NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Nationals are holding firm on their offer to Adam LaRoche, with general manager Mike Rizzo insisting he won't add a third year to the deal but still confident he can come to agreement with the free agent first baseman.
"Our deal is where it's at, and I think we're going to stay there," Rizzo said during his daily briefing at the Winter Meetings. "We made that clear to him, that a two-year deal for Adam LaRoche works for us. I feel we've been pretty clear about that."LaRoche has been seeking a three-year contract, one he figures will be his last as a professional ballplayer. The 33-year-old, coming off a career season in which he won both the Silver Slugger and Gold Glove awards at his position, was hoping a market would develop for him that would put some pressure on the Nationals to up their offer.
But that market has yet to develop, and it doesn't appear it will. The Red Sox locked up first base for the next three years after signing Mike Napoli. The Rangers and Orioles don't appear to have serious interest. And the Mariners, while perhaps willing to offer a three-year contract, can't offer LaRoche the same opportunity to contend for a World Series title that the Nationals can.
Rizzo met with LaRoche's agent, Mike Milchin, upon arriving in Nashville and spoke with him again by phone Monday night. The two hadn't communicated again as of late Tuesday afternoon.
"I still feel optimistic that we can get him signed," Rizzo said. "He wants to be here. We want him. So I'm optimistic. ... I'm not going to put a timeframe on it. We've got our offer on the table, and we're not going to pressure Adam into doing anything sooner than he's ready to do it."
Rizzo may not be applying much pressure on LaRoche, but Davey Johnson certainly is. The veteran manager, who has declared 2013 his final season in uniform, made another impassioned plea today for the first baseman to sign a deal.
"Adam LaRoche is going to come back," Johnson said. "I mean, if I have to go to Kansas and take him and all his cattle to Florida, I will."
70 comments:
I am still offering to buy a side of beef from Adam. Hope that sweetens the deal. I know 1A was clearing her freezer out too.
I will order beef and have it shipped to my relatives in Fargo for Christmas. Just find out the ordering info, please.
ALR.....here are your options...2 years in a city and organization that wants you back and is set to contend right now or go to Seattle, drink coffee and rebuild for the next 3 years.
Gonat said...
Ruben Amaro on MLB Network in a Live interview. He says no way he will trade right now Halladay, Lee or Hamels. That puts the DBacks rumor for Justin Upton right in the trash can.
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Gonat, the funny thing about this, all the Phillies have at this point are the RUMORS. They have made no moves at all. they need OF's, a catcher until Chooch/Cheater comes back, and they need middle relief. They have done a big FAT ZERO on all of these. they are going to end up with backups and no "Impactful" players. They might get Bourn, but that will be after they pay $$$$ and tie up the payroll even more for the over 30 crowd.
Personally, give me Michael Morse in his walk year over ALR in his first year of playing out the string any day. And I wouldn't be surprised if Rizzo feels the same way.
If it is just to two years then I doubt ALR will be back. He should definitely be able to find a better deal elsewhere.
2010 was not his career year outside of 2012.
MicheleS, they have to play the game for their fanbase that want a big splash in Josh Hamilton or Michael Bourn. I hope they get neither. They did shed $22 mill in payroll after ridding themselves of Victorino, Pence, Polanco and Blanton and adding raises for Lee and Papelbon and a few other players.
What can they do with $22 million, I'm sure they are nervous as Ryan Howard gets a $5 million raise in 2014 and they aren't getting younger.
I guess they could get Hamilton or Bourn. Get your popcorn!
I have a freezer too.
But I like Gorse, too.
I'm so conflicted.
Candide, I think we are all conflicted.
For some feel good stuff (away from all this hagling over $$$), here is a link to ESPN video on Todd Frazier helping out in NJ after Sandy. Good to see the young guys stepping up - like Lombo did
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8709615
I'm with Lydia the Tatooed NatsJack... The world is not beating Adam's door down, here... Maybe, in a few weeks, he'll sign that two year deal, with a sigh of relief, because he'll realize this is where he wants to be, anyway.... (And there has to be a option/buyout compromise they can settle on...) And Adam is so smooth!! He might just maintain his excellence, and make us glad to pick up that option year!
I am still offering to buy a side of beef from Adam. Hope that sweetens the deal.
Are you offering to pay $10-12M? I think that's what it will take to move the needle.
HH.. if I had that kind of money I would be buying a lot more than Adam.
Keppinger wants 3 years at $12MM per year.
