 |
File photo by Mark Zuckerman / NATS INSIDER Brad Peacock makes his first career start tonight at Citi Field. |
And the third thing, of course, is that Brad Peacock is making his first career start, hoping to bounce back from a ragged big-league debut out of the bullpen on the night Stephen Strasburg returned from Tommy John surgery. Peacock, who dominated at both Class AA Harrisburg and Class AAA Syracuse, doesn't seem like the type who would let that one shaky outing get to him. I would expect a solid performance from him tonight.
Typical lineup from Davey Johnson, the only exception being Jesus Flores behind the plate instead of Wilson Ramos (who will probably start tomorrow afternoon's series finale).
Enjoy the game and the conversation...
NATIONALS at METS
Where: Citi Field
Gametime: 7:10 p.m.
TV: MASN
Radio: WJFK (106.7 FM), WFED (1500 AM), XM 183
Weather: Chance of storms, 77 degrees, Wind 8 mph out to CF
STARTING LINEUPS
NATIONALS (69-77)
SS Ian Desmond
CF Rick Ankiel
3B Ryan Zimmerman
LF Michael Morse
RF Jayson Werth
2B Danny Espinosa
1B Chris Marrero
C Jesus Flores
P Brad Peacock
METS (71-77)
SS Jose Reyes
2B Ruben Tejada
RF Lucas Duda
3B David Wright
CF Angel Pagan
LF Jason Bay
1B Josh Satin
C Josh Thole
P Mike Pelfrey
257 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 257 Newer› Newest»So are we doing play by play in Mark's absence?
@Mark Z. "I would expect a solid performance from him tonight."
Mark, since none of the others have stepped up to grab the golden ring, maybe Peacock can.
Feel Wood said...
I know that's convoluted, but, Davey is (FINALLY) learning how to manage his bullpen.
He knows how to manage a bullpen, and always has. What he doesn't know is what he has in his bullpen to manage, i.e. who can do the job and who can't. That's why you see him using relievers like Slaten et al in ways that make it seem like he's trying to lose the game.
... he's trying to find out what these guys can do so he'll know whether or not to have them in his bullpen next year when it matters again whether the game is won or not.
==========================
I write this thinking Davey is doing a decent job so I'm Davey neutrally independent.
Now for my rant Feelwood, are you Davey's protector of his reputation? That is the biggest line of BS if you actually believe the smell you just spread.
He has McCatty and other coaches who were here before he arrived and has his advisors and stat sheets and video and he has been here well over 2 months.
Just more pathetic excuses.
I have a question for the NI universe -- several people said that Clip was not available last night because he went two the night before. My questions is this - on teams that win a lot - how many games in a row do the setup guy and closer pitch? For example - the Braves guys, Venters and Kimbrel - on a win streak do they pitch 3 days in a row? On a bigger streak, do they pitch 3 take one off, pitch 3 again? What is considered appropriate for a set up guy or closer, say,in a week? Is it innings, pitches, stress level of the situation? If you win 90+ games, how many of those will the set up guy or closer pitch in? I guess if they are not one -run games ( that is, not Nats games) then you have mop up guys. Are they just usually more than 3 runs ahead so that that it's not a save? It seems like the highest number of saves per year gets to be around 40, maybe out of 45 chances. Were the rest not save situations or were they deemed unavailable? I just want to know because of , well, next year we will need to know this!! I sometimes feel that our guys could be available, but don't know if we are doing things in a way that is pretty standard. I do feel that Drew should have gotten some innings during the losing times - he was pretty rusty.
carpe and feel - how hard is it to manage a bullpen when you've got about 20 guys out there? Of course it seems better now. I want to see the bullpen managed on the regulation number of guys.Then we'll talk.
GYFNG!!!! Let's get a win tonight and worked toward being better than last year (you know by winning the 8/9/10 games!) We can dream can't we?
Just because you've made up your mind doesn't mean the people who know what they're doing have. Just sayin.
Looking forward to another win. I'll even take another nail biter like last night. Dang! Drew is good!
Come on, guys. Bring it!
GYFNG!
While Davey is a founding father of computer use in baseball, he still is a firm believer in the old "eye-ball" test. AND he is a firm believer that HE can make a difference in how HIS players react in situations. This ABOVE ALL, includes the bull pen.
No.... Feel Wood is spot on in his assessment.
When ever you would ask Riggleman about the pitching staff in general, he would defer to McCatty... and the specifics were always left to McCatty and the bull pen coach to devise when determining a game plan for a given day.
Not so with Davey.... he runs the total show.... It's his team and he makes ALL the decisions. He doesn't give a rats butt what somebody did before. He figures if you're at the ML level, then you'd better know how to perform. If you don't perform, you'll be gone.
So, "Pluck the Day", Feel Wood's got this one right.
GYFNG! A win tonight, and a few more after that, will be good for the collective soul. Davey may not be playing for third place, but I hope our guys will be. Because that would feel nice in the depths of the cold, pasta winter when it feels spring might never come.
SCOOTER: thanks for the fan-mail address!
How great is it that we are arguing about the use of our bullpen? I am sure at this point last year we would have been lamenting the fact that more than 75% of the team was garbage and needed to be chucked.
baseballswami-
By no means am I the definitive word on this, but in my experience you will sometimes see guys pitch one inning three nights in a row on the somewhat rare occasion of a team playing three tight games in a row in which it is tied or holds a small lead late. But never four nights in a row. And never two nights in a row if the pitcher goes 2+ innings the first night- or really, more than one inning. And I'm less sure about this one but I'd be very surprised if they ever went three on, one off and then three or even two more on.
