tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post4431181328977820098..comments2024-02-15T05:42:18.307-05:00Comments on Nats Insider: Could new CBA delay Harper's debut?Mark Zuckermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13525315258889435961noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-5136209806545173782011-11-24T07:26:18.970-05:002011-11-24T07:26:18.970-05:00Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Took the kids bowlin...Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Took the kids bowling yesterday and missed all the fun. <br /><br />Anon - love your music taste but I'll take my investment advice elsewhere. But as I always say, these debates are much more fun to have than whether we'll finish last or 2cnd to last!<br /><br />Happy Thanksgiving everyone.Natsliferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00197332797667766552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-91241947009834355022011-11-24T06:53:16.711-05:002011-11-24T06:53:16.711-05:00On another note:
Wilson went 3 for 5 last evening ...On another note:<br />Wilson went 3 for 5 last evening for his Venezuelan squad. I'll bet that will give his confidence a boost.Slidellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-23113732240633919092011-11-24T00:23:07.164-05:002011-11-24T00:23:07.164-05:00Projected Arbitration salaries for Nats players wh...Projected Arbitration salaries for Nats players who might be decent trade bait for TB:<br /><br />John Lannan - $4.9MM<br />Michael Morse - $3.9MM<br />Tom Gorzelanny - $2.8MM<br />Tyler Clippard - $1.7MM<br />Jesus Flores - $800K<br /><br />Plus Ian Desmond: $442K<br /><br />Plus prospects of interest on the 40-man:<br />Derek Norris, Tyler Moore, Brad Peacock, Chris Marerro, Steve Lombardozzi, Jhonatan Solano, Tom Milone, Ross Detwiler.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-12107518448885840102011-11-24T00:16:58.964-05:002011-11-24T00:16:58.964-05:00MLBTR projected salaries for 2 potential TB Rays n...MLBTR projected salaries for 2 potential TB Rays non-tender players:<br /><br /><br />David Price - $7.8MM<br />B.J. Upton - $7.6MM<br /><br />Current salary for James Shields:<br />2012 ends a 5 year $17.5 million contract:<br /> $3.3 million/yr. <br /><br /><br />As far as Upton Bowden risked a lot more on Austin Kearns.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-60781477985023053402011-11-23T23:58:47.701-05:002011-11-23T23:58:47.701-05:00Hmmm well so far all the pundits (Mark, Kilgore, C...Hmmm well so far all the pundits (Mark, Kilgore, Chase Hughes, etc) were all completely wrong about Grady Sizemore.<br /><br />I suspect they are going to be wrong about Harper.<br /><br />And as for lead-off? There still is a guy named Steve Lombardozzi who just won a minor league gold glove. And Davey Johnson is just the sort of manager to try him in that spot ... just as he tried a guy named Alex Cora (at shortstop in Dodger Blue land) raising the ire of then GM Frank Milone. Will he raise Rizzo's ire? Seems highly unlikely since Rizzo is very big on manager's who can finish the development of his prized prospects. That was one of the criteria which he mentioned when asked about on his thoughts as far as re-upping Jim Riggleman. <br /><br />So, Rizzo now appears to now have a perfect fit at manager given his thinking and where the club is currently. Sure progress has been made in the farm system ... but it is very top heavy with top draft picks ... there isn't much in the way of real depth. But, rare exceptions have appeared in the form of Derrek Norris, Bradley Peacock and Steve Lombardozzi. Who better than Johnson to finish their development while working with the 'top-heavy' prospects? <br /><br />Would Johnson put Lombardozzi at the top of the batting order? You bet he would. But he wouldn't be his only option and he might be a part of his "B" squad.