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Associated Press photo Sean Burnett reacts after giving up a three-run homer in the fifth inning. |
Really, though, this game was lost the moment Tom Gorzelanny had to depart before the bottom of the third, having sprained his ankle trying to bowl over catcher Brian McCann in a rare baserunning adventure for the Nationals starter.
From that moment on, manager Davey Johnson was forced to max out his bullpen, asking four relievers to churn out seven quality innings of work.
The end result was perhaps all too predictable. All four relievers were scored upon, two of them serving up titanic homers that tied the game and deflated the Nationals' dugout.
"I used about everybody," Johnson said. "I went as far as I could."
Making matters worse, Johnson didn't have his designated long reliever available. Normally, a situation like this would scream for that
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56 comments:
We are now 95 games in and all any one says is there is no reason to worry about Werth. Well if not now, when? June of 12?
And how did our pen get so tired when our starters were always lasting 5+, early in the season, a bonus that lasted longer than any other team.
I think this game was lost when it was time for Davey to manage the game with the pen. The pen has been a superb, until Davey arrived. They also just had 4 days off. I thought handling pitchers was one of his strengths. Rizzo does not get a pass on this loss either.
It's getting harder and harder to hear the guys keep saying "we just gotta move forward" when all they are doing is "moving backward." It's getting a little late in the season to keep believing "we got a lot of baseball left to play," or that worn out cliche, "it's just one game." Winning one and losing two will always "bite you in the end."
Totally agree. Johnson blew it with the way he handled the pen today. Why didn't Coffey come in after HRod pitched 2 innings? How the heck can you bring Gas Can Burnett into the game in that situation given how's he's been pitching. How idiotic is it our supposed long man out of the pen is not available because he pitched 2 innings Friday night? I blame that on Rizzo Unbelievable. 6 runs off Jurrjens and we lose the game.
I wonder where Detwiler fits in. Some folks think he is a starter. Others think he is a reliever. I'm not sure he is a major-league pitcher. The Crow analogy isn't going to fit here, I think.
I put my thoughts on how DJ should have managed the bullpen in the other entry.
I'm sorry, Mark Z, but I have to disagree: the game was NOT lost when Gorzy came out.
Not when we scored eight (count 'em) EIGHT runs. And it wasn't lost when Werth didn't come through with a clutch hit.
It was lost by DJ not putting the pitchers into the game in the logical order and leaving Henry and Clip in for too long. (And I agree with not using Coffey, you have to hold someone in reserve).
Also, this idea of the "sixth starter" in the bullpen for long relief (Detwiler), that is just not logical -- you can't schedule that you are going to need a long reliever just exactly when your long reliever is ready.
Because of the stability of the starting rotation, our bullpen had evolved to a gaggle of short relievers. DJ is trying to change it on the fly. I admit, I don't understand what his thinking is. We need a utility guy like Miss Iowa (Miguel Batista) and I'm not sure Detwiler is that guy.
Yah Davey keep over-using Clippard and you will feel over worked. To bash the best pitcher in the Majors statistically for 6 runs and not win really sucks and Werth again was a COLOSSAL FAILURE.
Every position player got a hit but Werth. Kimbrel was in trouble in the top of the 9th just to see him not get a hit. Unless he walks in the late innings Werth never seems to be in kill mode.
Davey has 3 weaknesses: Werth, Stares, and Burnett.
Game on the line give me Zim, Morse, Espi, and Ramos. After that Desmond and Bernadina and then Nix, Hairston, Pudge, Cora, Bixler, then Marquis, then Werth and Stares.
pos anon said... I wonder where Detwiler fits in. Some folks think he is a starter. Others think he is a reliever. I'm not sure he is a major-league pitcher. The Crow analogy isn't going to fit here, I think.
I think you saw what Detwiler could be, a 1 inning setup guy to take the pressure off of Clippard.
Mark'd said...
