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USA Today Images Michael Morse is likely to be traded if the Nationals re-sign Adam LaRoche. |
What's the trade market for Michael Morse look like, and what might the Nationals get in return for the slugger?
Morse's eventual trade is predicated on Adam LaRoche's return, though that prospect looks more and more likely each day, with the Nationals hoping to get a deal done before Christmas.
Once LaRoche is under contract, Morse becomes expendable. Not because the Nationals don't like him and what he offers the club. But because there simply won't be a spot in the lineup for him, with LaRoche back at first base and Bryce Harper, Denard Span and Jayson Werth ingrained in the outfield.
What, though, can the Nationals reasonably expect to get for Morse? The offers may not be as robust as you'd think, for a couple of reasons:
1) Morse is only under contract for one more season before he becomes a free agent.
2) Other teams will know the Nationals are desperate to trade him.
The Nationals recognize this, and they're likely to keep their demands modest, seeking not someone who will make an immediate impact in the big leagues but someone who could help them out down the road.
The organization's biggest need at the moment is pitching depth, particularly starters who could fill out the rotation at Class AAA Syracuse and be called upon in the event of injury to one of the five big-league starters. That's what general manager Mike Rizzo will be asking for in any trade discussions involving Morse.
The Orioles -- one team potentially interested in Morse -- have several pitchers who would fit that description, starters who haven't mastered the big leagues but have some experience and could be summoned in case of injury (including fizzled-out prospects Brian Matusz and Zach Britton).
The Mariners -- who also have expressed interest in Morse -- have fewer "Class AAAA" pitchers who would meet the Nationals' preferred specifications, but there could still be a match there.
The Rays seem like less of a good fit, given their general aversion to trading away young players for older ones, especially one who isn't under team control more than one season.
However this all plays out, the Nationals are realistic about what they can get in return for Morse. They probably won't get a big leaguer who will make major contributions in 2013. But they might be able to get the kind of minor leaguer who ultimately is asked to play an important role at the major league level.
140 comments:
I hope that if Rizzo does decide to resign LaRoche, he will trade Morse before that happens. Get an unannounced verbal agreement with LaRoche, then spend the next two days shopping Morse. It will strengthen the Nats bargaining position, since to the other teams it won't appear to be certain that Morse is redundant.
Still, it will hurt to lose Morse, who's really an important presence in the clubhouse.
What a difference a year makes. A year ago Michael was such a huge part of the Nats, and Nats Nation. After the Phillies game when the Nats sealed the NL East Championship and the guys were back out on the field, Mikey went down the left field line spraying beer all over the place. It is one of many great memories for me from last year. And his phantom grand slam is the most bizzaro play that I've ever seen. I have really enjoyed a lot of Morse moments, both at the park, and on the road. I'm gonna miss the big galoot.
The photo at the head of this article is the way I usually picture Morse, unfortunately. But, I do feel that it is unfortunate that the reason he would have to go is because of Werth. I hope Werth does well, but I am not a Werth fan by any stretch.
JoeS. I would miss the big galoot too. Sadly this is what happens when the music stops and there is only 1 chair left.
Anywho, get the Physical DONE! Geesh, they must be going over Haren with a every medical procedure known to mankind (and probably some new ones that Rizzo invented).
Don't be too hasty to bid goodbye to the Beast. LaRoche is NOT signed yet. If he takes a year deal when a good -year deal was available, he will have heck to pa with the player's union. It is FAR from certain LaRoche will remain a National.
Even if he does, the Nats will not give Morse away for nothing. If all the return they can expect is a Matusz - who is now a situational lefty reliever - or Britton - who was brought up too soon and may have had his confidence irrevocably ruined - then it would be better to not deal him at all.
Even if LaRoche signs, the Nats don't need to be in any hurry to unload Morse. They can wait until spring training when injuries and big market media pressure in New York to "do something" drives a team to make a better deal - or play 2-3 interested teams off one another to sweeten the pot.
This story is far from done and many outcomes are still possible, including Morse in the Nats opening day line-up at first base.
Morse would be expensive as a "hairy chested" pinch hitter off of the bench. But better to keep him for that role the give him away for peanuts.
I don't think Rizzo is going to pull the wool over another team's eyes - as soon as he calls to offer Morse, the other gm will know Adam is locked up. A AAAA picher sounds like realistic trade. Matusz might not be a bad deal as we need a lefty in the pen.
It seems like Orioles are the best fit unless Mariners blow us away with their offer. Getting a AAA lefty is the best bet I guess.
Yeah, what about keeping Morse as that player off the bench (we know from previous seasons he can do that well) and trading Tyler Moore? Wouldn't a young player like TMo get you more in pitching prospects than Morse would? Do we really need to keep TMo as the heir apparent to 1B if we think Rendon or even Zimm will eventually be there?
Squiffy, morse will be gone after the season. that's the dictating point I believe.
William Wallace wants a strong trade package for Gorse Hackage.
Looking at the possible returns, I can't help but conclude that I'd rather see him stay, even if we bring back LaRoche.
Is it possible that we keep him and get him almost Lombardozzi-level playing time and at-bats? Between 1st and left it seems like there would be plenty of opportunity to fold him into the mix to spell the young Harper and old LaRoche, and then to have that big bat off the bench that Davey likes to have.
I know having a guy like Morse play that sort of roll is really an embarrassment of riches, but after looking at our starting rotation I'm starting to realize that that is the kind of team we have.
