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USA Today Sports Images Edwin Jackson, like several other ex-Nats, remains unsigned. |
LaRoche, though, is far from the only Nationals free agent who has yet to sign this winter. In fact, the only ones who have to date are Sean Burnett (Angels) and Zach Duke (re-signed with the Nats).
That leaves a lengthy list of prominent 2012 Nationals who currently don't have employment for 2013, including Edwin Jackson, Michael Gonzalez, John Lannan, Jesus Flores, Tom Gorzelanny and Mark DeRosa.
Jackson is the biggest name of the bunch, but the veteran right-hander may find himself in a spot not all that unlike the one he was in last winter, seeking a long-term contract but perhaps finding lukewarm interest from potential suitors.
Jackson entered last offseason believing he could land a four-year deal. He wound up settling for one year and $11 million from the Nationals. Thirty-one starts, 10 wins, 11 losses and a 4.03 ERA later, Jackson is again looking for a long-term commitment from someone but has yet to find one.
There were a handful of reports out last night regarding Jackson, suggesting both the Rangers and Padres are interested in acquiring his services. FoxSports.com's Ken Rosenthal suggested Jackson could be seeking a four- or five-year contract worth $12 million to $13 million per season.
Is there really a club out there willing to make that kind of commitment to a 29-year-old with a career 40-41 record, 4.40 ERA and 1.438 WHIP? Sure sounds unlikely, and Jackson may once again have to settle for far less than he hoped.
From that list of free agents, Gonzalez is the only one with more than a sliver of odds of returning to Washington. The Nationals desperately need another left-hander in their bullpen, and they'd happily bring Gonzalez back at the right price. Their No. 1 target, however, appears to be J.P. Howell, formerly of the Rays, so Gonzalez may have to wait and see how that situation plays out before any calls come his way.
Then there are the three players the Nationals elected to "non-tender" two weeks ago at the league-imposed deadline. All are now free agents, and all remain unsigned.
Lannan will draw the most interest out of that group, with plenty of pitching-starved clubs willing to take a chance on the 28-year-old lefty who spent most of 2012 at Class AAA Syracuse. There should be at least a few suitors for Gorzelanny, with the Brewers among the clubs in need of left-handed relief.
Flores faces a tougher road ahead, having been unable to recapture the form he displayed in 2008 and early 2009 that had the Nationals thinking they had their long-term catching answer. The 28-year-old simply isn't the same player since suffering a major shoulder injury, and he struggled when asked to play on an everyday basis last summer after teammate Wilson Ramos tore his ACL.
Finally there's DeRosa, a wildly popular teammate and seasoned veteran who offers plenty in the form of leadership. But the soon-to-be 38-year-old utilityman hasn't made it through a full season healthy since 2009, and he wasn't much of a force at the plate last season when he was on the Nationals' active roster.
73 comments:
I just like our guys and would really like to see a role for Lannan
food for thought... is Pujols and Hamilton on one team the same as Winfield and an aging Reggie J. on the Yankees??
in other words... a bust
well on paper, they look like a pretty good team. then again, they were supposed to have won AL West on opening day.
From previous post:
'so Rangers will target ALR now? Kinsler to OF, Profar to 2B (or Andrus). Still keeps that 1b open for them I suppose which ALR can fill. ALR also provides them that LH power bat they lack unless they think mitch moreland can do the job for them.'
Hard to say, mick.Hamilton not giving the Rangers the courtesy of a call before signing with a division rival says nothing good about the man when you take under consideration the support that the organization gave him with his issues, going all the way to the team not splashing booze when they won the pennant a couple of years back. Goes to show you that loyalty is rare indeed in pro sports.
well said Joe
I think everyone is kinda busy signing up main actors before they go for supporting cast so I get why we have not heard much rumors surrounding these players.
Rangers or Nats, 3 years is not a very smart commitment for either team to make for Adam. We'll see how this shakes out. Anyone else burning out from waiting to see the end of the play?
In the case of Jesus Flores, I find it hard to believe that somebody can't use him. My guess is that he'll end up on a ML roster, though doubtful as a starter.