Yah Davey keep over-using Clippard and you will feel over worked. To bash the best pitcher in the Majors statistically for 6 runs and not win really sucks and Werth again was a COLOSSAL FAILURE.
Every position player got a hit but Werth. Kimbrel was in trouble in the top of the 9th just to see him not get a hit. Unless he walks in the late innings Werth never seems to be in kill mode.
Davey has 3 weaknesses: Werth, Stares, and Burnett.
Game on the line give me Zim, Morse, Espi, and Ramos. After that Desmond and Bernadina and then Nix, Hairston, Pudge, Cora, Bixler, then Marquis, then Werth and Stares.
July 17, 2011 7:52 PM
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I am laughing that you have the newly departed Bixler ahead of Werth and Stares.
I get your point though and Werth will talk a walk with the game on the line to get on base and don't remember the last time he hit to win a game...oh yah, last year against Storen and the Nationals.
Is there a kept statistic for number of rallies killed? I would think the pathtic Werth leads the league, if not baseball.
NatsLady said...
Also, this idea of the "sixth starter" in the bullpen for long relief (Detwiler), that is just not logical -- you can't schedule that you are going to need a long reliever just exactly when your long reliever is ready.
July 17, 2011 7:44 PM
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I see all short inning guys. Let's see, you have 7 so someone had to go 2 innings to leave Coffey in the wings and Storen and Detwiler wasn't available. So Burnett was your freshest arm. Could have gone with Burnett for the 3rd or 4th or right to MPHrod like he did. The problem was thinking ahead once the Nats went up 6-2.
How about Stairs retire, or by all that is sensible - dfa and we bring up another reliever temporarily? Matt Stairs does absolutely nothing for this team and he is taking up a spot that we could use for someone that could contribute. I know we have all said it to death but REALLY!!!!!!! Also - DJ is trying to play a brand of baseball that does not work with this team. He has had plenty of time to settle in. Huge ego -- notice how he always says I,I,I,I,I? But, hey, for all those Davey Johnson fans ( and Ray Knight is their club president) - at least they are having fun and the clubhouse is loose, right? Not angry with most of the team for this loss - many of them are playing their hearts out and really executing. It's not fair to them - 8 runs against the second best team in baseball. I have a feeling we arrive in Houston just in time to see them heating up, too. Seems like that's how it rolls. A lot of players left it all on the field today - in Atlanta and in Germany.
DFA Burnett
GoNat -- yes, he should have gone to Burnett first, as I said. The game was tied, no pressure on Burnett, it's like he's a starter. You are already set up for a lefty.
If you get 3 innings from Burnett, great, then you go to Henry, and if you get 2 innings from Henry you are back to "normal".
I am trying to keep an open mind about Davey. Agree with you on the "I" stuff, he did better yesterday, said "we" and "the team" and not one "I" in what I saw reported.
It seems to me he is trying to manage the team he wants to have instead of the team he actually has. I understand he wants to push the team and get more out of them, but the season is half over... Our strength is the bullpen, and if you mismanage that, where does that leave you?
Now we are going to meet with two bad teams. Let's hope we can get some wins on the road and not just fold up. Lots of bounce-back in these guys, but this one was harder in some ways to lose than Friday's 11-1 drubbing. There were just SO many ways we could have won this game!
The Detwiler restriction is crazy. If you want to keep him on a five-day schedule, keep him in Syracuse until Marquis is gone.
What does Davey do when the starter goes two innings followed by a 90-minute rain delay? If you need a long guy who isn't a prospect, bring up Stammen, for God's sake.
Any manager (in business) knows that relying on unreliable people is disastrous. Memo to Davey: Billy Beane is a really smart guy. The reason he traded a guy who throws 100 is because THE GUY HITS BATTERS WHEN HE HAS A 4-RUN LEAD!
Crash Davis: ... hit me in the chest with that.
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: I'd kill you!
Crash Davis: Yeah? From what I hear, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a (gerund) boat.