I think we move him if there is real value in return. Otherwise I can see Rizzo keeping him here.
not an embarrassment of riched, but unfair to Morse. just like keeping Lannen around for another year with his minor league option when he had no room in starting rotation for us.
Morse' game has faults but he is a starting position player, not a bench player.
For a team that's not looking to make a long-term financial commitment, Morse's one year isn't necessarily a minus--it limits the upside but also the downside of the deal, esp. given his propensity for injury.
For the Nats, $6.75M is a lot to pay for a bench player. But if Morse is an everyday player elsewhere, either as DH or in the field, he won't be a bargain, but should be a pretty decent return on investment.
About giving up TMo - he might have more upside for another club, but the same is true for the Nats, and he comes at something like 1/16 Morse's cost. I don't see Rizzo giving him up.
The bigger question, though, is if Morse is gone then who will adopt one AB of Take On Me in honor of the Beast? I nominate Desi. I don't know if I can handle not having the opportunity to poorly sing falsetto and amuse the people around me.
Agree Jimmy. Rizzo is not gonna just give away Morse. If the right value comes along....yes. If not, I think Morse will be right here, and thats pretty good insurance against an injury to one of the regulars
@Faraz, I can see what you mean, but if he isn't good enough to crack our starting lineup (and I don't think anyone is arguing he deserves to start over Harper or LaRoche), he's under team control and I think worth more in that role than as trade bait, then that's the breaks.
It's not like we'd be dropping him to AAA like Lannan - I think that is a very apples to oranges comparison. He's on the team, he's getting significant playing time even if not starting. And he gets to be an important piece of a team that is likely headed deep into the playoffs. I think Morse could live with it for a year.
Again, this all assumes some other team doesn't back the quality prospect truck up to Rizzo's doorstep.
Rizzo has $6.75M reasons to trade Morse if ALR comes back. Payroll is going up but isn't limitless.
If you think Rizzo is going to drive up his budget with productive but over-priced part-time players, you might want to check in with Lannan, Gorzo, and Flores, and ask how that worked out for them.
I don't think that it really works the way Zuckerman laid it out. Clubs don't smell desperation and temper their offers from there. A player has whatever value he has and the market moves based on each club's perceived needs, trades, injuries, ST performances, contract staus, etc. So if the Nats have Mrose and ALR then the market could see a surplus and try to low ball the Nats into trading away Morse, but it is not as if there are not going to be several clubs in the running trying to pry the guy away either. We'll see.
I realize its not the popular opinion, but like keeping Lannan for the reason that it would have helped our team, I would do the same with Morse. Again, I understand these guys have feelings and it might not be the "right thing" but they are professional athletes and have signed contracts. Morse would be able to play both corner outfield positions, first base and I wonder if he worked on it in spring training if he could regain his skills as an infielder and become the ultimate super sub. He will never be a + defender at any position but his attitude and hitting ability can still help our club. I guess the key is if he pouts about not starting here, would that transfer to the other players.
Thinking from Morse's perspective, this year is huge for him landing that last big contract and if he is a bench player, even for a World Series contender, it probably does not help his earning power. I can't imagine him being happy in the role I projected above but I sure am not happy about landing the type of player Mark described for him.
Go Nats!!!
Jimmy, i think it is a mistake to think Morse can not crack our lineup. Morse is a 1B/DH type that should play for a AL club and in a stadium like Camden, I can see him topping 30 home runs. he just does not fit here, as a Rizzo type of guy I think. relegating him to the bench is expensive, unfair, and not rizzo's style.
Don't know if we need to get the AAAA arm; the M's have some lower prospects that are attractive. I'd rather we get a younger player with a higher upside then get a reclaimation project from the O's. Have to think as the spring progresss some veteran arm that are on the fringe will be available to add to AAA.
if they give us bundy, that would be nice. :D
Rizzo has to get more than Britton or Matusz, if Morse goes. Orioles have over-hyped their pitchers for years and these are the prime exhibits (suspects?). And no more Tatuskos, Roarks or Olbrychkowskis (sp?) either. Those guys are as valuable as a box of Chinese Rolexes.
Morse might be a one-year rental but he's a winner-winner, chicken dinner for a team that thinks they're a RH power hitter away from the playoffs. The Orioles probably fit that definition (they're pathetically stilling talking to Reynolds), maybe the White Sox and Mariners.
Get real prospects even if at the A, low-A level, not guys who'll need StubHub to see the inside of a major league park.
As for the money involved in keeping Morse for one more year, I wouldn't count against Mr. Lerner's willingness to spend a little more in 2013 than would be normally prudent. The man might not have many more opportunities to watch his team take it the distance.
I wonder if the Nats could get someone with a little bit higher ceiling than "AAAA" but maybe someone who is still early in their career.
btw a what if scenario: what if Dan Haren fails his physical with Nats? what do Nats do then? trade for shields?
Rizzo has consistently talked about the importance of depth over an MLB season. Can't see him giving up a .300 and 30 HR hitter (in his contract year no less) for an average prospect or 2.
I think the contract year part is a bigger incentive to keep him given the inflated numbers guys typically put up in their contract years and the idea that teams are less inclined to give up any good prospects bc he only has 1 year of team control.
There will be injuries as there always are and Morse will be there to fill in or give guys a rest 3 games a week.
