tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post6745844035534622431..comments2024-02-15T05:42:18.307-05:00Comments on Nats Insider: Nats show grit, but no one's watchingMark Zuckermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13525315258889435961noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-77273758859709716352010-04-26T01:31:12.532-04:002010-04-26T01:31:12.532-04:00After the opening day fiasco and two consecutive 1...After the opening day fiasco and two consecutive 100 loss plus seasons and the front office is getting the attendance they deserve.Obed Marshhttp://wnff.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-76821459195657748512010-04-23T23:49:36.788-04:002010-04-23T23:49:36.788-04:00Mark,
This item has fallen way off your screen I ...Mark,<br /><br />This item has fallen way off your screen I guess, but I'm coming in to this late to add a couple of points:<br /><br />- The Nats had around 25K tonight, in perfect weather, on a Friday night, against an iconic team (LA). I think if the team paid attention to a lot of the stuff that's been posted here, they would've had 35K tonight instead.<br /><br />- Local TV is KILLING the Nats. During spring training they would routinely report Red Sox or Yankees results or exciting March Redskins news and skip the Nats completely.<br /><br />- Tonight I surfed channels 4, 7, and 9. Here's the order of their sports coverage, with comments:<br /><br />All covered Caps, Skins draft, then Nats win over LA. I understand the Caps. The Skins coverage of draft picks is ridiculous.<br /><br />- The channel 4 guy said the Nats were playing in LA.<br /><br />- The channel 7 guy gave a big announcement about the UM spring game and said he would personally be there.<br /><br />None of the stations mentioned LA plays here tomorrow at 1pm.<br /><br />No one can tell me the Lerners and Kasten and company can't sit down with these station and ask them for fair coverage of our baseball team.Mr. NATuralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07141821148803701231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-49864241972786917222010-04-23T16:29:06.213-04:002010-04-23T16:29:06.213-04:00@Anon 3:23 PM, I wish you would send a letter to S...@Anon 3:23 PM, I wish you would send a letter to Stan Kasten himself, saying exactly what you just said. Your argument is eloquent and sound, and he needs to hear it.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243007019646325480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-33839018322798453192010-04-23T15:23:35.059-04:002010-04-23T15:23:35.059-04:00Thanks Mark--this will be my last post on this thr...Thanks Mark--this will be my last post on this thread. I don't know if there's any way for you to summarize/share this with Nats management, but I think it would be a good idea to do so.<br /><br />I would encourage the front office to address the Opening Day disaster one last time. I know it sounds like old news, but I believe that damage was done that day which is FAR from undone. Here's what I mean:<br /><br />In "The Tipping Point," Malcolm Gladwell presents a brilliant model for how and why things catch on (be they Hush Puppies shoes, reductions in crime, or the response of the colonists to the Midnight Ride of Paul Revere.) It is a fascinating book, and #1 New York Times bestseller.<br /><br />The main thesis of the book has enormous implications for the Nationals. The thesis is that key groups of influencers (nicknamed Mavens, Connectors and Salesmen) have VASTLY disproportionate impact on the public's impression of a given thing or product. Though their numbers are small, they have a gigantic impact on consumer behavior in the marketplace.<br /><br />This is where the Nats, and Opening Day, come together. ALL the Nats influencers were there--the people that talk about the Nats at work, gather groups of neighbors to come to Nats games, teach baseball in their communities, and follow every aspect of the team religiously. They were ALL at Opening Day--they had faked sick from work, got their kids out of school, invited out-of-state family members to their homes so they could all go together. And their EXPECTATION was that all the good tidings and good feelings from the Nats Caravan and NatsFest and all the other stuff would culminate at the Opener. Their expectation, importantly, was NOT that the Nats would win, but that all the things they love about Nats and baseball would come back into their lives again at the Opener.<br /><br />Instead, they were embarrassed, shouted down, humiliated, and in most cases felt betrayed by their own front office, all on the day many of them mark as the most important day of the entire year. Then they feel as if they got a pro forma, arrogant response from Nats management. In ONE AFTERNOON, many of these key influencers had moved from 10s on the enthusiasm scale, to 3s, 4s, or even 0s. This group is vital to the Tipping Point of overall community response to the team, because of their influence, network, and reach. There have been MANY calls for improved spending on Nats' marketing on this thread. My warning is that no amount of money spent on marketing can offset the damage done by insulting all your best customers. (Local readers will remember that when Hechinger's went bankrupt due to ignoring their customers in the stores, they still had a whopping advertising budget. Didn't matter.)