Any manager (in business) knows that relyin
NatsLady, I'm on your side. When you lose your starter at 2 innings with 7 more needed and your "long guy" (Detwiler) is unavailable and a tie game, I think either guy would do in that situation with Coffey in the wings.
It is 7 innings divided by 5 (MPHrod, Burnett, Matteus, Clippard, Storen). Two guys have to go 2 innings and everyone else is set for 1 unless you put Coffey which leaves you Detwiler for emergency or Rick Ankiel (kidding).
If the Nats went to extra innings they were screwed anyway so I think they should have gone for it. Very unhappy that Davey spent Clippard for 2 innings in the 7th and 8th with the lead and Coffey available.
As good as Clip is in his 1st inning of work, he is hittable in his 2nd inning of work but this game was lost in the 5th inning giving up the 4 run lead and actually losing the lead.
Speaking of trading Marquis....
Tom Milone won his 8th game at Syracuse, lowering his ERA to 3.02. He has 119 k's and 9 walks.
Lombardozzi now has as many homers (2) as he does walks.
Point to ponder: Is Kevin Keyes the guy Michael Burgess was supposed to be? In 43 games at Hagerstown the big RF from Texas has 9 homers and 35 RBIs.
Bottom line, Davey made three mistakes, IMO
1) Use Burnett first
2) Don't try to get 3 innings out of Henry
3) Don't try to get 2 innings out of Clip when he worked last night.
Also, someone suggested using Storen in the 9th instead of Mattheus. Not sure about that, because you would still have to use Mattheus in the 10th, and what have you gained?
Clip was really upset he gave up that home run. I could see him in the dugout, blaming himself that we lost the game.
We may not expect him to be perfect, but he expects that of himself. He'll rest for a couple of days and be fine, he's given up homeruns before, and he's blown saves before.
dj in FL, okay. I am worried about Werth. I don't think we should boo him. But I am worried about him, and what it's doing to him and the rest of the team for him to co e up in do or die situations and not "do" anything useful.
We can't trade him, and he apparently isn't injured; if he can refuse a hand xray when he gets plunked there, he isn't going to be examined so that someone can find anything, anyway. I know if anyone knew how to help by now, they would have. And it's the fact that no one seems to know what will help that is so worrying,
These guys aren't in a wild card race. But they can still end the season at .500 or better. I want them to have the best shot they can to do that.
Baseball Rumors claims the Nationals are willing to trade Clippard. Hope that's not true.
With every passing game, Werth gets more pathetic. He will never get straightened out until the Nats hire a competent hitting coach.
Doomsday is here! The Nats are 1 game below .500!
(sarcasm) :-)
Seriously though I don't blame this loss on Davey Johnson.
Also, even great relievers give up a run now and then, so Clippard is off the hook.
In my opinion, Burnett lost this game for the Nats. To me it is as simple as that. Burnett lost this game.
The good news is that the Nats appear to be a .500 team this year, so I expect good things to come. Enjoy this exciting team for the rest of the season, and remember that next year will be very interesting indeed (87 wins perhaps?)
Go Nats!!
That rumor about Clippard has been around for quite a while. We all hope it isn't true.
OK, I have to admit, the rationale talk here has brought me back from my high limb. I was screaming to put Coffey in but see now that was probably not the way to go. I was also screaming not to put HRod back out for a 3rd inning and most of you agree with that. I can see now that it should have been Burnett for the 3rd and 4th, HRod 5 & 6 and that would have left Mattheus, Clip and Storen for the win. Of course this didn't happen but at least I see now what the problem was. If we can win 4 of 6 from two teams with poor records then we return home still battling for a decent record.
Can only hope this lose is not the start of a slide. Houston might be the best medicine we can have right now.
go nats
When the season is over, the Nats will be more than 10 games out of the wild card. No manager is going to change that.