What the Nats do with their primary relievers is pretty standard I think. They probably give Clippard more work than most teams give their setup men, but Clippard's a converted starter who's never really had any injury issues that I'm aware of so I think they have a greater degree of comfort doing that than other teams might.
I agree that they should have given Storen a little more work during that losing stretch, and you and I are not alone in thinking that among Nats fans.
Not only that, but the bullpen has been a source of strength so we are arguing about something positive.
Looking at the schedule, are we going to start SS up in Chicago when the temp might be around freezing? I guess its all part of baseball and he needs to get used to this but is there any thought that they might skip him on that first time through the Windy City?
Most on here I feel are Davey supporters as I am and i dont agree with you NatsJack if you honestly believe Feel Woods comment on bullpen management makes Davey look credible.
I don't even know if Davey would agree with Feel Wood.
This reminds me of all the apologists for Joe Gibbs 2nd time at it.
My sense on Clipp is that it was a combination of the fact that he went 2 innings the night before, combined with the fact that he's already appeared in 64 games.
Who is this Joe Gibbs that you speak of? Oh, right. He managed that pointy-ball team.
How great would it be to land Jose Reyes in the offseason?
Morse is going to be on Intentional Talk
Re: Davey
What's amazing to me is that the anti-Davey ranters are even complaining about his use of a bullpen, when the bullpen did not allow any runs!
Like NatsJack said: "He figures if you're at the ML level, then you'd better know how to perform. If you don't perform, you'll be gone."
So, he picks Slaten to start off an inning. Not a bad choice if you need a lefty and Slaten's been shaky. After all, wouldn't you rather have the shakier guy come in with bases empty, than with runners on?
Slaten couldn't get the job done, so he yanked him out after two batters.
This is supposed to be evidence that he can't run a bullpen? Sheesh!
Davey is helping to set the team for next year -- which he considers much more important than getting to 75 wins this year, or whether the Nats finish in third, or etc. And so he's going to do things like let Slaten work himself into a good position for next year, or let Slaten prove he doesn't belong on the team. The evidence points to the latter, but the season's not done.
My thought (which I expressed in the previous thread) is that with two winnable games, Davey managed the first one with Clip in the 7 and 8 so that he would MAXIMIZE the chance for getting Storen (who had not been used enough) into a closing situation. He managed Tuesday's game to MINIMIZE the chance he would have to use Clippard (his most precious resource) again. He probably would have used Clip if Burnett got in trouble.
So he's trying to win both games, but not in the same way. He's not on automatic reliever "roles" but considers each game situation plus future games. Also I like that he is now using Coffey for one or two batters and did not bring him back in in either game for another inning. Now, a lot of that is possible because it's September, but it's fun to watch and second-guess. I mean, that's what we're here for, right.
JZimm in Chicago, Stras for the home opener.
I have been thinking about Dave Jagelar from last night.
Hey Dryw, if Ross isn't going to eat those cookies, I think he ought to give them to Jagelar. Coffey has clearly had enough, and Dave was looking even scrawnier than Ross. Plus, I don't think there are many Dryw's out there looking to make him cookies.
DC - I am a Davey fan, want him back in 2012, but there has to be a better guy to make that point with than Slaten, like maybe HRod. Slaten = older guy, kicking around the majors for the last 5 years or so, plenty of track record, so no new learning involved. There are others where we don't have that info. And since Slaten isn't any good right now, I would vote to keep that particular shaky guy in the dugout, rather than at the start of an inning.
Really, you will be gone if you don't perform? What is the excuse for Slaten then
You guys (and gals) -- especially if you've argued either way about Davey -- I beg your indulgence and ask you to read this. I think it may go a long way towards explaining many of our differences of opinions. I actually put a lot of thought and heart into this post, and I hope you find it's worth the read.
========================
If we take a step back and look at what we're arguing about -- I think we're missing a very important point that explains much of the disagreements. Folks who saw the interview after the game last night (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned and/or complained about it) saw Davey explain it.
The point is this: Davey's top goal this year is not to win games. He said he totally does not care if the team can grab third place, and he even brought up that his record as manager for the Nats is way under .500, and he doesn't care about that. He said that once you're eliminated from the playoffs, wins and losses are irrelevent. He said all he cares about is whether the team is making progress.
In other words, his primary goal is to put the Nats in the best position possible to make a run for the playoffs next year. And he will not subordinate that goal if it conflicts with putting the best team out there today, or best player out there. And that's why he kept throwing HRod out there (when many of us were ready to give up on him) -- a move that's already paying off, imho. (And may explain Slaten, or whoever).
We, as fans, of course, want to see wins. We live and die with each game. Davey and management, however, are willing to give up wins this year if it means an increased chance at the playoffs next year.
I know this long term strategy is tough for some to swallow. After all, we have folks on this board who were screaming in April that Morse would never hit (after all, look at his age, etc.), that Ian would never learn to field, and -- a most extreme case -- that Marrero should be sent back down to the minors, that comment coming after just a few innings of his very first game. (Think a 22-year old might have the jitters?)
And that is one of the major difference between Davey and Riggs. Riggs was in a position (or felt he was in a position) that he had to prove he was a good manager, as measured in wins and losses this season, and so he managed accordingly. Davey already knows he's a good manager, and Rizzo already knows that, and so Davey has nothing to prove, and so he can view things in the long run -- i.e., playoffs in 2012 or 2013 -- rather than the short run (getting to 75 wins, or third place, or whatever, in 2011).
Now -- you don't have to like this. And maybe you disagree with that approach. But it's that approach which Rizzo and Davey have chosen.