<br /><br />So, do the CF AND lead-off spot intersect? Does the CF have to lead off? No. Not with Lombardozzi and perhaps Anthony Rendon in the wings. Plus there's still Desmond.<br /><br />In the end it sure looks to me like Natsjack's suspicions about a pending trade with Tampa Bay might end up being the real story. If the Nats could manage this they might solve almost all of their 2011 lineup issues while opening up critical spots for close-to-the-majors prospects. It sure seems like both teams could benefit from each other and clearly the Nats would have to surrender more than most would like to get what they need ... making TB, already the wealthiest franchise prospect-wise, even wealthier. Yet not financially having a very small market philosophy and payroll. <br /><br />Strange twist that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-51180169623972393512011-11-23T20:57:24.570-05:002011-11-23T20:57:24.570-05:00I'm not suggesting that's the single most ...<i>I'm not suggesting that's the single most important variable they'll consider. And I'm not suggesting that they will necessarily decide he can't handle such constant attention. </i><br /><br />And like Johnson's bullpen: bullpen A and bullpen B he has a lineup A and lineup B and probably relies on both in critical situations. I think that's what got Davey in trouble with Malone in LA. He likes to use the young raw talent on his "B" squad. Develop them by letting them make mistakes and then coaching them on how to correct them. I know it sounds like the minors as Rizzo made a point of making in 2010. But Boz seems to think Davey believes he is the very best at developing young talent and creating winning rosters. It works well with a professional scout like Rizzo who is undeniable better at finding the talent. But just as important? <br /><br />Player Development. At some point who is better at developing budding superstars like Strasburg, Harper, and soon Anthony Rendon in the final stages of their training? Is it the baseball intellect and former AllStar Johnson? Or the minor league staff the Nationals currently have? <br /><br />If Harper is on the "B" squad and doesn't start or only starts 50% of the time? While learning the fine points of fielding? Does it matter if its in the majors or Syracuse? He's under the microscope in either locale. The only advantage Harrisburg or SYR MIGHT have IMO given your concern might be that Rendon would be there too to take some of that spotlight off the guy's gaffes? Rendon is the more polished player and a superior fielder by all accounts. <br /><br />I think its fine if Davey decides to bring him up to train himself with the help of the coaching staff that he and Rizzo both selected. All (except Porter) Nats organization men. This is Davey. He isn't going to dub Harper Ted Williams bat him third and expect him to lead the team to the playoffs. <br /><br />I think Harper will ride the pine more than enough and be asked to watch, to learn, and then get tested by men who know their stuff. <br /><br />That's why Davey like's big hairy chested guys on the bench next to him. Like Carlos Quentin. He isn't going to allow the whole season rely on Harper if he is busy finishing his development. I think he is too smart for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-66666423108998973512011-11-23T17:34:32.379-05:002011-11-23T17:34:32.379-05:00Hey Eugene, how old are you anyway, that you'r...Hey Eugene, how old are you anyway, that you're calling a 19 year old who can't even grow a decent mustache "Mister"?Feel Woodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-81680033568327428682011-11-23T16:32:49.200-05:002011-11-23T16:32:49.200-05:00NatsJack in Florida said...
