Friday, February 18, 2011

Is Chien-Ming Wang fully recovered?



VIERA, Fla. -- For all the attention Stephen Strasburg received yesterday during his first official workout of the spring, there was another Nationals pitcher drawing even more attention.

Chien-Ming Wang, a national hero in Taiwan, was followed by the usual throng of media members that chronicles his every move. These reporters have spent a lot of time in Viera over the last year, because Wang has yet to even pitch in a minor-league game nearly two years since undergoing major shoulder surgery.

Wang has been throwing bullpen sessions for several weeks now, but yesterday represented the first time the full Nationals coaching staff (and D.C.-based media) had a chance to see him in months. And the evaluations weren't glowing.

There are no radar guns out on the practice fields, but Wang didn't appear to be throwing anywhere close to full velocity. He has a slow, deliberate motion that can be deceiving and make it appear he's not throwing as hard as he actually is. But if you watch the above video from the fine CSN crew that has joined me in town for several days, you'll notice he seems to be throwing from a very upright position and not really extending on his finish.

The Nationals weren't expressing concern, at least not publicly.

"From listening to people talk, when I went out and watched him throw, I saw that he's pretty much throwing like they described to me," pitching coach Steve McCatty said. "I think it's important that every time out, he builds up. It's like anybody else coming in. His arm gets a little stronger. ... It's a step-by-step process. The surgery he had was pretty major. It takes time."

Indeed, Wang's surgery did not involve repairing the labrum or rotator cuff, the most common shoulder procedures for pitchers. His injury was to the shoulder socket, one rarely seen in baseball or any other sport. (Saints quarterback Drew Brees is the most notable athlete to have the same procedure done.)

There is no real road map for Wang or the Nationals to follow, because unlike pitchers recovering from Tommy John or labrum surgery, there isn't a set timetable to the rehab process. To be fair, Wang has made considerable progress since last spring, when he couldn't even throw off a bullpen mound.

"From what he was last year when he showed up to what he is now, yeah, there's been a big change," McCatty said. "He looks a lot better."

Wang also says he experiences no shoulder pain when throwing, which is obviously a good sign.

But one injury expert who watched the above video, SI.com's Will Carroll, noted a disturbing aspect to Wang's delivery: He isn't "pronating" as he releases the ball, a "turning over" of the wrist that leads to the kind of sinking action he needs to succeed.

"There's a 'hitch' in his release -- where he's normally been turning it over and making it sink, there's a discernible pause," Carroll wrote in an email to me last night. "That might be a positive in the long term -- he's thinking about a change and it will become more natural. On the other hand, it means he might not be able to make the pitch sink or get full velocity on it. It's not a good sign."

Whatever the case may be, it seems pretty clear Wang isn't anywhere close to being ready to pitch in the major leagues again. Only time will tell whether he can become comfortable enough to fully extend as he did pre-surgery, or whether he's simply going to have to be resigned to never regain his old form.

19 comments:

joemktg said...

Wasn't there a post-season camp last year (pre-AFL), attended by Flores, Harper, etc., where Wang pitched in intersquad games? Granted it was against the young players in the system, but I seem to recall reports that Wang was making good progress, enough to stoke discussion around his appearance this year. So what happened since then that he hasn't shown progress, or is this as good as it gets? Has he peaked?

One more point: yes he has had a deliberate delivery, but the video points to slow arm speed...very slow arm speed. You can have a deliberate motion with ML arm speed, but I'm not seeing the necessary arm speed.

Big Cat said...

My wife says I'm not "pronating" anymore also.

Big Cat said...

Seriously though, he seems to be slinging the ball rather than throwing it. Again, I have never seen him throw before. Its that old saying "The hitters will let you know how you're throwing."

Anonymous said...

Interesting reference to Drew Brees' surgery. I've read his surgery was given a 10 percent success rate. Not encouraging when combined with Mark's report.

joemktg said...

Just saw Mark's video on csnwashington.com from yesterday. There was a shot of Werth in the OF: he looks like a Wookie.

Mark: is it possible to add your radio interview schedule to the right side menu while down in Viera?

Doc said...

Great video by you and the CSN crew Mark.It lets us see some up close and personal activity.

Wang appears to be throwing like full delivery for his 'real stuff' is painful---hence the hitch.

VladiHondo said...