I liked the role that Mike Gonzalez played last year. He was a pleasant surprise coming up as effective as he did.
Gorzelanny will find a home, too. Maybe even back here at a reduced salary, though I really think that he still feels he can be a starter somewhere else.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/2012/12/13/4ca6855a-4563-11e2-9648-a2c323a991d6_story.html?wprss=rss_sports
New info on MASN
Another potential bit of fall out from the Hamilton signing - the Angels could decide to trade Mark Trumbo, who could supply some of the same needs as Morse or ALR, but more cheaply and with longer team control.
on MASN - thanks for the link, Gonat.
It just seems like another example of failure on Bud's part. They already talked to FOX about buying Angelos out over the summer, but that apparently fell thru. So they're using an i-banker to peddle it some more. Anything to save Bud from having to solve his own problems.
HH, Trumbo had a terrible second half, OPS of .630. I don't think he is worth much.
hiramhover said...
on MASN - thanks for the link, Gonat.
It just seems like another example of failure on Bud's part. They already talked to FOX about buying Angelos out over the summer, but that apparently fell thru. So they're using an i-banker to peddle it some more. Anything to save Bud from having to solve his own problems.
December 14, 2012 7:44 AM
____________________________________
I'm shaking my head also. FOX or COMCAST can do to MASN what Angelos and Cronies can't do which is turn it into a true regional sports network. MASN has very little original shows and the ones they have are so poor in quality the viewership probably doesn't warrant any advertising and low ratings. With higher ratings for the channel would come the ability to increase revenues.
If you use the new Dodgers deal with FOX as a starting point and do your extrapolation and interpolation back to the DC market, it has to support numbers approaching $100 million or more. Keep in mind the LA market shares 2 baseball teams while the DC market only has 1 team and the Baltimore market only has 1 team.
What would Rizzo do with an extra $75 to $100 million of new found revenue a year?
FS
Looking at half a season would be a pretty narrow view to take, but it might allow some other GM to buy low on Trumbo. He's 26 yo, still improving, and even with that slump has produced ~2.5 WAR for each of the last two seasons.
As we discussed yesterday, I don't think a team should count on getting a lot more out of ALR. It will cost a lot more in salary, and the Angels still look pretty desperate for pitching.
Who would've thought that Sean Burnett would be one of the stars of the free agent class? Looks like he has landed in a good situation.
Gonat, a lot of words saying nothing new... It looks like Selig and the rest of MLB are extremely frustrated with Angelos, but are impotent to do anything. Yet another reason why Bud Selig is an awful commissioner. He created an agreement that was extremely flawed from the outset and potentially crippling to one of the teams, and is now surprised that it is not easily resolved.
Joe Seamhead...yes, loyalty is indeed rare in pro sports, if not gone completely. Players and owners seem to always come out with "it's a business". Yep, loyalty is gone.
Not going to pat myself on the back but Burnett was the one player I wanted back even more than LaRoche. Main reason was, we didn't have his replacement anywhere in our system. I think Howell will fill that and maybe even Gonzalez but as Peric has mentioned, the only lefty in the pen right now is Duke and I am guessing he is filling the Gorzo role.
Another thing about none of our lads getting offers immediately tells you how we as fans over rate our own guys at times since we become attached. LannEn is the prime example. Yes, he will latch on somewhere but it will not be for 5 million dollars and will probably be a one year deal. With our lack of depth at starter I would have loved to have seen him stay but everyone talked about Rizzo doing the right thing in letting him go. I still disagree and would not have minded having him in the minors once again. (to LannEn, the advantage would have been another year of 4 to 5 million dollars which is really what alot of this is all about.)
Those of you who have dreams of player loyalty really have been too long at the dance. Before free agency, it was the owners who showed absolutely no loyalty to anyone but their pocketbooks. Now that role is reversed and has been for decades. Yes, we cheer for great plays and wonderful teams but please don't forget that money drives all of this.
Go Nats!! World Series or Bust!
Yep, lotta temptation out there in LA. Hamilton might wish he had stayed in Texas.
Another thing about none of our lads getting offers immediately tells you how we as fans over rate our own guys at times since we become attached.