And, getting back to the arguments among us -- that's the approach which causes some to question Davey's moves and/or think he can't manage. The answer to "why did he put HRod in?" might be "because he wanted HRod to get experience in that situation" -- regardless of whether it would cause a win or a loss. And it drives many of us nuts. But it's consistent with the long term approach. (And it's that approach which makes measuring Davey's worth this year by wins and losses a silly exercise.)
The proof of this strategy is whether we're seriously better in 2012 and 2013. It's hard to wait that long, but that's how it is. The smart owners and GM's look long term and are patient as long as they see consistent progress, which is not always measured in wins and losses.
Agree on Slaten. If a questionable the guy is on your roster and you are evaluating him, you put him in the best possible situation to succeed (clean inning). If he succeeds, then you put him in tougher situations (see Rodriguez, Henry). If he doesn't, quick hook, because y'know, you still want to win the "winnable" games.
Agree winning games may not be Davey's "top" goal, in the sense of aiming at .500 or third place. But I still think he likes to win games--as he should.
Skinny or not Jageler can hit a baseball. Charlie not so much (report from the softball game).
Wasn't Joe Gibbs a memeber of the BeeGee's?
I think he was the one with the baritone voice that they didn't use much.
DC - good note. I would add that on the topic of 'Davey already knows he is a good manager', that he has the confidence to play whomever he thinks should play. Other managers often feel like they have to defer to the vets and play them at least some amount (because stats usually lead to $$), or risk a player revolt that ultimately hurts the managers credibility. I think Riggs suffered from that.
Davey's comment a few weeks ago that 'Pudge is a HoF and, since we are out of it, doesn't need to play, but Flores is a young guy that has missed substantial time and needs to play, and that is what I am going to do' was right on the money, and not something a lot of managers would have done.
Wonk - you are a wise sage..
But I still think he likes to win games--as he should.
Of course -- but if it conflicts with the long range goal, the long range goal wins.
Re: Slaten last night -- I have no idea what all was going through Davey's mind. It's possible that Davey had an idea that it might be a "six-or-seven pitcher night", because of CMW's exit, and not wanting to use Clippard. Further, he wanted to use a lefty, and so he wanted either Slaten, Severino, or Burnett. Perhaps he figured he'll use the shakiest one for a clean earlier inning, and save Severino and Burnett for either higher pressure situations or late innings. Which is exactly what he did while using all three.
there has to be a better guy to make that point with than Slaten, like maybe HRod.
There were two lefties coming up.
But maybe it had nothing to do with any of that, and more to do with trying to get Slaten to provide more evidence that he's either up to the task, or not.
DC Wonk
Very astute analysis. We,as fans, may not like the fact that winning the game may not be Davey's goal. After all, some of us have suffered (as Nats fans) for 5 1/2 years. The first 1/2 year they were here, they were pretty darn good (or lucky).
We all want to see a team that can contend as early as next year. Thanks for laying out your thoughts is such a logical fashion. (you must be an IT guy. Just guessing)
Morse was pretty good on Intentional Talk - they seem to like him a lot. It's nice that someone on a national baseball show is interested in a guy that is not from a ny team, boston or la. I guess the word is out on him now! As a Nats fan, I like it that he always has a big smile on his face and is a good representative of our team and city. I guess he is a face of our franchise now, too.
Anonymous said...
Morse is going to be on Intentional Talk
September 14, 2011 5:14 PM
_________________________________
I am so lucky I had my TV channel on the MLB Network. Michael Morse on my DVR!
Some pub for Morse the other night. I saw that Mitch Williams had him as the breakout player of the year. You have to figure MLB network guys really look at EVERYONE, not just the Yanks and Sawx, like the 4 letter network does (they seem to be only concerned with football -it pays their bills). So it is good to see our guys getting some Pub... Plus Morse looks like he is a bit of a goofball and that fits in with Millar and Rose.
Funny thing about my Post was that I wasn't being critical of Davey's bullpen management. I was critical of Feel Wood.
Haven't seen the bullpen management as a problem, its the personnel sitting in the bullpen that is a problem. What I am critical of is Feel Wood giving some lame explanation like he is speaking for Davey as if Davey needs it. Sheesh. Just lame.
Okay people, was over on WaPO and Boz put on his Nats Fan hat... wants us to shoot for 3rd in the division.. go read if you get a chance
Congrats to Desi on being nominated for the Roberto Clemente award! You make us proud!
And another coontribution by Matt Stairs that is paying dividends... Kilgore has a story about Burnett's move to the other side of the pitching rubber and who was giving him that feedback..none other than Matt Stairs (and Ankiel/Livo as well -I love Livo).
So two contributions from Matty.. A walk of hit and fixing Burnett....
A strike from Mike Pelfry to Desmond at 7:11, and we're on.
Hey Michelle, how about a link?
Leadoff line drive single to center for Desmond, and a couple of pitches in, steals second cleanly.
Anybody know why Ankiel has a bandage on his left elbow?
Michele, make that three contributions, as he left a first baseman's glove as well. (Can't recall who was fielding with it on a recent broadcast, but the camera picked it up.)
Thanks for the heads up on the WaPo piece. Will make a note to check it out.
Sec 3... I stink at this, but here goes:
Boz
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/washington-nationals-first-step-could-be-taking-aim-at-third-place/2011/09/14/gIQADP9SSK_story.html
Burnett:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/sean-burnett-moved-across-the-rubber-and-changed-his-season/2011/09/14/gIQAdpHoSK_blog.html#pagebreak
Here's your link . Off to the basement baseball watching lair now.
Oops, my bad. Seeee youuuu laaater!!
Tonight's Beverage.. A really nice Pinot Grigio from the top part of the Italian Boot.
