Tuesday, January 15, 2013

Nats signing Soriano for $28 million

USA Today Sports Images
Rafael Soriano saved 42 games for the Yankees last season.
Already overloaded with right-handers with experience closing games in the big leagues, the Nationals are adding another big name to their bullpen ... and making a major financial commitment to him.

The Nationals have agreed to terms on a two-year, $28 million contract with veteran Rafael Soriano, a source familiar with the deal confirmed. Terms also include a $14 million option for 2015 that would automatically vest if Soriano finishes 120 combined games over the next two seasons.

The surprise addition of Soriano (a Scott Boras client) gives the Nationals yet another power right-hander at the back of their bullpen, but raises immediate questions about how manager Davey Johnson plans to divvy up roles.

Drew Storen was in line to retain his position as the Nationals' closer after a strong finish to 2012 before his blown save in Game 5 of the National League Division Series. Tyler Clippard, who led the club with 32 saves last season, figured to retain his role as the top set-up man.
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265 comments:

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Ghost Of Steve M. said...

MicheleS, now it's a great deal. AA I said it was a $3 mill overpay. Now its a page from Angelos where you defer so its not an overpay.


I like it even more now.

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

Thanks Sect222. I thought it was going to happen but then it looked like Boras and Rizzo had gone off the same page.

You need a killer as your closer and Storen is too nice. I think as I once wrote he had them by the neck and couldn't snap it.

Theophilus T. S. said...

"That would pretty much turn the game into a 6 inning game for teams against us. If your losing after 6, you call in the dogs . . .."

In the end, that's the name of this tune. It allows Johnson to continue to pander to/pamper wimpy starters who fold like overcooked Chef Boyardi after 5-6 innings. This is the one weak spot in Johnson's managerial repertoire. If he can't get seven innings out of these fragile arms on more than an infrequent basis, then the BP arms -- all of them -- will be worn out by the end of the regular season and Soriano may well get his 60 Games Finished.

MicheleS said...

The other weird thing is the universal praise we are receiving from not only the writers, but the ex-MLB Folks. Just weird being in this position.

On another note, the Braves fans on twitter are having a hissy since our bullpen is now just as competitive as theirs.

Dave said...

Weird is right. I can't believe 2009 was just 3 seasons ago. I thought the Nats would be good this year. Didn't dream they would be one of the monster teams of MLB.

sjm308 said...

MicheleS - you nailed it! I am getting more and more of our regulars here to at least think about it and as for beers at Justin's that is a small price to pay. I think the key would be if FeelWood declares positively, absolutely that it won't happen. Since I sit one section away (and am not moving my seat), I am pretty sure Feel understands a little teasing.

Go Nats!! World Series or Bust!! Keep Morse!!

and I don't care who said what first, I just love the fact that you are all passionate about our lads. JayB, that was a good call by you and I am now worried that 222 can go back and find pretty much anything we have said here.

natsfan1a said...

Yes, I believe the last straw was the significant glance the two exchanged while turning a page. ;-)

Feel Wood said...

Actually, Clip and Store were headed down that road until Clippard made the mistake of getting filmed reading Fifty Shades of Gray to some other guys.
January 15, 2013 5:27 PM

natsfan1a said...

Likewise, and I don't give a rat's patootie who said what first, either. (Oops, did I say that last part out loud? :-))

NatsJack in Florida said...

Again......I prefer to sit back and watch Rizzo work his magic.
January 15, 2013 6:15 PM

sjm308 said...

Theo - it is true that Davey did baby Strasburg and Zimm. I think you will see that continue with SS and Det but maybe not so much with Zimm. If Haren is well, we would have 3 guys who can go deeper into games. The great thing now, with this bullpen is that we sure that the ability to bring in a stud as early as the 6th inning.

natsfan1a said...

Oh, dear, I see that I owe sjm a drink now. I do like seeing JayB happy. Keep it going, Rizzo and Lerners! :-)

and I don't care who said what first


sjm308 said...

Just read this from ESPN Insider

(The signing also means the Nats don't have to trade Mike Morse for a reliever, as has been speculated. They can keep and use him as depth/injury insurance for the outfield and first base.)