------------
Disagree, here... The Nats FAs remaining are mid level guys, who pretty much need to wait for the big chips to fall, to find who remains interested. Says little about our evaluations.
Those of you who have dreams of player loyalty really have been too long at the dance. Before free agency, it was the owners who showed absolutely no loyalty to anyone but their pocketbooks. Now that role is reversed and has been for decades. Yes, we cheer for great plays and wonderful teams but please don't forget that money drives all of this.
Just remember what Jerry Seinfeld said. When you root for a team, you are basically rooting for laundry. The players change from one season to the next, it's only the uniforms that stay the same.
I have it on good authority there is beer in Texas.
Completely agree with SJM's last paragraph. But it is great to see players like Braun, Chipper, Zim who like to stay with one team.
I think all our free agents will find a ML home, but maybe not exactly what they're hoping for.
actually if I were Josh, I would take offense to Daniels' comments that he was disappointed. Rangers had a lot of time to work out a deal with Josh but he was clearly not their primary target. Even after losing on everyone else (greinke, possibly upton, and shields), you are still not in serious talks with a player. what does that tell you? I think just a thank you and best wishes would have been a better comment from rangers FO.
btw did anyone read Hunter's tweet last night,upset about moreno telling him they were tight on budget? i thought that was a bit unnecessary.
Forty percent of Hamilton's deal (the last two years, anyway) is the Angels paying him to not go back to Texas.
I would like to know the details of Sciosia's contract -- supposed to be through 2018. On top of these over-the-top contracts, how willing will LAA brass be to buy out 5 years of the manager's contract, plus the cost of a new one, if they don't get to the WS this year?
Cubs out on Anibal. How quick things change.
I think Daniels just sounded naive in complaining about Hamilton not bringing the offer back for him to match (or more likely he was just trying to make it look to his fans as if he was willing to make an effort when he really wasn't). Since he had been so public about wanting a chance to match competitive offers, he basically forced the Angels to assure that their bid wouldn't be shopped around.
I agree with some posts that we are indeed over-rating our players. Last year I was amazed that with the lineup we had, we finished with the best record in baseball. With some of the players we still have, I will be amazed again this year if we do just as well. Really, I can't see with a Zimmerman, Espinosa, Werth, Morse/LaRoche, and whatever catcher, doing as well. Amazing.
Ghost,
What is Jordan Zimmermann's contract situation? how many service years does he have? I mean if Anibal gets $15 mil+ for 5 years what is JZim going to cost?
I would try to extend him now a couple of years before he has total leverage. The bird in the hand argument may get him to sign a team friendly contract now.
Feel Wood said...
Just remember what Jerry Seinfeld said. When you root for a team, you are basically rooting for laundry. The players change from one season to the next, it's only the uniforms that stay the same.
December 14, 2012 8:38 AM
That's a great quote and that was my justification when Angelos ruined the Orioles to say the logo and name on the laundry and the relative geography is the only thing that was the same to the former greatness in Charm City.
Angelos ruined the fanitude I had there and once I had an alternative back to my former geographical roots as a Washingtonian I instantly became a Nats fan.
The team to the North is not the team I know and grew up with and it had nothing to do with winning, it had to do with the joy of baseball. Its all about Angelos greed, money and power and its disgusting that he still to this day is a puppeteer pulling the strings on what will be the Nats single largest revenue stream. Just like in the NFL, the TV and media contracts generate more money than gate receipts and merchandising in the new regional baseball networks.
Instead of the Nationals operating in a free market system and equitably being compensated like the other 29 teams in the MLB, the Nationals are the only team that doesn't have the ability to control their local TV rights.
The cost to the team is a minimum of $50 million and possibly as much as $100 million a year near-term. With a team filled with top stars and the best record in baseball, they have to sit and wait for MLB to work this TV debacle through.
JD said...
Ghost,
What is Jordan Zimmermann's contract situation? how many service years does he have? I mean if Anibal gets $15 mil+ for 5 years what is JZim going to cost?
I would try to extend him now a couple of years before he has total leverage. The bird in the hand argument may get him to sign a team friendly contract now.