Also for the VA wine drinkers.. I recommend the Petit Verdot from AmRhein
Ankiel with a full-count walk, but Zim pounds the first pitch into a 6-4-3, and Morse fans.
First MLB Start, Brad Peacock. May it be Quality Plus.
Here you go, Michele, in case you might want to try making one sometime:
http://www.hyperlinkcode.com/make-hyperlink.php
Sec 3.. the play by play of Carpenter's kidney stones??? Is this what you want to hear about???
Not bad.
Reyes fouls out to the catcher.
Tejada flies out to center.
Duda bides, then pops out to shallow left.
0-0 after one.
Nice 1st inning by Peacock!
I was hoping for a link to the Boz story, Michelle, but if you have pictures ...
Drink of choice tonight - Brunello di Montalcino. I'll let you know I'd I need the Maalox.
From Tom Boswell: "But how about doing some winning right now? Just a little, no heavy lifting required, as a prelude, a bit of practice and just for the radical novelty of the thing? Manager Davey Johnson says, “Getting young players established and winning can go together.” So, let’s see two weeks of it."
Nice to hear Davey say it because I have read 2 guys pound their point saying those 2 are not really mutually inclusive.
What was the quote "You play to win the game"
LoveDA, you are my new best friend if you can link me up with a nice brunello...
I was at the game when Riggs quit..the announcement came over the loudspeakers and myself and about 20 people or so stayed and watched the post game show...what a weird day that was..The just won 11 (I think) in a row and the skipper JUST QUIT? Slice it any way you want, but that's an embarrassment for an organization...i was all for Davey becoming the next manager but when i watch his post game pressers I'm concerned he may be a little too old to do it for 162 games..I know about Mckeon and I'm not saying he couldn't do it, but I'd rather have a younger guy...would I be angry or disappointed if Davey came back next year? No..but maybe concerned...you DEFINITELY don't want to have to replace a manager mid-year two years in a row.
Perfect time for Danny to drop down a bunt towards 3rd base.
*IF I need the Maalox
Maybe I should stop now. :)
@LoveDaNats... mmmm Brunello...yummy....I start drinking red when I turn off my AC...
You play.
To win.
The game.
Herm.
Edwards.
Wish Danny bunted. 3 swing and miss strikes and a few fouls.
Very impressive swing by Marrero. Looked very comfortable on that.
So who's going to see Moneyball? (sorry, that's the Brunello talking)
This Boswell last sentence is great, "It doesn’t mean anything. Unless they decide it means a lot to them."
Yah, where is the writer who said this is all "meaningless".
How can I do a search to find that?
LoveDa.. Going to see Moneyball.. it is getting some good reviews...
teh Google?
Carp, I think the 'meaningless' talk started after the game Peacock was a relief pitcher in. Search there.
So Zim misses a foul pop (not scored an error) and Peacock had to throw an extra 7 pitches. Another good inning.
Nothing thru 2. Peacock getting a lot of popups.
Seriously, Carpe, do you mean, who said it in here, or what writer? I know it was discussed in here about four days ago or so.
Yes but at least when our 3B made a goof it didn't put a guy on 1st base
Cooking steak & forgive me, drinking white wine. Get over it :-)
Baseball Wise-- I really prefer the manager & team play to win.. my money is real. My fan-ness is bonafide-- it feels crummy
Michael Morse singles in Desmond with 2 outs, after a walk to Zimmerman. Nats up 1-0.
Werth grounds an 0-2 hanger right over second to get Zim home. 2-0, with Espinosa up.
Beast and Werth come through!
Anon 7:53 no forgiveness needed, drink whatever you want with your steak... It's all good for the group that routinely is drinkin' bourbon and maalox
Go long, Danny!!
@Feel Wood said...
Why is it not a good idea to gather as much data as possible in meaningless games now so he can better decide who makes the cut next spring?
September 7, 2011 10:41 AM
Found it, thanks Mark'd! I should of known the "meaningless" comment came from Davey's talking head.
Seems Davey doesn't agree with his talking head.
Not that I care, but that was a bit of bad luck for the error on Wright--I'm sure the ball hit something, to come up on him like that.
I'm also sure Zimmerman would have had it cleanly. E-5 all the way, regardless. Both Nats runs are unearned for Pelfry.
That pitch by Peacock to strike out Satin was a Bugs Bunny pitch. SICK
Should've, could've, would've. Live and learn.
Walks the pitcher for his first baserunner.
and a weak grounder by Reyes.. SWEET
My goodness. Go ahead Brad Peacock!
(somebody call a cab NOW for Slaten, HROD and Maya. Better yet, make it a train ticket.)
Manager Davey Johnson says, “Getting young players established and winning can go together.” So, let’s see two weeks of it."
Nice to hear Davey say it because I have read 2 guys pound their point saying those 2 are not really mutually inclusive.
What was the quote "You play to win the game"
I never said they were not mutually inclusive -- I said that sometimes they conflict. That should be incredibly obvious to anybody who gives it an ounce of thought.
To give one incredibly obvious example: JZimm got absolutely pounded in four of his first five starts in 2010 (0-2, ERA of 6.75). That obviously cost the Nats games in 2010. Was it worth it?
As for Herm Edwards' comment -- big deal -- he's not the end all and be all of baseball wisdom, and, in any event, football is a completely different sport (where just about every team is still in the hunt for a playoff position with two games left in the season).
As for Boswell -- I think he's a great writer, but I strongly disagree with about 1/2 of what he writes, including this one.
And I think most people here agree with it.
Suppose you had to choose between:
(remember, these are hypotheticals)
(a) playing guys like HRod, Peacock, Milone, Wang, etc.,knwoing that it'll cost you a few games and it will cost you third place, but that some of them will benefit a lot and help contribute towards a much improved 2012 season;
or
b) not playing those guys, but you'd be guaranteed 3rd place
Which would you choose?