The movement is growing people!!

natsfan1a - in respect for your habits, I will take a bottled water or ice tea. Soft drinks are bad for your health.

More Like NATlanta said...

Not sure I'm a fan of this move. Storen lives and dies on the emotion/pressure of being the guy in the 9th. He's a very high ceiling guy who would have done well with a full year of seasoning as the go-to closer. And, with so much of the heart and soul of our team declared for arbitration, I think we're going to need the money that we could have saved here. It would have been much safer (wiser?) to match Burnett or bring in Howell.

I hope this is the piece that will put us over the top in October. But, I think run production will be the bigger issue for the '13 lineup. If we win the WS, I'll happily quiet down.

The Real Feel Wood. Accept no substitutes. said...

Keeping Morse through 2013 could definitely happen. The thing that absolutely won't happen is Rizzo giving him an extension so he'll be happy sitting on the bench.

Laddie Blah Blah said...

"So, Laddie Blah Blah you are saying that you believe Reynolds believes that Robinson Cano could be a gold-glove shortstop in the majors? But Espinosa can.

Dream on. He a Spankee that's all that makes him special. He's just Dan Uggla in pin stripes."

I don't see Cano play often enough to have an informed opinion on his fielding ability, but he sure has impressed 12-year ML veteran 2nd baseman Harold Reynolds, 2-time Cleveland GM Exec of the year John Hart, sabermetric guru Bill Walsh, and the MLB "shredder". You certainly have a right to your own opinion, but I am wondering who those 'scouts" are who can be so much more right than the stats indicate, and the guys who are generally considered experts in their field.

Only someone who has not checked the stats, himself, would be uninformed enough to compare Uggla's bat with Cano's. Cano is a surefire HOF player. His numbers rank with the best of all time. Uggla will not even make the ballot. Nor will Espinoza. Heck, Danny did not even rate mention on 3 of MLB's top ten evaluators, except for the next-to-last slot on Reynold's evaluation.

Do your homework.

peric said...

Keeping Morse through 2013 could definitely happen. The thing that absolutely won't happen is Rizzo giving him an extension so he'll be happy sitting on the bench.

That just might depend on what happens this spring ... if he has another break out spring like he did in 2011?

I believe Rizzo still likes to see competition ... whenever possible.

NatsLady said...

So, is Rizzo really interested in Javy Vazquez, or was the trip to Puerto Rico just a decoy? No leaks in his front-office, that's for sure.

peric said...

Do your homework.

Yes you should try it sometime there Laddie Blah Blah?

There's this from Fangraphs :

There exist other numbers, however, that suggest Cano has indeed turned himself into a better over all player. The big strides he has made have not been at the plate, but rather in the field. I saw Cano play quite a bit in 2002 when he was assigned to low-A Greensboro, and it’s not an exaggeration to say that he was a defensive disaster. His footwork was laughably bad, and while he showed athleticism, there were just no fundamentals that suggested he was even on the path to becoming a big league middle infielder.

He wasn’t much better by the time he got to the majors, in 2005, as he posted a -21.2 UZR in his rookie year. Despite hitting well for a second baseman, he gave back nearly all of his value by failing to convert outs behind his pitchers. Again, I figured it was only a matter of time until Cano was shifted to the outfield, where his athleticism could play well and his inability to react quickly would be of less importance.

To his credit though, Cano has put in a tremendous amount of work, turning himself into a competent defender. No, he’ll never win a gold glove, but his +2.3 UZR to date this season is no longer the kind of shocking number that makes people question the system itself. While a couple of months of UZR data isn’t large enough to make any conclusions, his UZR since the 2006 season is just -12.4, or about -3 runs per year.


Yes, his fielding has improved but to HOF levels? Guys like Nap LaJoie? Carew? Morgan? Hornsby? Alomar? Frisch? Robinson? Sandberg? Now I am really snickering at you? And you claim to be some sort of computer whiz? Not on your life dude.Heck Cano isn't as good as Davey Johnson and I don't see him in the HOF.