NatsJack in Florida said...
Just like he did at age 31 after a career year. NOT!
Same situation as Adam Dunn. Could only get a two year deal (and barely, at that) in 2009, then gets a four year deal when he's two years older in 2011. And that was coming off two years that were less than his career best.
The price is determined by the market. As long as there is one team other than the Nats that wants ALR, they can only get him by going three years. And they will.
I'm thinking that when/if the non-Nats market for Adam dries up, Rizzo would be wise to sweeten the offer a little beyond what Adam is willing to accept. Doesn't hurt to let the player feel like he didn't get beaten down to the minimum possible payday. ALR's been a good guy in the dugout, wouldn't hurt to do something to keep him that way.
And there has to be a option/buyout compromise they can settle on
ALR wants the security of a guaranteed third year. The only kind of option that gives him that is a player option. But Rizzo wants guaranteed roster flexibility after two years, which is negated by a player option. A club option gives Rizzo roster flexibility, but negates ALR's guaranteed third year.
Mutual or incentive-based options don't work either, because none of them can provide ALR and Rizzo with the guarantees they want out of the deal. There is no compromise position. You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to, let's call the whole thing off.
NatsJack, you are right but overall (average, OPS, etc) he had better seasons before. I don't remember free agent market in 2010. I barely remember D Lee, Pena, Kotchman, and Dunn as 1B candidates for Nationals. We can agree that for some odd reason Lyle Overbay found his 1B job way before ALR. There was clearly something wrong with the market back then. This time around, FAs are getting paid hefty sums. I mean Scutaro is getting 3 year/ $24 million deal as a 37 YO IF.
Rizzo does not give in to pressure; he digs in. I don't expect him to move. ALR will have to move and accept two years.
We should not write off the Phillies. This kid Ruf is a beast; Howard will probably be better; their pitching is good except for middle relief. If Utley is ok and they get some help in center and the pen, they could be tough.
I keep forgetting that if a team signs ALR, they give up a Draft pick. That seems to be a big deal now. That's why Boston bailed, all the guys that boston signed didn't cost them a pick.
Adam Dunn came to the Nats with a reputation thrust upon him that he had a bad attitude. He quickly became a fan favorite and never had a problem in DC except for the bad glove and K's.
When he agreed to be a DH, his market opened up.
MicheleS said...
I keep forgetting that if a team signs ALR, they give up a Draft pick. That seems to be a big deal now. That's why Boston bailed, all the guys that boston signed didn't cost them a pick.
December 04, 2012 8:09 PM
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Good point. One of those comp picks from Dunn turned into Denard Span. You never know what you can get in the 1st 2 rounds where so many superstars are picked.
Look in Round 2 of the 2007 Draft: Jordan Zimmerman, Giancarlo Stanton and Freddie Freeman.
I keep forgetting that if a team signs ALR, they give up a Draft pick. That seems to be a big deal now. That's why Boston bailed, all the guys that boston signed didn't cost them a pick.
Keep in mind the Nats had to make a pretty good qualifying offer to make that happen. LaRoche has never complained about the money its always been about the years.
Gonat, did he? I only remember his bad reputation as a fielder. Otherwise he was pretty well-liked I believe.
Boston didn't have to give up a first round pick, only a second round pick. Their first round pick was protected because they were one of the bottom ten teams.
Dunn never had a bad attitude. Rizzo still likes Dunn a lot according to many of the pundits and beat reporters ... just knew he was close to the edge as a player. Rizzo was right.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8712089/dale-sveum-chicago-cubs-manager-shot-robin-yount-milwaukee-brewers-hall-famer-offseason-hunting-accident
Robin Yount shoots Dale Sveum in ear in hunting accident.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3453059
Faraz - This was the Dunn story that dogged him for years and like I said, he positively changed minds when he came to Washington.
Given the money being spent on lesser players, hard to believe ALR has not yet been offered the years and money he has said he wants. If he has received such offers, he has not accepted any of them.
Davey's comments make it clear where he stands. Morse is not his choice for 1b. The longer ALR remains unsigned, elsewhere, the more likely it appears that Rizzo and ALR will work something out.
No "Danny's my guy" for Espinoza from Davey. Danny will be the "presumptive" starter at 2b in ST, but there appears there will be an open competition for the job, with Lombo, to determine the opening day starter at 2b.
Rizzo "has listened to offers" for Morse. Why would he announce that unless he is inviting more? Morse may be gone before the weekend at the earliest. If ALR does walk, Moore will be the first baseman next year.