December 14, 2012 9:31 AM
I totally agree with you. JZim is under team control for 3 more years and has slightly over 3 years service. JZim is Arb Eligible this year and what a great contract to use for the Nats to extend him and offer him up an Anibal 5 year deal and buy out his Arb years and 1st 2 years of Free Agency.
The Nats really have to start extending earlier in the process like they did with Gio.
By the way, JZim's agent is the same as LaRoche. Both are SFX clients as is Ramos.
Cubs out on Anibal
Well, they offer the guy $77.5M/5 years, and he says "I dunno, let me think it over." I'd tell him "Whatever."
And in sort of a counter-example to the discussion yesterday:
Ichiro Suzuki apparently enjoyed playing for the New York Yankees so much in 2012 that he is about to forfeit approximately $2 million to play for them for the next two seasons.
According to a baseball source who has been briefed on the negotiations, the Yankees and Ichiro likely will finalize a deal Friday that will pay the outfielder between $12 million and $13 million over two years and will keep him in pinstripes until his 41st birthday.
The source added that Suzuki also was being courted by two other teams, both of which were offering more money than the Yankees. One of the teams was said to be the Philadelphia Phillies, who were offering $14 million for two years, according to the source. The identity of the other team is unknown, but the source said its offer was $15 million for two years.
Four-letter network
But what I'm wondering about, re: Ichiro, is whether he makes up the difference by being in NY, with marketing, or is he already so much of a global brand that it doesn't matter where he plays, he gets the same endorsements?
And if Texas takes LaRoche for 3 years, where does Swisher end up? Seattle?
he wasn't much of a force at the plate last season when he was on the Nationals' active roster
You do have a way with words, Mark.
or more likely he was just trying to make it look to his fans as if he was willing to make an effort when he really wasn't
Bingo. That's sure what it sounded like to me. And I doubt the fans are buying it.
Ghost,
I think JZIM will be receptive to such a deal because that sets him up for life and if he remains healthy and effective he will only be 31 years old at the end of the contract and he may be able to score one more big contract.
BigCat. As someone who lived in Texas and California. The temptations are equal. And I would say Dallas has a slight edge because everyone thinks it's backwater they don't look for the darker side of the DFW area.
And it looks like the Tigers landed Anabel for possibly $80M. that is stupid money
"Strong Package"; There is beer in Texas but, at least in the D/FW area, its not as good as the beer around the DMV. Or even Viera!
I can see JZnn taking a deal that buys out his arbitration years, but wouldn't you want to be a stud free agent pitcher at 29 rather than 31? Look what Greinke got.
And look what Annibal Sanchez just got.
Sec 222,
Well that's the rub. JZim would have to sacrifice the 1st 2 years of free agency to gain the certainty of getting the big contract up front. This way if he has health issues or if his performance declines or if it's not quite up to ace standards you still get big money.
Some players like this approach while others like to gamble and reach free agency as soon as they can.
JD, agreed that that's the rub. JZnn will still get big money if he just agrees to forgo his three arbitration years. And since he's just coming into his own as a quasi ace, the payday at 29 could very well dwarf what he could get for those two prime seasons now.
I doubt a big bull like JZnn, fully recovered from TJ surgery, is too worried about health issues or declining performance in his age 29 and 30 seasons. And three years of being part of the best rotation in baseball, as well as pitching in the postseason (knock on wood) will only make him more valuable when he hits free agency.
I could be wrong about his thinking of course. Gio signed a contract that covered some of his free agency. So maybe JZnn will want some certainty. I sure hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.
Time will tell whether the Lerners have a desire to build a dynasty by signing our young stars as they hit, or before they hit, free agency. In the meantime, we have at least three years of great baseball to watch, thank goodness.
At least Sanchez is better than A.J. Burnett.
So now Lohse is the at the top of the FA pitcher available; he won't get the years Anibal got because he's older; after that it's EJax and Marcum etc.
On the hitting front there's Bourne, Swisher and LaRoche.
I think things will move quickly now. I think Seattle is anxious to sign somebody (Bourne?) and I think Philly (Swisher?) will also sign someone.