And 26 for double hea...NatsJack in Florida said... <br />And 26 for double headers. <br /><br />November 23, 2011 3:20 PM <br />_____________________________<br /><br />Good point, "like" the spot pitcher rule!Gonatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-32504323943729527472011-11-23T16:09:13.157-05:002011-11-23T16:09:13.157-05:00Anon @ 2:39 p.m.,
I do, in fact, read Mr. Boswell...Anon @ 2:39 p.m.,<br /><br />I do, in fact, read Mr. Boswell's chats, including the one you cite. And I agree with you that Mr. Johnson will have a significant say (perhaps the most significant say) in where Mr. Harper's locker is located come April 2011. Mr. Johnson does, indeed, have much more influence and impact than most field managers are allowed these days by their GMs. But for a player like Mr. Harper, Mr. Johnson won't make the decision by himself.<br /><br />Having read those chats -- and lots of other stories, columns, blog posts, quotes, and a fair bit of baseball history over the years -- I think that Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rizzo will consider all those various factors I previously mentioned in making a series of decisions (not least whether Mr. Harper starts the season in the majors or the minors). I don't think making that point that is patronizing to anyone, but perhaps I'm mistaken. If so, I humbly apologize to whomever it was that I may have patronized.<br /><br />Where I differ with you is on the question of expectations. Mr. Harper is not Mr. Desmond. Mr. Harper is, in effect, 'the chosen one' and will carry with him huge expectations of performance, even stardom. Some folks will cut him some slack, but many people won't. He will be under much more of a microscope than any recent rookie, including Strasburg. And I think both Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rizzo will factor that into their overall calculation, i.e., how will Mr. Harper handle those expectations, that hype, and the 24/7 attention. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that's the single most important variable they'll consider. And I'm not suggesting that they will necessarily decide he can't handle such constant attention. But I think it's an important element within the broader, multi-variable equation.<br /><br />Finally, to answer your personal question to me: no, I don't know Mr. Johnson personally, although I've been following his career as both a player and a manager since he was with the O's in the late 1960s. I have tremendous respect for him and for the career he's had. And it's precisely because of that respect that I give him the credit for making -- along with Mr. Rizzo -- a considered decision about Mr. Harper's future.Eugene in Oregonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-32058504287617986712011-11-23T15:20:02.772-05:002011-11-23T15:20:02.772-05:00And 26 for double headers.And 26 for double headers.NatsJack in Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-58139802705122879012011-11-23T15:13:18.743-05:002011-11-23T15:13:18.743-05:00Anonymous said...
Harper isn't going to be a...Anonymous said... <br /> Harper isn't going to be a star ... he is going to be a raw rookie-in-training if he succeeds in making the 24-man roster. <br /><br />November 23, 2011 2:45 PM <br />_________________________________<br /><br />Did the new CBA eliminate a player? I thought it was the 25-man roster.Gonatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-11475427221768397802011-11-23T15:05:31.216-05:002011-11-23T15:05:31.216-05:00Here's a point that, I think, has only been ad...Here's a point that, I think, has only been addressed obliquely: many of us here, believe that Our Nats are in the hunt for the WC this year, and hope to compete for the Whole Thing, in '13. From that perspective, wouldn't we like to see Harper take as many of his lumps as possible, in '12, the better to hit the ground running, in '13? I'm thinking, whatever tack has Him as ready as possible, opening day '13, is how we should fluff our sails, no? A Sept. callup would barely get his feet wet, and having him up from the git, this coming spring, while prolly painful, for the first couple of months, could yield a Rakin' Baby Boppo, by years end.... The Kid seems to be able to play up to whatever level you put him at...UnkyDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10427401050130317607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-9506011053238638022011-11-23T15:00:44.142-05:002011-11-23T15:00:44.142-05:00No argument from me. The way things were done in 1...No argument from me. The way things were done in 1986 aren't quite the same way they are done in 2012. Even Davey acknowledges that.NatsJack in Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-84887303411935959092011-11-23T14:45:08.306-05:002011-11-23T14:45:08.306-05:00And Natsjack? Johnson doesn't "trump"...And Natsjack? Johnson doesn't "trump" Rizzo. What he does is convince Rizzo that he is better at developing young talent than anyone else in the Nats system. Johnson believes he is better than AAA Syracuse.