Then there's this by William Tasker:

Fangraphs ranked Cano the sixth best second baseman in baseball last year. And over the last three years, that same site ranks Cano third behind Ben Zobrist and Chase Utley. Utley, unfortunately, seems on the wrong side of history with knee problems. Zobrist is not a true second baseman as he plays right and first base too. Both kill Cano with their fielding rankings. Dustin Pedroia is in the same category as knocking Cano silly in fielding metrics. But when it comes to offense, Cano is clearly the leader with the highest wOBA and wRC+ for second basemen over the past three seasons. Fangraphs ranks his play as averaging $23.4 million a year for the past three years.

You want a prediction? I'll give you one. Espinosa is going to make people forget who Cano even is in a very short time. Mark my words.

Sheesh. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FOOL!

phil dunton said...

I think management lost confidence in Storen as a closer after his blowup in the final game of the playoffs.

Tegwar said...

NatsLady,

I'm leaning toward since he could not get Vazquez he went this route instead.

The bullpen was throwing too many innings last year. Over the last 3 years Clippard threw more innings in relief than anyone else in baseball. This will save some innings for the whole staff. That said I still think Rizzo wants Vazquez just don't know if there is enough room for him?

Rizzo wants to prove that you can have too much pitching ;-).

Gonat said...

I am late to the party but trust me I have been celebrating all day.

Theophilus T. S. said...

sjm308 --

Re: going long into games, Strasburg had an excuse, and Zimmermann and to some extent Detwiler may have rationalizations, but Gonzalez in my mind was the worst/most unsympathetic offender. The guy reached the fifth or sixth inning, the strike zone was weaving back and forth in front of his eyes, and he had already thrown 110 pitches. This year I'll still cut Strasburg a break -- at least until he learns to strike batters out on less than 6-7 pitches. But the others need to strap it on and pitch like grown men. By the end of last year, Burnett and Clippard had been seriously over-used/over-exposed (every hitter in the league had seen Clippard's straight change), and Storen, too (coming of injury, no ST). And that will happen again this year if Johnson continues to operate a zip line between the mound and the dugout.

Joe Seamhead said...

wow, I get in late today and there is huge news, well over 300 posts so far today, the resident inmates are claiming control of the asylum, and meanwhile the Nats just got a hell of a lot better. A couple of weeks ago, with the ALR situation unsettled we still looked like even money to compete for the NL East crown. Then with ALR signed we looked to have pulled slightly ahead of the Braves in most, if not all categories, except for the bullpen. Now, as of today the Braves don't stack up better then us even in the pen. In Rizzo We Trust, and I trust that he will still pull another rabbit out of his hat. Fasten your seat belts folks, we're moving into hyper-drive!
Of, yeah, I will attest to JayB's tone regarding the pen. It pretty much started the day after Game 5.As to the Cano/Morse/Espinosa 2nd base argument, I'm back to rolling my eyes. You gotta be kidding me.

Gonat said...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...
Rizzo can't trade Morse for a trade like he did with Willingham, and to even consider a trade would be somewhat contingent on getting a new CF or corner outfielder and seeing what the Nats do with Adam LaRoche. A key is Morse has to stay healthy.

I don't think the Danny Espinosa situation has to be addressed right away and Rendon could be the answer there.

EJax is gone and failed at exactly what he was brought here for which was to be a top of the rotation starter and postseason leader.

October 13, 2012 1:25 PM
__________________________________

Ghost, reading through your posts after the Game 5 meltdown.

Its as if you knew the Nats would get a new OF and get rid of EJax as you said.

Faraz Shaikh said...

I gave myself some time to think it over but I am still not a fan of this move. An overpay is an overpay whether Nats can afford it or not. I don't think it is the best use of resources.

Gonat said...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...

I don't see Bourn fitting the plan but I believe Rizzo should pursue Lohse and will be tied to Boras's closers.

October 21, 2012 8:03 PM
_______________________________

Good stuff.

Doug said...

Faraz - The "Soriano is overpaid" argument is flawed by just looking at the 2 years $28M figures. The truth is we really only pay $7M in 13 and 14 and then $1M per year from 2018 - 2025. Don't want to get into time value of money, but deferring that compensation makes this a much more reasonable deal from a financial perspective.