I think in the end ALR will have to choose between Texas and the Nats and I don't see Daniels handing out too many long term deals.
The Retired Journalist said...
"Strong Package"; There is beer in Texas but, at least in the D/FW area, its not as good as the beer around the DMV. Or even Viera!
Alcoholics generally don't care how good or bad the beer is. Worst case, they'll drink cough syrup or whatever else they can find. It's a disease, an addiction. There are temptations everywhere.
Look at what Gio did. He gave up some Free Agent years and the rest of his Arb years to be guaranteed money.
Free Agency looks great if you are the Top Dawg but the guys who are a few back aren't getting the Red Carpet treatment.
Its a gamble on both sides to do a long-term deal now and in JZim's case I know last year they very informally tried to do a deal with him but don't know if it was just to buy out his Arb years or longer. The only thing that makes sense to me is a 5 year deal or you might as well just roll the dice on the Arbitration.
I like what the team did with RZim and Gio and hope they try to do that with every core player. In the short-term it raises payroll but in the long-term you know you have the pieces tied up. If you can take this team with the core 5 years into the future, things look bright.
Desi, JZim and Det would be the core pieces to tie up for that 5 year period then Stras would be the next one and then Ramos.
Ghost,
I agree for the most part although I would like to see at least 1 more year of Det before committing long term to him (I am still on the fence as to whether is a piece of the core or not) and I would really not commit to Ramos until we see a full healthy year.
GoSM, I would wanna see more from Det. I am still a suspect if he can develop into a 200 IP starter, whatever ERA maybe.
Ditto JD. Let's not forget that Flores was our catcher of the future not too long ago. Risky business to lock up catchers long term. Just ask the Twins.
oops JD, did not see your post.
Sect222, my only concern with JZim is that the "L's" seemed to get him down. His run support per inning while he pitched in 2011 was the lowest in the Majors. It improved in 2012 because he had many blowout wins but in April JZim threw 4 games and gave up only 1 earned in all 4 games but finished the month with a W/L at 1-1 and probably should've been 4-0.
JZim's metrics with that 2.94 ERA and 1.17 WHIP says to me that he's a #1 on most teams and if he thinks that way, maybe he goes to another team for that. I've always felt that he likes being out of the limelight so we will see how it goes.
I believe JZim is probably the most under-rated starter in all of the Majors. Pay the man!
JD & Faraz, good points and as you know I was an outspoken critic on Det and now see a pitcher who found his winning formula in July and was the only starter who pitched well in the playoffs.
After that first start after the All Star break I immediately saw a different pitcher and immediately saw a new Detwiler. He corrected his flaw of over-throwing to keep up velo and for him to get to the next level is adding size and strength to now go even deeper into ballgames.
I agree we have to make sure it wasn't just a flash of brilliance but all he did was change his approach and he was like a real starter for the first time in his career.
Nats face off with the Tigers twice this year in 2 series of 2 games each. Odds are the Nats will still face Anibal at least once.
Reading Mark's discussion of E-Jax and the comments about Det, I can't help but wonder how we would have felt if their performances in the NLDS had been reversed (i.e., if E-Jax had thrown a gem in Game 3, and Det had laid an egg in Game 4).
I always liked E-Jax's athleticism and effort. I hope he lands softly.
So, on the MASN deal and any new deal or buyout. It will have to be not only a buyout but unfortunately some similar to the McCourt/Guggenheim type of deal. I am not talking specific numbers but Angelos has a huge equity stake and all control. To give those up he will have to be compensated fairly for that plus a kicker to make it worth his while. If MASN gets sold then I am not sure the Nats are better off if they are just trading one ownership group for another (FOX, CSN etc would want to takeover the deal).
So, what solutions does that leave the Lerner group? 1) suck it up. (sucks but may happen) 2) Offer a huge buyout. ($500 million seems like the number as that should work - $100 Million a year for five years is what they think their rights are worth.) 3) Ligate - MLB will hate it and I am really unsure they have a leg to stand on as they signed the deal and knew what they were getting into. or
4) Wait out Petey. When he goes to sell the team the Lerners force MLB to scrap the deal or not approve the sale. It may be 5, 10 or more years until Angelos sells and by that time the Lerners will have enough reasonable justifications in being hosed by the deal that they should have most MLB owners on their side.