At what point does Rizzo admit failure with some of the players on this roster? Burnette is just killing us. Werth, well... I guess we have six more years to figure this one out. And then there is Stairs who would look a lot better right now if he could do relief pitching.
The second half Livan is what we expected, not an innings eater, but a bullpen killer. The bullpen had to pitch too many innings Friday, which set up this disaster today.
There is lot to be joyful about with this team, but there are too many veterans wasting space on the roster right now. The mix needs to be changed if this season is becoming a building season instead of a hunt for the playoffs.
Of course they're willing to trade Clippard. Why wouldn't they be? You wouldn't take, say, Curtis Granderson for Clippard?
Not that this is going to happen, just for the sake of hyperbole to make a point. The point is what they get back. A good trade helps both teams, not just yours.
N. Cognito said...
When the season is over, the Nats will be more than 10 games out of the wild card. No manager is going to change that.
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Well, the right one could make it 20 games out.
Dale said...
At what point does Rizzo admit failure with some of the players on this roster? Burnette is just killing us. Werth, well... I guess we have six more years to figure this one out. And then there is Stairs who would look a lot better right now if he could do relief pitching.
The second half Livan is what we expected, not an innings eater, but a bullpen killer. The bullpen had to pitch too many innings Friday, which set up this disaster today.
There is lot to be joyful about with this team, but there are too many veterans wasting space on the roster right now. The mix needs to be changed if this season is becoming a building season instead of a hunt for the playoffs.
July 17, 2011 10:26 PM
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Can't argue with any of that. While Livo has shown many games looking like an ace he has pitched and looked like a disgrace and his last 2 starts have been garbage.
Livo is a popular player around here and the truth is that this team just doesn't support him and Jordan Zimmermann which means unless you can pitch like an ace, there aren't going to be too many wins when Livo takes the mound.
sjm308 said...
OK, I have to admit, the rationale talk here has brought me back from my high limb. I was screaming to put Coffey in but see now that was probably not the way to go. I was also screaming not to put HRod back out for a 3rd inning and most of you agree with that. I can see now that it should have been Burnett for the 3rd and 4th, HRod 5 & 6 and that would have left Mattheus, Clip and Storen for the win. Of course this didn't happen but at least I see now what the problem was. If we can win 4 of 6 from two teams with poor records then we return home still battling for a decent record.
go nats
July 17, 2011 10:15 PM
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sjm, I would used Coffey if needed during MPHrod's or Burnett's innings if they went with the 2 inning for each plan.
Still can't believe Davey used up Clip for 2 innings.
Many teams over-use their bullpens like this and make a move to get a fresh arm up for the next day. Very disappointed to let this one get away after getting 6 earned runs off of the top rated pitcher in baseball!
This team in a sense has struggled all year, mostly due to a lack of hitting, but has managed to find themselves just one game below .500. To be perfectly honest given what I see of this team it's pretty remarkable. They are young and unspectacular but competitive to a man. Seventy-nine wins, ten games better than last season would be a super result. Think of them as like the Phoenix rising from the ashes and enjoy the Nationals as they evolve...
Former Nats beat writer Chico Harlan has the USA/Japan soccer story on front page of today's WaPo. Wonder if he likes soccer better than baseball?
Agreed that the team is in a better place than most of us thought we would be - especially with zim on a long dl stint, laroche out, werth unproductive. I actually probably would not have believed it at all. Big issues remain - the new manager does not seem to be able to think ahead to multiple inning/ game contingencies -- ie - the old checkers or chess analogy.this was only the third game after the all star break - not the last game after a 10 game road trip. The other issue is the blindness when it comes to veterans. I appreciate loyalty as much as the next person, but a little reality at this point is called for. Our rookies are carrying us - yet another reason to be happy. I especially love watching Danny, Ramos and Storen. All three are playing in high-pressure positions and are just solid.Bernie is taking on the lead-off role. Desi continues to focus and work - he may not be the most talented guy on the field, but he is a battler. Morse - a great and fun surprise. Zim is no longer the only name that people know on our team. GYFNG! Hate west coast trips but hoping for the best.