<br /><br />Are you going to argue with that? Probably.<br /><br />But, I doubt that Rizzo will, I sure as heck wouldn't. <br /><br />Johnson is going to convince Rizzo by telling him that he has done this before. And you know what Natsjack HE HAS. Harper isn't going to be a star ... he is going to be a raw rookie-in-training if he succeeds in making the 24-man roster.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-11949236165788671682011-11-23T14:40:37.250-05:002011-11-23T14:40:37.250-05:00Eugene, I guess those that expect a meteoric rise ...Eugene, I guess those that expect a meteoric rise to super stardom from Bryce Harper may be disappointed if he isn't a Fred Lynn in his Rookie season and doesn't win more MVPs than Barry Bonds over his career.<br /><br />I am hoping for the words used above, an "impact" player for the Nats. Anything above that is icing on the cake, like a perennial All Star and MVP.Gonatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-5810162033752111202011-11-23T14:39:25.142-05:002011-11-23T14:39:25.142-05:00Eugene in Oregon:
And I think Mr. Rizzo and Mr. J...Eugene in Oregon:<br /><br /><i>And I think Mr. Rizzo and Mr. Johnston both understand that and will handle things accordingly. </i> Kind of patronizing? <br /><br />I don't think anyone expects Harper to be a star immediately. But you appear to not read Tom Boswell's Chat commentaries which appear weekly on Monday. Tom Boswell has known Davey Johnson for a few decades now. How long have you known him?<br /><br />IN any case YES Harper will make a ton of mistakes just like Desmond did (remember?). BUT Johnson wants to be the only manager to further Harper's education at this point. Johnson thinks he is the smartest man in baseball, and he is likely very close that pinnacle if he is not. Johnson firmly believes he is a better at developing top prospects for winning teams.<br /><br />What does that mean? Think about it. Johnson called up all of those players from AAA in September without asking Rizzo. They are going to work together but Johnson is going to determine where Bryce Harper needs to be. Boswell appears to believethat Johnson has already determined that its right near him ... in many cases it may be IN THE DUGOUT. Its likely why they have interest in players like Carlos Quentin. Harper might not play a full year starting. Just like AAA except Johnson, Porter, etc. will be the mentors. <br /><br />I personally suspect the same will happen to Anthony Rendon if he proves to be as good as Scott Boras believes he is. <br /><br />Point is: AAA may now be a talent pool of backup players in case of injury. The next level after AA is tutelage with Davey and his coaches in the majors for the better young prospects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-22668582734512444452011-11-23T14:38:06.465-05:002011-11-23T14:38:06.465-05:00And for those who think Davey Johnson will trump R...And for those who think Davey Johnson will trump Rizzo... forget it. It will be an organizational decision with several more than just those two involved.NatsJack in Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-7482369090743193182011-11-23T14:35:25.402-05:002011-11-23T14:35:25.402-05:00I'll say it one more time because I've hea...I'll say it one more time because I've heard the man say it. Bob Boone - "BRYCE WILL SHOW US WHEN HE IS READY".<br /><br />And, so far, all he's shown is that he needs more work. Mike Rizzo - "WE WANT HIM TO EXPERIENCE SUCCESS AT EACH LEVEL."NatsJack in Floridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-27665753945538697522011-11-23T14:22:59.242-05:002011-11-23T14:22:59.242-05:00Steve M. @ 11: 18 wrote: "Nobody expects him...Steve M. @ 11: 18 wrote: "Nobody expects him [Harper] to come in and be an All Star on day 1."<br /><br />Actually, if you read through this thread, a number of knowledgable folks do indeed expect stardom from day one. Words and expressions like 'hitting genius' and 'Rookie of the Year' are being thrown around by folks who follow baseball closely. Imagine the crowd who only know that Harper was on a Sports Illustrated cover boy before he was 18, was drafted number one after lighting up (junior) college pitchers, and hits prodigious home runs that circulated as YouTube must-sees. Many of us will be willing to cut a rookie some slack, but much of baseball fandom -- both in DC and throughout the country -- will expect all-star-level production from day one.