A bigger question for me is about Tyler Moore? TMo deserves 500-600 AB's and still won't be able to get them. TMO is a 30 HR guy as well with a ton of upside and will be 26 yo next season. Would love to see him get a starting job in the OF or 1B, but that just isn't going to happen.
I must echo Unknown's comment @ 7:35. Signing ALR is not a done deal. It is a business...if Adam gets offered a third year..anywhere...I am afraid he will take it. Championship rings are nice but they don't compare to an extra guaranteed $13-15M. I think most folks are putting it 50-50 but I am more like 60-40 that Adam leaves us.
3on2out if a team like Seattle offers 3 years I think LaRoche would still come back here instead. He is comfortable here and his family already lives here. Uprooting them to move across the country for one more season when he has already made over $35mil in his career doesn't seem like something he would be interested in doing. At this point in his career he seems to be looking for the best place to win.
I think his market is closely tied to the Hamilton market. Once Hamilton signs then that possibly opens a door to Texas for him.
Championship rings are nice but they don't compare to an extra guaranteed $13-15M.
LaRoche has said different, and he doesn't seem like the type to say things he doesn't mean. Not all rich people are holding out for top dollar.
But the more we hear "Morse is gone" the more I start to wonder. Apparently, Mikey thinks he's gone, judging by his Tweeterizing, and barring injury, there's no way he gets enough innings off the bench, which by the way would kill any possibility of getting a pick for him when he goes Free Agent next winter. It's easy to sit in here and say "You signed a contract, you're getting paid millions, suck it up" and maybe that's even good advice, but that's not always how MLB works. These guys are proud, and there's a pecking order, and if he does get sulky, you're getting nothing, and nothing back when he goes.
And FWIW, I think the other GMs do base offers on what they think their counterpart will accept, not some objective standard.
Doug
You put your finger on it - TMo and Morse profile very similarly, and if ALR stays, it's going to be hard to find 500-600 ABs for one, let alone two.
So why would you keep both? And if you're only going to keep one, why would you keep the one who costs 16x as much and has 5 fewer years of team control?
William Wallace wants a strong trade package for Gorse Hackage.
That's our new slogan, for now at least. "A strong package for gorse hackage!"
Officially.
Let's not be naive. ALR is not leaving $13 -$15 mil on the table. If Seattle or for that matter Cleveland or any one else guarantees a 3rd year he will be gone.
A home town discount is a mil or 2 not a 3rd guaranteed year at full market value.
I absolutely agree with the posters advocating real talent vs. AAAA types in a Morse deal. You can find AAAA players and sign them as free agents. When you trade a bat as productive as MM you should get some real potential even if the prospect(s) are young a a few years away.
Add in that Davey loves Tyler Moore; Morse, maybe not so much.
As to ALR, who's to say that if Adam signs for 2 years that there isn't another year available to him somewhere if he performs and stays injury free? The money is crazy out there right now, and as more teams get the big media deals even more money will be available.
Davey likes to win the first half-season. Since MM is already a "rental," is it possible he stays until July, wins games for us, and then goes to another contending team for a need that we can't foresee right now? Let's assume that the qualifying offer is in the $14-$15MM range next year, and Rizzo would not offer it to MM. So MM goes at the deadline with a good chance to enhance his value on the FA market and no draft pick attached. That way the price for MM for 1/2 season is @3MM, and I could easily see him being worth that even off the bench.
This gives TMo an additional few months to work on his fielding and get his ABs in the second half of the season.
pdowdy83 said...
3on2out if a team like Seattle offers 3 years I think LaRoche would still come back here instead. He is comfortable here and his family already lives here. Uprooting them to move across the country for one more season when he has already made over $35mil in his career doesn't seem like something he would be interested in doing. At this point in his career he seems to be looking for the best place to win.
LaRoche's family doesn't live here. They live in Kansas and visit here during the summer. If he plays somewhere else for the next three years, they'll visit there. It will be a nice change of pace for them, like vacationing in a new city.
If LaRoche's priority was staying in DC to play for a winner, he would have taken the two year deal when Rizzo offered it. But that's not his priority. His priority is getting as long a contract as he can, wherever that may be. He (and more likely his agent) still seems to think that 3+ year deal is out there for him. Rizzo likes LaRoche, so he's doing him the favor of holding the two year deal open so that other teams don't try to get him on the cheap because they think he has no other options. But make no mistake, as soon as some team offers three years, LaRoche will take it. And actually, that's probably Rizzo's preferred outcome. Morse at first base next year is not much if any downgrade from ALR (overall, offense and defense combined) and if it's Morse then Rizzo gets the roster flexibility he wants one year sooner than if he's stuck with ALR for two years. Don't be confused by all the pro-LaRoche talk coming from Davey et al. Look at the reality of the situation. If there's ever someone that Rizzo wants, Rizzo goes out and gets him. He's not going out and getting LaRoche, even though LaRoche is out there ready to be taken, is he?
Although, keep in mind, a team renting him after the season starts cannot get a draft pick when&if he walks after the season. Has to be a full year, so his value is significantly diminished after the season starts.
Joe Seamhead said...
Add in that Davey loves Tyler Moore; Morse, maybe not so much.
Don't know why you think that. Down the final stretch and into the playoffs, Morse was hurting and Moore was healthy. Yet instead of resting Morse and giving Moore additional playing time, Davey was still writing Morse's name in the lineup every single day.
If we do end up trading MikeyMo to Seattle, do you think they'd give us Langerhans back?