Nats Enquirer has a post on the MASN dispute that quotes "a person who knows stuff" as saying that "strict interpretation of the contract favors Angelos, not the Nats". That is scary (and this is the first I had heard that so strongly).
http://www.natsenquirer.com/2012/12/
The Retired Journalist said...
"Strong Package"; There is beer in Texas but, at least in the D/FW area, its not as good as the beer around the DMV. Or even Viera!
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Feel Wood said...
There are temptations everywhere.
**************
As I think about it, the media focus may be the biggest difference for him. He's rich, fairly young, and famous--it's not like he can't get anything at all, any time at all, anywhere he plays.
Sec222, there will be many teams that will believe they can fix EJax and do what Dave Duncan was doing with him.
EJax should be getting signed shortly. It will be interesting to see if GMs will give him 2 or 3 years or more.
If he can get past his shakey 1st innings and find some consistency, he may finally live up to this potential that everyone keeps talking about. So far, he's just a #4 or #5 pitcher getting overpaid based on this grand potential and leaving his previous team with the fanbase wondering what went wrong.
So far 7 different teams and 204 starts is an average of 29 starts per team which is less than a full season of starts per team. Sad.
Will next year be his 8th different team? Probably.
I was not huge either way on Ejax, but what I did like, and this has nothing to do with baseball, was him holding his daughter as the team celebrated. To me, just a great picture!! I wish him luck.
Will next year be his 8th different team? Probably.
The harsh part may be that no one he used to pitch for seems to want him back, which is telling for someone with a rep as a model citizen.
Boz just weighed in on the MASN Deal
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/dodgers/2012/12/14/8d81d5ce-45ff-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_story.html
the link, for those of you on phones:
Dodgers’ spending spree means it’s time to get MASN deal done
DaveB said...
Nats Enquirer has a post on the MASN dispute that quotes "a person who knows stuff" as saying that "strict interpretation of the contract favors Angelos, not the Nats". That is scary (and this is the first I had heard that so strongly).
http://www.natsenquirer.com/2012/12/
December 14, 2012 11:25 AM
What's more scary about it than what you knew yesterday? The creep owns over 51% which gives him majority control. He has a contract.
That article acts like they got inside information. There's nothing new in there that I didn't know.
Angelos is an a$$hole of major proportion and he is the type that when you say the sky is blue will say its really not blue just for the sake of arguement.
He will disagree because he can or thinks he can get away with it. So far, he thinks he's winning and that's all he cares about.
Thanks Gorse!!!
I am wondering where this money is coming from that TV channels are able to sign these lucrative deals with teams.
about that Boz piece
He reports a precise $$$ value for the Nats offer to ALR--$25M, 2 years. Had that been reported previously? I recall seeing vaguer, "rumored/likely to be in the neighborhood of" sort of statements.
And Boz's argument--which seems to boil down to "other teams are spending like drunken sailors, so why not a 3d year for ALR?"--seems patently silly.
Newpost.
Given his substance abuse issues, he's better off not taking offense but rather taking care of his own business, imho. He landed a big contract. Move on and don't stew over the past.
Just another natsfan1a editorial*
*TM Joe Seamhead. Used with permission.
Faraz Shaikh said...
actually if I were Josh, I would take offense to Daniels' comments that he was disappointed. Rangers had a lot of time to work out a deal with Josh but he was clearly not their primary target. Even after losing on everyone else (greinke, possibly upton, and shields), you are still not in serious talks with a player. what does that tell you? I think just a thank you and best wishes would have been a better comment from rangers FO.
btw did anyone read Hunter's tweet last night,upset about moreno telling him they were tight on budget? i thought that was a bit unnecessary.
December 14, 2012 8:56 AM
Breaking: NBC Sports (and probably others) are saying Lannan has signed with the Phillies; terms not announced. Assuming this is true, 1. I'm delighted for John. 2. He'll probably do quite well since he doesn't have to face his own team. 3. I'm not going to enjoy rooting against him, but I'll certainly do so.
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