, high-talent young man who actually wants to help build this organization. Sometimes when I hear him do an interview I just can't believe he is only 23. If this pitching thing doesn't work out I think he will have a job on MLB network!
I'm pleased that Rizzo did not deal Storen for Span, but how in the world were the Nats discussing Storen when the Braves got Michael Bourn for junk?
Look who the Braves gave up:
* OF Jordan Schafer -- career average of .223
* Juan Abreu, a 26 year-old AAA reliever signed as a minor league free agent in 2009
* Paul Clemens, a 7th round 2008 pick who has a 3.73 ERA at AA
* Brett Oberholtzer, an 8th round 2008 pick who has a 3.74 ERA at AA.
Other than Schafer, a 3rd rounder in 2005, they didn't give up anyone they drafted in the first six rounds!
The Nationals couldn't beat that offer for Michael Bourn? Are you kidding me?
MicheleS said... So happy Drew is staying. Don't blow up the bullpen.. one of the bright spots on this team. Bullpen's are usually where games are won or lost. July 31, 2011 4:21 PM
Your last sentence is so true on this team. Think of all the one run games the Kardiac Kids have had including today.
Making this trade now made little sense. Smith wanted top trade value of MLB quality players for Span who still doesn't look ready.
Unfortunately, the bullpen only has 3 guys you can count on and you saw them in the Saturday night game.
While Storen isn't Mariano Rivera, there is nobody in the Nats system that could take his place for the remaining 2 months except moving Clippard to closer and then Detwiler to 8th inning setup and then you still have a hole.
Best to make this an off-season priority and then you hopefully see how Span recovers.
The top closers like Rafael Soriano were hot commodities last year and Storen and Clippard's value cant be understated.
After the heat he got from the jeers of fellow GMs talking about his "desperation", Rizzo had to change his modus operandi. Just for that alone, glad he held firm. He couldn't look like a desperate newbie on the block. He has to start looking like the GMs that drew praise from Tim Kurkjian like Ruben Amaro, Brian Sabean, and Chris Antonetti.
Losers were Ed Wade of the Astros and Jon Daniels of the Rangers.
Rizzo fell in the middle. I think he did well on Komatsu for Hairston and probably should have held out for more on Marquis. Coffey sealed his fate in his last 12 starts with 10 earned runs and going from an ERA on June 1st of 1.69 to 3.92 at the trade deadline.
Drew8 said...
I'm pleased that Rizzo did not deal Storen for Span, but how in the world were the Nats discussing Storen when the Braves got Michael Bourn for junk?
Great point, a real surprise. Ed Wade did a bad job. Went for quantity over quality with low salary guys and Minor Leaguers on his trades of Pence and Bourn. Looked like a salary dump and surprised the Nats couldn't beat that Bourn deal like you said those player aren't going anywhere except Schafer. The Nats could have put together Bernadina, Mock, JD Martin and Burnett (LOL) to beat that deal.
Bourn will most likely be a Type A Free Agent next year so the Braves will get 2 Comp picks so it was a great move.
I am most impressed that everyone said NO to the Tampa Bay Rays on Upton. Everyone knew what he was and Friedman will pedal him again in the off-season.
NatsLady said...
Here, for those who are not on twitter, from Drew Storen:
Thanks to everyone for the twitter love and ovation today Means a lot. Real pumped to still be here in DC.
1 hour ago via Twittelator
July 31, 2011 7:52 PM
Thanks for posting that. It was a great moment when he came on.
Michael Bourn got traded for a pitcher named Clemens. Did the Astros confuse him for Roger Clemens? Jim Bowden gave the Astros a F rating for the trade and I give Rizzo a F for not getting that same deal.
To Anon @ 4:36pm:
Storen is no "wuss."
Barely two years into his major league career and he has already dealt with a near off-season trade to KC for Greinke, then this public, drag-it-down-to-the-wire, negotiation with Minny for Span. If Storen could go put up with all this nasty business and still earn 40 saves this year, then man, you've got to tip your hat to him.
A wuss would crumble like a cheap cookie.