EXCLUSIVE.
MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
Why is it not a good idea to gather as much data as possible in meaningless games now so he can better decide who makes the cut next spring?
Although I'm not FeelWood -- the context is obvious: it's "meaningless" in the sense that win or lose, the Nats are not making the playoffs in 2011.
I'm a Jets fan, so I saw a lot of Herm edwards, and he was awful..you play to win the game? Against the steelers in the playoffs, at the end of regulation, he had Pennington take a knee more than once rather than try to get closer for a long field goal in Pittsburgh, a notriously difficult field to kick, and it was cold, and our kicker wasnt too good (he missed, and missed again in OT)..herm wasnt playing to win, he was playing not to lose...he had passion, granted, but not a genius by any stretch..my favorite Herm story was whe we either needed a win or someone else to lose to make the playoffs, and th ewhole week ALL he talked about was winning, not even entertaining the idea of backing into the playoffs..after the game (a Rams OT loss) he was asked about it and said "Who cares...we're in the playoffs" Classic.
anyway, it's a bull[stuff] hypothetical, because A) you can't possibly KNOW that--in baseball, nobody knows nothing--and 2) guaranteed third place?? guaranteed? Please.
The Horse is now dead.. can we stop beating it? Lets enjoy what we have right now! We only have a a couple of weeks left until we start the Hot Stove up...
DC Wonk, I just believe there are many people in NatsTown that have accepted a culture of losing and any excuse to live with losing is OK with them.
#1, I hate losing, any time any where any how. You do play to win the game and if you don't, why play it.
A DC Wonk said...
Although I'm not FeelWood -- the context is obvious: it's "meaningless" in the sense that win or lose, the Nats are not making the playoffs in 2011.
September 14, 2011 8:13 PM
Obvious to who? Are you now a talking head for Feelwood? The only thing you said that is obvious in a fact: the Nats are not making the playoffs in 2011.
I protest the culture of losing comment.. you don't read this blog enough to know that we agonize over EVERYTHING. We roasted Werth/Rizzo/Riggs/Desi and many more! We desperately want to win, but we also realize that at this point we aren't shooting for the playoffs in 2011, but we are looking for respectability
Sorry ... just catching up on the comments. Regarding the comment about Davey putting players in to see what they can do, even if it's not the move that makes the most sense to win the game, the example that comes to my mind is Matt Stairs. Remember when Davey kept putting him in and everyone was complaining about it? He put him in in situations where you would put in your veteran pinch hitter -- i.e., in the situations Stairs was hired for. Then, when he didn't produce, he was gone. I'm not a baseball expert, but that makes sense to me.
Was Joe Gibbs that baritone with the Bee Gees that never toured? Or am I confusing him with the Beach Boys??? Or maybe it was the Oak Ridge Boys... I'm confused....
Just because I do not comment often does not make me into somebody not in tune with the writings here. I stick by there are many that are accepting of losing and will make excuses for it.
Boswell writes it and quotes Davey and the talking heads think they can talk for Davey.
One thing I have noticed on here is that when a new poster goes against the grain, there are those Anonymous that come on to bust the newbie. How convenient ANONYMOUS
Sec 3, My Sofa said...
anyway, it's a bull[stuff] hypothetical, because A) you can't possibly KNOW that--in baseball, nobody knows nothing--and 2) guaranteed third place?? guaranteed? Please.
Of course you don't KNOW that. But can you at least see the point?
Recall my JZ example. He was awful for 4 of 5 starts in 2010 -- was it worth it? Heck yeah.
Is it worth starting Milone or Peacock even though they might fare worse than Livo? Is it worth playing Flores to see what we got, even if he might not be as good as Ramos?
Don't almost *all* teams that are not in the hunt for the playoffs do that kind of stuff in September? Why do you think that is?
RickH, why didn't Riggleman have the same DFA power? Riggleman did the same thing and couldn't get rid of him.
Was it worth leaving Peacock in after bases were loaded in the 4th, to see if he could (or to give him big league experience at) work[ing] out of a jam, even if that wasn't the "percentage move" in the short run?
(Yeah, fine, it worked in hindsight -- was it the best play to win the game? I dunno. But was it the best thing for Peacock's development? Yes)
The kid worked out of the jam... good to see..
Yeah, but, Sec 3 is the funniest.
Ok NI posters - working late yet again - tell me how Brad Peacock looks. I see goose eggs but on game day I also see baserunners. I trust your eyeballs more than anything. Assessments so far?
Carpe ... I guess Davey has more influence than Riggs had.
There isn't a person on here who thinks bringing up Milone and Peacock was a bad idea. There isn't one person who has complained about playing them. Both EARNED their way here as did Marrero and Lombardozzi.
That has NOTHING to do with MEANINGLESS. DC Wonk and the rest of the Senators culture are still trying to justify.
When the Phillies have clinched home field for the playoffs, they will have some games that lack meaning to close out the season as they will rest some of their players.
The Nats have 3rd place to go for. Its within reach.
Oh my, the kid sitting on Brad Peacock's dads lap starts picking his nose. Oh no..se
Rizzo in purple... proud as a "Peacock."
DC Wonk, who complained about leaving Peacock in for the 4th inning or are you still trying to prove a point you cannot make?
Swammi.. Looks pretty good..got into a bases loaded jam in the 4th but got the pop out. Throwing hard, getting mainly pop outs.
Glad Peacock pitched himself outta that jam.
Thanks for the live blog, Sofa, and the links, Michelle and 1a. And the thoughtful analysis, Wonk. Anyone got the link to Morse's interview?