<br /><br />I recommend the team address the issue again, say they're sorry and mean it, and start listening to these key Nats influencers in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-67379027776541913242010-04-23T11:07:04.762-04:002010-04-23T11:07:04.762-04:00Dave, I have had Caps season's tickets on and ...Dave, I have had Caps season's tickets on and off since the year Verizon opened. I know what the neighborhood looked like and how long it took for the area to blossom. But Verizon wasn't built in the middle of the worst recession in most of our lifetimes. That was my point. It will take longer for the area around Nats Park to develop because there's a glut of commercial real estate. And the irony is that the Lerners own a lot of the properties around the ballpark that are vacant.yazzy1956https://www.blogger.com/profile/17547480988367313462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-21251726280601530042010-04-23T10:28:23.356-04:002010-04-23T10:28:23.356-04:00Anon: Yes, I still read the comments posted on thi...Anon: Yes, I still read the comments posted on this thread. So fire away...Mark Zuckermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13525315258889435961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-81169069067216438732010-04-23T10:22:45.430-04:002010-04-23T10:22:45.430-04:00Mark--I don't know if you're still reviewi...Mark--I don't know if you're still reviewing this thread. I do have one more thought though if you're still reading. Are you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-28777562587485990932010-04-22T16:46:51.965-04:002010-04-22T16:46:51.965-04:00Cleveland really had the right idea, content the f...Cleveland really had the right idea, content the first year in a new ballpark. The Lerners should have spent, a lot more, that first year at Nats Park and made it a great, winning experience. Cleveland road that to consecutive years of sellouts. <br /><br />They really missed the boat that first year.JustSayingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-31172529635658451582010-04-22T16:45:40.451-04:002010-04-22T16:45:40.451-04:00@yazzy1956, you must not have paid attention to th...@yazzy1956, you must not have paid attention to the area around Verizon Center at the time the arena was built, and several years afterward. It did not instantly become the chi-chi Penn Quarter place it is now. That took about 10 years or so.<br /><br />If I am not mistaken, the near-Southeast area around Nats Park actually has a head start on what the Penn Quarter neighborhood was like when the Phone Booth opened, as far as development is concerned.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243007019646325480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-83913860047086706292010-04-22T16:37:49.298-04:002010-04-22T16:37:49.298-04:00Thanks 4:20PM
One other point I will make. Like ...Thanks 4:20PM<br /><br />One other point I will make. Like I read on these posts, I too had a 20 game package the first year. I hated that it was just 20 randon games and not some kind of Sunday only plan or the like (so if the team was in towm, you knew you had a game). Buy Year 2, I found a full season ticket group and took 20 games. Then I went down to 10 games. Now this year I was down to taken 5 games in the season ticket group, but will go to a few others too. Part of that is I try to get weekend games, because I live/work in Northern VA. Part of it, is now my son is over three and needs a ticket. But bottom line, I less and less have the desire to go to D.C. (during the week) despite my moto being a "a bad day at the ballpark, is better than a good day at work". <br /><br />I really believe, besides being beaten down with a bad product; than more and more people think twice before make the trip to D.C.<br /><br />My Two cents...Tcostantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-73572215973493175132010-04-22T16:32:45.958-04:002010-04-22T16:32:45.958-04:00One other reason why the Nats don't draw is th...One other reason why the Nats don't draw is that it is a wasteland around the ballpark. There are no bars or restaurants within walking distance of Nats Park! When it comes to eating and drinking you are at the mercy of the Lerners who can charge exorbinant prices because they have no competition. With the commercial real estate market in the shape it is, it will take years before there is any nightlife in the Nats Park neighborhood like the development we saw in Chinatown after the Verizon Center was built. At least part of the attraction of going to a Caps game is to get there early and go to dinner with your kids or hang out with friends at a bar after the game. At a Nats game you walk from your car or Metro, go to the game, and walk back to your car or the Metro. There is nothing else to draw you to the neighborhood other than an awful team.yazzy1956https://www.blogger.com/profile/17547480988367313462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-20866999597236164862010-04-22T16:30:41.659-04:002010-04-22T16:30:41.659-04:00Dave, you said exactly what I was trying to say (&...Dave, you said exactly what I was trying to say (& said it while I was typing).Arlington BigFishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-71905262675234330302010-04-22T16:29:05.749-04:002010-04-22T16:29:05.749-04:00The Nats are, for all intents & purposes, a NE...The Nats are, for all intents & purposes, a NEW product, as several people have pointed out. It's going to take many years for us to get back in the groove after 33 years in the wilderness (to mix metaphors). The various experiences we're having at the stadium are still at a BASEBALL PARK. I'll keep coming to see the games, & I'll keep buying my 20-game package because it's BASEBALL.Arlington BigFishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-43336900995267570532010-04-22T16:28:16.196-04:002010-04-22T16:28:16.196-04:00@CoverageisLacking: "DC is not the only 4-spo...