Rizzo has already done the heavy lifting this off-season (assuming Haren passes his physical). The rest is house-keeping. Getting what he can for Morse, fleshing out the pen, maybe getting another bench guy, and restocking the depleted stock of minor league prospects.
Rizzo set out to remake the Nats based on strong pitching and strong defense. With a healthy Haren, he now has, arguably, the strongest rotation in baseball.
The Nats were already the strongest defensive team in baseball last year. They have eliminated the only major weakness in that defense and now have, arguably, the strongest defensive OF in baseball. If ALR returns, they will have, without argument, the strongest overall defense in the major leagues.
And the offense has been upgraded with a true leadoff guy, a contact hitter with plus speed, to replace the injury and strikeout prone Morse. If Lombo replaces Danny, add another contact hitter and subtract another strikeout guy from that lineup. The Nats will get on base more often, move up more frequently, and score more runs than last year. They will work opposing pitchers more thoroughly, tire them out sooner, and get to the opposing team's pen more quickly.
They will have 2 power hitters from the left side (Harp and ALR), two contact hitters from the left side (Lombo and Span), and 3 power hitters from the right side (Ryan, Desi and Werth), with solid batsmen (Ramos and Suzuki) in the 8-hole.
The 2013 Nats will be the team to beat.
that was on Ricciardi. He was being stupid for some reason.
Ricciardi was way off base on Dunn but old smears die hard. Once Dunn struggled in 2011 with the White Sox his passion for the game was once again questioned.
Dunn was the Nationals equivalent in stature to Frank Howard and definitely a fan favorite. Unfortunately he had stone hands with the glove.
Laddie Blah Blah said...
No "Danny's my guy" for Espinoza from Davey. Danny will be the "presumptive" starter at 2b in ST, but there appears there will be an open competition for the job, with Lombo, to determine the opening day starter at 2b.
That's not what Davey said at all.
"But I think Danny's going to come in this coming year with a mindset kind of like Ian Desmond came into this last year, and it's going to be his job to lose."
If there is going to be an open competition for the 2B job, that means that the job will not be given to either Espi or Lombo until the competition is over. That's what a competition is - someone has to win it. But Davey says the job is already Espi's, unless he does something to lose it. There's nothing Lombo can do to win the job. Espi has to lose it. That means there is no competition.
Natslady, the Red Sox didn't even want to give up the 2nd round pick for Adam. If you have a good FO/Scouting dept, draft picks are gold.
peric said...
Dunn never had a bad attitude.
December 04, 2012 8:21 PM
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Is that right? Never?
http://jockpost.com/buyers-beware-adam-dunn-horrible-teammate/
Adam should sign for two years at $18 M per year, put $6M in the bank both years, then sit back and watch the Nats the third year. Maybe Rizzo would also throw in a season ticket for the third year! :)
The Nats were already the strongest defensive team in baseball last year.
No. By advanced or old-school metrics, they ranked 7th or 8th at best. That's good, and I'm also hoping for even better in 2013, but let's lay off the kool aid.
Possible LOOGY:
William Ladson@washingnats
Free agent LHP J.P. Howell just told me that he would love to play with the #Nats. "I love their style and they are absolutely loaded."
Read your link Gonat. Doesn't show me he was a bad teammate. Sounds like the writer had a biased opinion because he didn't like Adam.
"There's nothing Lombo can do to win the job. Espi has to lose it. That means there is no competition."
We'll see. Davey's endorsement of ALR was unequivocal.
"But I think Danny's going to come in this coming year with a mindset kind of like Ian Desmond came into this last year, and it's going to be his job to lose."
Not so unequivocal wrt Danny. "(I)t's going to be his job to lose." Hear that Danny? You could lose your job. It's up to you.
agree with Sonny. Seemed like a biased opinion. For all we know, it might have been Ricciardi writing that under an alias.
Laddie Blah Blah said...
Agree with everything you said. Great post.
Feel Wood:
You are wrong. Davey certainly indicated there will be a competition but being a smart dude, he didn’t want to demoralize Espi....Managers say that kind of stuff all the time...but LBB is right...Danny strikes out way too much and can’t hit for average.
Wait a minute-- when Davey says , ( fill in the blank) is definitely my guy........well you know, it can be the kiss of death. Just ask the newly minted free agent John Lannan.
Here's the quote...