The Nats will have a 4 game series with the DBacks so most likely will face Jason Marquis.
Also of note, Detwiler is taking Marquis spot in the rotation. For the next 15 to 21 days, here is the rotation as planned:
1) Jordan Zimmmermann
2) John Lannan
3) Livan Hernandez
4) Chien-Ming Wang
5) Ross Detwiler
Pass the Maalox, Wang and Detwiler don't look like long inning guys so this could get ugly.
SteveM, come on. Hasn't Detwiler been given enough chances to start? He looked so comfortable in the 'pen. Give Milone and Peacock their chance when they can get an August taste of the Majors.
stras37: Started the packing process gettin close to kissing Florida goodbye! #longsummer
Strasburg about to start rehab schedule. I posted that earlier, but it seemed worthwhile enough to try again. I hope he comes to Woodbridge for a start or two. Felt like yelling that 'yaaa-hooooooo!' thing from ... Well, the Yahoo commercials.
Drew8:
I agree with you about bourn don't understand why we couldnt come up with a better package.
Unfortunately, I think Rizzo explained the reason why he didn't trade for Bourn. He talked about either having to give up too much that would be Span or Rasmus possibly Upton or didn't make sense financially and that would be Bourn who is gonna get a big raise in arbitration. That tells me that this team is not ready to play with the big boys when it comes to payroll.
Also what is confusing is that he said that he thinks that they have CF in the system that will be ready in 2 years. It seems that guys like Bourn or Upton would be great stop gap until our own prospects are ready. It worries me because it makes me wonder when this team actually sees itself competing. 2014?
This is a pretty tough crowd on Rizzo. Here is how John Sickels graded the players (not the trades, but the prospects themselves)
Komatsu (Hairston) grades out as a C, Walters (Marquis) C+.
Here are his preseason grades for some Nats prospects:
C+: Peacock, Kimball, Marrero, Lombardozzi
C: Milone, Rosenbaum, Tyler Moore
Same guy grading both groups. Seems like decent returns for 2 months of
Hairston and Marquis.
But I do agree that Bourn seemed to go cheaply, and Rizzo probably just wasn't focused on him.
"That tells me that this team is not ready to play with the big boys when it comes to payroll."
Exposremain: I didn't read it that way. Like you and Drew8, I'm surprised that the Nats couldn't top Atlanta's meager offer to Houston for Bourn. But once that deal went through, there was no way Rizzo could justify trading Storen and Lombardozzi for a player whose health remains very much in issue.
Roberto:
I think Rizzo thought that the Twins might eventually lower their demands but after last year I'm not sure they would do that. I think Rizzo should of give up on Span and then go for Bourn but I think the money was an issue with Bourn.
No one else has mentioned this and Rizzo does take a lot of grief here but he was true to his word. He said it would be difficult to trade Storen, that he was a core National and even though the national writers kept insisting he was in panic mode I don't think that was true. I am not that impressed with his trading ability yet but it is not horrible and I understand getting something for Marquis and Hairston rather than letting them leave at the end of the year. What I do like is that he does not seem to pull punches or talk in circles. What he said, he stayed true to. He didn't say he wouldn't trade Storen, he said it would be tough and that proved to be correct. The Grienke thing never happened so we can all stop nagging about what might have been. We still have a shot at way more than 70 wins and from where we were two years ago that is progress. I also agree that Davey is getting his feet under him and things are going to get better as the season winds to an end. It will be interesting to see if he comes back for a 2nd season, Phil Woods seems to think its almost a done deal.
Go Nats
Just that he considered trading a young pitcher of quality for a average centerfielder shows how nutty Mike Rizzo is. The Nats have this off-season to find a centerfielder without trading a pitcher of value to get him.
DFL.... Where do you get your thinking saying that?! Rizzo DID NOT consider trading a young pitcher of quality. He really didn't even consider Clippard unless something else from the Twins was included. And he NEVER considered Storen, hence NO TRADE!
According to Mr. Zuckerman, Dude, Storen was considered for a trade to the Twins.
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