Its easy. You trade T-Moore because its likely he never starts here nd he has much more value to get young farm system talent in return to replenish the farm. So wht if morse is more expensive for 1 year, the return for the future we can get for moore is much more worth it
It really is a no lose siuation. Morse for 162 games at first may have more offensive upside than ALR, but ALR is, clearly, the better defender. If ALR jumps at a 3 year deal, the Nats don't suffer. Rizzo is in a position of strength and he knows it.
Strong Package--In my mind, the system needs tweaking. The same qualifying offer amount for a position player like ALR (or Josh Hamilton) and a .500 pitcher like EJax because that is the average salary of 125 players??
A lot depends on whether Morse can keep himself healthy, and he knows that.
As of right now, this is all a "what ifs" as Morse is still here and LaRoche is out hunting a team.
I feel the same way about Morse as I did about Willingham. Neither is great defensively but both are clutch bats that can change a game with 1 swing. I would rather see Davey with Morse as role player on this team and big insurance in case of an injury instead of giving him away.
Greinke - It looks like the Rangers are the favorites now. I would have thought that the Dodgers would not be outbid no matter what but maybe Greinke doesn't want the Rangers.
If the Rangers sign Greinke they are likely out of the Hamilton sweep stakes and will concentrate on acquiring Justin Upton instead for one of their short stops (Andrus or Profar).
This will likely send Hamilton to Seattle or Boston with Swisher going to the loser. I don't know where this will leave ALR.
I meant maybe Greinke doesn't want the Dodgers?
First, Squiffy, don't even write that in jest. Please.
Second, as several of you have written, the seeming assumption that Adam LaRoche is returning is more than a bit premature. Even if the Nats have given him a Christmas deadline, lots of parts are still in play around MLB.
Third, but if Mr. LaRoche does re-sign, the Michael Morse's eventual trade becomes a given. Period. The three questions become 'when?' (from a tactical sense, might it be better to wait until February/March?), 'for whom?' (which Mark Z's article addresses). and -- possibly -- 'with whom?' (i.e., could you package Mr. Morse with another player and get a better return?).
BTW; whatever happened to Michael Bourne getting a mega deal?
I don't think Boras counted on the Twins solving the CF problems for the Nats and the Phills. We may end up with Seattle and for less years than he had hoped for.
JD said...
I don't know where this will leave ALR.
December 07, 2012 9:56 AM
Where does this leave ALR? Almost the same place he was in exactly 2 years ago when he was again the last bridesmaid and not the bride.
Again, he is under-rated and still virtually unknown mostly because he is a very "out of the limelight" player. He isn't flashy. He doesn't smash long majestic HRs. His awards are discounted by many because Pujols and Fielder just left the NL and Votto was injured much of the year and Owners don't want to pay big contracts for a player who doesn't sell tickets. That's a reality.
The Braves traded him as a budding star to play an unknown Rookie who never made it. The Red Sox traded him after 9 days. Arizona didn't care to bring him back after he put up good numbers in his 1 season there. His resume' reads like a journeyman, yet he's a real good player who nobody is clamoring for except in DC.
Not sure where the mystery is.
That's a really good analysis ghost. I am afraid that in the end some second division team who strikes out on the big names will come calling with a 3 year deal. The 3 year deals are the norm this year; they are throwing around big money but not big years.
Seattle seems to be in on all the big name hitters but so far no one seems to want to go there. Once Hamilton and Swisher pick their teams they may go hard after the likes of ALR and Bourne. Baltimore is also very likely to land one of these guys.
Morse is the heart of the team. Trading him would be a huge mistake. LaRoche played last year for a contract; Morse plays hard every day, every play. Keep the money and fill in the bullpen with it. People forget how good Morse was at 1st base in 2011. Whatever the Nats could get in return is not as good as what they would be giving up.
Ode to the Beast
On pitchers - he feasts
Pay his salary
or Take on Me
Home or Road
He goes Mode
Save the Beast
Win the East
Shakespear...
I'm officially starting the Save the Beast movement. Send your cards and letters to the Washington Nationals, Attention Mike Rizzo.
JD said...
That's a really good analysis ghost. I am afraid that in the end some second division team who strikes out on the big names will come calling with a 3 year deal. The 3 year deals are the norm this year; they are throwing around big money but not big years.
December 07, 2012 10:11 AM
LaRoche is getting way over-valued by many here like he's Joey Votto, which he is not. His great defense is on the bag and if Zim could make decent throws like you expect of your infielders, any decent 1st baseman can catch a ball not in the dirt.
LaRoche was a .853 OPS last year and Swisher was a .837 OPS and is 2 years younger. I see Swisher going before LaRoche although a team could also put Swisher in the OF.
The best point of LaRoche's career was when he was 26 years old and the Braves traded him. He slashed a career high .285/.354/.561/.915 That trade was still mind-boggling to me as LaRoche had 3 years of team control left and was proving to be one of the better 1st baseman.
If a GM believes LaRoche will fall off of his .853 which he probably will, he can find much cheaper alternatives to get them to a .800+ OPS.
This is the 3rd time in LaRoche's career he has been to Free Agency and that says something on how other teams view him that the previous best deals he got was a 1 year deal and a 2 year deal. I said it before, LaRoche should have accepted Rizzo's 1st offer because the 2nd offer may not be as good.
this reminds me of all us clamoring to keep storen a few years ago at the deadline in the potential span deal
Ghost
Agree with a lot of what you say about ALR, except this: I don't think he's under-rated. I think this is a case where the market has it pretty much on the nose.