And I actually, would choose third place. Not for me (well, a little bit for me) but because it's a long off season and we would spend it NOT in the basement. And that might be meaningful to whomever we might offer a FA contract.
GYFNG!
Peacock doesn't get the strike call which would have been a strikeout and Reyes gets a single on the next pitch.
Kid at this point deserves that call.
Uh oh....FA???
JaneB, you get it! Finally someone said it, other than Boswell. Are people afraid to say winning while you are playing callup players is very good!
That has NOTHING to do with MEANINGLESS. DC Wonk and the rest of the Senators culture are still trying to justify.
Hey Carpe -- please stop with the personal attacks. Don't presume to know what I'm thinking when I haven't said that and/or put words into my mouth. I don't believe there is a culture of losing here anymore, and there is know way I would ever trying to justify such a culture.
(And I never was, never have been, a Senators fan).
All I'm doing is pointing out that Davey has a long history of "short term pain for long term gain." I'm fine with that. And so is Rizzo. And probably most GM's are too, although not all of them are tough enough to stick to it.
How you get from that to "defending a culture of losing" escapes me.
Five scoreless, 2 hits. Not bad. Small sample, but it's beginning to look as if our starting rotation for next year might already be on board.
What a great inning by Peacock. 95 pitches so he may be done soon.
After that 2 out hit by Reyes, he didn't fall apart. Very impressive.
JaneB... I don't see the Morse Interview posted on the Intentional Talk site, but look for it on tomorrow on Nats Inquirer or on the WaPo Sports Bog.. they both usually get this stuff up pretty quick.
JaneB: "And I actually, would choose third place."
Really? You'd choose third place in 2011 even if it came at the expense of a better season in 2012?
(I'm' not arguing, just clarifying.)
Gonat said...
Perfect time for Danny to drop down a bunt towards 3rd base.
September 14, 2011 7:30 PM
________________
Glad he got a ugly bunt down!
JaneB, Carpe... count me in.
There's 162 games in a season..you don't manage to win every game as if there's no game tomorrow (unless you're Pete Ro$e, but thats a different story altogethr)..you have to manage for the next game and the next game...recall game 7, D-Backs and NYY..Schilling started (right?) and Tim McCarver was talking about how there was no way Randy J would pitch in relief..well, here comes the Big Unit to pitch in relief...would that have happened in game 39? Of course not...you have to think about the future, long and short term.
That Pluck the Day guy seems irritable.
DC Wonk, you are really pathetic. Keep driving you tired point. People are afraid of your bullying to disagree with you just so you don't pick on them like you just did to JaneB.
I will answer for her. There is nothing Davey will do to not play the youngsters so that Nats will win with them or lose with them.
The only surprising thing to me is that he isn't playing Lombo every day. Not sure why.
Carpe Diem said...
DC Wonk, you are really pathetic.
Bullying? Did I call anyone pathetic? You think I'm _picking_ on her?
Wow.
I know there is still a lot of anger towards Riggleman, but I think he really did the organization a favor but just pushing up the time frame. He obviously had nowhere near the juice that Johnson has, he was basically impotent and had no future with the team. By leaving when he did, the transition came the second half of this year - don't tell me he didn't know DJ would be brought in. If he hadn't left, all this crap would be happening next year. Davey not knowing the players and having to re-figure out how to manage and not liking the make up of the team. He has been given carte blanche by Rizzo at this point with the team to see what he wants to see and experiment to his heart's content. Riggleman would never in a million years have been allowed to do any of this stuff.He was expected to take what he got and be happy about it. Again - I think he did everyone a favor by just pulling the bandaid off fast and getting the pain over with.
Now boys, play nice!
I think Lombo is not playing everyday because Espinosa(rookie) and Desmond are young guys too. They need to keep playing too. Its not like the other years when they came up and they were replacing Kennedy, Guzman and others.
Actually... the "Pluck the Day" guy sounds alot like Peric..... Look out people.
One very nice performance for Peacock to build upon.
I am also of the opinion that there will only be one spot to fill in the 2012 rotation in a pick 'em from Wang, Peacock, Milone and Detwiler
Back to the Fenway topic (from earlier). This was on Boston's web site today: "Help us celebrate 100 years of America's Most Beloved Ballpark. Share your memories and ideas for commemoration of this historic mark." When the Cubs were in Boston last summer for the first time since 1918, the place was jammed with Cubs fans--who must have paid a truckload of $$$ for seats. Many came all the way from Chi-town. (The Sox are there next year--MLB knows a good thing when it sees it.)
Hey, c'mon Carpe Diem, stop with the name calling, lest this degenerate into a WaPo thread.
(And, yeah, I'm signing it anony because I _am_ chicken that you'll start calling _me_ names)
I will comment on Lombo. I think he needs to play a lot. Davey needed to sit him but now that he got that elusive 1st hit, play the man!
Big tent time (something we don't see in DC):
I can appreciate where everyone is coming from regarding meaninless wins, sacrificing for 2012, and winning now to make it to 3rd place.
Every fan base and every organization needs a variety of voices to be heard (hopefully respectfully and without malice). We need people to drive the present (Carpe and others) who want us to push our potential now and see what we can do today. And we need long term voices that see a little further down the road (FeelWood, Wonk, etc.) We also need analysis (NatsLady - you are my hero) and insider info (NatsJack in FL scouting the youngins')..
And we need laughter - Sec3 is always bringing it! Plus we have beverage info!
I know this sounds all cumbaya. But I love the fact that we can have these discussions and are not complaining about what a total crapola team we have (See Astros fans for that) and no hope ever (see Cubs Fans).