Gonat said...

Ghost Of Steve M. said...
I believe the Nats can start to settle in around $120 million in payroll. Easy for me to spend their money. They will no longer be spending big on Draft Picks and the shift now has to be to extending current players (JZim and Desi) while re-signing ALR and grabbing 1 key starter that will make an impact. If they do that, all key roster spots will be under control in 2014 and 2015 as well with the exception of Morse and a backup catcher.

October 18, 2012 10:56 AM
_________________________________

You say $120 million. Aren't the Nats near $120 million now.

Doug said...

Sorry, my math was a little off there....its $2M per year from 2018-2025....still from a cash flow perspective, it will be much easier for the Lerners to handle.

Tegwar said...

Doug,

I agree with you, in fact I'm guessing now Soriano wishes he took the 13.3 from the Yankees for one year. I would think he he could have gotten at least 2 years at 7 million the year after without it being deferred?

Happy to have him, on paper the bullpen looks tough I would think that someone still might be traded for a LH reliever but maybe it will be a package deal even bigger. Only Rizzo knows?

peric said...

I gave myself some time to think it over but I am still not a fan of this move. An overpay is an overpay whether Nats can afford it or not. I don't think it is the best use of resources.

Feel the same way about Werth Faraz. And the sad thing is because of Werth we probably lose Morse who is far more productive offensively with his .857 OPS over the last three seasons. Sure he fields better but he is older and I fear with the 2nd wrist injury not a run producer as he was in the past. His high OBP saves him. But is he worth it as the highest paid player? 21 million per annum his last years?

No friggin' way.

Faraz Shaikh said...

Doug, I understand that. I am looking from worth perspective. While I understood Jayson's signing, I don't get this signing.
Over the course of last four seasons, Soriano has pitched 245 IP (2011 he pitched only 39 innings due to injury), For relievers who have pitched at least 240 innings in last four seasons, Soriano ranks 8th for K/BB ratio. Guess who is 9th? Clip, making fraction of what Soriano will earn in this contract. Soriano, for same criteria, ranks 3rd in BAA at .197. Guess who is second? Clip with .185. Of course, these are select stats of my choice that show Clip as better. There are other advanced numbers that suggest Soriano has been better. We are all too familiar with Clip and heart problems he has caused over the years, but I doubt Soriano will completely make us forget about either Storen and Clip's struggles. Time will tell I guess. I hope I am wrong as always and Soriano closes game 7 (or 4, 5, 6) for Nats in WS the coming two seasons.

Drew said...

I want to win, and I'm all for anything that makes it less likely Bad Henry will spoil dinner.

That said, the WS or Bust philosophy bothers me.

The Nats gave up Alex Meyer and now they're forfeiting their top pick. This pick is valuable. The Nats got Meyer at No. 23 and Goodwin at No. 34.

The Nats will be here when Davey's gone. They need to restock their minor league pitching.

Faraz Shaikh said...

by the way, I thought that deferred contracts were not allowed under new CBA.

Laddie Blah Blah said...

"To his credit though, Cano has put in a tremendous amount of work, turning himself into a competent defender. No, he’ll never win a gold glove, but his +2.3 UZR to date this season is no longer the kind of shocking number that makes people question the system itself."

Uh, what season are you talking about? Do you even know who won the GG for AL 2nd basemen in 2012? Look it up, "fool." Cano has won 3 straight silver sluggers and 2 out of the last 3 gold gloves, "fool."

Do your homework.

Tegwar said...

Faraz,

Soriano was signed because of his experience. He has pitched in the the post season the last 3 years and when you pitch for the Yankees you get extra credit.

Not sure how the deferred contract works out does get it get counted for team payroll with the luxury tax?

Soriano was the best relief pitcher left and now he is a Nat, will it workout? Yes over a 162 game season it will. Will it make a difference in the post season god willing? Too hard to say.

Over Pay? Not if your team motto is World Series or Bust.

Laddie Blah Blah said...