<br /><br />And I think Mr. Rizzo and Mr. Johnston both understand that and will handle things accordingly. Which, in my mind, means calling him up when he (Mr. Harper) is ready to perform at a very high level, not bringing him to Washington from Spring Training just to fill seats or (possibly, no guarantees) win an extra three or four games over the first half of the season. There will be a number of variables in their equation, including how the team is doing as of June 1, what sort of finish seems realistic both with and without Mr. Harper, how Mr. Harper is doing offensively, how Mr. Harper is progressing defensively, how Mr. Harper is maturing, and -- of course -- the Super Two-related questions of arbitration and free agency eligibility. That will be a very complicated calculation, which I suspect will be much harder to make with Mr. Harper than it was with Mr. Strasburg (particularly the maturity -- i.e., is he ready to handle the pressure? -- aspect. And I know that lots of folks who follow and post on this blog will be debating all those variables for at least another six months, if not more. Happy Thanksgiving!Eugene in Oregonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-23235124083951105052011-11-23T14:18:27.987-05:002011-11-23T14:18:27.987-05:00Hmmm maybe we should ask how it affects Harper on ...Hmmm maybe we should ask how it affects Harper on hangingsliders ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-25833447272389907032011-11-23T14:17:58.945-05:002011-11-23T14:17:58.945-05:00As to the question of him becoming a free agent on...As to the question of him becoming a free agent one year earlier if he starts with the club on opening day, this is a factor. However, one would hope that if he lives up to even a good percentage of his hype and potential, that the Nat would sign him to a long-term contract before the end of 2017.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-39648662368475199632011-11-23T14:15:08.529-05:002011-11-23T14:15:08.529-05:00As I understand it, this issue of Super 2 status s...As I understand it, this issue of Super 2 status should not affect Bryce Harper at all, because he's already under contract for 2015. Arbitration should only affect a player that does not have a contract for that year -- point being that Harper has already agreed to play in 2015 for $1M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-8546341124086610682011-11-23T14:01:46.289-05:002011-11-23T14:01:46.289-05:00I do think Bryce is gone when his control years ar...<i>I do think Bryce is gone when his control years are up, so that extra year is very important.</i><br /><br />If Rizzo, the Lerners, and Boras are still involved I sincerely doubt it. By then he could be one of the leaders on a World Series winning franchise. The first in DC in 4 score and 10 years? You could point at Boston, or even the Cubbies but the difference is they fielded winners they just didn't go all the way. The NL and AL Nats typically fielded pathetic last place teams. Hell, a play was created based on the concept of the Nats perennial losing! Damn Yankees. <br /><br />So, would it be be bigger than Boston and the Cubbies? It just might be a whole lot bigger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-66490072077783045882011-11-23T14:00:12.650-05:002011-11-23T14:00:12.650-05:00Gonat- I hear you. There is logic there, but it ...Gonat- I hear you. There is logic there, but it still isn't persuasive to me. Here are some spring training ERAs for 2011/2010:<br />Josh Johnson - 4.95/5.82<br />Verlander - 0.96/5.48<br />Carpenter - 5.19/5.40<br />Doc - 0.42/4.00<br /><br />My only point is that players use ST for different purposes, so I don't think it is a reliable data set for deciding whether Harper is ready. Maybe a bullpen role, or utility infielder, or occasionally a fight between two guys that are pretty evenly matched. Ok, ST can decide that. But whether the best position prospect in a while is ready for the pro's I think should be decided on his performance at other levels. Harrisburg and the AFL are great, but in his case and given his age, I think seeing him do it at AA or AAA would be necessary (for me). I am also not sure why we would need to rush him.<br /><br />And I am indifferent if he repeats AA or AAA. With the way that AAA has evolved, I see them as roughly comparable.Wallynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442809928829881676.post-66266338002383045942011-11-23T13:52:49.073-05:002011-11-23T13:52:49.073-05:00John C said:
My objections to Upton, however, sta...John C said:<br /><br /><i>My objections to Upton, however, stand :)</i><br /><br /><br />That's because you aren't looking at the big picture; apparently Natsjack has. A deal that brings both Shields and Upton to the Nats is almost tailor-made for the Nats. The only caveat is Upton doesn't have a left-handed bat.<br /><br />Perhaps you are right about Upton? Rizzo doesn't think so, not sure what Davey Johnson thinks be interesting to find out. But, it doesn't matter. Upton would give the team time to develop potential CF prospects from within. Although the new CBA could clearly hamper those efforts as it even extends to International Signings. If the Nats could sign the Cuban and develop 2 - 3 prospects like Michael Taylor ... <br /><br />The Nats still need time to develop their farm system especially where good fielding outfielders are concerned. Upton could buy them plenty of time or become a semi-permanent solution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com