"joemktg said...
Wasn't there a post-season camp last year (pre-AFL), attended by Flores, Harper, etc., where Wang pitched in intersquad games?"

It was the Instructionals last fall that Wang pitched in, they bring a bunch of the better minor leaguers for in depth tutelage each October.

wally said...

Mark - great topic and idea to get feedback from Will Carroll too (hope that you don't get the Nats staff too PO'd at you).

Hard for me to make any conclusions from the video, but the takeaway seems consistent with Wang's comments about timing. Carroll's take is particularly concerning, but we knew that with so many injury rehabs, not all would work out and maybe this is one.

NG said...

How does Wang's contract compare to Shawn Hill's contract in 2009, where the Nationals were able to release him in Spring Training and only pay something like 25% of his salary?

This is really starting to look like a "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" type of situation.

Theophilus said...

We're all steeled to a lengthy Strasburg rehabilitation so another couple of weeks of patience w/ Wang is no big deal. No way a couple of innings in the Instructional League last October scraped off all of the rust. Everybody who's wanted to spend $300MM on pitchers the past couple of days should know that $1MM on Wang is a cheap roll of the dice on a two-time 19-game winner. Worst thing that happens is it relieves the traffic jam competing for spots in the rotation.

Theophilus said...

Incidentally, Shawn Hill is in the Marlins camp this Spring so may he's not done, either.

JD said...

It's incredible how people want to draw conclusions based on 1 bullpen session. If he returns in June and is 80% the pitcher he was it;s still a great deal for us.

Anonymous said...

He is REALLY holding back and thats scary for someone more than a year and a half out of shoulder surgery. 20 months later if he is still having that much discomfort I'm afraid I dont like his chances of ever getting back to the mound in a big league game.

Not that it matters to anyone, but I had a similar shoulder surgery that ended my college career and to this day (surgery about 7 years ago) I still cant throw a baseball more than 30 feet without pain. I hope he proves me wrong and Im certainly rooting for him but I dont like his chances.

Anonymous said...

I told you he wasn't going to be ready ...

Souldrummer said...

Apparently, Garrett Mock has a greater shot of making the starting rotation out of camp than Wang based on those shots. This is really good stuff to actually see them on the mounds. Do you think it's possible to get a shot from further away where you can actually see more than one pitcher in the shot? I'd imagine part of the reason you and the crew might have realized how slow Wang was pitching is comparing it to the zing of Mock right next to him. Plus Livo was even farther in the foreground. And if Wang can't throw harder than Livo we've got a problem for sure.

Gnashnail said...

Ouch. As a baseball player and former shoulder surgery patient, I *do not* like what I see. For comparison, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQtRvm3eRoY&NR=1 for a sample of CMW's full windup delivery prior to surgery, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBeC4Q2eJuk for a sample prior to surgery from the stretch. Watch Mark's video at 39 sec and notice the differences in arm coil extension (only just below the butt after surgery - much lower before) and landing foot/leg distance (less pronounced). You can see CMW is throwing from the waist. This a significant change in delivery THIS FAR post surgery at the MLB level. And it does *not look good* fellow Nats fans!

JamesFan said...

He's throwing like his shoulder hurts or he thinks it's going to. This looks awful to me and I, for one, think that a return to mlb as an effective pitcher is very unlikely.

Mark Zuckerman said...

joemktg said...
Mark: is it possible to add your radio interview schedule to the right side menu while down in Viera?


Thanks for the suggestion -- I just posted my weekly schedule for radio appearances on the right-hand side of the page.

Anonymous said...

Hey gents,

I sadly have to disagree with everyone's comments. One, everyone is working their shoulder in shape (Joe Nathan mentioned he hits 88 this time of year, when he regularly hits mid 90's.) Two if you look at the two videos below, the first it looks like the coach is working on his finishing, trying to get him to get his pitching arm down over his left knee past follow through. (clearly an unnatural motion for him). The second video is from an actual game, and though it as some distance to the video, its clear that 1.) he is upright throughout the delivery 2.) his back leg clearly drags through to follow through and 3.) his arm motion actually looks slow and deliberate, like in the Zuckerman video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-6-OcEmf_U&feature=related

and look at this game pitch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPosoxCK408&feature=related

and a third for promise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQtRvm3eRoY&feature=related

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