Uh, Peric, FYI, just so you stop making a complete fool of yourself, this is from the press release announcing Cano's Gold Glove for 2012:

"Cano, who led all American League second basemen with 726 chances in 2012, finished second in the league with a .992 fielding percentage while making just six errors. This marks his second career Gold Glove Award (also 2010).

He is just one of two Yankees second basemen to win a Gold Glove, along with Bobby Richardson, who won the honor in five straight seasons from 1961-65. Cano also holds two of the three best single-season fielding percentages by a second baseman in franchise history with his third-best mark in 2012 and his club-best .996 in 2010 (3E in 776 total chances). Snuffy Stirnweiss owns the second-highest single-season mark by a Yankees second baseman (.993 in 1948).

Since his debut in 2005, Cano has played in more games (1,197), made more starts (1,171) and played more innings (10,413.1) at second base than any other Major Leaguer. He has also tallied the most chances (5,891) and been part of the most double plays (788) at his position over the stretch."

peric said...

Uh, what season are you talking about? Do you even know who won the GG for AL 2nd basemen in 2012?

Uh maybe because he's a SPANKEEE??? That's why? There are MANY FAR more deserving GG candidates at second base including Danny Espinosa who must have the best range and arm of any 2B defender in all of major league baseball.

DOH! Do your home work Homer and take the spent rod out of your pocket its doing brain damage. Doh! GG is political as much as a performance award.

peric said...

Uh, what season are you talking about? Do you even know who won the GG for AL 2nd basemen in 2012?

ONLY OLD, really OLD fools use fielding percentage which is probably one of the least accurate gauges of performance in major league baseball? Its all about the UZR and its derivatives which are better, less biased stats.

Take the radioactive pile from your pocket fool its starting to light your hair on fire.

Joe Seamhead said...

Or check it out regarding Robinson Cano here on MLB.com:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121030&content_id=40129166&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

It's bad enough when a blogger calls another blogger names, but when you are just flat out wrong, don't you think an apology is in order?

MicheleS said...

Laddie, I hope you don't mind, but I added you to the Beverage list, you fine sir, deserve a beverage of your choice. Your in Column S


NatsInsider Drink Log

peric said...

It's bad enough when a blogger calls another blogger names, but when you are just flat out wrong, don't you think an apology is in order?

BUT I AM RIGHT YOU OLD COOT. I posted 2 eyewitness accounts of SCOUTS. His UZR is easily accessible through fangraphs.

Morons. Morons. Morons.

peric said...

Laddie, I hope you don't mind, but I added you to the Beverage list, you fine sir, deserve a beverage of your choice. Your in Column S

Another moron who doesn't believe that Morse might actually be as good a fielder at second base as Cano if he had had that much experience. And Morse has the better bat.

You owe 101 drinks lady.

MicheleS said...

Scroll past people, not important

On that note. JoeS, will you and Mrs S be at FanFest?

peric said...

Scroll past people, not important

MicheleS starting trouble again as she loves to do.

peric said...

Since when does MicheleS decide who gets what drinks ... junior high clique action again starring head cheerleader MicheleS ...

what a bunch of sycophants.

Gonat said...

I am also happy from a perspective compared to the Yankees and Dodgers that I don't feel the Nats are buying a championship.

Joe Seamhead said...


Laddie Blah Blah said...

Uh, Peric, FYI, just so you stop making a complete fool of yourself,

--------------------------------------------
Too late, Laddie,much too late. I haven't followed the Beverage list, but I'd gladly buy you a round.
peric, you're pulling on Superman's cape, and you're spitting into the wind, on this one. Son, when you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

MicheleS said...

Peric,
Since it appears you read into everything. Let m explain. Laddie has an excellent contributor to the blog for a long time, He has added to the discourse on this blog and for all the information provided and I just wished to add a small appreciation for that.

My scroll past was due to the fact that my comment was directed at JoeS and whether or not he and Mrs S would be at FanFest. Whatever you read into that is beyond me.

That list of drinks is open to all, so if you wish to contribute I am sure you can add. It's decided by all not by one. It's a list of appreciation among the imaginary friends.