Look over the past few years, at any 1B not named not named Prince or Albert. What player of similar profile got wildly more than ALR is likely to get this year?
Look at his WAR. Even his career season this year, of 3.8 WAR, doesn't put him in the category of a marque 1B, and over his career, he's about a 2-2.5 WAR player for a season of 500-600 PAs. That translates to $10-12M a season, which is around what he's likely to get.
4571c960-cc1f-11e1-909b-000bcdcb471e said...
Morse is the heart of the team. Trading him would be a huge mistake. LaRoche played last year for a contract; Morse plays hard every day, every play. Keep the money and fill in the bullpen with it. People forget how good Morse was at 1st base in 2011. Whatever the Nats could get in return is not as good as what they would be giving up.
December 07, 2012 10:20 AM
LaRoche wasn't playing any harder because it was a contract year, its what he has done mostly his whole career. When healthy, he's fairly consistent.
But Morse has never been a Free Agent and the fact its his contract year probably will make a difference.
And yes, its been discussed that Morse's 1.002 OPS in 2011 when he played 1st base was excellent.
At this point, I would go with Morse and like you said, save the money for the bullpen. Chances are ALR will not repeat that .853 OPS and the bigger risk on a 2 year contract is staying healthy.
Ghost
The "undervalued" bit I was responding to was in your earlier post - the last one is spot on.
hiramhover, under-rated as far as the league as a whole. Clearly not under-rated in DC. I think per your stats he is slightly over-rated here. The biggest factor is age and Rizzo still has Tyler Moore in the wings.
Digit guy said:
Morse plays hard every day, every play.
.........................
Early leader for "most ridiculous post of the day". This clearly intimates that LaRoche doesn't. Again, ridiculous. Adam is the consummate professional...has been for years. '12 was a career year, but only marginally, as his #'s were in line with his career#'s. I love the 'Hacker, but LaRoche is far better, defensively, is comparable offensively, is a LH power bat, and (excepting '11) shows up for work every day, unlike Morse, who seems likely to miss st least a couple dozen games a year. Again, I'm fine with Morse at 1B, if that's where we wind up, but maintaining that he's a better fit, for two years, than Adam, borders on slander....
( This unsubstantiated opinion brought to you by bold is beautiful )
With their history of injuries to key players, the Nationals will regret trading Morse. Laroche missed almost the entire 2011 season and Werth missed a major part of last season. Morse is a valuable asset because he's a career near .300 hitter and he has awesome power. Granted, he's not the best defensive left fielder but he is certainly more than adequate at first base and he's a big stick in the middle of the lineup. Rizzo will end up having sellers remorse.
I have probably changed my own thoughts today on Morse vs. Monday as the time to trade Morse is in the heat of the battle which is the Winter Meetings. Seattle and Tampa were the perfect trade partners at the time.
Today, Morse's trade value has dropped and there is no reason you give away the potential Morse can bring this team at 1st base.
The difference between Morse's slash in 2011 when he played LF vs 1st base is astonishing. If he can get the Nats even a .900 OPS he should be close to a 4.0 WAR
Laroche is 33; Morse is 30. It is more likely we get a better offensive year out of Morse, and he really isn't that big a drop-off defensively at 1b. AND he will be a lot cheaper than Laroche. It allows the Nationals to spend more on their bullpen
I know Davey likes the righty/lefty thing, but the Nats are a better team with Morse at 1b.
If they do sign LaRoche, and keep Morse as insurance/bench, then either they go with a 7-man bullpen, or don't keep Tyler Moore in DC.
I can see Davey having a problem with only 12 pitchers, and stashing Moore in Syracuse, if there is no injury to bring him up, misses what could be a breakout season. Or not.
My guess is LaRoche smartens up and takes the 2 year deal from Rizzo if its still on the table.
Then the question is, what do you do with Michael Morse.
While LaRoche is out bagging bucks (deer), Morse is already in training for the 2013 season.
While LaRoche is out bagging bucks (deer), Morse is already in training for the 2013 season.
Yeah, but according to Twitter he's training today with Miguel Cabrera. That guy sucks!
Faraz Shaikh said...
"btw a what if scenario: what if Dan Haren fails his physical with Nats? what do Nats do then? trade for shields?"
It's not February. Every single option that was on the table before the Nats signed Haren is still on the table. Sanchez, Lohse, trades, and so on. No harm done if he fails the physical, other than losing out on a healthy Haren of course.
So it looks like my thoughts on keeping Morse even if LaRoche signs is not that far fetched. I just don't see why it is important to get rid of him when you think about injuries. I thought it might be bold of me to do so but maybe not.
Go Nats!!
So do you suppose, assuming the two-year deal is still on the table for LaRoche, there's a no-trade in it? Would suck for Adam if he had to settle for two years, and then got sent to Houston (or somewhere).
Don't agree that that Nats will necessarily receive less value for Morse simply because trade partners may know that the Nats are willing to deal him.
You think that the Orioles want Morse in the Rays' lineup? Similarly, you think the Rays want Morse in the O's lineup? Also, with the 5th playoff team in each league, even the Mariners could consider the O's and Rays as adversaries for the playoff spots. The point is that, if avialable, Morse is the best right-handed power bat on the market, and could be the difference between an AL team having an average year or a playoff year.
Rizzo thrives at the trade market. If ALR signs, there are buttons that Rizzo can push to get real value in return.
sjm308 said...