I had a great dream. Texas kept after Rizzo for CLippard. Finally traded him and Werth for Hamilton. Then I woke up and see Werth and Clippard still here. OH Well
Lets sweep the Astros.
GYFNG
On the other hand, perhaps he's using that particular pronoun in an attempt to take responsibility for the loss on his own shoulders rather than putting it on those of another individual or the team as a whole.
Many of the comments in this thread use it liberally as well. Can we then conclude that those individuals all have huge egos as well? I (oops) think not, as "I" tends to be used quite a bit when one is giving an opinion, or when one is answering a direct question about one's choices or actions.
gonatsgo said...
Huge ego -- notice how he always says I,I,I,I,I?
Oh, and nice post, UNTERP.
Time to shake up the bullpen! Most of these guys are marginal major leaguers anyway. Keep Storen and Coffey, then trade what you can and DFA the rest. It is beyond me why they let JC Romero go, I would take an injured Romero over a healthy Burnett any day of the week and twice on Sundays!
Sometimes you win games you should lose. Sometimes you lose games you should win. Happens to every team in baseball. The outlook always looks better after a win.
Re: Clippard available by trade - right on sofa-king. Of course he's available. He is way more easily replaced than an everyday position player. But Rizzo doesn't deal pieces like that easily.
It seems as if we hit better against really good pitchers than we do against the back of the rotation guys. More consistent? Around the plate more? Dunno.
The game was lost when Davey brought in Burnett. You give the ball to HRod and tell him "I need 4 innings from you amigo.....now suck it up!" As soon as I saw Burnett in, I knew it was over.
"You give the ball to HRod and tell him 'I need 4 innings from you amigo.....now suck it up!'"
You could do that. But two innings later, you're still watching him walk people, hit batters, and hang sliders. Telling a pitcher to get an out doesn't make that happen. It doesn't work like that. If it did, John Patterson would still be in the rotation.
Not to single anyone out, but this is a good example.
If you bring Storen in to pitch the 9th and he gets out of the inning, you give yourself one more chance to take the lead. If you have the lead when Mattheus comes in, you have better odds of him not blowing the game.
That is, of course, assuming that Storen pitches a scoreless inning. In this instance, though, I actually agreed with Mattheus pitching the 9th. 9-1-2 were due up for the Braves, none of which is a spectacular hitter. Of course, the wheels fell off when he walked the **dangerous** Brooks Conrad to start the inning.
Furthermore, if our long reliever isn't conditioned to pitch on two-day's rest, then what good is he being on the team? Despite Chad Gaudin's general awfulness, I would rather have him. He could at least eat up innings and only pitch in blow outs. That's the kind of guy to whom you say, "Hey, I need 4 innings out of you..." and if he hangs sliders by the third inning, well, you didn't expect much more anyway.
As far as Detwiler goes, either put him in the bullpen full-time and begin to condition his arm to it or leave him in the rotation (somewhere). Whether he is in Triple-A or in the majors, define his role. Putting him in limbo is not helping him and certainly not helping the team if he can't pitch when needed.
Yes, I agreed with putting Mattheus in, even though it didn't work out. The kid's been good, and you keep Storen in case you get ahead in extra innings.
If Rizzo can find another Capps/Ramos deal, of course Clippard is on the table. Basically, you need that guy we traded to Milwaukee (ha ha, fat chance).
Sunderland said...
Re: Clippard available by trade - right on sofa-king. Of course he's available. He is way more easily replaced than an everyday position player. But Rizzo doesn't deal pieces like that easily.
July 18, 2011 9:07 AM
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I agree that a reliever is more easily replaced than an everyday position player which is why Josh Willingham for a reliever and mid-prospect outfielder was made.