@CoverageisLacking: "DC is not the only 4-sport town in the country. There are plenty of others (and these others actually discovered more than 2 years ago that their hockey team existed). Their baseball teams draw fine."<br /><br />CiL, you keep saying this as if Washington's baseball situation is comparable to that of other four-sport towns. Why are you still making this argument?<br /><br />DC was without baseball for one entire generation, 33 years. The people who remember baseball in this town are aging Baby Boomers or older. NOBODY who was born later than about 1965 can possibly have a connection to DC's baseball past. These people have no sense of supporting a DC baseball team, and the team given them to support so far has been really bad.<br /><br />This is essentially different from the experience in other four-sport towns, such as Philadelphia, where there has been a continuous tradition of the sport over decades. You simply cannot compare apples and oranges.<br /><br />I grant that the Kasten-Lerner group have done a crappy and insulting job of developing the market here, but I truly do not think that has very much to do with this week's atrocious attendance. Several years of losing baseball have caused that. Not EVEN idiotic Presidents' Races or loudmouthed PA announcers are basically at fault here. Just bad baseball. <br /><br />The quality of baseball seems to be changing, and the growth in attendance will follow, almost as certainly as day follows night.<br /><br />@Tcostant, I live in Northern Virginia. I work close to where a Dulles ballpark would have been built. I am extremely glad the ballpark was not built there, and I like going into DC to the games. It's an urban experience. A ballpark in the Dulles area would have made my daily commute a more miserable thing than it already is. Northern Virginians don't mind going into town for cultural events, and baseball is a cultural event.<br /><br />Really. Everybody needs to relax. This thread looks like some of the breathless and panicked attendance threads from the Ballpark Guys forum back before the stadium opened.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07243007019646325480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-57195467420148752052010-04-22T16:20:59.440-04:002010-04-22T16:20:59.440-04:00Tcostant makes an excellent point regarding consum...Tcostant makes an excellent point regarding consumer behavior. We all remember the 4 P's of marketing (Product, Promotion, Price, and Place). (Some add a 5th P, but 4 will do for this example.)<br /><br />He is making the marketer's point regarding the importance of PLACE in marketing. While some bloggers on this (extremely high quality) discussion want to say we're 26th of 30 in attendance and there's NO excuse for it because ALL the other cities have the same dynamics (4 sports teams, etc) we do, Tcostant is making the superior counterpoint:<br /><br />Study after study shows that the DC area is NOT like other MLB cities in terms of commuting times and distances. It is FAR worse. The dad who lives in Stafford and works in McLean or Arlington or Falls Church must make a MONSTER commute to get to work, a MONSTER commute to go home and get the family for a game, a MONSTER commute back into DC for the game itself, and then a long (but not monstrous) commute from Nats Park at 10:30 that night.<br /><br />It's not realistic to expect people with families to do this very often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-51094531058185194812010-04-22T16:01:51.031-04:002010-04-22T16:01:51.031-04:00As I read these comments, I honestly wonder if D.C...As I read these comments, I honestly wonder if D.C. getting the team instead of Nortern Virginia actual has hurt attendance. I saw a survey resently (can't remember where) that stated double (yes twice as many on a percentage basis) the amount of Northern Virginia residents considered the Nats their favorite local team ve D.C. Residents.<br /><br />Off the top of my head, something like 14% vs. 7%.<br /><br />I think a large percentage of the fan base attending games comes from VA; I sure know I would attend a lot more weekday games if the team was at Dulles rather then the Navy Yard.<br /><br />Just a thought.Tcostantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-12449187577687314912010-04-22T15:57:20.901-04:002010-04-22T15:57:20.901-04:00Anon 3:15 wrote: "Name one pro team in any sp...Anon 3:15 wrote: "Name one pro team in any sport that stinks but yet its ownership has been able to market it so as to achieve long-term high attendance numbers in spite of that."<br /><br />Doesn't that describe the Washington Redskins?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-19452929014226278832010-04-22T15:40:19.642-04:002010-04-22T15:40:19.642-04:00Anon 3:15 wrote:
"Name one pro team in any s...Anon 3:15 wrote:<br /><br />"Name one pro team in any sport that stinks but yet its ownership has been able to market it so as to achieve long-term high attendance numbers in spite of that."<br /><br />This question kind of shocked me, honestly. Isn't "The Washington Redskins" that team?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-60584265687921784622010-04-22T15:33:44.049-04:002010-04-22T15:33:44.049-04:00"The reason for the Nats poor attendance is t..."The reason for the Nats poor attendance is that the team has stunk, plain and simple. What the organization has or has not done has had no noticeable effect on the attendance at all."<br /><br />Incorrect. There are many, many, examples of season ticket holders who have canceled their plans because of what they perceived to be poor treatment by the organization, and because of dissatisfaction with the gameday ballpark experience. Many others indicated a similar intention to cancel after the Opening Day Philly fiasco. These decisions were not a consequence of the team's play on the field. I have had personal conversations with many such people, along with the countless comments along these lines that we see on this and other blogs and message boards.<br /><br />And I can easily name a pro team that fits your example to a "T"--the New York Rangers. That was without even thinking about it. I'm sure I could come up with others if I gave it some thought. You seem to have a very fatalistic view of things, (not)anon: the Lerners did nothing to squander goodwill, they have no control over attendance, etc. Stan may share your view, but that doesn't validate it.CoverageisLackinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15289871778773312200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-27177345111888146392010-04-22T15:15:07.319-04:002010-04-22T15:15:07.319-04:00The reasons for the Nats' poor attendance, pla...<i>The reasons for the Nats' poor attendance, plain and simple, are that the team stinks, and the organization has otherwise done a horrible job marketing the team.</i><br /><br />Name one pro team in any sport that stinks but yet its ownership has been able to market it so as to achieve long-term high attendance numbers in spite of that. The reason for the Nats poor attendance is that the team has stunk, plain and simple. What the organization has or has not done has had no noticeable effect on the attendance <i>at all</i>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-62417163959046127792010-04-22T15:06:00.499-04:002010-04-22T15:06:00.499-04:00"The Caps hurt the Nats any week both teams a..."The Caps hurt the Nats any week both teams are home,even when they don't play on the same dates."<br /><br />DC is not the only 4-sport town in the country. There are plenty of others (and these others actually discovered more than 2 years ago that their hockey team existed). Their baseball teams draw fine.<br /><br />Assuming that there is overlap among the game-goers in a manner that materially hurts attendance numbers is incredibly simplistic. The reasons for the Nats' poor attendance, plain and simple, are that the team stinks, and the organization has otherwise done a horrible job marketing the team. If the team was good, coupled with a good marketing effort and gameday experience, then the Caps and Wizards could both be in the playoffs and the Nats would nonetheless draw extremely well. There are plenty of sports fans in DC to support good teams, even when they are playing at the same time.CoverageisLackinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15289871778773312200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-16665884262850850982010-04-22T14:55:25.204-04:002010-04-22T14:55:25.204-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.CoverageisLackinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15289871778773312200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-57992049118583320762010-04-22T14:21:58.957-04:002010-04-22T14:21:58.957-04:00A lot of bad news here regarding the Caps, but her...A lot of bad news here regarding the Caps, but here's another bit of bad news:<br /><br />The Caps hurt the Nats' attendance any week both teams are home, EVEN IF THEY DON'T PLAY ON THE SAME NIGHTS.<br /><br />A family with tickets to the Caps on Mon and Fri and the Nats on Tues and Thurs of a given week are NOT going to go to all four games. Their house would fall apart--anyone with a family knows this.<br /><br />Given this choice--a screaming arena full of Caps fans and an almost-certain win, versus a chilly April night outdoors to watch the losingest team in baseball in the last two years--people are going to the two Caps games and leaving the Nats tickets on the kitchen table.<br /><br />The Caps hurt the Nats any week both teams are home,even when they don't play on the same dates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-33719717413475613972010-04-22T14:20:37.920-04:002010-04-22T14:20:37.920-04:00I've always been under the impression that the...I've always been under the impression that the announced attendance is the paid attendance. So the RCR and other freebie tickets are not counted. Nor does it matter if there were only 5,000 people actually in the park because many STHs stayed home.Section 222https://www.blogger.com/profile/17106128453333996193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-65932355756139393982010-04-22T14:17:52.176-04:002010-04-22T14:17:52.176-04:00Meridian's point about baseball now being a se...Meridian's point about baseball now being a season ticket-based sport underscores the huge impact that the that poor play of the last few seasons has had on the team's finances. For the sake of argument, let's say there are now 10,000 STHs. That means they start with a guaranteed season paid attendance of only 810,000. Increase the STH base to 25,000 and the annual attendance jumps to a minimum of 2.03 million. Each additional 5,000 STHs means 405,000 more paid tickets purchased. Seems to me that it's a lot easier to make (or keep) 5,000 die hard fans willing to buy season tickets than it is to get 405,000 new bodies out to the park. But you absolutely cannot do it with 100- loss teams and penny wise, pound foolish decisions on ballpark atmosphere.Section 222https://www.blogger.com/profile/17106128453333996193noreply@blogger.com