So it looks like my thoughts on keeping Morse even if LaRoche signs is not that far fetched. I just don't see why it is important to get rid of him when you think about injuries.
Davey would love to have both LaRoche and Morse on his team, and so would Rizzo - particularly if money was not part of the equation. But if ALR re-signs, there is no way Rizzo will turn Morse into Lannan and stash him on the bench or in AAA (if that's even possible) while ALR gets the majority of the playing time. Nor is he going to sign ALR for 2 years of $10M+ AAV as a role player or platoon guy.
But, you say, Rizzo optioned Lannan to AAA at $5M just to keep him around in case of need. Yes, he did. But Lannan was not in his last year before becoming a free agent, while Morse is. No GM is going to deliberately screw with a player's career by banishing him to the doghouse in his walk year. That kind of thing will resonate with future free agents, and the GM will never again be able to sign the good ones.
Ghost, that's not fair to Adam, we have no idea what he is doing besides hunting. He is not on twitter or into social media. Morse is on that so we pretty much know what he is doing everyday. (the honeymoon video was epic).
Back to my corner to sulk until this is resolved.
Sorry MicheleS but Adam is in the wilderness for days at a time.
And for the love of God, What is going on with that Physical?
Michele, shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Be vewwwy, vewwwy qwi-et. He's hunting wabbits.
Ghost, but being in the wilderness doesn't mean he is doing stuff to work out. For all we know he is chopping wood, building a fort or deer stand, log rolling in a creek, or whatever. Can't assume he is doing nothing just because we don't know what he is doing every second of the day.
Again.. back to the corner to sulk.
If Morse has to go (not that I'm advocating that) and one assumes seattle is (arguably) the best match-up (which I believe), then I have two words for you: Charlie Furbush. (also like Carter Capps)
For all we know he is chopping wood, building a fort or deer stand, log rolling in a creek, or whatever.
Babe Ruth used to do stuff like this in the offseason to stay in shape. That story that he did it all on beer and hot dogs is a myth.
Rizzo does seem to have Billy Beane on speed-dial. Just saying.
Given the discussion about bolstering the minor league depth, folks might want to see Fangraphs today, which profiled the Nats top 15 prospects. Pretty sobering read, and it really shows what promoting Harper and Moore, the 4-for-1 Gio trade, and losing guys in the Rule 5 draft has done to the system.
The good news, of course, is that with so many guys under team control for awhile, there's time to restock the system. So I'm in agreement with the folks who would be looking more for a lower-level (riskier), higher-ceiling prospect than a AAAA starter. Those kinds of starters are *always* available for a quick FA signing, and there will probably be a bunch available via FA in May when the "call me up or trade me" clauses kick in for a lot of AAA insurance guys.
If the Orioles want to drop off Dylan Bundy on us for Morse I guess we could listen...
Hey a guy can dream right?
...on the "decimated farm system" front, it's also been impacted by a bunch of career-stalling injuries (Solis, Giolito, Rendon, etc)
Why would we ever consider dealing Morse to Angelos and the Orioles. If Angelos is still holding us hostage, with the Masn TV deal, I wouldn't think of helping the O's. When is this deal(TV)going to be finalized. Wasn't the TV deal suppose to be settled last June? Here we are getting ready to go into 2013, and no deal in sight!
Feel Wood (my absolute favorite screen name here) @ 9:36. Thanks for the info on Adam. I was thinking the only National that had relocated here was Jayson (and with a 7-year contract...why not?). I also thought Adam had a ranch or something out there in the fly-overs but I couldn't confirm that so I just kept my yap shut.
I don't want to jinx us but have you noticed we haven't heard from our friend Peric yet? Has anyone ever seen Hirohito and Peric in the same room? Please feel free to draw your own conclusions.
3on2out,
Peric will show up later. Kindergarten isn't out yet.
Morse for Matusz and accepting the Nats numbers in the MASN bargaining.
Quit baiting the trolls.
Save the Beast!
Sign J.P. Howell.
Bring DeRosa to camp.
Trade Chris Marerro for a sixth starter.
whatsanattau,
What's the latest on Marerro? He's dropped completely off the Fangraphs top 15 list I linked earlier.
Feel - I agree 100% that Morse should not be stashed in the minors, even if possible. My scenario has him playing whenever any of our outfielders or LaRoche needs a day off and of course full-time if there is an injury (which has happened the last few years). He also gives Davey huge flexibility as far as pinch-hitting with Tracy, and Moore. Again, I realize its probably not going to happen, I just hate to think all we are going to get are lesser players in return.
As for the money aspect, I think the Lerners have to understand that we are now in a totally different situation now and while its not my money I am all for spending theirs.
3on2out said...
Feel Wood (my absolute favorite screen name here) @ 9:36. Thanks for the info on Adam. I was thinking the only National that had relocated here was Jayson (and with a 7-year contract...why not?).
Werth, Ryan Zimmerman and Lombo are AFAIK the only Nats players who live here year-round. Lombo is from Maryland and Zim is from VA Beach, so basically they are still living near home. Most all big league players live somewhere other than where they play. A lot of them live in FL, AZ, SoCal, etc, where it's warm year-round, making it easier to work out, play golf, etc.
To my knowledge Marerro spent most of the year recovering from the hamstring/groin injury, but still knows how to hit. Still under 25, I think he could provide AAAA or bench value to many teams. But I have no real information....