Now on top rumors, Josh Willingham of the A's is being shopped around for Top Prospects. The A's want a team's top prospect in trade for the RH power hitter.
Now let's see what the A's get in trade.
Gonat, so you don't think a reliever with a 4.55 ERA was a good trade for an outfielder with a top OBP of .389
It was a bad trade as Willingham has 12 HRs and 46 RBIs in only 72 games. I bet the A's pull a top prospect for him.
Rizzo has failed at too many transactions this season and the fact that Stares is still here is a testament to his continual failures. He has had many opportunities to right the wrongs.
How bout Werth for Willingham and we kick in 10 mil a year on Werth's salary
Sec 3......HRod had 2 perfect innings, then the first 3 hitters of his 3rd inning got on. First guy hit a pretty good 0-2 curve, then he hit the second guy. Third guy hit a routine grounder to right for a basehit. Score at this time is 6-3.....runners on the corners with 0 outs. So Davey brings in "Ol Kerosene"....bingo bango.....3 run bomb....tied up. Before he can get out of the inning, we are losing. Burnett has wore out his welcome here....it is time for him to go.
Please remind me why I bother watching this team sometimes. Sorry for piling on negative posts but bullpen should not be maxed out two days after ASB. We should be winning games where we score 8 or 9 runs. This loss and that Cubs loss last week was stupid. Anyways, new series, new games, new outcomes, hopefully positive.
Mattheus needs to watch WB Mason commercials and remember. In extra innings (and the bottom of the 9th in a tie game is like extra innings you "never, never, never," walk the lead off hitter.
Now lets go storm the castle in Houston.
Mark'd said "It was a bad trade as Willingham has 12 HRs and 46 RBIs in only 72 games. I bet the A's pull a top prospect for him."
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Really unlikely. It's not just a player's performance and potential to be considered, it is also their contract status and free agent status.
Josh Willingham is making $6M this season (highest paid player on the A's) and will be a free agent come October. Josh has never had a long term contract and will certainly want someone to guarantee him a few years.
Sp no one is going to give the A's a top prospect to rent Josh Willingham for 2 months. He's already 32 years old, he has never been able to stay healthy, he's not a particularly good defender, his body and skill set makes him more than likely a DH sometime wihtin the next 2 years.
Mark'd said:
'It was a bad trade as Willingham has 12 HRs and 46 RBIs in only 72 games. I bet the A's pull a top prospect for him.'
Willingham - 0.5 WAR
Nix - 0.9 WAR
If someone gives Beane a top prospect for a Willingham rental they are idiots.
BigCat, that's all true, except I think you might be hasty with Burnett (altho middle relievers often have one good or two years, and then fade away, so maybe not).
That was not my point, however.
The long reliever we need is already on the team. Livo! He could come in and pitch in almost any scenario and eat up innings. Then that leaves room to bring up Wang or Peacock. Livo would be a perfect bautista replacement.
Manassas.....what is Burnetts stats since Davey took over? It is almost like he is the The Curse of Le-Riggs.....to steal a Kornheiser line.
I don't have them all, but I do have him giving up the homer to Pena to tie the score at 8-8 against the Cubs, in the first game of the doubleheader (with me in the stands), he gave up the winning homer to another lefty Garrett Jones, followed by a homer by Andrew McCucheon. Last night's homer to MCCann to tie it at. I believe he only the one good performance against the Rockies when we were losing 2-1. As I have told you before Big Cat, he has a place on the team. That place is to come in when we are behind never, never, never when we are ahead.
Do you realize we complained most of the year about the hitters. Twice in the last 7 games they have scored 8 runs or more and we have lost. We were up 8-0 in one of the games and 6-2 in the other. " Ole Kerosine," was in the middle of both those games.
Ole Kerosine needs to come in when there is no fire.
Okay, this doesn't make much sense, but I'm listening to Davey Johnson on ESPN980 AM, and he just indicated that Espinosa will lead off tonight, and Bernadina will bat 7TH...
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