Danny Espinosa's name has come up a lot recently. I know you've always been a big supporter of him, but do you still see room for him to continue that maturation process?
"I talked to Danny. I understand Danny very well because he reminds me of myself. He's stubborn. But he told me in Houston the last month of the season, his goal every month is to improve a little bit. I thought he made giant steps this year. He's got a guy that wants his job and thinks he's better than him in Lombardozzi. And I like Lombardozzi also. Both had good years. But I think Danny's going to come in this coming year with a mindset kind of like Ian Desmond came into this last year, and it's going to be his job to lose."
SonnyG10, I never said any of that was legit on Dunn just that it has followed him and there's plenty of posts online on Dunn and just wondering how Peric can say categorically Dunn never had a bad attitude.
right on Swami
Washington Nationals - Michael Morse ·
· ..Nose is itching or is it ears are burning..either way...
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Morse with more strange posts. This is on his Facebook page.
LaRoche is getting 3 yrs someplace. I hope it is here.
Good compromise might be 2 year deal with 3rd year club option with a higher than normal buyout. Say $25 million for 2 year with club option for 3rd year at $8 mm with $2 mm buyout. Worse case for laroche and Nats $27 mm for effectively 2 years. If laroche happens to be best option in year three then it's a $33mm deal for three years.
Not so unequivocal wrt Danny. "(I)t's going to be his job to lose." Hear that Danny? You could lose your job. It's up to you.
That's true for every MLB player. There's no such thing as a lifetime appointment to a starting position, no matter who you are. Just ask Alex Rodriguez.
Is it the years or the money that is the problem? Does Rizzo have some master plan that he needs to clear up payroll in year 3? This is the guy who gave Werth a 7 year deal at age 31! Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for Mike Rizzo, but ALR was our team MVP, Gold Glover, Silver Slugger and in contention for league MVP. We were a damned good team last year. Why mess too much with it over a year?
A couple of years ago, many, many people wanted to keep Dunn. Rizzo let him go and the team became much better while Dunn floundered. I think Rizzo is doing the same thing with ALR--dangling a modest offer for the fans' benefit, but really having no serious intention of keeping him. I would think ALR can get three years somewhere.
"Yours to lose" does not seem a ringing endorsement. It says that Espi could lose it. I do not think they will stay with Espi through another record strikeout season regardless of his defense.
Your daily Boz
Koolaid
Just remember.. everyone has a bias. Riccardi may have been biased unfairly about Dunn, but Riccardi is still in baseball working for Alderson in NY. His opinion carries some weight or he wouldn't be employed by a team (see, Bowden, Jim for employment history on this one)
Laddie wrote: "Rizzo has already done the heavy lifting this off-season (assuming Haren passes his physical). The rest is house-keeping."
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Laddie's comment strikes me as exactly right, with the biggest (and most immediate) 'housekeeping' issue being 1B. The Nats are now negotiating with Adam LaRoche and his agent from a position of strength. They've got Michael Morse under contract for another year and he can certainly play 1B; not at the Gold Glove level, of course, but adequately. Adam LaRoche is certainly a better choice defensively, but the Nats -- correctly -- don't want to clog up the pipeline by giving him a third year on his contract. Either of them is going to produce roughly the same offense stats (we can quibble over the details, but the differences between them are within the normal fluctuation you'd expect in projected performance, so call it a wash).
Now's the time to simply let Mr. LaRoche make his decision, then move on from there with the rest of the team's immediate 'housekeeping' needs (e.g., relievers, stocking AAA). And, as someone suggested a day or two ago, if Mr. Morse is traded, perhaps the Nats can find another pitcher for the prospect pool, effectively turning the Denard Span trade into Morse-for-Span.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The ALR decision has more to do with Rizzo's thinking on Rendon. If you believe that Rendon (rated by many as #1 in his draft class before his injury) is going to be in the bigs in '14 at the latest, there's no way you go year three and the money it entails at ALR, particularly when you have so many players that will require extension dollars in the next several years.
Now watch Rendon get traded tomorrow.
Give Adam 2 years at $30k and a stadium concession for Kansas beef.
Gonat said...
SonnyG10, I never said any of that was legit on Dunn just that it has followed him and there's plenty of posts online on Dunn and just wondering how Peric can say categorically Dunn never had a bad attitude.
December 04, 2012 9:10 PM
OK, my bad.