I don't see Rizzo dealing Morse to the Orioles. Luckily Morse can be slotted in LF and 1st base so there are a few teams that could use Morse including the Texas Rangers.
Jayson Werth bought a house somewhere around here as soon as he signed.
Nicely done, my good man. :-)
Drew said...
William Wallace wants a strong trade package for Gorse Hackage.
December 07, 2012 7:52 AM
Invisi-slams rule
Beast Mode is cool
whatsanattau said...
Ode to the Beast
On pitchers - he feasts
Pay his salary
or Take on Me
Home or Road
He goes Mode
Save the Beast
Win the East
uh, Burma Shave.
btw, that was very nice, whatsa.
baseballswami, when you sign a longterm deal and you have school aged children it makes sense like Werth to make DC your home.
And that's me over there standing next to Unk.
UnkyD said...
Digit guy said:
Morse plays hard every day, every play.
.........................
Early leader for "most ridiculous post of the day". This clearly intimates that LaRoche doesn't. Again, ridiculous. Adam is the consummate professional...has been for years. '12 was a career year, but only marginally, as his #'s were in line with his career#'s. I love the 'Hacker, but LaRoche is far better, defensively, is comparable offensively, is a LH power bat, and (excepting '11) shows up for work every day, unlike Morse, who seems likely to miss st least a couple dozen games a year. Again, I'm fine with Morse at 1B, if that's where we wind up, but maintaining that he's a better fit, for two years, than Adam, borders on slander....
( This unsubstantiated opinion brought to you by bold is beautiful )
December 07, 2012 10:48 AM
Wait, I have to go stand in the corner now. I'm so confused. This commenting is very hard work.
Back to my corner to sulk until this is resolved.
UnkyD, he's called Adam Cool for a reason and people mistake his calm demeanor for not giving his all. It's the same rub on JZim and clearly not true.
But Lannan was not in his last year before becoming a free agent
Actually, as it turned out, he was. But your point is valid. The situations are very different. And Morse likely has more trade value than Lannan did. Rizzo messed with Lannan's career and earnings potential big time, for good reason, and I don't doubt he'd do the same to Morse if he thought it would help the Nats.
I think the folks who counsel patience are right. More suitors for Morse could develop as spring training approaches or proceeds. We'd all love everything to be worked out by Christmas time, but we'll probably be better off if a few things remain unresolved on Feb. 1.
For the record, I still think ALR ends up going elsewhere. He can be patient too.
Peric will show up later. Kindergarten isn't out yet.
Still flatulating from eating all those beans eh BeanTown? That and too much beer. You deserve a kindergarten joke slacker.
I think the folks who counsel patience are right. More suitors for Morse could develop as spring training approaches or proceeds.
Wow, some intelligence from room 222 at the high school. Who would've thunk it?
Rizzo isn't going to make a move unless he gets what he thinks he should for Morse. In spite of Ladson's tweets and Mark's claims. Anything could happen in spring training. Such as injuries.
In the end there is more value associated with the younger post-prospect types like Lombo, Moore, and even Bernadina because he is a left-handed bat. Lombo is a starter according to the FO, not a utility guy. They could use Rivero as the utility guy this season. Someone mentioned Marerro, he still might make a decent bench bat.
And the Nats do need an influx of new talent into the farm system at the low levels desperately. Otherwise they end up with projects, retreads and castoffs at the higher levels again.
They aren't going to trade Morse unless they are absolutely sure about what they plan to do.
peric,
I don't know who you are, but I haven't mentioned you or addressed you in any form. So not only is your 1:39 comment not funny, it's misdirected, too.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, everyone, please focus on baseball.
JB, ne "NatinBeantown"
I don't want to jinx us but have you noticed we haven't heard from our friend Peric yet? Has anyone ever seen Hirohito and Peric in the same room? Please feel free to draw your own conclusions.
Bandwagon fans like 3on2out deserve to root for the Orioles. You sound like an AnglelO's lover jackass. Why not go back where you belong?
Rizzo has $6.75M reasons to trade Morse if ALR comes back. Payroll is going up but isn't limitless.
For a guy with Morse's power even coming off the bench Hiramhover? That's a huge bargain!
The #1 thing will be whether Morse blocks playing time for anyone significant (e.g. Rendon, Moore). Its already been made clear to Aadm LaRoche that he does and will! Which is why only 2 years.
Morse is on the last year of his contract and is now over 30. But, he can play more positions than can Tyler Moore, Chris Marerro, and Matt Skole. He comes with a lot of flexibility and keeps in pretty good shape given his size.
Again, they could just as easily decide to trade Lombo, Moore, and the Shark ... and would probably get a great deal more value in return if they did.
Be nice to be a fly on Rizzo's wall ... looking at the depth chart he has on the back of his door.
Ghost Of Steve M. said...
UnkyD, he's called Adam Cool for a reason and people mistake his calm demeanor for not giving his all. It's the same rub on JZim and clearly not true.
----------
Note to blogger: we need a "like" button...
I don't know who you are, but I haven't mentioned you or addressed you in any form. So not only is your 1:39 comment not funny, it's misdirected, too.
My sincere apologies Beantown ... got JB mixed up with JD.
Ghost, your "Adam Cool" comment remons me of my Dad, describing DiMaggio to me. Dad was a lifelong Yankee fan (having seen Ruth & Gehrig's team play exhibitions at West Point, in the late 30s). He said Joe covered a lot of ground out there, but never seemed to hurry, and always got there in time. Like Adam Cool... No wasted effort, but always makes the play.