And if I am a sychophant, then thanks at least I know I am a fan of my team, and the head cheerleader- great! I was a band geek, so I am sure the cheerleaders would be shocked right now.

MicheleS said...

And Boz has weighed in:

Boz and Soriano

Gonat said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/in-rafael-soriano-signing-washington-nationals-go-all-in/2013/01/15/0a706718-5f68-11e2-a389-ee565c81c565_story.html

Boz's take. "ALL IN"

MicheleS said...

Gonat.. you owe me

Gonat said...

Put a drink on my ledger! Darn. I read slowly!

Joe Seamhead said...

MicheleS, still not sure about Fanfest. We have a conflict, but may be able to do both.

baseballswami said...

I hope Mark writes about arbitration tomorrow. I am wondering what these guys will get. JZim, Desi? Can you even imagine going to arbitration with Buster Posey? The dollars are getting seriously real now.

MicheleS said...

Swami, just unload the bank for Posey.

MicheleS said...

May I suggest everyone read #5 on this list.. I believe it enforces the case for Det's Breakout year

I ams sure there will be a few posters that will be happy with this

baseballswami said...

Talk about a fiscal cliff!

sjm308 said...

MicheleS - trying to figure out just what there will be at Natsfest? I am not an autograph seeker and don't really need to tell our lads good luck. What have you heard about this.

Thanks

baseballswami said...

I am very high on Det going into this season. He has always had talent, but had injuries, was jerked around and, frankly, was immature. I can't wait to see what he does this season.

MicheleS said...

SJM.. haven't heard a thing. Not really into the autographs either, but would love to just listen to G&A with Rizzo/Davey. This is my first one. Just checking it out with the good nephew (degenerate nephew is under house arrest). Figure check it out, if it's not fun, then go out to eat.

SonnyG10 said...

MicheleS, thanks for the Det link. That was nice to read.

sjm308, there should be photo ops with the players, question and answer sessions with Rizzo and the FO, and I think I heard something about explaining how the tickets would be handled. Probably other things I don't remember.

DaveB said...

peric said...
BUT I AM RIGHT YOU OLD COOT. I posted 2 eyewitness accounts of SCOUTS. His UZR is easily accessible through fangraphs.

So ...
2012 UZR
Cano 9.7
Espinosa 5.9
Morse -9.4

SonnyG10 said...

From nationals.com:

• Player Autographs (pre-purchased voucher required)
• Player Photographs
• Mascot Photographs
• Q&A Stage
• Face Painting, Balloon Art, Inflatables & Caricature Art
• Nationals Merchandise
• Nationals Authenticated Memorabilia
• Exclusive Kids Events
• Interactive Games
• Live Batting Cages
• On Deck Lounge
• Food Court
• 2013 Tickets & Virtual Ticketing Demonstration
• Check back for more activities!

natsfan1a said...

On NatsFest, I'm going again this year, and I tend to stay put and listen to the speakers for the most part.

Speakers: "World Series or bust."
Me: "My, this red beverage is delicious!" (Glug glug) "I'll have another, please." :-)
Some observers: "What a homer." (Eyeroll)

Speaking of beverages and for the record, when I originally used the "Jinx. Buy me a Coke" construct here, it was a salute to the childhood jinx game. In that game, the sequence is triggered when two people inadvertently speak at the same time. I applied it to commenting at the same time with similar thoughts/words.

It has nothing to do with who said what first (days, weeks, months, or even years ago), or with forcing soft drinks on those who would rather not partake. In my mind, any beverages were virtual, not tangible.

I didn't create the NIDO spreadsheet, but I'm pretty sure that anyone who wants to can partake or not, either virtually or in reality (that's up to the two parties in question, I would think).

On another note, I was never a cheerleader in school, but I think I do pretty well from the stands. Do you think maybe I could join the squad, Michele? ;-)

natsfan1a said...

From the Department of Whoops, in the course of posting my jinx game explanation to the NIDO as background, I inadvertently deleted another usage note in the same cell (for the kitty entry). Apologies to whoever posted the original note, and if you can figure out how to repost it in the same cell while retaining my background note, have at it. (I'm no Excel wiz.) :-)

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