I for one am going to enjoy these last games. Hope for the win, but also look for the positive developments (Our young guys look good) and ignore the negative (DFA-Slaten).
Now if you will excuse me. I will find my rose colored glasses and get a glass of wine!
Swami,
I agree completely on Riggleman. The telling thing for me was McLaren's reaction to JR: "Jim, if you go, I'm going with you." The handwriting was clearly on the wall.
So, I've been following the game via the 'Net -- and I have the same question that someone earlier asked: we can see the line score for Peacock, ut, can someone who was watching him tell us if is pitching was as good as his stats look?
Wait a minute.... wasn't "Pluck the Day" the one solo the baritone Joe Gibbs sang with the Bee Gees back in 1979???
Jesus Flores is better than Ramos... needs more time.
I forgot about Lombo. Where is that young man. Espi and Desi can use some days off.
Mark'd .... Uhhh Monday???? Lombo drives in the winning run....
DC Wonk, Peacock threw well. Too many pitches for 5 innings as he was trying to nibble. he was throwing 92-94 with the fastball. Real nice breaking pitch. They said he threw a knuckle curve as well.
Oldguy said...
Back to the Fenway topic (from earlier). This was on Boston's web site today: "Help us celebrate 100 years of America's Most Beloved Ballpark. Share your memories and ideas for commemoration of this historic mark."
----------------------------
Given Moe Berg's link to baseball in both cities, I would hope the Red Sox could find a way to honor the catcher/spy when the Nats are in Boston next season.
NatsJack, i forgot about him like, where is he. Glad it was brought up.
Wonk....Peacock pitched up in the zone alot.... Not a whole lot of swings and misses with alot of foul balls that ran up his count.....But all in all, a good "grind it out" 5 innings.
Miss Iowa warming up in the bullpen
Steak was good. Wine is good. Nice breeze. Great ballgame. Life is good.
NatsJack, on Peacock, he also didn't get some strike calls low in the zone. Not a fan of the high strikes as those get deposited many times in the seats.
Gorzelanny really did a good job in relief. This is what confuses me on bullpen roles. Is Gorzo now an alternating setup man and no longer a long man?
Anonymous said...
Jesus Flores is better than Ramos... needs more time.
September 14, 2011 9:13 PM
______________________
Glad you feel that way because if scouts and GMs agree with you, the Nats have a good trade chip if they need it as Rizzo has said Ramos is his catcher.
I see JayFlo as a 1A if he continues to improve.
On Peacock, I am a little less bullish about the outing. Great results, no doubt, and he showed mental toughness by not folding or getting rattled by balls/strikes calls.
But I was expecting a little better stuff. FB seemed kind of straight, and the change up had good speed separation but I didn't see much fade. Curve moved over two planes, which is great, but he didn't seem to be able to control it that well. Plus, delivery seemed to have a lot of effort. He was getting hit more squarely the second time through.
I'd say it was something to build off, but I am hoping for more next time out.
As for catching...David Frietas is only two years away as well..... This is going to be fun.... starting right now.
Ditto NatsJack. Lots of foul balls. Seemed to have good command of off-speed pitches. Very promising.
Gonat...
It's an embarassement of riches when you have and HOF catcher sitting on the bench. How great is that? Especially considering the only catcher I remember since 2005 is Brian Schneider! I can't even remember the other guys (and I know there were many) who played that position?
Wally... I think everything you said equates to "grind it out".
If we had Johnny Bench, Tom Seaver and Ozzie Smith on the bench it would'nt do a damn bit of good. Just saying, a HOFer on the bench who's way past his prime isn't necesarrily a good thing...forunately Pudge isnt complaining (publicly at least)
What a strikeout of David Wright. Clippard all of a sudden is finding new ways to K hitters.
Yeah, probably right, but since I haven't seen him but the one other time, I was mostly focused on stuff tonight.
Is it too soon to say that I miss Dave Jagelar?
Scott..Let me clarify.. The fact that we have 2 young catchers who can play and are not relying on the HOF (past his prime or not -the man can still call a good game and still has the defense), makes me giddy!
Plus - NatsJack brining the info - we have another Baby Nat catcher only a few years away..
It's a really good problem to have when you have that kind of depth!
MicheleS.... and that's not even counting Derek Norris.
Wally, did you notice how Peacock wasn't challenging with his fastball? He went on the corners and top of the zone. When he wasn't getting the strike calls, he ran up the count.
He needs to watch video of how Clippard attacks the zone.
FA=free Agent
MichelleS wrote: How great is that? Especially considering the only catcher I remember since 2005 is Brian Schneider! I can't even remember the other guys (and I know there were many) who played that position?
What about Wil who? And the 9 minutes we had Paul LoDuca? And a Robet guy, about whom all I recall is when his mother died. But surely you remember Wil who!
Not feeling picked on. Love the cumbaya of this group, even when we disagree.
And may I say how much I love that Tyler Clippard...who wasn't much mentioned, the other day, when we were commenting on the best physical attributes of various Nationals. And there's a lot there to comment on. I'm just sayin'.
GoNat.... Peacock also avoided the pitcher's best friend...... STRIKE 1....he didn't have more than 5 guys 0-1.
Gonat- I didn't notice that, and I assumed coming in that he would be up in the zone, since I think he is known as a fly ball pitcher. But I should say that I think he did well, considering it was his first start in NY. It is likely more that I was very optimistic on him going in which led to a little disappointment.
Funny that you say that about the FB, though. I have been thinking that Drew has been a little shy about challenging with the FB lately
HenRod hasn't pitched since Sunday . Whats up
JaneB.. I blocked all of them out, since none of them (other than Schneider) is still in the bigs!