Smooooooth......
Like Adam Cool... No wasted effort, but always makes the play.
But Zim and Rendon are far better and both could potentially produce more offensively for far longer.
LaRoche can only play first base. These guys can play all the infield positions except catcher if they had to.
Okay, so it's 2pm on FRIDAY. What is going on with that Physical? I mean really? Are they mapping Haren's DNA at this point?
I am not opposed to Rizzo keeping him if he doesn't get what he wants. Especially considering, he would be a great option to have if either Laroche and/or one of our starting outfielders sustains a long injury. Even with no injury, he should get sufficient playing time as the primary backup at either first or an outfield position and a primary pinch hitter off the bench. We could always flip him or Laroche by the trade deadline for a team desperate if we don't need both.
Good stuff from Byron Kerr on National Det
I am boycotting work today, so be prepared for the links
Keep them coming MicheleS.
Thanks for not being deterred from posting links Michele. I, for one, appreciate them.
MicheleS, me two
Chris Marrero has 3 home runs in his 300+ at bats in 2011 and 2012. During that span, he has zero SBs and is slugging significantly under .400. His walk rate is poor and he is a liability in the field.
In other words, he is a non-prospect. The Nats would be lucky to get a bag of balls for him. Even with the Nats depth at second base, hard to understand to keep Marrero on the 40 man roster ahead of Kobernus.
Question for Peric: like you, I'm looking forward to seeing Rendon sooner, rather than later. But do you see the timing at all dependent on protecting his arb-elegibility? They had Stras wait, and then Harp, so I'm thinking, unless there's an overwhelming NEED for his bat, June at the earliest, no? So many things factor into projecting him.... If the light goes on for Danny, and he generates offense this year, then you can see the Zim to 1st move, maybe in '14/'15. If Danny is still swinging from the heels, maybe Rendon is the 2B, in '14, and Skole's big LH bat assumes 1B, in '15... Assuming good health though, I see this year as sorting a couple of things out...if they want Rendon on 2B, I can't see them not giving him a lot of reps and instruction, in 'Cuse, right? Wanna make sure, with his ankles, he has sound footwork, before tryna turn DPs, at the MLB level...
A lot of talent, seemingly ready to go, but it's still not shaken out, where to put everyone.....
The end of the "best shape of his life" meme? (Gulp. Bang!) Say it ain't so.
You will see Nyjer Morgan back here before you see Chris Marrero manning first base at Nats Park.
I never liked the guy. Slow, no power, slug fielder. In other words, he fit right in the Nats' 2007 plans.
Not today.
Get that slug off the 40-man and dare somebody else to sign him.
Amanda Comak @acomak
Dan Haren passed his physical. The #nats announce his 1 year deal.
1a. As long as there are ball players, that meme will live forever.
Adam Kilgore@AdamKilgoreWP
Nats make the Dan Haren signing official. So he passed his physical
SWEET. Let's get the press conference now.
You can breath again Michelle. I hate to say I told so but I told you so. When they made the deal they must have had a pretty good idea that he's fine.
JD, yup, all better, hate when things drag out (like with what is going on at 1b, but I won't start going nuts with that one until Xmas)
Nice news MicheleS. Better news would be to see Haren as a 2013 All Star and make Rizzo look like a genius.
MichelleS,
The thing is that it's really fine either way. We like both options and we probably can't have both so no need to stress there either unless you really want to.
JD.
Yes, but I want Drake to stay!!!!! Beast doesn't have any kids yet that I want my niece to marry.
New post -- Haren passed!
i know it'd sound creepy, but im curious as to how old the commentors on here are just to get a feel...
i can start (for anyone who wants) by saying im 20
Hope so. After all, it's a marathon.
MicheleS said...
1a. As long as there are ball players, that meme will live forever.
December 07, 2012 3:02 PM
Morse has said on his Facebook page that he does NOT want to sit on the bench in 2013. As much as he loves being a National, he would rather be traded than serve as a back-up player in DC. Honestly, it would be an insult to bench Morse at this point in his career. Davey Johnson has said that the Beast is "too accomplished" to sit on the bench. So, if ALR does sign, Morse will be traded for sure.
I get the argument behind keeping Morse even if ALR signs, but I'm not sure the math works with the 25-man roster.
8 Position Player Starters are set
5 Starting Pitchers are set
8 in the bullpen is Davey's preference
4 Bench players remain
1 of those bench players is the back-up catcher so 3 slots are left for Morse, Moore, Lombo, Shark, Tracy, and (maybe) Perez. Lombo is definitely in, so 2 slots are left.
Morse and Moore bring the same things to the table so I don't think it is both of them. I think you keep one and the Shark.
Maybe we go with 7 in the pen and could keep both or maybe Moore goes to Syracuse so he can play everyday.
There will be an Injury. Keep Morse up until AT LEAST the trade deadline next summer.
PamFromDC said...
Morse has said on his Facebook page that he does NOT want to sit on the bench in 2013. As much as he loves being a National, he would rather be traded than serve as a back-up player in DC. Honestly, it would be an insult to bench Morse at this point in his career. Davey Johnson has said that the Beast is "too accomplished" to sit on the bench. So, if ALR does sign, Morse will be traded for sure.
December 08, 2012 10:50 AM
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This would be crippling to this team. Huge mistake!
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