Give him the three years, with the ability to buy out the third. I want to see ALR back with the Nats. I want to see the Nats have roster flexibility in the future, especially with the talent that is coming up. These two wants don't necessarily fit together. I would just rather him than Morse, better defender on the bag.
From ALR's POV, I get it. I would definitely not want to sign my last contract, just to get shipped out in the last year. If only we were an AL team...this being the only circumstance in which I have this thought.
Oh, and Angelos needs to go away.
And the offense has been upgraded with a true leadoff guy, a contact hitter with plus speed, to replace the injury and strikeout prone Morse. If Lombo replaces Danny, add another contact hitter and subtract another strikeout guy from that lineup. The Nats will get on base more often, move up more frequently, and score more runs than last year.
Laddie Blah Blah you sound EXACTLY like that aggravating Jim Giggleman Smart Ball SMALL BRAIN commercial that MASN had.
How did that work doh?
Stop. Espinosa is so far above Lombardozzi its not even a contest. And as for Span I hope Corey Brown and Tyler Moore move him as rapidly as possible to the bench. The Nats don't need Giggleman's Island anywhere in the lineup. It didn't work, will never work, and isn't Davey's brand of baseball.
Now watch Rendon get traded tomorrow.
Won't happen unless its for a pitcher like David Price. Right now talent-wise Rendon is under team control for a long, long time, Plus he should make the majors sometime this coming season. By 2014 he may be ready to start.
Enjoying the posts and the speculation. A somebody posted earlier ALR and Morse could work.
Also it strikes me that somebody would prefer to keep a prospect to a piece that has been missing since Tim Raines.
Give your head a shake.
Also it strikes me that somebody would prefer to keep a prospect to a piece that has been missing since Tim Raines.
How many world series did Tim Raines play in?
I think the two sides are talking the same language but aren't understanding what each other are saying. "We're happy with two years and that's I think we're we are going to stay" means, of course, they will for sure meet half way somehow.
Kind of like my nightly YouTube video night. I mean, who knew there was a Law & Order tv show in England called "Law and Order UK."
I've been watching it for a few episodes and I'm not picking up more than 70 percent of what was said. Same language, different words. At 11:25, thee is't "half 'level" .. on and on it goes.
there's plenty of posts online on Dunn and just wondering how Peric can say categorically Dunn never had a bad attitude.
Rizzo and Dunn still text each other. As does Stan K. Clearly Zimmerman wanted Dunn to stay ... not just Willingham. Did they say that about Elijah Dukes? Lastings Milledge?
The only thing Dunn had a "bad attitude" about was becoming a DH. And he did have problems accepting that role.
Managers say that kind of stuff all the time...but LBB is right...Danny strikes out way too much and can’t hit for average.
Uh Scott Margenau? Are you another bandwagon fan? Where were you when they were saying the same thing about Desmond and Davey defended him. Desmond looked a lot worse up until this year? And Davey even said as much and compared the two?
Go back to daydreaming dude because you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about.
Bandwagon fans ... sheesh.
They will have 2 power hitters from the left side (Harp and ALR), two contact hitters from the left side (Lombo and Span),
Corey Brown and Bryce Harper. Span will be on the bench eventually watching the drama unfold. Lombo's the one who will likely be traded by this weekend dude.
I suppose Dude is upgrade from moron. Let's check in next week and see if the all-knowing, and all-seeing Peric is still here or if Lombo is still a National.
Ooh, I like that. Maybe also a bull target in the outfield. Hit bull, win KS steak. :-)
sm13 said...
Give Adam 2 years at $30k and a stadium concession for Kansas beef.
December 04, 2012 10:10 PM
Can one turn on captioning on Youtube? I guess not. :-)
Unknown said...
I think the two sides are talking the same language but aren't understanding what each other are saying. "We're happy with two years and that's I think we're we are going to stay" means, of course, they will for sure meet half way somehow.
Kind of like my nightly YouTube video night. I mean, who knew there was a Law & Order tv show in England called "Law and Order UK."
I've been watching it for a few episodes and I'm not picking up more than 70 percent of what was said. Same language, different words. At 11:25, thee is't "half 'level" .. on and on it goes.
December 05, 2012 12:27 AM
Peric--waiting for Span to fail? That's a little hateful, pal. Pitching and defense win more than homers. Sorry. You don't have the credibility to be so critical of other opinions.
Dunn was an attitude case. He wasn't a bad guy, he just took nothing seriously. He was a big, easy going goof off. Not a winner. That's the attitude problem. Glad he's gone.
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