Wally, you said it about Drew and there it is. When you have a 2 or 3 run lead you have to go after that 1st batter. Can't walk Bay.
When did Drew Storen become Chad Cordero?
and you really cant walk Willie Harris.
Well, you can't forget Johnny 'Chips' Estrada. Those were the salad days: Estrada, PLod, Kory Casto, Odalis Perez, Nook Logan.
Gonat- I take no pleasure in it, though
Here we go with the Kardiac Kids...
Oh God.. WHERE IS MY MAALOX!!!
How tense is it right now? I hate Reyes
We get FP back again next year, don't we?
RICK ANKIEL
Holy Ankiel, Batman
He made the catch, he made the catch!!!
How can you not like Charlie!!
5 more wins please!!!
Rick Ankiel!!!!!!!!!
How about Rick Ankiel....!!!
Hmmm..where does Ankiel and his rocket arm and good defense fit in next year! Sweet.. We got to 70.. onward and upward
Ankiel is the man. That bullet throw last night, that game-stopping catch tonight. I'm glad he's on our team.
The announcers have it right. Ankiel misses that, and it is probably an inside the park walk off.
Tied for third, right?
On a night when Storen has nothing, the Nats still get the W. Fabulous, gutty win.
Congrats Brad Peacock!
How 'bout Gorzy with the bridge to Clip?
GYFNG!!
janeB - now that the game is over ..... a shirtless Sharkadina = Greek God!
I like Ankiel...boy would I love to see him on the mound.
For those of you guys (I think Andrew) is good at this... Apparantly Rizzo was on MLB Network at some point today talking Nats.. If anyone finds it - can you post the links?
I seem to recall that Drew Storen once met Chad Cordero and admired him. If you recall - Chief Chad was the worst at getting your blood pressure up! Drew shouldn't really emulate him quite that much.
Ray Knight "They found a pitcher in Peacock. 3 quality pitches."
Tied for third.
Mets 71-78
Nats 70-77
Niiiiiiiiiiiice.
FP has it right -- one of the measures of a pitcher is how you do when you _don't_ have your best stuff. Storen grinded it out and did it. He's awesome. (Yes, a big assist from Ankiel, but except for Reyes, nobody really made much contact).
Awesome job from all the pitchers. (And Marrero has quietly moved up to .311)
And, hey, a shout-out to all the pitchers. The Mets have the second highest team BA in the league. But the Nats' pitchers have held the Mets to 4 runs in 3 games thus far -- and two different games where the Mets got 4 hits or less.
Nats win! Nats win! That was some catch by Ankiel. Reyes did not look happy. Peacock, otoh, did, even with a face full of shaving cream.
we've talked so much about starting pitchers having to fight their way through a game when their stuff wasn't quite there. That's what Drew had to do tonight. Talk about having to throw " man pitches". He dug down and just gutted it out - with a little help from an outfield friend, of course. The pitching has been great - maybe it's time for the offense to step it up -- gee , haven't we said that the whole season?
Johnny really just said that Jose Reyes was going for the first batting title "since the Mets came to New York."
Now I'm irritable. How does he keep his job?
And now we return to our previously scheduled celebration that he made the catch!
Just saw the replay of Ankiel's catch - THAT is why you always use two hands!
Ray Knight just had some interesting stuff about Marrero's balanced swing. He was raving about it. (OK, Ray raves positively about lots of things, but he had some good evidence this time). Pretty interesting.
Wally said...
The announcers have it right. Ankiel misses that, and it is probably an inside the park walk off.
Tied for third, right?
September 14, 2011 10:11 PM
_______________________________
Yep and yep!
If Ankiel misses it, it goes to the wall and is easily a game tying triple and maybe an inside the parker!
You know what else is amazing, in these 3 games, the Nats have held the Mets to 4 total runs.
NatsJack, I was just thinking the same thing. Things that make one go hmmm....
A shut out, tied for 3rd, Drew's 37th save, Clippard not being human again, just enough clutch hitting,beating last year's win total on September 14th, taking a series from the Mets, a win for the rookie in his first start - where do I begin? Priceless!!
(@9:04)
Wonk, today Marrero looked very comfortable. Hoping to see a HR but remember Ryan Zimmerman also didn't hit a HR in 2005.
Is it just me, or are the errors back under control again?
Nice win!!! GYFNG!!!!!
In the pregame radio show Davey was talking about Ankiel as a center fielder--great speed, great arm. Davey said he is "young as a center fielder and hitter." He may be the answer.
Huh . . . you're right. I didn't remember that RZim didn't have a HR his first year. But, still, having _anyone_ who can hit over .300, even if few HR's, is valuable on _this_ team!
Marrero just looks at home and at ease - like he belongs. He also doesn't look like he gets flustered.Why did Lombardozzi beat him out for minor league player of the year? Is Lombo a better defender?
In honor of his play the last few days and absolutely my favorite walkup song this year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMLnDuzgkjo
5 More wins please!!!
Not sure that really worked so just go to you tube and type in Ram Jam Black Betty and enjoy the old fashioned rock and roll.
Rick Ankiel has a lot of value off the bench -- power, great arm, good jumps and glove in center. But his on base percentage just edges .300 so I wouldn't want to see him start in CF.
I still think B.J. Upton is Mike Rizzo's objective.
Jayson Werth's improving OPS -- .732.
B.J. Upton's improving OPS -- .734.
Rizzo knows the Upton family. Upton grew up with Zim in Tidewater and Rizzo thinks Zim would be a great influence. Upton is a 20-30 guy with a career on base percentage of .341.
An offseason deal with Tampa that involves some combination of Desmond and/or Norris and/or Marrero wouldn't surprise me at all.
Post a Comment